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Scooter01
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CO To Increase Flights To Norway?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:43 am

Sales and Marketing manager Tom Grundstad of Continental Airlines in Norway, is quoted in today's Aftenposten newspaper to say that CO would like to increase todays capacity to Oslo, starting next summer.
They would either double it with a second daily flight with another 757 or get a larger 767 with 68 more seats than today's 757 that has 175 seats. The reason is that todays capacity is almost full with over 80% average seatsales on the once-daily flight, compared to when they started this route in 2004 they only flew 3 times weekly.

-Can't wait to see a 777 here!

Scooter01  smile 
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CXfirst
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RE: CO To Increase Flights To Norway?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:49 am

If they go with the 767, will that be the only scheduled wide body? I know a charter airline (can't remember which, think it was mychoice or something) runs a couple A330 to OSL.

-CXfirst
 
PavlovsDog
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RE: CO To Increase Flights To Norway?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 10:59 am

Personally I think a 762 service between IAH and DXB with a brief stop in Oslo would be a gold mine. I imagine a lot of the passengers flying from OSL to EWR are continuing on to IAH or other cities that could also be easily reached from Houston.
 
Someone83
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RE: CO To Increase Flights To Norway?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:26 am



Quoting PavlovsDog (Reply 2):
Personally I think a 762 service between IAH and DXB with a brief stop in Oslo would be a gold mine. I imagine a lot of the passengers flying from OSL to EWR are continuing on to IAH or other cities that could also be easily reached from Houston.

Why would you choose that route when you can fly directly IAH-DXB with Emirates? Remember IAH-DXP is a lot of high yielding business traffic who doesn't care about too much the price
 
brendows
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RE: CO To Increase Flights To Norway?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:32 am



Quoting CXfirst (Reply 1):
If they go with the 767, will that be the only scheduled wide body?

PK flies twice weekly from OSL to CPH (where it continues to Pakistan.) This flight is normally operated with a 772 IIRC (and a A310 before that part of the fleet was banned in Europe.)
 
PavlovsDog
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RE: CO To Increase Flights To Norway?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:39 am

-CO has a massive frequent flyer base in Houston.

-The most direct path between IAH and DXB (according to great circle mapper flies directly over OSL with a 0.0% divergence. Hence if there was a short enough ground time in OSL the flight wouldn't have to take that much longer than the non-stop.

- CO doesn't have any 772-LR's so they'd have a hard time flying that non-stop consistently even if they wanted to. It sounds like CO is interested though.

- Emirates has 10 abreast in economy on their tripple 7's whereas most airlines have 9. That's really cramped for a 15-17 hour flight.
 
vadheim
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RE: CO To Increase Flights To Norway?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 12:33 pm

 
brissedk
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RE: CO To Increase Flights To Norway?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:47 pm

That would be awesome, and really underline CO's commitment in Scandinavia. I'm hoping for either 767 to IAH or double daily to EWR with 757.

But, the story would have more credibility if it came from Houston instead of the Norwegian marketing people (working in marketing myself, I think it is fair to say that we "spin" the info in the preferred direction).

Still hoping though...  crossfingers 

Regards,
BJ
Frequent flyer based in CPH - mostly heading to: OSL, HEL, KEF, FAE and EWR
 
Someone83
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RE: CO To Increase Flights To Norway?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 4:50 pm

OSL is among the most profitable 757 routes for CO
 
DYflyer
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RE: CO To Increase Flights To Norway?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 7:47 pm



Quoting Scooter01 (Thread starter):
The reason is that todays capacity is almost full with over 80% average seatsales on the once-daily flight

Think about what it would be like if they did some active marketing here in Norway. Also a lot of demand for cargo on this route.
Life is like a book. If you don't travel, you only read one page.
 
brissedk
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RE: CO To Increase Flights To Norway?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:31 pm



Quoting Someone83 (Reply 8):
OSL is among the most profitable 757 routes for CO

Do you have a source for that claim? Not questioning it, but maybe that source could give the same info regarding ARN and CPH. Would be a nice comparison.

Regards,
BJ
Frequent flyer based in CPH - mostly heading to: OSL, HEL, KEF, FAE and EWR
 
Someone83
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RE: CO To Increase Flights To Norway?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:32 pm

Quoting BrisseDK (Reply 10):
Quoting Someone83 (Reply 8):
OSL is among the most profitable 757 routes for CO

Do you have a source for that claim? Not questioning it, but maybe that source could give the same info regarding ARN and CPH. Would be a nice comparison.

Yes, but it's not public info

Also remember CO has a monopoly on non-stop OSL-NYC and can charge much higher prices as people will still fly them, and evem CO almost have no marketing in Oslo does the the plane still fill up

[Edited 2007-12-05 12:34:22]

[Edited 2007-12-05 12:40:47]
 
COEI2007
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RE: CO To Increase Flights To Norway?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:37 pm



Quoting Scooter01 (Thread starter):
Sales and Marketing manager Tom Grundstad of Continental Airlines in Norway, is quoted in today's Aftenposten newspaper to say that CO would like to increase todays capacity to Oslo, starting next summer.
They would either double it with a second daily flight with another 757 or get a larger 767 with 68 more seats than today's 757 that has 175 seats. The reason is that todays capacity is almost full with over 80% average seatsales on the once-daily flight, compared to when they started this route in 2004 they only flew 3 times weekly.

-Can't wait to see a 777 here!

I didnt think CO started the route at only 3 times per week? I doubt a 767 will appear in Oslo any time soon. I'd say it could go to 10 weekly first with a 752
 
brissedk
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RE: CO To Increase Flights To Norway?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:43 pm



Quoting Someone83 (Reply 11):
CO has a monopoly on non-stop OSL-NYC

And really, that is airline heaven Big grin

Any hint at the ARN and CPH flights? You might just mark them with  bigthumbsup  or  grumpy 

Regards,
BJ
Frequent flyer based in CPH - mostly heading to: OSL, HEL, KEF, FAE and EWR
 
Someone83
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RE: CO To Increase Flights To Norway?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:46 pm

Quoting COEI2007 (Reply 12):
I didnt think CO started the route at only 3 times per week? I doubt a 767 will appear in Oslo any time soon. I'd say it could go to 10 weekly first with a 752

Thats correct. CO started with daily in the summer and 3 weekly in the winter in June 2004. But they have increased the winter flight with 1 extra weekly each year and i would be surprised if we see them with daily flights next winter. But I also believe that it's more likely with 10-12 weekly 757 than a 767 in the near future due to CO widebody capacity limitations although CO need more business class capacity into Oslo as the BizFirst section is almost always fully booked from OSL

[Edited 2007-12-05 12:52:14]
 
Someone83
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RE: CO To Increase Flights To Norway?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:49 pm



Quoting BrisseDK (Reply 13):
Any hint at the ARN and CPH flights? You might just mark them with bigthumbsup or grumpy

Don't know. Only been told about OSL. But remember that CO for the first time has a higher frequency at OSL than CPH.

But as I mentioned. As it is the only direct NYC flight, CO has no problem filling 16 business class seats with high yielding pax going between OSL and NYC
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: CO To Increase Flights To Norway?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:49 pm

All three Scandinavian cities are performing well. Would love to see more service to any one of them, if not all.
You can't cure stupid
 
brissedk
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RE: CO To Increase Flights To Norway?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:13 pm



Quoting Someone83 (Reply 15):
But remember that CO for the first time has a higher frequency at OSL than CPH.

It's not a competition you know. But if it were, CPH would win, hands down Big grin

Will be interesting to monitor DL. They have done very well in CPH and is now starting ARN. Wouldn't be surprised if we saw them in OSL at some point. There's also the never-ending-rumors about JFK-CPH, but I'm not holding my breath for that one.

The odd one missing out is UA. They haven't realised that there's a party (a profitable one) going on in Scandinavia. Why don't they look our way? I know SK serves their primary gateways in IAD, ORD and SFO (soon anyway) from CPH leaving only DEN and LAX without Scandinavian presence. But why don't they show interest in either OSL or ARN from IAD?

Regards,
BJ
Frequent flyer based in CPH - mostly heading to: OSL, HEL, KEF, FAE and EWR
 
Someone83
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RE: CO To Increase Flights To Norway?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:21 pm



Quoting BrisseDK (Reply 17):
It's not a competition you know. But if it were, CPH would win, hands down Big grin

I'm living in Copenhagen so I'll win anyway  Silly

Quoting BrisseDK (Reply 17):
The odd one missing out is UA. They haven't realised that there's a party (a profitable one) going on in Scandinavia. Why don't they look our way?

I would guess that there's two reasons for this. One is due to their fleet capacity (No extra 763 to use on a new route) and the other is their co-operation with SK and I doubt that UA will begin flights to Scandinavia unless SK asks them as most/all of SASs USA flight are UA-codeshare and they seems to have a good cooperation in difference from SK-US, where SK refused to feed US's ARN-PHL flight
 
diesel33
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RE: CO To Increase Flights To Norway?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:45 pm

I am not sure if anyone can answer this but what is CO's reputation in Norway or even in Scandinavia?

I am interested to know...
 
brissedk
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RE: CO To Increase Flights To Norway?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 10:01 pm

Quoting Diesel33 (Reply 19):
CO's reputation in Norway or even in Scandinavia?

It's ok. Haven't heard any complaints about the 757 or service on-board. Personally I prefer SK, but that is just the viking blood in me.

My only experience with CO was BUF-CLE and CLE-BWI. Great flights, nice crew and I really liked CLE as connecting airport. Very smooth!

Quoting Someone83 (Reply 18):
I'm living in Copenhagen so I'll win anyway

... and we have a winner 

Regards,
BJ

[Edited 2007-12-05 14:04:01]

[Edited 2007-12-05 14:04:50]
Frequent flyer based in CPH - mostly heading to: OSL, HEL, KEF, FAE and EWR
 
fun2fly
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RE: CO To Increase Flights To Norway?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:22 pm

What about CO to HEL? Rumored for years...
 
N1120A
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RE: CO To Increase Flights To Norway?

Thu Dec 06, 2007 12:13 am



Quoting FUN2FLY (Reply 21):
What about CO to HEL? Rumored for years...

EWR-HEL is over 100nm longer than CO's longest 757 flight, which is EWR-TXL. Further, it is 30nm longer than EWR-PRG, which was rumored for years but CO determined was not going to work from an operational standpoint, even with winglets.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
2travel2know
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RE: CO To Increase Flights To Norway?

Thu Dec 06, 2007 1:25 am

IAH-OSL will be very insteresting even if thrice weekly, but then an IAH-GLA would also make some sense for the oil business people. And how about IAH-OSL-Baku, Azerbajian ?? Yes, a B767 thrice a week IAH-OSL, in OSL the B757 from EWR instead of flying back to EWR flies to Baku and the 767 which arrived from IAH does OSL-EWR-OSL that day..
If there are new CO IAH-Europe flights I would like to see, it would be those I mention before and IAH-MAD.
In a very near future, CO most likely would add some extra EWR flights to OSL, ARN and maybe even CPH, don't know if up to twice daily, but at least 10 x week.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
worldtraveler
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RE: CO To Increase Flights To Norway?

Thu Dec 06, 2007 2:20 am

hate to rain on your parade but other airlines are managing to connect the oil business in Houston to other oil cities... DL started IAH-ATL-DXB service (same flight number) and still has that routing (change of aircraft) even w/ EK's new flight. DL also has IAH-ATL-LOS service with no foreign competition - and given that DL is also starting JFK-LOS, it would be very hard for CO to start LOS service and do well given they will be limited to IAH and everything west of it unless they can break into a market from the eastern US which will be owned by DL. UA started service to Kuwait and is supposedly doing well on it also. So, CO doesn't have any service to the middle east outside of Israel, eastern Europe (excluding ATH which isn't an oil destination), and hasn't bothered to start any service to Africa.

The one-stop proposals only work if there is as much local traffic beyond Europe as there is from the US to Europe and a US carrier has the right to carry that traffic. Baku, like many of the remote oil destinations, is a very small market and is served by low density, high service narrowbodies from western Europe or more standard configured narrowbodies from eastern Europe. Either way, those aren't the kind of markets CO is likely to break into.
 
777gk
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RE: CO To Increase Flights To Norway?

Thu Dec 06, 2007 2:49 am



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 24):


hate to rain on your parade but other airlines are managing to connect the oil business in Houston to other oil cities... DL started IAH-ATL-DXB service (same flight number) and still has that routing (change of aircraft) even w/ EK's new flight. DL also has IAH-ATL-LOS service with no foreign competition - and given that DL is also starting JFK-LOS, it would be very hard for CO to start LOS service and do well given they will be limited to IAH and everything west of it unless they can break into a market from the eastern US which will be owned by DL. UA started service to Kuwait and is supposedly doing well on it also. So, CO doesn't have any service to the middle east outside of Israel, eastern Europe (excluding ATH which isn't an oil destination), and hasn't bothered to start any service to Africa.

The 'same flight number' business is pure marketing BS, I imagine CO running a pair of 737s as CO84/85 ATL-EWR-TLV-EWR-ATL means absolutely nothing to the average Atlanta customer, and hardly puts a dent in DL152/153. The same will be true when (not if) CO starts its own IAH-DXB service.

CO is almost assured of success in any oil market it enters from IAH. Most Houston-based companies have contracts with Continental already in place, and once CO comes into a market with a competitive offering from IAH, a significant proportion of the business will most certainly go to the hometown airline, I can assure you. Once the 787s are on property, and new routes such as IAH-DXB and African service are initiated, you can bet CO will go well out of its way to ensure the lion's share of IAH-originating premium traffic finds its way to the Proud Bird with the Golden Tail. It's only a matter of time. Fortunately for Delta, they will be first to market and definitely will attract a very strong, loyal following at all ports of call, so it looks to be a win-win for everybody.

As far as routes out of EWR, CO will make them work based on the strength of the EWR hub, reputation, and the extensive corporate contracts CO has garnered over the years in the NYC market.

The presence of DL in any market most definitely does not shut competition out.
 
worldtraveler
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RE: CO To Increase Flights To Norway?

Thu Dec 06, 2007 3:08 am

actually using the same flight number is used by many carriers and it causes the flight to show up first on a travel agent's list of flights in a computer system. But the point is that CO doesn't even serve the routes DL is originating at IAH.

I never said CO was shut out of any market but people here assume that CO will be able to make routes from IAH to any oil patch in the world work. Given that IAH is geographically very poorly positioned to carry traffic to most of the US, CO would have to fill a very high percentage of seats on those flights with local traffic - and there just isn't that much local traffic from Houston. ATL and NYC are much better hubs for carrying connecting traffic plus they have decent local markets. Flying nonstop from Texas to remote oil patch cities is just not as likely as people think it is here.

I fully recognize what CO has done at EWR and acknowledge that they have built the most comprehensive hub in the NYC area. However, NYC is a much smaller percentage of the international operations for both AA and DL, who are both larger international carriers than CO. Further, in the past 2 years DL has managed to identify and start service to a dozen new cities which CO hasn't bothered to serve. So, while CO has all of the major cities covered, DL has added or will add service to more unique cities than CO has, which gives DL the ability to go after at least as many corporate contracts because, with the exception of Asia, DL serves most of the same "core" cities as CO does; CO has more service to smaller cities in northern Europe while DL has the advantage to southern and Eastern Europe as well as the Middle East and Africa.
 
Max Q
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RE: CO To Increase Flights To Norway?

Thu Dec 06, 2007 5:28 am

Enjoy flying to any of our Scandinavian cities.

Great places with smashing people.

Off the topic but has anyone seen anything in the way of new cities for CO next year ?

Starting to suspect the new 737's will see a lot of the older ones off permanently and little if no expansion in '08..
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
n123vk
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RE: CO To Increase Flights To Norway?

Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:24 am

The IAH-OSL route is a really good point though!
I live in Houston and everytime I go home to Norway, there's a really big crowd of Norwegians going the exact same way, whether it's to Oslo or Stavanger. Same when you arrive in Houston there are SOOO many Norwegian passports in the line it's impossible to count them. I don't understand how SAS haven't thought about this, but if Continental did, that'd be amazing!! The commute to SVG would be a whole lot easier and more comfortable than on KLM!!

Go CO!!
 
MAH4546
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RE: CO To Increase Flights To Norway?

Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:34 am



Quoting N123vk (Reply 28):
The IAH-OSL route is a really good point though!
I live in Houston and everytime I go home to Norway, there's a really big crowd of Norwegians going the exact same way, whether it's to Oslo or Stavanger. Same when you arrive in Houston there are SOOO many Norwegian passports in the line it's impossible to count them. I don't understand how SAS haven't thought about this, but if Continental did, that'd be amazing!! The commute to SVG would be a whole lot easier and more comfortable than on KLM!!

CO doesn't even fly from Houston to Frankfurt, Madrid, or Rome. Houston-Oslo on CO (or SAS) is not likely. There is a decent amount of oil traffic on the route, but I'm sure CO is happy taking passengers via Newark. The route is too thin.
a.
 
worldtraveler
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RE: CO To Increase Flights To Norway?

Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:36 pm

quote=MaverickM11,reply=35]consider how much effect it has on the high yield frequent business customer with frequent flier miles.[/quote]

And those kind of frequent flyers usually fly under a corporate contract or some other type of negotiated agreement which is swayed them to a particular carrier anyway.

No one said having a through flight number was the only or even best solution to get passengers on a flight but it is one, it costs next to nothing to implement, and has the potential to sway some passengers. Using the right combinations only makes sense.

Also, based on US DOT data (which doesn’t necessarily capture foreign carrier passenger bookings), there were approx 24 passengers per day between IAH and DXB in 2Q07, the largest local market reported. However, ATL is the 2nd largest O&D at 13 passengers per day. Further, about half of the traffic is to destinations in the Midwest and NE which CO would not carry over IAH. About 1/3 is to destinations in the western US which CO could compete reasonably well for. So, will CO ever start DXB service? Maybe, but it would make far more sense for them to do it from EWR where they could serve the entire nation rather than go up against EK and be only able to serve about 40% of the entire DXB-US market.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 31):
CO's "Unique" destinations.

That long list of destinations in Japan is meaningless to Americans because CO Mike and all of the regional Asia routes are not connected to the rest of CO’s network and aren’t intended to be.

No one said CO doesn’t have unique destinations whether in Canada or the South Pacific… in fact, the unique routes that matter due to the size are in Europe… the beauty of what CO did at EWR was take a bunch of western European cities that had little or no scheduled transatlantic service and add them using the 757. I have never denied that CO saw an opportunity and took it. On the other hand, most of CO’s widebody international routes are to more traditional markets.

DL has done the same thing with most of its recent international routes, esp. out of JFK. However, rather than try to compete with AA and CO along with some foreign flags, DL is using the 6000 mile range of the 767 to open new routes that CO can’t open now because they don’t have enough 762ERs or 777s, the two airplanes that could challenge DL’s expansion.

Despite what you and a lot of other people believe, DL’s expansion is not a threat to CO’s current operation because they have largely expanded to places CO doesn’t fly to now – Eastern Europe, the Arab Middle East, and Africa. DL certainly does make it harder for CO to get into those markets once the 787 arrives if CO intended to expand there but for now CO and DL are largely pursuing different types of markets to grow. The markets that DL is adding to northern Europe are primarily being served by DL from ATL where they have extraordinary connectivity and do very well compared to the strong foreign flags and to CO in EWR.
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: CO To Increase Flights To Norway?

Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:44 pm



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 26):
ATL and NYC are much better hubs for carrying connecting traffic plus they have decent local markets.

ATL is a better positioned hub, but the local market is just as big (if not bigger) from Houston than Atlanta.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 29):
CO doesn't even fly from Houston to Frankfurt, Madrid, or Rome. Houston-Oslo on CO (or SAS) is not likely. There is a decent amount of oil traffic on the route, but I'm sure CO is happy taking passengers via Newark. The route is too thin.

I cant see IAH-OSL, but CO should really consider adding more IAH-Europe routes (MAD and FRA at least).
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
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STT757
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RE: CO To Increase Flights To Norway?

Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:40 am



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 36):
So, will CO ever start DXB service? Maybe, but it would make far more sense for them to do it from EWR where they could serve the entire nation rather than go up against EK and be only able to serve about 40% of the entire DXB-US market.

I don't know, from the moment EK announced HAM-JFK people predicting CO would drop EWR-HAM, well today we find out EK is the one dropping out of the HAM-EWR market. DXB-IAH is alot different than HAM-NYC, there's plenty of demand for travel on this route. Enough for CO and EK to make significant profits, I would look for CO to launch DXB and LOS from both EWR and IAH.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 36):
DL is using the 6000 mile range of the 767 to open new routes that CO can't open now because they don't have enough 762ERs or 777s, the two airplanes that could challenge DL's expansion.

CO has orders for 60 787s (25 firm, 35 options), that gives CO a significant advantage going forward.

Jeff has already mentioned Chennai, Bangalore and Hyderabad. We can expect many more such "unique" destinations to be launched by CO when the 787s arrive.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
N1120A
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RE: CO To Increase Flights To Norway?

Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:43 am



Quoting FlyHoss (Reply 32):

Is an aux tank STC available for the 757?

Not that I know of
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: CO To Increase Flights To Norway?

Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:30 am



Quoting STT757 (Reply 38):
DXB-IAH is alot different than HAM-NYC, there's plenty of demand for travel on this route. Enough for CO and EK to make significant profits, I would look for CO to launch DXB and LOS from both EWR and IAH.

What about adding a tagg-on to South Africa from LOS? Maybe if CO flies both EWR and IAH to LOS, maybe that could be a logical solution. The Houston and NYC-South Africa markets are very large.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
floorrunner
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RE: CO To Increase Flights To Norway?

Fri Dec 07, 2007 2:06 am



Quoting CityAirline (Reply 34):
So, shouldn't CO consider GOT? I really do think they could fill up a 3-4/weekly 752 here, even in the winter. Alot of business going on between the GOT region and the US (GOT is the hometown of major industries like Volvo just to name one example). I mean, it's only 16 biz seats to fill up 3-4 times a week, and I really don't see that as a difficulty.
And the 159 seats would easily be filled with tourists going over there, and with the connection possibilities in EWR they should attract alot of people.
I think it's a question of when, not if, an airline will open up GOT-US.

This could be a potential goldmine. Besides the business connections, a lot of Swedish Americans come from this area.
 
worldtraveler
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RE: CO To Increase Flights To Norway?

Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:07 am



Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 37):
ATL is a better positioned hub, but the local market is just as big (if not bigger) from Houston than Atlanta.

But there is NO international flight operated by a US carrier that exists solely on local traffic. So, while IAH may be a larger market (and in total, I'm not sure I agree with you - Atlanta clearly has larger populations of a number of European groups while Houston probably has larger Latin communities) you have to gain alot more connections west or south of Houston to make up for what you can't carry in the eastern part of the US. And I'll remind you that DL has service to nearly all of the cities west and south of Houston that would naturally connect.

Others here have pointed out that IAH isn't as good of a hub for transatlantic service (and the middle east and Africa is transatlantic) as alot of people think as evidenced by the lack of service. DL's ATL hub is second in destinations only to CO's EWR hub.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 38):
I don't know, from the moment EK announced HAM-JFK people predicting CO would drop EWR-HAM, well today we find out EK is the one dropping out of the HAM-EWR market.

It makes far less sense for EK to operate a one-stop to its hub using a large widebody than it does for CO to operate a 757.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 38):
Jeff has already mentioned Chennai, Bangalore and Hyderabad.

Those are the markets that CO probably will deploy its 787s on but I'm not sure the India market will be near as lucrative given all the capacity the Indian carriers are throwing into the market, an aweful lot of which will be to/from NYC. We'll see what happens but I wouldn't get real excited about adding a bunch of service to India.
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: CO To Increase Flights To Norway?

Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:39 am



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 42):
So, while IAH may be a larger market (and in total, I'm not sure I agree with you - Atlanta clearly has larger populations of a number of European groups while Houston probably has larger Latin communities)

Top U.S.-Europe O&D's:
1. JFK 17.9% share $664 avg fare
2. EWR 8.3% $642
3. LAX 6.9% $748
4. ORD 5.7% $693
5. BOS 5.5% $638
6. SFO 5.4% $760
7. MIA 4.4% $612
8. IAD 3.8% $782
9. MCO 3.8% $523
10. LAS 2.4% $604
11. ATL 2.2% $740
12. IAH 2.1% $1213
13. PHL 1.8% $765
14. SEA 1.7% $857
15. DTW 1.5% $812
16. DFW 1.5% $911

The above is a list of the largest markets to Europe from various cities in the USA. The list was compiled by Jetlanta in a previous thread. As you can see ATL and IAH are very close in terms of local traffic to Europe with ATL being slightly larger. I can also tell you that IAH has a larger market to Asia and Latin America on a local baisis than does ATL. No one is going to argue that IAH is in a poor location for a hub. ATL is clearly a better hub locale, I was just speaking about local market.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
2travel2know
Posts: 2236
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:05 am

RE: CO To Increase Flights To Norway?

Fri Dec 07, 2007 5:20 am



Quoting Floorrunner (Reply 41):
This could be a potential goldmine. Besides the business connections, a lot of Swedish Americans come from this area.

SK flew DC10 once per week GOT-JFK via the current Oslo airport.
GOT might not be as populated as BRS or BFS but surely could support a 4 x week CO EWR (or a bit less desirable DL JFK) flight. However, I expect to see CO B757 in NCL, AGP or TRN before GOT.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
codc10
Posts: 2931
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

RE: CO To Increase Flights To Norway?

Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:22 am



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 42):
Those are the markets that CO probably will deploy its 787s on but I'm not sure the India market will be near as lucrative given all the capacity the Indian carriers are throwing into the market, an aweful lot of which will be to/from NYC. We'll see what happens but I wouldn't get real excited about adding a bunch of service to India.

Yet, if Delta were to announce JFK-HYD/BGL/MAA, you would most certainly be VERY excited over 'a bunch of service to India.' It's widely known that Delta would love to add more service to the Subcontinent, but they are constrained by -gasp- an unsuitable fleet for the mission (isn't that the same reason CO 'hasn't bothered' to enter Eastern Europe/Africa?), at least until some of their token 772LR orders come in. Meanwhile, CO will enter these markets starting around 2010, nonstop from EWR, with the 787, and more than likely make a killing because their service does not require a European stopover, which most of the capacity on Indian carriers will for the foreseeable future.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 43):

Very interesting figures. Obviously CO will be able to do some European expansion out of IAH, given the fact that most of the airports in its immediate vicinity on the list (ATL,PHL, DTW, IAD) support much larger transatlantic operations quite profitably. I suppose the lack of capacity is why IAH has the highest average fare as well, which is an advantage CO probably would like to protect as best it can.
 
jetsetter629
Posts: 496
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 6:07 pm

RE: CO To Increase Flights To Norway?

Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:04 am

Well now that this topic has fallen off topic, I'll try to steer it back  duck 

I'll be flying CO on Dec 29 EWR-CPH and on Jan 11 OSL-EWR. I bought these tickets a few months ago and got a great fare around $550. Now when I check the seats, they are both about 90% filled, with EWR-CPH running about 95%. I guess there is a high demand, even in the dead of winter...

Any chance of US operating to CPH or OSL? I know their ARN service is successful with business pax!

Rob
 
B747forever
Posts: 13861
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 9:50 pm

RE: CO To Increase Flights To Norway?

Fri Dec 07, 2007 8:51 am

This is really great.

Hope for the 762 instead for double 757s.

Do anyone know about CO´s service to ARN???
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
cityairline
Posts: 672
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 12:29 am

RE: CO To Increase Flights To Norway?

Fri Dec 07, 2007 11:54 am



Quoting B747forever (Reply 47):
Hope for the 762 instead for double 757s.

If they would send the 767, it would be the 764, not the 762. The 762 doesn't have more seats than the 752.

//Alex
I don't fly to live, I live to fly...
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26416
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: CO To Increase Flights To Norway?

Fri Dec 07, 2007 11:57 am



Quoting CODC10 (Reply 45):
I suppose the lack of capacity is why IAH has the highest average fare as well, which is an advantage CO probably would like to protect as best it can.

While capacity plays some role, it probably has the highest fare because of oil traffic.
a.
 
Someone83
Posts: 5004
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

RE: CO To Increase Flights To Norway?

Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:45 pm



Quoting CityAirline (Reply 48):
Quoting B747forever (Reply 47):
Hope for the 762 instead for double 757s.

If they would send the 767, it would be the 764, not the 762. The 762 doesn't have more seats than the 752.

But it has more business class seats and higher cargo capacity.....two things the OSL-EWR route also needs
 
cityairline
Posts: 672
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 12:29 am

RE: CO To Increase Flights To Norway?

Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:14 pm



Quoting Someone83 (Reply 50):
But it has more business class seats and higher cargo capacity.....two things the OSL-EWR route also needs

Yes you're right about that, but if they really want to add seats (in both classes) then I guess the 764 would be the better option...
I don't fly to live, I live to fly...
 
Someone83
Posts: 5004
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

RE: CO To Increase Flights To Norway?

Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:22 pm



Quoting CityAirline (Reply 51):
Yes you're right about that, but if they really want to add seats (in both classes) then I guess the 764 would be the better option...

I agree, but I still see 762 as an upgrade as it would would further increase CO's yield on this route
 
B747forever
Posts: 13861
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 9:50 pm

RE: CO To Increase Flights To Norway?

Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:55 pm



Quoting CityAirline (Reply 48):
If they would send the 767, it would be the 764, not the 762.

Wow, if CO send their 764s to OSL, that you would be great. Then OSL will get the first 764 in Scandinavia, right???
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
bagoldex
Posts: 1027
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:33 pm

RE: CO To Increase Flights To Norway?

Fri Dec 07, 2007 9:36 pm

A little fare per mile correlation here, it doesn't mean everything. Look at Miami for example, that's supposed to be a super-duper ultra high yield destination and it figures well into the lower half.

Rank Market Avg. Fare Distance-SNN Fare/Mile
1. IAH $1213 4466 .27160
2. PHL $765 3175 .24094
3. DTW $812 3401 .23875
4. IAD $782 3307 .23646
5. BOS $638 2895 .22037
6. JFK $664 3081 .21551
7. DFW $911 4386 .20770
8. EWR $642 3095 .20743
9. ATL $740 3841 .20307
10. ORD $693 3590 .19303
11. SEA $857 4501 .19040
12. MIA $612 4058 .15081
13. SFO $760 5048 .15055
14. LAX $748 5122 .14603
15. MCO $523 3967 .13183
16. LAS $604 4892 .12346
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26416
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: CO To Increase Flights To Norway?

Fri Dec 07, 2007 9:45 pm

Quoting BAGoldEx (Reply 54):
Look at Miami for example, that's supposed to be a super-duper ultra high yield destination and it figures well into the lower half.


You can deduce very little from that chart on trans-Atlantic yields for non-stop flights, because it shows total O&D for connecting and non-stop passengers. Passengers pay a premium for non-stops, more in some markets than others.

Miami yields are great to southern Europe (Italy/Spain/France) and the UK. Yields to northern Europe are anything but impressive. It's all tourist traffic, and you have LTU and Martinair Holland in the game depressing the fares farther down.

LA yields look pretty weak, but to the UK and Germany, they are awesome. Same with Boston - great to the traditional markets and hubs, but when you look at markets like Italy and Portugal, not so hot anymore.

[Edited 2007-12-07 13:52:31]
a.

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