Leezyjet
Topic Author
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VS Off Runway In ANU?.

Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:55 am

Just read a rumour on another forum that a VS 747 has possibly run off the runway at ANU. Apparently ran off whilst back tracking on 07.

Just wondered if anyone had heard anything, or had any more details ?.

 Smile
"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
 
LHR777
Posts: 645
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RE: VS Off Runway In ANU?.

Sun Dec 09, 2007 2:28 am

Virgin Atlantic website shows the following:

Flight number VS 034
Departure date 08 Dec 2007
Route Antigua (ANU) to London (LGW)
Scheduled departure time 08 Dec 18:30
Estimated departure time 09 Dec 18:30
Scheduled arrival time 09 Dec 06:30
Estimated arrival time 10 Dec 05:52

Looks like a 24 hour delay to the departure, so something is definitely not right!
 
wahdadli
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 3:16 am

RE: VS Off Runway In ANU?.

Sun Dec 09, 2007 5:13 am

I live Antigua, no pictures yet. Yes very true. Not sure what was the reason, but it appears that the pilot simply did not give himself/herself enough space and ended with left main gear in the mud.
 
ADXMatt
Posts: 520
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RE: VS Off Runway In ANU?.

Sun Dec 09, 2007 3:34 pm

According to the ANU Tower the airport is now open again.
The a/c is clear of the rwy and I do not know about a/c type or if any damage.
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: VS Off Runway In ANU?.

Sun Dec 09, 2007 3:41 pm

BA2156 was delayed by about 4 hours, I assume this was the time required to remove VS034 from the runway
 
Al319
Posts: 76
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RE: VS Off Runway In ANU?.

Sun Dec 09, 2007 4:41 pm

Here are some pics:

Big version: Width: 576 Height: 432 File size: 81kb
Big version: Width: 576 Height: 432 File size: 87kb
Big version: Width: 576 Height: 432 File size: 80kb
“atom celled…jet propelled”
 
kaneporta1
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RE: VS Off Runway In ANU?.

Sun Dec 09, 2007 5:18 pm

That's the second time in one week that this flight has been delayed for 24 hours. Last Saturday they had a problem with the nose gear steering, and after keeping the people in the 747 for 5 hours trying to fix it, they "postponed" the flight until the next day.
I'd rather die peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather, not terrified and screaming, like his passengers
 
express1
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RE: VS Off Runway In ANU?.

Sun Dec 09, 2007 7:24 pm



Quoting Al319 (Reply 5):
Here are some pics:

Pics? like where?
David.S cavanagh since 1961,if you can do better,then show me.
 
curticool
Posts: 150
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RE: VS Off Runway In ANU?.

Sun Dec 09, 2007 9:51 pm

Just click on the little squares

-Curticool Big grin
N102DA
 
sevenforeseven
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RE: VS Off Runway In ANU?.

Sun Dec 09, 2007 10:01 pm

No Pics!!!! Even by clicking on the VERY small squares.
 
aa1818
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Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:03 am

RE: VS Off Runway In ANU?.

Sun Dec 09, 2007 10:06 pm



Quoting Sevenforeseven (Reply 9):
No Pics!!!! Even by clicking on the VERY small squares.

I got the pics!

Wait till you get the hands when you 'mouse over' the small squares.

AA1818
“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
BA380
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RE: VS Off Runway In ANU?.

Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:06 pm

how did they get teh aircraft out of the mud again?
cabin crew: doors to automatic and cross-check...
 
Sketty222
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RE: VS Off Runway In ANU?.

Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:09 pm

I got the pics..... thanks for uploading them
ANU has quite a big turning circle at the top of the runway so how they got stuck I dont know.


Lee
There's flying and then there's flying
 
BlueShamu330s
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RE: VS Off Runway In ANU?.

Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:16 pm



Quoting Sketty222 (Reply 12):
ANU has quite a big turning circle at the top of the runway so how they got stuck I dont know.

.......but with inadequate lighting and pi$$ poor markings.

I think this makes a total of 3 widebodies which have gone off piste at the end of 07 in the last 7 or 8 years.

Shamu
Flying around India
 
BlueShamu330s
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RE: VS Off Runway In ANU?.

Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:20 am

Sketty, the turnaround button at the end of RWY07 is a bugger to get round at the best of times, and is really neither large nor is it the best shape, as you can see in the pic below.



Funnily enough, you had to take more care in the 330 (nose config.) than 777s and 747s.

What you can't see in the picture is that as you commence the turn back onto 07, there is quite an upslope requiring bags of power; not an ideal when you're trying to perform a tight 230-odd degree turn.

Added to that, the lighting is diabolical and markings (or lack of) leave alot to be desired, again not good when you consider that when the European flights are leaving, you tend to be right into the sun before and as you turn. If the runway is wet, the markings all but disappear.

There is a great parallel taxiway to the north of 07/25. Can you see some white hard standing north of the 07 markings? That's it......it goes from the apron to, errrrrrr, just there !! It would be great if they ever got round to finishing it, then backtracking would be a thing of the past.

Still, I can think of far worse places to be HOTACed.  

Shamu

[Edited 2007-12-09 16:23:14]
Flying around India
 
rfields5421
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RE: VS Off Runway In ANU?.

Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:32 am

When I lived on Antigua close to 30 years ago it was a challenge for the four time weekly C-141 flights. One day we watched a USAF C-5 actually have the crew chief get out on a head set to help the pilots get the bird turned without going off.
 
FLVILLA
Posts: 316
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RE: VS Off Runway In ANU?.

Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:58 am

Well this cock-up by VS cancelled my flight yesterday, VS027 and basically half a plane load of people where left behind at LGW. Luckily the rest of us got onto VS015 albeit suffering a short technical delay itself.

Feel very sorry for those who where at MCO supposed to be returing on VS028 last night.

It just seems time after time that VS has fleet problems, something going tech and it takes days to recover. Our cabin crew where surprised they hadn't gone out of hours.

Think it's time to stick with BA.
I hope in life i can work to live, not live to work
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: VS Off Runway In ANU?.

Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:22 pm



Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 14):
There is a great parallel taxiway to the north of 07/25. Can you see some white hard standing north of the 07 markings? That's it......it goes from the apron to, errrrrrr, just there !! It would be great if they ever got round to finishing it, then backtracking would be a thing of the past.

When I flew in to ANU back in May of this year, it was obvious that no work had been done on the taxiway for quite some time; there were weeds beginning to grow through the sub base, and no sign of any tarmac. Well it is Antigua, and if they finished it there would in all likelihood be a massive pot hole at some point, and a couple of tethered goats to swerve round
 sarcastic 
 
trintocan
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RE: VS Off Runway In ANU?.

Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:29 pm

ANU seems to have a problem with planes getting into trouble on its Tarmac - remember in 2001 a BA 777-200 got stuck in the runway Tarmac while back-tracking. If I remember correctly this was at a time when some repairs were ongoing. It took a couple of days to liberate it.

Yes, a parallel taxiway would be a boon to ANU but one wonders if space is available to build it.

TrinToCan.
Hop to it, fly for life!
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: VS Off Runway In ANU?.

Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:37 pm



Quoting Trintocan (Reply 18):
Yes, a parallel taxiway would be a boon to ANU but one wonders if space is available to build it.

As you can see on the photo, they have started to build one, but as with everything else in Antigua, they haven't got round to finishing it.
 
BlueShamu330s
Posts: 2584
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2001 3:11 am

RE: VS Off Runway In ANU?.

Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:41 pm



Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 17):
and a couple of tethered goats to swerve round

....only if they've forgotten to load the economy catering  Big grin

Shamu
Flying around India
 
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AviatorG
Posts: 256
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RE: VS Off Runway In ANU?.

Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:13 am

I managed to get several great high quality exposures that night. I should have them uploaded this week, as soon as I re-install CS3 on my system. Interesting to note that G-VROY was recently painted in the new VS c/s.

VS 34 "Pretty Lady", hours before the incident ..

https://www.airliners.net/addphotos/b...S33H_TAPA_New_CS_Final_Edit_22.jpg

G

[Edited 2007-12-10 18:24:13]
 
Thomsonfly
Posts: 155
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RE: VS Off Runway In ANU?.

Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:29 pm

I last operated on G-VROY a couple of days ago on the 28 from MCO to LGW, love working on her! Looks so smart in the new livery too. Back to the -600 for my next flight!

Mark
 
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airkas1
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RE: VS Off Runway In ANU?.

Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:45 pm



Quoting AviatorG (Reply 21):

Gianni, you've got 2 A.net copyright banners in your uploaded photo. I'm not sure if that'll work.
 
wahdadli
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 3:16 am

RE: VS Off Runway In ANU?.

Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:26 am

Well what i would like to know is if there was a problem with lighting, how is it that no other aircraft have had this issue? The previous incedents where during daylight hours. Additionally passenger reports are that the pilot NEVER entered the turning area at the end of RWY07. That flight also opperated late out of london due to mechanical problems.
 
Bongodog1964
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Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:29 am

RE: VS Off Runway In ANU?.

Thu Dec 13, 2007 11:09 am



Quoting Wahdadli (Reply 24):
Additionally passenger reports are that the pilot NEVER entered the turning area at the end of RWY07.

Unless I'm misreading the photos, the plane appears to have become stuck at the completion of its turn; as the photos seem to show the main road to the airport in the foreground. Does the above comment mean that the pilot turned on the main runway, not going to the end where it is wider ?
 
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AviatorG
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RE: VS Off Runway In ANU?.

Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:27 pm



Quoting AirKas1 (Reply 23):

Gianni, you've got 2 A.net copyright banners in your uploaded photo. I'm not sure if that'll work.

I don't plan on uploading that version at all Kas  Smile. Just saved a rejection, & re-uploaded it a 2nd time (so that I could add a copyright banner for this forum).

cool 
 
wahdadli
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 3:16 am

RE: VS Off Runway In ANU?.

Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:46 pm

Thats almost right. He did go to the end, but did not go into the wider turning area on the left. One is left to wonder if he had all his wits with him. Additionally there was no mud, as was reported in some online logs. Weather was great.
 
BlueShamu330s
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RE: VS Off Runway In ANU?.

Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:55 pm



Quoting Wahdadli (Reply 27):
Thats almost right. He did go to the end, but did not go into the wider turning area on the left. One is left to wonder if he had all his wits with him.

He had his wits with him, because you turn left into the button from the right at ANU, anticlockwise,not the other way round. Into the sun, wet runway, poor markings, very VERY easy to misread the turning point.  Yeah sure

 redflag  Seems there are plenty of armchair experts here who've never actually flown metal into ANU.  redflag 

Shamu
Flying around India
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: VS Off Runway In ANU?.

Thu Dec 13, 2007 11:08 pm



Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 28):
He had his wits with him, because you turn left into the button from the right at ANU, anticlockwise,not the other way round. Into the sun, wet runway, poor markings, very VERY easy to misread the turning point.

Seems there are plenty of armchair experts here who've never actually flown metal into ANU.

Still can't quite grasp this one. When backtracking at ANU for departure the turn is normally anticlockwise as stated; so how do you get the left main gear off the runway ? The right very probably, but the left should always be in the centre of the runway. Wouldn't think the sun comes into it as VS normally depart for LGW after sunset.
 
wahdadli
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Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 3:16 am

RE: VS Off Runway In ANU?.

Fri Dec 14, 2007 12:54 pm

As an aircraft backtracks on RWY07 it must enter the turning circle on its left. As to how he ended up where he did is anyone guess. The working theory here is that he attempted to turn the aircraft using only the actual weigh of the runaway. But then the question remains, how did he end up where he did? After all he did manage to get the aircraft heading in the correct direction for takeoff. With regards to sun in his eyes, well that flight was operating late, and my vantage point the sun was not an issue. That said he did manage to find his way down the same runaway and take off at night with no additional issues... hmmmm..
 
Leezyjet
Topic Author
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RE: VS Off Runway In ANU?.

Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:04 pm



Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 28):
He had his wits with him, because you turn left into the button from the right at ANU, anticlockwise,not the other way round. Into the sun, wet runway, poor markings, very VERY easy to misread the turning point.

Are you sure you got your left/right, clockwise/anti clockwise right BS330s ?. Just reading on the proffesional pilots forum and they stated that the a/c should normally turn from the straight side into the button which would make it a left (anti-clockwise) turn, but at ANU it is opposite i.e, turn clockwise round to the right to avoid blowing cars off the road adjacent to the runway. Set of traffic lights on that road would solve the problem quicker than finishing the parallel taxiway and allow the a/c to turn the correct way round.


https://www.airliners.net/uf/536879876/phptw1hVD.jpg

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 28):
Seems there are plenty of armchair experts here who've never actually flown metal into ANU.

Not trying to be an armchair expert, just double checking.


 Smile
"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
 
BlueShamu330s
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RE: VS Off Runway In ANU?.

Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:35 pm

Leezy

I think my narrative was misleading if not clear.

Perhaps I should have done this in the first instance and shown it on the pic instead of lefts, rights, clockwise and anticlockwise; below is the non-standard turn required at ANU. There isn't the room available for a 747 to go clockwise into and round the button. I couldn't make out much on the pictures, but perhaps they tried it the standard way, which at ANU is of course the non-standard way....confused ?!

Big version: Width: 920 Height: 751 File size: 109kb


Shamu

[Edited 2007-12-14 09:37:23]
Flying around India
 
wahdadli
Posts: 38
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RE: VS Off Runway In ANU?.

Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:03 pm

Well I have lived in Antigua all my life, and departed from there more time than i can remember also spent hours just observing. The standard departure from RWY07 is as appears in RED on the attached photo. The blue dots indicate the location of the aircraft nose and main gear when it came to a stop. In the years (just 32of them.. lol..  Smile) i have observed aircraft here only a hand full have done the turn in an anticlockwise process.

Big version: Width: 920 Height: 751 File size: 67kb
 
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airkas1
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RE: VS Off Runway In ANU?.

Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:06 pm



Quoting AviatorG (Reply 26):
I don't plan on uploading that version at all Kas . Just saved a rejection, & re-uploaded it a 2nd time (so that I could add a copyright banner for this forum).

Oh right! Big grin Then I haven't said a thing  Wink
 
BlueShamu330s
Posts: 2584
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RE: VS Off Runway In ANU?.

Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:38 pm

Wahdadli, you wouldn't happen to be Camprax on another forum would you? If so, we're going over old ground.  Wow!

Fact is, it is both easier and safer, ergo best, to do the turn left, anticlockwise in the 747 and 330/340 due to the pi$$ poor dimensions of the button and the upslope and the appallingly misleading markings.

The other way round is just an incident waiting to happen.....

...Oh sorry, it just has......again.

Quoting Wahdadli (Reply 33):
only a hand full have done the turn in an anticlockwise process.

And I bet every single one of them was 747 or 330/340 equipment.

I appreciate anyone defending their local airfield, and I'm not having a dig for the sake of it. However, Antigua likes the revenue from tourism, but it seems diddly squat of it gets invested in its airport; parallel taxiway anyone??  Yeah sure

Shamu
Flying around India
 
wahdadli
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 3:16 am

RE: VS Off Runway In ANU?.

Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:03 pm

No thats not me. This has nothing to do with defending the airfield. No one could ever say that the airport here is not lacking, many things to be improve on. But despite its short comings its still certified to take flights of all types. But events like this tend to be blown up a bit simply because of its location.

My point is that the event cannot be explained in the manner that most message boards have stated.

Of the aircraft I have seen going as indicated in Shamu's pic non were wide-body.

Parallel taxi way is complete, but only in use with smaller aircraft.
 
Plunjer
Posts: 7
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RE: VS Off Runway In ANU?.

Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:58 pm

FLVILLA, any airline will from time to time have technical problems and delays. A plane will see more wear and tear stresses in a month than your car will see in its lifetime. BA also had this same problem with a B-777 in Antigua not so long ago, except it wasn't sliding off, but rather getting stuck in a newly resurfaced part of that same turnaround bay and that also took a similar or actually, longer time to correct. That 'new' taxiway barely visible in the aerial photo has been completed but does not go to the end, and not sure if it can be utilized by large types.... looks as though the wing tips would be almost over the road !

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