User avatar
mats
Topic Author
Posts: 557
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2003 11:20 pm

NWA/KLM Operations At ORD

Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:28 am

Is there a reason that NWA and KLM have separate operations at Chicago/O'Hare. Northwest is in Terminal 2, KLM is in Terminal 5. I thought the deal was that Northwest handled all of KLM's ground operations in the United States. Are there other airports that are split up like this?
 
UnitedTristar
Posts: 861
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 6:45 am

RE: NWA/KLM Operations At ORD

Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:31 am

Well, there are two main reasons for this.

1. Customs is in T5 and they would have to dump at T5 and tow over to T2 for departure which costs money

2. There is no advantage to them operating with NW as they don't count on a passenger feed from NW at ORD.

-m

 airplane 
 
jetblueguy22
Posts: 3307
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:26 am

RE: NWA/KLM Operations At ORD

Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:33 am

It is becasue international arival and departures are from terminal 5. NW is in Term 2 because that is for domestic flights.
Blue
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
Mir
Posts: 19491
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: NWA/KLM Operations At ORD

Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:36 am

Terminal 5 is ORD's only international arrivals terminal, so KLM has to arrive there. Since Terminal 2 doesn't really have the room for large aircraft, and since people aren't all that likely to be connecting from NW to KL at ORD, there's no real need to have them in the same terminal. I think the only airline that bothers relocating from T5 for departures besides UA and AA is LH (departs from Terminal 1), who likely has a decent amount of connecting traffic from UA.

Quoting Mats (Thread starter):
Are there other airports that are split up like this?

I believe that SFO has NW and KL in Terminal 1 and the International Terminal respectively.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: NWA/KLM Operations At ORD

Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:36 am

And there's very, very little space on the ramp at T2 to park a 744 . . .
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 3507
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

RE: NWA/KLM Operations At ORD

Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:49 am



Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 4):
And there's very, very little space on the ramp at T2 to park a 744

True but NW did it for years when they flew ORD-NRT. Thats why there is that weird jetway at the very end of the NW concourse.
 
TedEx
Posts: 167
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 9:29 am

RE: NWA/KLM Operations At ORD

Sun Dec 09, 2007 3:37 am



Quoting Mir (Reply 3):
I think the only airline that bothers relocating from T5 for departures besides UA and AA is LH (departs from Terminal 1)

Iberia departs from T3 and ANA departs from T1.
 
eghansen
Posts: 281
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:33 pm

RE: NWA/KLM Operations At ORD

Sun Dec 09, 2007 4:30 am



Quoting Mir (Reply 3):
I believe that SFO has NW and KL in Terminal 1 and the International Terminal respectively.

In SFO, domestic United flights arrive and depart from Terminal 3 and International flights arrive and depart from Terminal I (International Terminal). The terminals are next to each other, but it is still a walk. I believe you have to reclear security if you walk from Terminal 3 to Terminal I, but I could be wrong about that.

Also, Northwest Airlines flight SFO-NRT arrives and departs from Terminal I (International), while all other NW flights arrives and departs from Terminal 1.

In fact, I believe all international arrivals and departures are in Terminal I no matter if the airline has domestic operation in another terminal. I don't believe that there are any customs facilities in any other terminal but Terminal I.
Nowadays, it is hard to tell when the commercials end and real life begins
 
deltairlines
Posts: 6939
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 4:47 am

RE: NWA/KLM Operations At ORD

Sun Dec 09, 2007 5:30 am



Quoting Mir (Reply 3):
Quoting Mats (Thread starter):
Are there other airports that are split up like this?

I believe that SFO has NW and KL in Terminal 1 and the International Terminal respectively.

And when KL launches DFW, they'll be in Terminal D; NW is in E. It is pretty easy to get over from E to D though - hop on the train and you're there in 3 minutes.
 
User avatar
NWAESC
Posts: 1135
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:02 pm

RE: NWA/KLM Operations At ORD

Sun Dec 09, 2007 7:23 am



Quoting Mats (Thread starter):
I thought the deal was that Northwest handled all of KLM's ground operations in the United States.

The only airports where NW handles KL rampside are MSP, DTW and LAX (I think???).

There may be several cities left where we still handle the above wing duties for them, but I'm not sure which ones specifically.
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
DIJKKIJK
Posts: 1831
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 11:03 pm

RE: NWA/KLM Operations At ORD

Sun Dec 09, 2007 9:45 am



Quoting Mir (Reply 3):
Terminal 5 is ORD's only international arrivals terminal, so KLM has to arrive there. Since Terminal 2 doesn't really have the room for large aircraft, and since people aren't all that likely to be connecting from NW to KL at ORD, there's no real need to have them in the same terminal. I think the only airline that bothers relocating from T5 for departures besides UA and AA is LH (departs from Terminal 1), who likely has a decent amount of connecting traffic from UA.

Why does LH get a lot of connecting pax from UA while KL doesn't get any from NW?

Can you explain this?
Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
 
sk601
Posts: 897
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 11:46 pm

RE: NWA/KLM Operations At ORD

Sun Dec 09, 2007 9:49 am



Quoting DIJKKIJK (Reply 10):
Why does LH get a lot of connecting pax from UA while KL doesn't get any from NW?

ORD is a hub for UA, not for NW (DTW/MSP/MEM).
 
AJO
Posts: 487
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2005 9:55 pm

RE: NWA/KLM Operations At ORD

Sun Dec 09, 2007 9:57 am

I assume because most connecting pax go through NW hubs DTW and MSP...
bla
 
User avatar
mats
Topic Author
Posts: 557
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2003 11:20 pm

RE: NWA/KLM Operations At ORD

Sun Dec 09, 2007 3:05 pm

Wow.Times have changed. I thought the whole plan was that there are no KLM airport staff in the United States.
 
Lexy
Posts: 1492
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:05 am

RE: NWA/KLM Operations At ORD

Sun Dec 09, 2007 3:32 pm

I think the two are split up in Atlanta as well. Matter of fact, I know they are.

[Edited 2007-12-09 07:33:17]
Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
 
sk601
Posts: 897
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 11:46 pm

RE: NWA/KLM Operations At ORD

Sun Dec 09, 2007 4:34 pm



Quoting Mats (Reply 13):
I thought the whole plan was that there are no KLM airport staff in the United States.

Besides a station manager there is no KLM staff at US airports. KL uses a handling agent at SFO, ATL, ORD, IAD and IAH (Swissport?), except LAX and EWR (NW). Don't know about JFK. All other non stop routes between AMS and the USA are operated by NWA (MEM, MSP, DTW, BDL, BOS, SEA).
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14215
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: NWA/KLM Operations At ORD

Sun Dec 09, 2007 8:10 pm



Quoting USFlyer MSP (Reply 5):
True but NW did it for years when they flew ORD-NRT. Thats why there is that weird jetway at the very end of the NW concourse.

FWIW, F14 can also handle widebodies, IIRC up to a 744.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 7479
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: NWA/KLM Operations At ORD

Sun Dec 09, 2007 10:05 pm



Quoting SK601 (Reply 15):

Besides a station manager there is no KLM staff at US airports. KL uses a handling agent at SFO, ATL, ORD, IAD and IAH (Swissport?), except LAX and EWR (NW). Don't know about JFK. All other non stop routes between AMS and the USA are operated by NWA (MEM, MSP, DTW, BDL, BOS, SEA).

JFK KLM flights are handled by NW, like in LAX & EWR.
 
eghansen
Posts: 281
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:33 pm

RE: NWA/KLM Operations At ORD

Sun Dec 09, 2007 10:12 pm



Quoting AJO (Reply 12):
I assume because most connecting pax go through NW hubs DTW and MSP...

And the service is huge. MSP - AMS is three times per day on NW. DTW - AMS is four times per day on NW. KL does not fly to either DTW or MSP. So NW probably prefers to route all passengers through their network.
Nowadays, it is hard to tell when the commercials end and real life begins
 
elmothehobo
Posts: 983
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:10 am

RE: NWA/KLM Operations At ORD

Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:33 am



Quoting Eghansen (Reply 18):
So NW probably prefers to route all passengers through their network.

It isn't even a matter of preference, as for all intents and purposes KLM and Northwest are the same airline over the Atlantic. Either way passengers are routed, Northwest and KLM split the proceeds 50-50.

Quoting Mats (Reply 13):
Wow.Times have changed. I thought the whole plan was that there are no KLM airport staff in the United States.

Nothing has changed, and the same is true for Northwest in Europe.
 
jetdeltamsy
Posts: 2688
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2000 11:51 am

RE: NWA/KLM Operations At ORD

Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:44 am



Quoting UnitedTristar (Reply 1):
and tow over to T2 for departure which costs money

Not to mention the fact that NWA's gates @ ORD are for small aircraft. They don't have nearly enough space to handle the daily 747 that KLM sends in.

Quoting Jetblueguy22 (Reply 2):
It is becasue international arival and departures are from terminal 5

Incorrect. United, Lufthansa and ANA fly out of T1. American and Iberia fly out of T3.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14215
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: NWA/KLM Operations At ORD

Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:48 am



Quoting Eghansen (Reply 18):

And the service is huge. MSP - AMS is three times per day on NW. DTW - AMS is four times per day on NW.

Keep in mind, too, that NW/KL really does not need to route any connections over ORD to have success at ORD... the 74M only holds 278 passengers, and KL flew to ORD long before NW came along.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14215
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: NWA/KLM Operations At ORD

Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:59 am



Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 20):
Not to mention the fact that NWA's gates @ ORD are for small aircraft. They don't have nearly enough space to handle the daily 747 that KLM sends in.

They handled their own 747 for years at E15.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
elmothehobo
Posts: 983
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:10 am

RE: NWA/KLM Operations At ORD

Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:02 am



Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 20):
Incorrect. United, Lufthansa and ANA fly out of T1. American and Iberia fly out of T3.

Iberia and American's international arrivals go through Terminal 5, aircraft are towed back to T3 for the departure. IIRC T1 and T5 are the only terminals with FIS.
 
LFutia
Posts: 3158
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2002 11:04 am

RE: NWA/KLM Operations At ORD

Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:40 am



Quoting SK601 (Reply 15):

Besides a station manager there is no KLM staff at US airports. KL uses a handling agent at SFO, ATL, ORD, IAD and IAH (Swissport?), except LAX and EWR (NW). Don't know about JFK. All other non stop routes between AMS and the USA are operated by NWA (MEM, MSP, DTW, BDL, BOS, SEA).

For ORD is it Swissport and I have seen the people who work for KLM in KLM uniforms, however, they don't speak Dutch. I have had a chance to the KLM gate and requested the AD and De Telegraaf from the crew Big grin

Leo
Leo/ORD
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14215
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: NWA/KLM Operations At ORD

Mon Dec 10, 2007 3:22 pm



Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 23):
IIRC T1 and T5 are the only terminals with FIS.

Just T-5, actually.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
burnsie28
Posts: 5279
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:49 am

RE: NWA/KLM Operations At ORD

Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:01 pm



Quoting NWAESC (Reply 9):
The only airports where NW handles KL rampside are MSP, DTW and LAX (I think???).

I believe it also applies at EWR and JFK. Which is one of th reasons why JFK didn't lose NW employees. DTW, MSP, and MEM are all NW now anyway.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos