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ikramerica
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RE: "CO Hopes Turboprop Planes Ease Newark Congestion"

Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:32 pm



Quoting Bond007 (Reply 48):
I'm not disagreeing, but "I hate the Q400", really means nothing unless you explain why you "hate" it.

Especially when it sounds as if he never flew on one...

Quoting SuseJ772 (Reply 47):
I am sure it is a nice plane.

Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
richierich
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RE: "CO Hopes Turboprop Planes Ease Newark Congestion"

Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:51 pm

I hope CO signs up for a landing gear contract and insurance with Bombardier regarding the Q400. Speaking of which, I guess there are a whole bunch that they could buy real cheap from a certain northern European carrier...!
None shall pass!!!!
 
CALMSP
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RE: "CO Hopes Turboprop Planes Ease Newark Congestion"

Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:57 pm

reports seem to be that the landing gear problems were isolated to SAS's fleet.
 
richierich
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RE: "CO Hopes Turboprop Planes Ease Newark Congestion"

Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:08 pm



Quoting CALMSP (Reply 52):
reports seem to be that the landing gear problems were isolated to SAS's fleet.

It does seem that way but, as far as I can tell, they are not really sure of the exact cause and why it kept happening. Surely SAS would have changed their maintenance standards enough to not have these problems keep occuring, right?

Anyway - I think the Q400 is a perfectly safe plane and I would have no problems boarding one. Its interesting to me to see how airlines keep waffling between turboprops and small RJs on short routes - the pendulum is swinging the other way these days compared to a decade ago.
None shall pass!!!!
 
cloudyapple
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RE: "CO Hopes Turboprop Planes Ease Newark Congestion"

Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:35 pm



Quoting STT757 (Thread starter):
"CO Hopes Turboprop Planes Ease Newark Congestion"  

I see how it helps Continental the airline but can someone tell me how it helps Newark the airport reduce congestions like the title of the thread suggests? As far as I know the slower approach speeds of the turboprop actually reduces runway throughput. And mixing jets and props will only make it more complex an operation.
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nyc2theworld
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RE: "CO Hopes Turboprop Planes Ease Newark Congestion"

Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:55 pm



Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 54):
I see how it helps Continental the airline but can someone tell me how it helps Newark the airport reduce congestions like the title of the thread suggests? As far as I know the slower approach speeds of the turboprop actually reduces runway throughput. And mixing jets and props will only make it more complex an operation.



Quoting STT757 (Thread starter):
Quote:
The Q400s will be able to use Newark's short east-west runway -- known as Runway 11/29 -- when wind conditions would force regional jets to use the busy main runways.

The turboprop "can operate on Newark's shorter crosswind runway in more weather conditions, thus reducing aircraft requirements on Newark's longer runways," Continental Senior Vice President Zane Rowe told the Senate Commerce Committee in a September hearing on airport congestion and delays.



Quoting STT757 (Thread starter):
Quote:
The Q400 carries 24 more passengers than the 50-seat regional jets that account for most of the short-haul Continental Express fleet. They will cruise at about 25,000 feet, well below the jet traffic lanes.

So In short, it can use a runway the jets can't during certain (i.e. almost daily) weather conditions...flys below the jets and carries more passengers, possibly allowing in the future schedule reductions but not seat reductions.
Always wonderers if this "last and final boarding call" is in fact THE last and final boarding call.
 
ADXMatt
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RE: "CO Hopes Turboprop Planes Ease Newark Congestion"

Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:27 pm



Quoting KAUSpilot (Reply 16):
I'm sorry, but that is incorrect. Props are capped at 79 seats and jets at 50. Taken directly from the CALALPA CBA:

C. The Company will not directly or through an Affiliate establish any new airline which
operates aircraft other than Small Jets and Small Turboprops; provided that a
transaction permitted by and in accordance with Part 7 below does not constitute
establishing a new airline under this Paragraph C.

Y. “Small Jet” means jet aircraft with an FAA certification of fifty (50) or fewer seats.

Z. “Small Turboprop” means turboprop aircraft with an FAA certification of seventynine
(79) or fewer seats.

Remember that the PILOTS are not the only work group with a scope clause in their CBA.
There is another employee work group that goes to mediation in early March as they feel that their scope clause was violated.
 
jetsetter629
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RE: "CO Hopes Turboprop Planes Ease Newark Congestion"

Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:37 pm

Will CO use these airplanes to the Philadelphia area? Service to PHL or even ILM to feed CO's international network would be great. It would be the 2/3 hour trip up the NJ Turnpike!
 
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STT757
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RE: "CO Hopes Turboprop Planes Ease Newark Congestion"

Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:50 pm



Quoting JetSetter629 (Reply 57):
Will CO use these airplanes to the Philadelphia area? Service to PHL or even ILM to feed CO's international network would be great. It would be the 2/3 hour trip up the NJ Turnpike!

CO codeshares with Amtrak between 30th Street station in Philadelphia and Newark Airport's rail link Airtrain station, Amtrak has the Northeast Regional trip between 30th Street and EWR at 56 minutes. That 56 Minutes is in any weather, for flights between PHL and EWR ground delays and weather can stretch that well over two hours. It's much better to take the Amtrak option.

CO also codeshares with Amtrak between EWR and Wilmington DE, New Haven CT, and Stamford CT.

http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/Conten...d=1081954181657&c=am2Copy&ssid=224
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STT757
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RE: "CO Hopes Turboprop Planes Ease Newark Congestion"

Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:55 pm



Quoting NYC2theworld (Reply 55):
So In short, it can use a runway the jets can't during certain (i.e. almost daily) weather conditions...flys below the jets and carries more passengers, possibly allowing in the future schedule reductions but not seat reductions.

The Q-400 also climbs quicker than the RJ, also next week the FAA will take the first step towards the airspace redesign when they begin dispersal headings on departures from EWR. Controllers will fan planes out in different directions upon take off, the Q-400 from 11/29 will be able to depart in a way that does not interfer with other departures.

http://www.thejournalnews.com/apps/p...71209/NEWS03/712090403/1029/NEWS13
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sxf24
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RE: "CO Hopes Turboprop Planes Ease Newark Congestion"

Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:03 pm



Quoting Arrow (Reply 49):
Explain to me how "cheaper" isn't an integral component of "efficient." I'd be interested to know where the efficiency crossover point is between a Q-400 and a jet. At some point, the jet gets faster, and at some further point it also gets cheaper.

Efficiency is more than variable costs, such as fuel. It also included cost of ownership and utilization of the asset.
 
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RE: "CO Hopes Turboprop Planes Ease Newark Congestion"

Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:09 pm



Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 12):
And please bring them to IAH and get rid of those SF34's Colgan Air is flying. I know, different markets and such but us in Houston want the Q!!!

Like I love to say, "DO THE COLGAN dit dit dit dit dit ditttt.." J/K. They aren't that bad. I flew them a lot out of Charlotte.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 17):
CO is going to replace ERJs with Q-400s on routes from EWR of 500 miles or less, current CO ERJ flights from EWR that are in that category includes..

This would make sense for a lot or carriers today, especially Delta. A lot of their routes that are flown by RJ's out of Atlanta can be flown by ATR's/Q's. I think they utilize the 12 ATR's they have pretty well but sending an RJ to Brunswick, GA doesn't make much sense to me. And a lot of routes like this has 2x/3x daily service. They do serve a lot of markets within 500 miles of Atlanta that can be switched to the turbo-prop. Like I said, I really do see this aircraft type making a come-back.
What gets measured gets done.
 
roseflyer
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RE: "CO Hopes Turboprop Planes Ease Newark Congestion"

Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:16 pm

It's great to see props helping alleviate some congestion. They use different paths to get into and out of many airports due to higher climb rates and different speeds. Not only can they use a shorter runway, but they will use some airspace that was previously unused because jet traffic doesn't need it. With the amount of Class Bravo airspace in the NYC area, there's more space for higher performance props.

Quoting Eghansen (Reply 4):
Possibly in the east coast, but not as likely in the western US

I know it's being discussed at length, but props never really left the west coast. While airlines massively dumped props, AS, AA and UA have large feeder fleets using props. Skywest operates many props for UA. QX is all prop. AE has props too.

The west has maintained a balance between RJs and props. When you look at SEA, you'll see very very few RJs. DL has some regional jets and of course the QX CR7s.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
RIXrat
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RE: "CO Hopes Turboprop Planes Ease Newark Congestion"

Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:17 pm

Speaking of the Q400, I flew on one of the ill-fated SK planes on a hop from RIX to ARN in September. At that time SK only had one flight into RIX. After the crashes, they pressed a BT F50 into the early afternoon time slot, so they don't fly here anymore. The Q400 is a very nice an comfortable aircraft. Before SK's withdrawal of them, I've also flown them between CPH-HAM-CPH.
 
westindian425
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RE: "CO Hopes Turboprop Planes Ease Newark Congestion"

Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:24 pm



Quoting Nkops (Reply 36):
Does 11/29 in EWR have an ILS??



Quoting N1120A (Reply 38):
No

Runway 11 has an ILS. The decision height is higher than standard. Runway 29 doesn't have an ILS, however if it is in use, flights will either use ILS 22L or 4R and circle to land on 29.

Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 54):
I see how it helps Continental the airline but can someone tell me how it helps Newark the airport reduce congestions like the title of the thread suggests? As far as I know the slower approach speeds of the turboprop actually reduces runway throughput. And mixing jets and props will only make it more complex an operation.

Turboprops can usually maintain a good forward speed well inside the outer marker and still slow down enough to make a safe landing. The Saab's and Dash 8s do that all the time.

Another obstacle to using 11/29 is taxiway availability. Those taxiways can get clogged if there is congestion in the lineup for 22R.
God did not create aircraft pilots to be on the ground
 
DC8FanJet
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RE: "CO Hopes Turboprop Planes Ease Newark Congestion"

Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:28 pm

There is considerable truth to the "less congestion" theory. The Regional Jets are "competing" with mainline jets at the same altitudes and speeds. Turboprops are down lower, and a bit slower (not much), so will utilize airspace more efficiently.
 
ikramerica
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RE: "CO Hopes Turboprop Planes Ease Newark Congestion"

Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:33 pm



Quoting DC8FanJet (Reply 65):
The Regional Jets are "competing" with mainline jets at the same altitudes and speeds.

I remember this was a complaint of the Pilot unions way back in the 90s, that the R-Jets used the same space and were slower to climbout forcing more congestion. Of course, they weren't being altruistic in this complaint, as they just wanted to keep more mainline aircraft in the fleets for salary reasons, and it really doesn't matter for places like CVG and CLE, but there is some truth to that argument, right?
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
threepoint
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RE: "CO Hopes Turboprop Planes Ease Newark Congestion"

Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:40 pm



Quoting CALMSP (Reply 52):
reports seem to be that the landing gear problems were isolated to SAS's fleet.

I seem to recall ANA having a nosegear-less landing in Japan before the SAS trio of incidents.
The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
 
jmc1975
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RE: "CO Hopes Turboprop Planes Ease Newark Congestion"

Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:47 pm



Quoting Arrow (Reply 49):
Any bean counters out there?

One bean, two bean, three bean, four .....
.......
 
Tornado82
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RE: "CO Hopes Turboprop Planes Ease Newark Congestion"

Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:04 pm



Quoting D328 (Reply 29):
But he did tell me the first few pilot bases for the Q400 will be EWR, PIT, ORF, BWI.

With Colgan, "pilot bases" means "RON stations" because they don't RON crews... they just "base" crews at all their outstations. This is an airline with other crew bases at such booming air travel markets as CKB, CRW, ABE, and UNV.  Silly

Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 54):
As far as I know the slower approach speeds of the turboprop actually reduces runway throughput. And mixing jets and props will only make it more complex an operation.

The Q's can keep their speed up until they're on a short final, so the speed differences are relatively moot. It's not like we're bring the Cape Air 402's in or some charter service running Cessna 182's here!

Quoting STT757 (Reply 59):
Controllers will fan planes out in different directions upon take off, the Q-400 from 11/29 will be able to depart in a way that does not interfer with other departures.

Will the westbounds still all meet back together somewhere at about East Texas?  Wink
 
N1120A
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RE: "CO Hopes Turboprop Planes Ease Newark Congestion"

Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:21 pm



Quoting WestIndian425 (Reply 64):

Runway 11 has an ILS. The decision height is higher than standard. Runway 29 doesn't have an ILS, however if it is in use, flights will either use ILS 22L or 4R and circle to land on 29.

Runway 11 doesn't have a full ILS, not even Cat. I. It has a localizer and a glideslope only.
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KingAirMan
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RE: "CO Hopes Turboprop Planes Ease Newark Congestion"

Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:27 am

who is going to be operating the Q400 ? CO or a contracted carrier?
 
Tornado82
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RE: "CO Hopes Turboprop Planes Ease Newark Congestion"

Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:35 am



Quoting Kingairman (Reply 71):
who is going to be operating the Q400 ? CO or a contracted carrier?

Colgan
 
bomber996
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RE: "CO Hopes Turboprop Planes Ease Newark Congestion"

Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:56 am



Quoting Kingairman (Reply 71):
who is going to be operating the Q400 ? CO or a contracted carrier?

Colgan Air

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Boeing7E7
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RE: "CO Hopes Turboprop Planes Ease Newark Congestion"

Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:03 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 70):
Runway 11 doesn't have a full ILS, not even Cat. I. It has a localizer and a glideslope only.


It is a precision runway and it has CAT I ILS minima, while not down to a standard 200 and 1/2 due to obstructions. It lacks approach lights which impacts the visibility minimums. An approach could theoretically be developed for approach category B and C aircraft with a 3.6 degree glide-path if approach lights (MALSR) are added with a DH of 270 and 1, possibly 3/4. The 34:1 surface is not clear precluding 200 and 1/2, the GQS would be clear under RNAV rules and therefore 3/4 is likely under WAAS, certainly under LAAS when it comes on line.

[Edited 2007-12-10 19:10:15]
 
USAFHummer
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RE: "CO Hopes Turboprop Planes Ease Newark Congest

Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:32 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 38):

Quoting Nkops (Reply 36):
Does 11/29 in EWR have an ILS??

No

Then explain this approach plate if you could, please:
http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0712/00285I11.PDF

[Edited 2007-12-10 19:37:57]
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UH60FtRucker
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RE: "CO Hopes Turboprop Planes Ease Newark Congestion"

Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:13 am

To be clear, KEWR Rwy 11 has three published approaches:

RNAV: http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0712/00285R11.PDF

VOR: http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0712/00285V11.PDF

and of course:

ILS: http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0712/00285I11.PDF

And I remember the rwy11 ILS vividly because as a crew chief a few years back, we failed to break through the cover and ended up going to TEB

-UH60
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westindian425
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RE: "CO Hopes Turboprop Planes Ease Newark Congestion"

Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:18 am



Quoting N1120A (Reply 70):
Runway 11 doesn't have a full ILS, not even Cat. I. It has a localizer and a glideslope only.



Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 74):
It is a precision runway and it has CAT I ILS minima, while not down to a standard 200 and 1/2 due to obstructions. It lacks approach lights which impacts the visibility minimums. An approach could theoretically be developed for approach category B and C aircraft with a 3.6 degree glide-path if approach lights (MALSR) are added with a DH of 270 and 1, possibly 3/4. The 34:1 surface is not clear precluding 200 and 1/2, the GQS would be clear under RNAV rules and therefore 3/4 is likely under WAAS, certainly under LAAS when it comes on line.



Quoting USAFHummer (Reply 75):
Then explain this approach plate if you could, please:
http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0712/00285...1.PDF

I was going to respond, but my colleagues here already took care of it.  Smile
God did not create aircraft pilots to be on the ground
 
FlyHoss
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RE: "CO Hopes Turboprop Planes Ease Newark Congestion"

Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:46 am



Quoting Jasondn (Reply 34):
Also remember that it only needs to climb to 25,000 ft so it is cruising alot quicker than a jet is as well.

True enough, but the true airspeed of most jets at that altitude (as they continue to climb to their cruise altitude) is already higher than the Q400s cruise speed. I'm not knocking the Q400, IMHO, it's a great machine.

Quoting Sxf24 (Reply 37):
Quoting KAUSpilot (Reply 16):
I'm sorry, but that is incorrect. Props are capped at 79 seats and jets at 50. Taken directly from the CALALPA CBA:

When did this change from 59?

It's been 50 under the current contract and IIRC, the previous pilot contract as well.
A little bit louder now, a lil bit louder now...
 
Jasondn
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RE: "CO Hopes Turboprop Planes Ease Newark Congestion"

Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:48 am

I know I added the comment on the 25,000ft cruising altitude earlier, but I just realised that 25,000ft is right in the middle of all the weather! It is going to be a roller coaster ride coming into Newark in winter!
 
Alias1024
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RE: "CO Hopes Turboprop Planes Ease Newark Congestion"

Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:28 am



Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 54):
As far as I know the slower approach speeds of the turboprop actually reduces runway throughput. And mixing jets and props will only make it more complex an operation.

Mixing the jets and Q400s shouldn't be tough. The Q400 can easily keep up with the jets in the terminal area since speeds are limited to 250 kts below 10,000 ft. Vref will only be around 15 kts slower than the jets, but the added flexibility of a turboprop will make up for this. The controllers will learn that the Q400 can go fast but slow down really quickly if necessary. It also needs a lot less runway than a jet. This will allow it to use 11/29 far more often.

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 62):
QX is all prop.

Except for the 21 CRJ-700s they operate.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
miamiair
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RE: "CO Hopes Turboprop Planes Ease Newark Congestion"

Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:48 am



Quoting Nkops (Reply 36):
Does 11/29 in EWR have an ILS??



Quoting N1120A (Reply 38):
No

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bond007
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RE: "CO Hopes Turboprop Planes Ease Newark Congestion"

Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:44 pm



Quoting Jasondn (Reply 79):
know I added the comment on the 25,000ft cruising altitude earlier, but I just realised that 25,000ft is right in the middle of all the weather! It is going to be a roller coaster ride coming into Newark in winter!

Most of the 500-600nm range RJ flights never get much above that altitude anyway (maybe FL270). Many of the routes mentioned are flown by RJs in the 10,000 - 27,000ft range, so 25,000 isn't an issue.

Jimbo
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yellowtail
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RE: "CO Hopes Turboprop Planes Ease Newark Congestion"

Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:41 pm

Maybe CO should run a every half hour shuttle to MSY from IAH....they could surely fill it and the Q400 would be perfect.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
Bravo1Six
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RE: "CO Hopes Turboprop Planes Ease Newark Congestion"

Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:04 pm

I'll say this - the Q400 looks good in CO's colours.
 
drewwright
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RE: "CO Hopes Turboprop Planes Ease Newark Congestion"

Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:15 pm



Quoting WestIndian425 (Reply 64):
Runway 11 has an ILS. The decision height is higher than standard. Runway 29 doesn't have an ILS, however if it is in use, flights will either use ILS 22L or 4R and circle to land on 29.

Don't forget the always fun "cleared for the ILS 11, circle to land 29!"
 
davescj
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RE: "CO Hopes Turboprop Planes Ease Newark Congestion"

Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:24 pm

Is not Newark slot controlled, so if CO reduces frequency, wouldn't someone add flights in -- and we'd be back where we are/were,no? I remember when AA and UA cut flights into/out of ORD, to relieve congestion, and other carriers promptly added flights. UA and AA weren't happly (naturally).

Also, will the same plane come to IAH to serve TX destinations?

Dave
Can I have a mojito on this flight?
 
flyboy97502
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RE: "CO Hopes Turboprop Planes Ease Newark Congestion"

Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:53 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 32):
The Q400 is, in fact, competitive in speed up to about 600nm. LAX-BOI is a good example of that.

Another QX Route example

LAX-MFR - 547.8 nautical miles

Q400 = 2hr avg flight time
CR7 = 1.5 avg.

both of those a/c service this route and there is a good comparison!

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 50):

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 48):
I'm not disagreeing, but "I hate the Q400", really means nothing unless you explain why you "hate" it.

Especially when it sounds as if he never flew on one...

Quoting SuseJ772 (Reply 47):
I am sure it is a nice plane.

Ditto to all of the above, explain yourself and your comments. irked 
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Cory6188
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RE: "CO Hopes Turboprop Planes Ease Newark Congestion"

Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:31 pm



Quoting Davescj (Reply 86):
I remember when AA and UA cut flights into/out of ORD, to relieve congestion, and other carriers promptly added flights. UA and AA weren't happly (naturally).

I think that everyone else has essentially ceded EWR to CO, save for a few token flights for each of the other major carriers to their hubs. While I don't know the situation at ORD, I wouldn't expect that the other legacies would attempt to jump in and add tons of flights - CO basically dominates, and everyone else accepts that fact. It's basically the same as DL at ATL (no other legacy would try to encroach there, for example), NW at DTW or MSP, AA at DFW, etc.
 
Arrow
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RE: "CO Hopes Turboprop Planes Ease Newark Congestion"

Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:41 pm



Quoting Flyboy97502 (Reply 87):
LAX-MFR - 547.8 nautical miles

Q400 = 2hr avg flight time
CR7 = 1.5 avg.

both of those a/c service this route and there is a good comparison!

How does the block time compare on these two?
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
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STT757
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RE: "CO Hopes Turboprop Planes Ease Newark Congestion"

Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:47 pm



Quoting Davescj (Reply 86):
Is not Newark slot controlled

There are no slot controls at EWR (never have been), any airline can add any flight or route at anytime.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
goboeing
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RE: "CO Hopes Turboprop Planes Ease Newark Congestion"

Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:50 pm



Quoting STT757 (Reply 59):
The Q-400 also climbs quicker than the RJ,

Does the Q400 really do 2000-3500 feet per minute in the climb below 10,000 feet?

I'm not saying it couldn't wow that's impressive if a prop can climb at 250 knots at 3000+ feet per minute. I really doubt it can.
 
IAHFLYR
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RE: "CO Hopes Turboprop Planes Ease Newark Congestion"

Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:58 pm



Quoting GoBoeing (Reply 91):
Does the Q400 really do 2000-3500 feet per minute in the climb below 10,000 feet?

I'm not saying it couldn't wow that's impressive if a prop can climb at 250 knots at 3000+ feet per minute. I really doubt it can.

I can tell ya when they had the demo flight for CO about 18-24 months back from IAH, I was working them on their eastbound departure and their ground speed was within 10 KTS of what the Boeings were climbing at below 10,000' and at a climb rate similar as well.....so I inquired to their vertical rate and forward speed as I had not worked a Q400 before!

Granted, I do not have a clue what their weights were and most likely pretty light for a demo flight, but the vertical rate was 3,000'/min, indicated airspeed 240 KTS.

WOW impressed me for sure as to the Q's ability.  Wow!
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
Boeing7E7
Posts: 5512
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2004 9:35 pm

RE: "CO Hopes Turboprop Planes Ease Newark Congestion"

Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:39 am



Quoting Flyboy97502 (Reply 87):
Q400 = 2hr avg flight time
CR7 = 1.5 avg.

QX Costs:

Aircraft: Q400 CR7

Stage Length: 548 548

Seats: 73 70

Block Hour Cost: $1,927.00 $2,318.00

Block Time: 126.2 102.5

Trip Cost: $4,052.14 $3,961.74

Seat Cost: $55.51 $56.60

ASM Cost: $0.1013 $0.1033
 
N1120A
Posts: 26567
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: "CO Hopes Turboprop Planes Ease Newark Congestion"

Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:44 am



Quoting Flyboy97502 (Reply 87):
Another QX Route example

LAX-MFR - 547.8 nautical miles

Q400 = 2hr avg flight time
CR7 = 1.5 avg.

Incorrect. The difference is between 2 hours and 2 hours 20 minutes.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Tornado82
Posts: 4662
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 10:19 am

RE: "CO Hopes Turboprop Planes Ease Newark Congestion"

Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:34 am



Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 93):
QX Costs:

Thanks for the numbers. Very useful, and answers the elusive question in that pretty much shows what the "push" mileage is for the Q400 vs the CRJ-700. It's likely a safe assumption that any trips shorter than 548nm show more favorable to the Q prop, and longer are more favorable to the RJ.

Does anyone have numbers for Continental/ExpressJet's ERJ-145 operations on a ~500 nm route to compare what Continental's CASM decrease will be on these routes?
 
flyboy97502
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:24 am

RE: "CO Hopes Turboprop Planes Ease Newark Congestion"

Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:45 am



Quoting N1120A (Reply 94):
Incorrect. The difference is between 2 hours and 2 hours 20 minutes.

I'm sorry but I was being modest with my times. These are true and close to actual times enroute. Scheduled time is different from actual. Where/how are you determining your times?
SKYHIGH Airlines- It's important that we get the SkyHigh message out there. That message? Thank you for your money.
 
Alias1024
Posts: 2649
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:13 am

RE: "CO Hopes Turboprop Planes Ease Newark Congestion"

Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:54 am



Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 93):
QX Costs:

Aircraft: Q400 CR7

Stage Length: 548 548

Seats: 73 70


The QX Q400s have either 74 or 76 seats, with the fleet gradually being converted to the 76 seat configuration.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
highflier92660
Posts: 722
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 2:16 am

RE: "CO Hopes Turboprop Planes Ease Newark Congest

Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:16 pm

The Q400 should be a great fit at EWR with block times competitive with RJs on the typically short routes out of there, let alone the operating cost advantages. What does surprise me are atypical routes where the Q400 is up against regional jets like the ERJ-145XR and there is a notable performance disparity. Note the following:
http://www.flightaware.com/live/flig...2/history/20071211/1837Z/KLAX/KBOI

http://www.flightaware.com/flight/QX...4/history/20071211/1621Z/KLAX/KBOI

Horizon's Q400 is being flown over the highest block fault mountain range in the U.S. and many times being flown north-south paralleling cold fronts coming off of the Pacific and slamming up against the Sierras. It is not a safety issue I'm cartooning in my head but a comfort one for the unsuspecting passengers who thought they booked a plane that sucked-compressed-ignited-exhausted via the pure turbine method. Twenty-two thousand feet on a trip from LAX to BOI through frontal systems doesn't cut it; the half hour additional flight time only adds insult to injury for the pax who thought they would be fllying in the wild BLUE yonder with a "real" jet.

If Horizon were very candid the P.A.'s would sound something like: "Good morning from the flight deck. We're level at 22,000 thousand feet because we can't get much higher in this thing. Presently we're over the crest of the Sierras close to where Steve Fossett disappeared. I'm keeping the seat belt light on because that's some pretty good mountain wave action going on there. If ya' all hear some banging sounds it's just ice shedding off the 'ol props against the fuselage. And if the wing leading edge gets too white looking, you just send a note up with flight attendants Cindy and Melissa and we'll just toggle the 'ol deicers and get it right off. Hang-on tight and thanks for flying Horizon."

[Edited 2007-12-13 07:18:18]
 
JoeCanuck
Posts: 4704
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:30 am

RE: "CO Hopes Turboprop Planes Ease Newark Congestion"

Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:40 pm



Quoting Highflier92660 (Reply 98):

They do seem to be pretty popular, though...I think by now the passengers would have gotten the idea that they might not be flying on a pure jet...and those big thingies on the front of the engines also provide another vital clue...
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