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BWE320
Topic Author
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:31 am

LH To Angola?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 10:28 am

Germany's ministre of economy announces that LH will start flights to angola next year, one flight weekly.(http://www.thetimes.co.za/News/Article.aspx?id=650386)
 
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Flying Belgian
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Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 12:45 am

RE: LH To Angola?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 10:39 am

It's credible.

LH and KLM both applied for a weekly frequency. That's the maximum they can obtain.

I'm curious to know which metal they'll use (A346, B744 ?)

Angola is a VERY lucrative market.
Life is great at 41.000 feet...
 
JoKeR
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Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2004 12:34 pm

RE: LH To Angola?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:02 am



Quoting Flying Belgian (Reply 1):
That's the maximum they can obtain.

I believe so, LAD is one of the highest yielding routes in Africa and is extremely protected.

LH will probably be deploying a 744.
 
stylo777
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RE: LH To Angola?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:15 am

they need an aircraft with a lot of premium seats as there is almost no ecomony class traffic on these routes, only business travellers.

I assume the aircraft will remain on the ground for several hours that the crew can complete their off-duty time and fly back the bird to Germany. BA did the same (10hrs at LAD).
 
columba
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RE: LH To Angola?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:21 am



Quoting Flying Belgian (Reply 1):
I'm curious to know which metal they'll use (A346, B744 ?)

A330 or A340-300 are more likely for a new route.
Air Berlin - gone but not forgotten
 
airbazar
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RE: LH To Angola?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 12:03 pm



Quoting Stylo777 (Reply 3):
they need an aircraft with a lot of premium seats as there is almost no ecomony class traffic on these routes, only business travellers.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. TP flies a daily A340 to LAD with very high load factors both up top and in the belly. Granted, Portugal probably has the biggest Angolan community outside of Angola but a lot of those immigrants have, over the years, made their way North.
 
slz396
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RE: LH To Angola?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 12:08 pm



Quoting Stylo777 (Reply 3):
I assume the aircraft will remain on the ground for several hours that the crew can complete their off-duty time and fly back the bird to Germany. BA did the same (10hrs at LAD).

Most probably so, yes, although there are other solutions too.

SN doesn't night-stop in LAD, they fly back to FIH where they change crew, but then that's easy given SN has a daily FIH. I don't think LH has some destination in the neighbourhood which it could combine with LAD, does it?
 
ZRH
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RE: LH To Angola?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 12:29 pm



Quoting Slz396 (Reply 6):
I don't think LH has some destination in the neighbourhood which it could combine with LAD, does it?

No, but Swiss has. I don't know if they could coordinate somehow.
 
CV990
Posts: 4224
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RE: LH To Angola?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 12:36 pm

Hi!

Quoting Stylo777 (Reply 3):
they need an aircraft with a lot of premium seats as there is almost no ecomony class traffic on these routes, only business travellers.

I don't think so, like AirBazar TP is flying now daily to LAD and with the DT situation TP is having more and more demand for this route! Regarding the type of equipment I really think LH should use the A340 the same one that TP is using!

Quoting ZRH (Reply 7):
No, but Swiss has. I don't know if they could coordinate somehow.

That would be nice!!! My father worked in LAD airport between 1969 and 1970 and there was a regular Swissair flight with the DC-8...but it was a cargo flight!!!
Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
slz396
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RE: LH To Angola?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 12:47 pm



Quoting ZRH (Reply 7):
No, but Swiss has. I don't know if they could coordinate somehow.

That could be a solution, although I doubt it.

Also, the question then becomes: who is going to operate the return flight from LAD to FRA? A Swiss plane and crew ferried in from elsewhere? That could possibly be a bridge too far for Angola, which is known to be very though on who it accepts in LAD.

Especially in Africa, you do not want to be pioneering into unknown legal territory over traffic and freedoms rights. If you are given traffic rights for X flights between A and B, you better operate them yourself, with a plane featuring your name.
Theories like: 'yes, but LX and LH really are one and the same airline-group nowadays' are better kept home, because next thing you know, another country uses it as excuse to cut frequencies for either LX or LH in an effort to help their own airline.

BTW- seems like LAD is THE place to go now?

KL wants to start serving LAD too (probably on instigation of AF as a way to get a hidden second frequency) and SN is setting up an airline in FIH in a joint-venture with HBA, amongst others to bypass the restriction of having only a single weekly flight to LAD as well. (FIH-LAD would run several times a week, and connect to the daily BRU-FIH)

I wonder what all the added capacity will do to the yield on the route?
 
SKA380
Posts: 141
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RE: LH To Angola?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:14 pm

won't i be cheaper to fly with double crew? letting one crew rest on the way down, and fly the return leg?
 
buslover
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RE: LH To Angola?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:30 pm

DLH will operate FRA - LAD in the evening, arrive in the morning, stay for minimum crew rest at LAD and return LAD - FRA in the evening.
The best airplane is the one you fly
 
CV990
Posts: 4224
Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 3:49 am

RE: LH To Angola?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:55 pm

Hi1

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 9):
SN is setting up an airline in FIH in a joint-venture with HBA, amongst others to bypass the restriction of having only a single weekly flight to LAD as well. (FIH-LAD would run several times a week, and connect to the daily BRU-FIH)

Well if that happens SN will need to have at least 2 flights daily to FIH!!! When I was leaving FIH last June both SN and AF flights were completely packed and it looked that mostly were congolese people flying!
Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
md90fan
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RE: LH To Angola?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 2:45 pm



Quoting Slz396 (Reply 9):
BTW- seems like LAD is THE place to go now?

Well, Angola's economy is expected to grow by 24% this year, that could have something to do with it.
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
airbazar
Posts: 10369
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: LH To Angola?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 2:55 pm



Quoting SKA380 (Reply 10):
won't i be cheaper to fly with double crew? letting one crew rest on the way down, and fly the return leg?

That may not be needed as both legs of the journey are overnight and the plane has to sit idle for over 12 hours anyway, giving the crew enough time to go to a hotel and rest for the return let.
By the way, this is a little off topic but TP is moving their African sales department from Lisbon to Luanda as they attempt to capitalize on the growing African business which for TP is now only second to Europe and has relegated Brazil to 3rd place as far as growth is concerned. So it's no suprise that more airlines are wanting to enter this market.
 
twolz2rn
Posts: 395
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2005 10:03 am

RE: LH To Angola?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:02 pm

Would the Europe - LAD route be as profitable for airlines if the Angolan government hadn't put the rule on only having one weekly flight?

I have always wanted to go to Angola but it is too damned expensive!!
 
Joost
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Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 8:27 pm

RE: LH To Angola?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 7:19 pm



Quoting Slz396 (Reply 9):
KL wants to start serving LAD too (probably on instigation of AF as a way to get a hidden second frequency)

AF and KL could do well by operating their flights on different days (for example, Monday and Thursday), so they can easily rotate crew and basically offer a double frequency.
 
kissK
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:23 pm

RE: LH To Angola?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 7:47 pm

Gulf carriers are not there yet !!
 
stylo777
Posts: 2809
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: LH To Angola?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:33 pm



Quoting KissK (Reply 17):
Gulf carriers are not there yet !!

a lot of carriers aren't there yet 'cause it is governement restricet, but a bunch of airlines want to send their metal to LAD
 
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hummingbird
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Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:45 pm

RE: LH To Angola?

Thu Dec 06, 2007 2:20 am

Is it possible for LH to deploy a Privatair aircraft on this route?
The sky is the limit, but never stop grasping until you get the glory cloud..
 
N1120A
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Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: LH To Angola?

Thu Dec 06, 2007 2:27 am



Quoting HummingBird (Reply 19):
Is it possible for LH to deploy a Privatair aircraft on this route?

Probably, but why? If they can easily sell a larger aircraft, then they should
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss

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