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fllcontinental
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Rumour: PTVs On All CO Aircraft

Sat Dec 08, 2007 1:45 am

I just heard through the grapevine that CO is planning on adding PTVs to all aircraft aside from the 733 and 735. Can anybody confirm or deny this for me. But please confirm it, it would be nice to have PTVs on my EWR-LAX flight.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Rumour: PTVs On All CO Aircraft

Sat Dec 08, 2007 1:46 am

hint hint ... LiveTV  Wink
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
spyderz
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RE: Rumour: PTVs On All CO Aircraft

Sat Dec 08, 2007 1:51 am

I doubt it would be on all aircraft since the 733s and 735s are due to leave the fleet in the near-term. The return on such an investment would be unwise from a financial standpoint.
 
jetblueguy22
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RE: Rumour: PTVs On All CO Aircraft

Sat Dec 08, 2007 1:52 am

That would be nice. I have a feeling we are going to be seeing stuff like this a lot over the next couple years on other airlines.
Blue
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avek00
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RE: Rumour: PTVs On All CO Aircraft

Sat Dec 08, 2007 1:53 am

I think the rumor is overbroad -- CO would be foolish to install such a system on every a/c type. That said, something like an expansion of the 757 AVOD to all 738s could make some sense.
Live life to the fullest.
 
ikramerica
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RE: Rumour: PTVs On All CO Aircraft

Sat Dec 08, 2007 2:12 am

I fully expect this to happen, but it will take a long time to finish up.

739ERs should all come with AVOD and begin arriving next month. 752s are all being converted by the end of next year. The new 738s should start coming with AVOD as the 739ERs do, from what I understand.

Then it's a matter of retrofitting the remaining 737NGs, of which there are many. The most recent 738s have been arriving with the panasonic AVOD system installed but only running the overhead monitors, sort of a lightweight futureproofing option. From what I understand, some older 737NGs are already being refitted with the newer Panasonic system (still to run the overhead screens only) as they are having the 2 extra F seats installed.

The real question is how long it will take for the 73Gs, the older 738s, 753s and the 739s to get new seats and AVOD hooked up. Part of me thinks only the F section will end up getting it once CO really sees how expensive it is, but who knows?

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 1):
hint hint ... LiveTV

there is less value in livetv than there is in AVOD. ask anyone who has a tivo/dvr, and ask them how much livetv they actually watch anymore. the odds are they will say little to none...  Wink
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
Mir
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RE: Rumour: PTVs On All CO Aircraft

Sat Dec 08, 2007 2:28 am

Now if only they'd go to a single-prong headphone plug instead of the two-prong so that I can use my own headset.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
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asuflyer05
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RE: Rumour: PTVs On All CO Aircraft

Sat Dec 08, 2007 2:31 am



Quoting Fllcontinental (Thread starter):
I just heard through the grapevine that CO is planning on adding PTVs to all aircraft aside from the 733 and 735

That would be disappointing.
 
flyingcat
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RE: Rumour: PTVs On All CO Aircraft

Sat Dec 08, 2007 3:59 am



Quoting Laxintl (Reply 1):

Live tv is owned by B6, specifically so that competitors cannot buy the system. F9 only has it because they signed a contract before B6 bought the company outright.
 
MCOflyer
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RE: Rumour: PTVs On All CO Aircraft

Sat Dec 08, 2007 4:15 am

Is Y or just BF getting the avoid?

Hunter
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mcamargo
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RE: Rumour: PTVs On All CO Aircraft

Sat Dec 08, 2007 4:24 am



Quoting Mir (Reply 6):
Now if only they'd go to a single-prong headphone plug instead of the two-prong so that I can use my own headset.

I use my iPod headphones all the time on various CO 737NG aircraft, and I always get stereo sound...

However, I plugged it in to a 733 and I only got one ear piece working.

Does it vary by aircraft type?
I live for the day mainline returns to BRO...
 
deltal1011man
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RE: Rumour: PTVs On All CO Aircraft

Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:13 am



Quoting Mcamargo (Reply 10):
Does it vary by aircraft type?

on Delta i just took the little piece off the ear phones and put it on mine(it just comes off not like i rewired it or anything)
 
PiedmontINT
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RE: Rumour: PTVs On All CO Aircraft

Sat Dec 08, 2007 9:15 am

Quoting Fllcontinental (Thread starter):
CO is planning on adding PTVs to all aircraft aside from the 733 and 735



Quoting Spyderz (Reply 2):
I doubt it would be on all aircraft since the 733s and 735s are due to leave the fleet in the near-term.

 

Anyway, I think this is good news as B6 has set the bar for domestic IFE and other carriers are playing catchup. DL already has a start with the former Song a/c and is expanding their PTVs to the other long haul domestic fleet and now CO will be outfitting their a/c with PTVs. I think if the other legacies are going to stay competitive they will be forced to update their a/c as well.

Pax dont care how fuel efficient an a/c is or what engines it has or what color it is or if they are on a 737 or an A380. What the passenger sees is how comfortable the seat is, how clean the cabin is, how old the cabin is, and what can entertain them in the cabin. The competition from the LCC's isnt going away folks.. When a pax could take a flight from XXX to YYY for $250 with a nice comfortable seat with a PTV that includes a library of videos and TV shows to chose from or pay $245 to ride on a dingy and dirty a/c with uncomfortable and/or broken seats with the opprotunity to stare at the back of the guy's head in front of them for the next few hours, which will that pax choose? It's not rocket science people...

edit to fix spelling

[Edited 2007-12-08 01:18:16]

[Edited 2007-12-08 01:18:49]
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Rumour: PTVs On All CO Aircraft

Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:37 am



Quoting Flyingcat (Reply 8):
Live tv is owned by B6, specifically so that competitors cannot buy the system. F9 only has it because they signed a contract before B6 bought the company outright.

Wait and see. B6 is actively marketing LiveTV to other airlines, including competing US majors.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
BR715-A1-30
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RE: Rumour: PTVs On All CO Aircraft

Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:43 am



Quoting Flyingcat (Reply 8):
Live tv is owned by B6, specifically so that competitors cannot buy the system. F9 only has it because they signed a contract before B6 bought the company outright.



Quoting Laxintl (Reply 13):
Wait and see. B6 is actively marketing LiveTV to other airlines, including competing US majors.

That's correct... B6 bought LiveTV NOT to prevent from others from having the system, but in order to sell the system to other airlines and make a killing doing it.
Puhdiddle
 
FFlyer
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RE: Rumour: PTVs On All CO Aircraft

Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:45 am



Quoting Laxintl (Reply 13):
Quoting Flyingcat (Reply 8):
Live tv is owned by B6, specifically so that competitors cannot buy the system. F9 only has it because they signed a contract before B6 bought the company outright.

Wait and see. B6 is actively marketing LiveTV to other airlines, including competing US majors.

Isn't B6 live tv contracted from DirecTV? Is the airborne system really owned by B6?

DL has live TV from Dish Network.
 
lincoln
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RE: Rumour: PTVs On All CO Aircraft

Sat Dec 08, 2007 3:23 pm



Quoting Mir (Reply 6):
Now if only they'd go to a single-prong headphone plug instead of the two-prong so that I can use my own headset.

-Mir

There are relatively inexpensive adaptors out there...

For example: http://www.amazon.com/o/ASIN/B00083L...ubscriptionId=1WVW5FBX1DJ5VJ76EDG2 (no experiance w/ that particular product)

DL's headsets used to include one of these, so I just kept one separately.
CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
 
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seabosdca
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RE: Rumour: PTVs On All CO Aircraft

Sat Dec 08, 2007 3:31 pm



Quoting PiedmontINT (Reply 12):
When a pax could take a flight from XXX to YYY for $250 with a nice comfortable seat with a PTV that includes a library of videos and TV shows to chose from or pay $245 to ride on a dingy and dirty a/c with uncomfortable and/or broken seats with the opprotunity to stare at the back of the guy's head in front of them for the next few hours, which will that pax choose? It's not rocket science people...

Sadly, the market has shown time and again that pax will choose THE CHEAPEST fare. No ifs, ands, or buts. Every attempt to charge more, even just a few dollars more, for service has failed.

That fact alone explains most of what you need to know about air travel in 2007.
 
InTheSky74
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RE: Rumour: PTVs On All CO Aircraft

Sat Dec 08, 2007 3:49 pm

The only difference is that when B6 (LiveTV) markets to other airlines, they are limited to only 24 channels of TV. B6 will always ensure that they have the most channels.
 
Mir
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RE: Rumour: PTVs On All CO Aircraft

Sat Dec 08, 2007 3:54 pm



Quoting Seabosdca (Reply 17):
Quoting PiedmontINT (Reply 12):
When a pax could take a flight from XXX to YYY for $250 with a nice comfortable seat with a PTV that includes a library of videos and TV shows to chose from or pay $245 to ride on a dingy and dirty a/c with uncomfortable and/or broken seats with the opprotunity to stare at the back of the guy's head in front of them for the next few hours, which will that pax choose? It's not rocket science people...

Sadly, the market has shown time and again that pax will choose THE CHEAPEST fare. No ifs, ands, or buts.

If a pax has never flown before, they will go for the cheapest fare. But if a pax has had experiences with both good and bad airlines, they may be inclined to pay the $5-10 extra to fly with the good airline. B6 is rarely the absolute cheapest fare out of JFK, but they have a lot of brand loyalty.

Quoting FFlyer (Reply 15):
Isn't B6 live tv contracted from DirecTV? Is the airborne system really owned by B6?

LiveTV is a subsidiary of B6.
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
jetblueguy22
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RE: Rumour: PTVs On All CO Aircraft

Sat Dec 08, 2007 4:11 pm



Quoting Mir (Reply 19):
B6 is rarely the absolute cheapest fare out of JFK, but they have a lot of brand loyalty.

Whenever I fly out of JFK they are always the cheapest. I know passengers go for the cheapest fare but they don't always pick the cheapest. Many know about problems with airlines and go with ones they hear the least about.
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Rumour: PTVs On All CO Aircraft

Sat Dec 08, 2007 7:33 pm



Quoting Mir (Reply 19):
If a pax has never flown before, they will go for the cheapest fare. But if a pax has had experiences with both good and bad airlines, they may be inclined to pay the $5-10 extra to fly with the good airline. B6 is rarely the absolute cheapest fare out of JFK, but they have a lot of brand loyalty.

Bingo. Even as a poor medical student, I recall choosing BA to fly DTW-LHR after I had awful experiences with NW on the DTW-LGW route. BA was $30 more, but I justified it as "worth saving myself the headache." I had a PTV on a 777 with decent meals, on-time service, and I was treated professionally and respectfully. Indeed, the expense was more than justified.

So while some pax always go for the cheapest ticket, pax who fly a bit more regularly will be guided by their experiences and will pay a small premium for some perks.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
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seabosdca
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RE: Rumour: PTVs On All CO Aircraft

Sat Dec 08, 2007 7:59 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 21):
So while some pax always go for the cheapest ticket, pax who fly a bit more regularly will be guided by their experiences and will pay a small premium for some perks

Sadly, such flyers are a tiny portion of the market. If there were enough of them to sustain an entire airline, we would have a domestic airline with superior service. Yes, B6 and CO offer a few features that other US airlines don't, but they can't charge higher fares for that service. B6 succeeds by charging the *same* fare (speaking generally) for a better product, which they can do because their expenses are lower in areas the customer can't see. CO succeeds because of their route structure. They could offer no PTVs or food and their sales wouldn't change substantially.

Every attempt to charge more, market-wide (I'm not talking about differences of a few bucks on a given day here and there, which always cut both ways), has failed. Period. (There is one single exception, which is JFK-SFO/LAX transcons.) The market rewards carriers who shave off $2, no matter what they have to cut to do it.

The way the vast majority of people buy tickets, with no information displayed in most cases except for the carrier, price, schedule, and number of stops, reinforces this tendency. Air travel is sold as a commodity. When the customer isn't provided any more information, we shouldn't be surprised to see him choose the $2 cheaper fare.

I'm not easy to offend (and I live in Boston ), so I don't particularly care about rude service provided that it's effective (which it usually is in my experience). I have my own entertainment and don't care about IFE. But I would pay considerably more for clean planes and wider seats. I'm now used to the fact that the market disagrees.

[Edited 2007-12-08 12:02:32]
 
lincoln
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RE: Rumour: PTVs On All CO Aircraft

Sat Dec 08, 2007 8:36 pm



Quoting Seabosdca (Reply 22):
Yes, B6 and CO offer a few features that other US airlines don't, but they can't charge higher fares for that service. B6 succeeds by charging the *same* fare (speaking generally) for a better product, which they can do because their expenses are lower in areas the customer can't see. CO succeeds because of their route structure. They could offer no PTVs or food and their sales wouldn't change substantially

The other thing the CO has going for it is superior customer service (and based on what I've heard about B6 the same is mostly true over there, but having never flown B6 I can only judge based on what I hear).

While I would be disappointed if CO stopped serving meals, I would likely continue to fly CO exclusively*; if the customer service started sucking, my attitude on the subject may change.

But I'm also not in the "price sensitive" category, nor am I hemmed in by a restrictive travel policy -- When I'm travelling for business, I am essentially required to buy a fully refundable ticket [cheap they aren't -- my last trip was just under $2k and only included about 1,100 miles], but I can choose any airline. It helps the CO has a hub in Cleveland. When I'm traveling for pleasure, I don't even consider other airlines anymore so the difference in fare between CO and anyone else doesn't even enter the equation.

Lincoln
(* There are a few destinations, such as PLN, that CO doesn't serve or only serves by codeshare, and in those cases I will consider other airlines)
CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
 
UN_B732
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RE: Rumour: PTVs On All CO Aircraft

Sat Dec 08, 2007 9:36 pm

I think you can get one of those adaptors at RadioShack, or with a lot of moderately priced of headphones. Well worth it.

-A
What now?
 
bill142
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RE: Rumour: PTVs On All CO Aircraft

Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:54 pm



Quoting Mir (Reply 6):
Now if only they'd go to a single-prong headphone plug instead of the two-prong so that I can use my own headset.

Buy an airplane plug. Problem solved.
 
PiedmontINT
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RE: Rumour: PTVs On All CO Aircraft

Sat Dec 08, 2007 11:40 pm



Quoting Mir (Reply 19):
If a pax has never flown before, they will go for the cheapest fare.

This is an excellent point and a fine example of what I call the "Orbitz Effect." This is simply where the pax goes onto orbitz, travelocity, etc etc.. and see all the carriers lined up on one screen with all the prices. They will then proceed to select the cheapest one no matter who it is on, no matter if they have to make extra stops in delay prone airports, and no matter even if they have to go from DL to UA to US all in one trip, and then allow orbitz to book them a 30 minute connection in say ORD in January. Any experienced traveler would know that is insane and would gladly pay a little extra to have a nonstop or one stop at least on the same carrier and avoid these sorts of headaches. And the same would go for someone who knows that F9 and B6 have a much better product than say, US for example, even though they may fly the same equipment on some routes.

The leisure traveler who flys once every 5 years to Orlando to visit grandma doesnt give a rat's ass about these things usually and they automatically click that lowest price without breaking a sweat, no matter how silly the journey may be. And then have the nerve to complain about their lost bags when its all over..  Yeah sure
 
Mir
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RE: Rumour: PTVs On All CO Aircraft

Sun Dec 09, 2007 12:49 am



Quoting Bill142 (Reply 25):
Buy an airplane plug. Problem solved.

One more thing to worry about losing. UA manages to have one-prong plugs on their IFE, so does B6, so does DL on some of their aircraft IIRC. The advantages to the passenger are clear, so I'd hope that CO realizes that and changes their setup when they change their IFE.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
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CALTECH
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RE: Rumour: PTVs On All CO Aircraft

Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:58 am

This rumor is floating around MCO.
You are here.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Rumour: PTVs On All CO Aircraft

Sun Dec 09, 2007 3:44 am

It wouldn't surprise me. Of all U.S. airlines, CO seems to be the most fastidious about their onboard product. And it makes sense. They do a lot of coast-to-coast flying and a PTV is really nice for that.

I'd fly an airline with a PTV for a few extra bucks. People will do that if it's adequately marketed.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
milemaster
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RE: Rumour: PTVs On All CO Aircraft

Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:13 am



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 5):
there is less value in livetv than there is in AVOD. ask anyone who has a tivo/dvr, and ask them how much livetv they actually watch anymore. the odds are they will say little to none...

I disagree. There are many who appreciate the ability to watch the market and/or live sporting events.
 
Mir
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RE: Rumour: PTVs On All CO Aircraft

Sun Dec 09, 2007 7:38 am



Quoting Milemaster (Reply 30):
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 5):
there is less value in livetv than there is in AVOD. ask anyone who has a tivo/dvr, and ask them how much livetv they actually watch anymore. the odds are they will say little to none...

I disagree. There are many who appreciate the ability to watch the market and/or live sporting events.

This is true. By the same token, however, LiveTV can be all but useless at certain times of the day.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
mcamargo
Posts: 82
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:46 am

RE: Rumour: PTVs On All CO Aircraft

Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:46 am



Quoting Mir (Reply 31):
This is true. By the same token, however, LiveTV can be all but useless at certain times of the day.

This is true...
Reminds me of a friend a year back who booked a flight on JetBlue at X time and spent a few extra bucks on it solely to be able to watch a TV program he "just couldn't miss"... If more/all airlines adopt LiveTV, soon it wont be that we book flights based on when it's most convenient for us, but rather based on when our favorite TV shows will be on.
I live for the day mainline returns to BRO...
 
ikramerica
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RE: Rumour: PTVs On All CO Aircraft

Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:19 am



Quoting UN_B732 (Reply 24):
I think you can get one of those adaptors at RadioShack, or with a lot of moderately priced of headphones. Well worth it.

Very cheap at many places. $2. CO should offer them for $1 just like they offer the $1 headphones, again "yours to keep"

Quoting Mir (Reply 27):
One more thing to worry about losing. UA manages to have one-prong plugs on their IFE, so does B6, so does DL on some of their aircraft IIRC. The advantages to the passenger are clear, so I'd hope that CO realizes that and changes their setup when they change their IFE.

If you understood the technical reasons, you wouldn't be so cavalier. Dual prongs mean dual grounds. Isolating the ground on the left and right channels has benefits, especially in an electrically noisy environment like an airplane. If there was no benefit, airlines would not have had them installed this way, as the single stereo miniplug is cheaper to implement.

Newer systems have overcome this concern for the most part, but many airlines stayed with the dual prong because of the large installed base in their older fleets. Makes it easier to stock headphones for every flight if they aren't two types.

B6, having a new fleet, didn't have legacy installationg. UA has such outdated IFE on much of their fleet, they don't have PTVs anyway. DL probably has the stereo plug on their newest and "song" birds.

Quoting Mir (Reply 31):
This is true. By the same token, however, LiveTV can be all but useless at certain times of the day.

At many, many times of day. Redeyes are mostly 24 channels of infomercials, for example. Saturday afternoons are wastelands, as are Sunday mornings.

It's also annoying to board and come into the middle of a TV show or the middle of a movie, then land during the middle of the next show or movie. On a 2.5 hour flight, you get to watch zero complete programs/movies on livetv unless your flight just happens to board at the right time.

Yes, some people really want to follow the market, but that only counts for 7 hours a day, 5 days a week except holidays. And most people DON'T watch CNBC. Their viewer numbers are small, but they are a wealthy lot, which is why you get good advertising. But that same wealth doesn't translate into super expensive tickets, as those fares are purchased by last minute business travelers mostly, who are supposed to be working during their flight, not watching television.

But you will please many more people with free AVOD with multiple episodes of popular TV shows, kids programming, new and classic movies, etc., all which can be started and paused at will, than with a limited number of channels of livetv with commercials and random start times (in relation to flight times).

I found that on B6, I was watching the special Simpsons channel and not liveTV on my midday Saturday flight. There was nothing else on! On my AVOD flights on other carriers, there was plenty to choose from...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
Mir
Posts: 19491
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Rumour: PTVs On All CO Aircraft

Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:46 am



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 33):
Newer systems have overcome this concern for the most part, but many airlines stayed with the dual prong because of the large installed base in their older fleets.

It's fine if they weren't able to do it before because of technical problems, but it would make sense for them to change to single-prong as they redo the systems.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 33):
On a 2.5 hour flight, you get to watch zero complete programs/movies on livetv unless your flight just happens to board at the right time.

You must watch long programs. You could watch at least one hour-long program in 2.5 hours, and three half-hour programs.

If you prefer AVOD, that's fine. I can't say I particularly mind it either, but I do like the ability to watch a live sports game or stay up to date with the current news at a time when I would otherwise have little else to do.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
ikramerica
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RE: Rumour: PTVs On All CO Aircraft

Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:29 am



Quoting Mir (Reply 34):
You must watch long programs. You could watch at least one hour-long program in 2.5 hours, and three half-hour programs.

It depends on if you are allowed to watch from boarding to debarkation or must wait until cruise. If the video is in the armrest, that's really only 1.5-1.75 hours of viewing time. If you come in 10 minutes late to an hour long show, you'll miss the end of the next one. As for movies on livetv, most have commercials, and they are 2 hours because of this (or more). Won't get to watch any movie on a shorter flight. With AVOD, you would get to choose a 90 minute one, see it all the way through.

With the channels livetv provides, most of the 1/2 hour shows are HGTV and the like, things I really couldn't care less about.

This has been my experience with all the different systems, and I'd much rather have control of what I watch and when it starts in most cases. And even a 'channel based' ptv that starts it's loop when F/A says so offers the opportunity to watch complete shows/movies.

Now, if it's a playoff football game? Sure, it would be awesome to be able to watch it. Airlines used to offer that in the 80s via the VHF antenna. Watched plenty of games on AA 767s between DFW and NYC as a kid on a holiday sunday afternoon. Would be nice if that could be worked out with the AVOD systems.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.

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