Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
BigTom
Topic Author
Posts: 516
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 6:51 pm

Air India Confirms MUC As European Hub

Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:03 am

Just seen reports that Air India have chosen MUC as their European hub ...


AI confirms Munich as hub

Quote:
Air India has, following, prolonged deliberations, confirmed Munich as its European hub D Kishore, Commercial Manager (Western India) told TravelBiz Monitor that the carrier had zeroed in on Munich International Airport. The Munich international airport has offered better incentives to Air India, which includes 40 per cent of its parking allocations at its Terminal 2 (space for up to 30 aircraft) for India's national carrier and lounge facility for its passengers.

Cheers
 
Nimish
Posts: 2969
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 6:46 pm

RE: Air India Confirms MUC As European Hub

Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:33 am

Good news - and great going for AI. Now let's hope they come up with a proper scissors hub strategy at MUC, and not a hotch potch bunch of flights spread out throughout the day!
Incredible India!
 
cricket
Posts: 2115
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:23 pm

RE: Air India Confirms MUC As European Hub

Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:42 am



Quoting Nimish (Reply 1):
Good news - and great going for AI. Now let's hope they come up with a proper scissors hub strategy at MUC, and not a hotch potch bunch of flights spread out throughout the day!

I really thought they would choose VIE, MUC is fairly close to capacity, but I guess MUC would give great connectivity!
been there, flown that
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4102
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: Air India Confirms MUC As European Hub

Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:54 am



Quoting Nimish (Reply 1):
a proper scissors hub

Such a strategy is heavily dependent on the on time performance of all flights involved, and let that now be exactly not be this airline's strongest point...

Is AI to transfer most transatlantic flights to MUC then?
 
karan69
Posts: 2729
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 7:57 pm

RE: Air India Confirms MUC As European Hub

Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:15 pm

First of all great news and a step possibly in the right direction

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 3):
Such a strategy is heavily dependent on the on time performance of all flights involved,

Thats true, i am surprised they did not negotiate delays in their incentives, something like 2 delays a day allowed

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 3):
Is AI to transfer most transatlantic flights to MUC then?

Yes, it seems they have already asked for a slot to operate India-MUC-JFK and ORD, i guess possibly ending the LHR transatlantic service

Karan
 
cricket
Posts: 2115
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:23 pm

RE: Air India Confirms MUC As European Hub

Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:44 pm



Quoting Karan69 (Reply 4):
Yes, it seems they have already asked for a slot to operate India-MUC-JFK and ORD, i guess possibly ending the LHR transatlantic service

Karan

I guess AI 101/102 will stay but the DEL service might go via MUC now.
been there, flown that
 
Fly2CHC
Posts: 443
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 10:35 pm

RE: Air India Confirms MUC As European Hub

Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:45 pm

So I guess they will be moving their FRA-LAX flights to MUC?
 
adicool
Posts: 170
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 8:38 am

RE: Air India Confirms MUC As European Hub

Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:42 pm

Also makes sense since AI will join *A sooner or later...VIE doesn't offer that many *A-destinations that could be served by code-share
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14617
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: Air India Confirms MUC As European Hub

Mon Dec 10, 2007 3:32 pm



Quoting Karan69 (Reply 4):

Yes, it seems they have already asked for a slot to operate India-MUC-JFK and ORD, i guess possibly ending the LHR transatlantic service

That should help those flights a fair amount even notwithstanding possible cooperation with LH/*A Membership. They're going from more than 20 daily flights NYC-LHR to 2 NYC-MUC, and 11 daily flights ORD-LHR to 2 ORD-MUC... there's clearly a larger market from the U.S. to London than to Munich, but it's still a better competitive environment for AI.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
BCA2005
Posts: 177
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2005 6:56 am

RE: Air India Confirms MUC As European Hub

Mon Dec 10, 2007 3:57 pm

Do you think they may reconsider DEL-JFK nonstop, in favour of DEL-MUC-JFK? BOM-JFK nonstop is apparently not performing that well. DEL-MUC-JFK, BOM-MUC-ORD would be a good start. Other possible routes that may work:
BLR-MUC-SFO
MAA-MUC-LAX
AMD-MUC-EWR
HYD-MUC-IAD
ATQ-MUC-YVR
 
User avatar
Flying Belgian
Posts: 1958
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 12:45 am

RE: Air India Confirms MUC As European Hub

Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:34 pm

Really seems like a Jet Airways copy-paste move from AI.

Since they were traditionally well established in the UK for their India-US flights, I quite curious to see if MUC will bring them some good volumes in terms of ex-MUC passengers.

BRU has a good potential in that view, not sure about MUC...

FB.
Life is great at 41.000 feet...
 
iahflyer
Posts: 249
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 11:34 pm

RE: Air India Confirms MUC As European Hub

Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:47 pm

How will srevice like this compete with AA's, CO's and other carriers Non-stops to the subcontinat?
Little airports with the big jets are the best!! Floyd
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18243
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Air India Confirms MUC As European Hub

Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:53 pm

I assume they will partner with LH on these flights?
I don't take responsibility at all
 
LAXDESI
Posts: 2775
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 8:13 am

RE: Air India Confirms MUC As European Hub

Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:05 pm

Air-India set to get Star Alliance tag on Dec 13.
http://www.business-standard.com/com...mnu1&subLeft=1&autono=307026&tab=r

Quotes:
The announcement of Air-India’s induction into the Star Alliance, which has 17 airlines as members and one of the oldest and the largest airline alliances, is likely to be made on December 13 in Beijing. Air China will be the other airline which will join the alliance, said an Air-India executive, who did not want to be named.
 
PavlovsDog
Posts: 561
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 3:28 am

RE: Air India Confirms MUC As European Hub

Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:10 pm

While Munich seemed to be the obvious choice a better long-term option might have been Berlin. They could have established themselves as the long-haul market leader when BBI opened and helped Star develop a hub there.
 
SailorOrion
Posts: 1960
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2001 5:56 pm

RE: Air India Confirms MUC As European Hub

Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:42 pm

MUC provides the most extensive European Star-feeder network that you can find. This is why MUC appears to be a logical solution. Not only do you get world-class facilities that are able to handle the load, you also can get additional passengers onto your flights. Star Alliance has no interest whatsoever in building a hub @ SXF, apart from the fact that SXF will not put the new terminal online for at least another four years. AI wanted the hub now.

One should have a look at the traffic (i.e. passenger) figures of airports. MUC isn't on par with airports like BRU or SXF. MUC is on par with airports like SFO, NRT and SIN.

SailorOrion

[Edited 2007-12-10 11:49:07]
 
Rockinflyer
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:32 pm

RE: Air India Confirms MUC As European Hub

Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:05 pm

I'm glad AI is switching LAX service to go thru MUC. We have enough options to FRA. VIE might have worked well to, but my guess would be that there are alot more options at MUC. I wonder if they'll try nonstops to India in the next year or so from LAX.  scratchchin 
AA,AC,AF,BA,BN,BW,CO,DL,FL,F9,HA,KL,NA,PA,RW,TW,UA,WA,WN
 
LHRBlueSkies
Posts: 321
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:23 am

RE: Air India Confirms MUC As European Hub

Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:45 pm

Personally, I can't see them stopping their services to LHR - too valuable.

Maybe more flights to LHR from india, and maybe different destinations to the US from LHR?

Thoughts?
flying is the safest form of transport - until humans get involved!
 
Rockinflyer
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:32 pm

RE: Air India Confirms MUC As European Hub

Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:11 pm

I can't imagine any west coast service to LHR on AI. I mean they could try, of course, but like FRA, LHR is pretty much covered from SEA/SFO/LAX. I suggest AI set their sights on nonstops to India from LAX as far as additional west coast service goes. Maybe add SFO down the road too.
AA,AC,AF,BA,BN,BW,CO,DL,FL,F9,HA,KL,NA,PA,RW,TW,UA,WA,WN
 
cakentennis
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2007 7:41 pm

RE: Air India Confirms MUC As European Hub

Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:15 pm



Quoting LHRBlueSkies (Reply 17):
Maybe more flights to LHR from india, and maybe different destinations to the US from LHR?

If they do end up clearing some slots at LHR, they could start an AMD-LHR-ORD service. This would be a gold mine for any airline.
 
Rockinflyer
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:32 pm

RE: Air India Confirms MUC As European Hub

Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:26 pm



Quoting Cakentennis (Reply 19):
If they do end up clearing some slots at LHR, they could start an AMD-LHR-ORD service. This would be a gold mine for any airline.

Now thats a good idea! Does AI serve IAD? Another good place for them to start if not.
AA,AC,AF,BA,BN,BW,CO,DL,FL,F9,HA,KL,NA,PA,RW,TW,UA,WA,WN
 
Gr8Circle
Posts: 2637
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:44 am

RE: Air India Confirms MUC As European Hub

Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:32 pm



Quoting Rockinflyer (Reply 20):
f they do end up clearing some slots at LHR, they could start an AMD-LHR-ORD service. This would be a gold mine for any airline.

Now thats a good idea! Does AI serve IAD? Another good place for them to start if not.

Is AI allowed to use their flying rights from LHR to USA to operate to any US city of their choice...? Is there any restriction...?
 
cakentennis
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2007 7:41 pm

RE: Air India Confirms MUC As European Hub

Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:50 am



Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 21):
Is AI allowed to use their flying rights from LHR to USA to operate to any US city of their choice...? Is there any restriction...?

Not sure about IAD, but ORD shouldn't be a problem for AI, they already have a LHR-ORD service in place. Couldn't they route the flight to originate at AMD ?
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: Air India Confirms MUC As European Hub

Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:45 am

Maybe I'm completely missing why this is of any value to anyone whatsover.

AI has tens of 7800nm+ widebodies on order, and MUC is a major facility for LH. Why would AI want to hub any flights at all in Europe instead of offering them nonstop, and why would LH want AI hubbing flights at their second biggest airport?

I mean are we talking AI flying MUC to every city in India that they can, then feeding all short-haul LH connectivity they can muster onto those flights? Then sure, that sounds great.

Or, are we talking about India-MUC-United States flights hubbing there? If that is the case, a large fleet of 777-300ERs, 777-200LRs, and a host of 787s just doesn't make sense. Aggregate all of your Indian subcontinent feeder traffic at BOM or DEL then fly from there.

I just can't imagine LH wanting to feed a MUC-SFO or MUC-LAX flight on AI. It is antithetical to any logical business model. Just no sense at all.

NS
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26286
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Air India Confirms MUC As European Hub

Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:05 am



Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 21):
Is AI allowed to use their flying rights from LHR to USA to operate to any US city of their choice...? Is there any restriction...?

Given that India, the U.K., and the U.S. will all have Open Skies with each other come March 2008, there will be no limits.
a.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18243
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Air India Confirms MUC As European Hub

Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:40 am



Quoting Gigneil (Reply 23):
Or, are we talking about India-MUC-United States flights hubbing there? If that is the case, a large fleet of 777-300ERs, 777-200LRs, and a host of 787s just doesn't make sense. Aggregate all of your Indian subcontinent feeder traffic at BOM or DEL then fly from there.

I agree, but I think it's a 9W copycat move, not that 9W's idea at BRU is any better.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26286
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Air India Confirms MUC As European Hub

Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:43 am



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 25):
I agree, but I think it's a 9W copycat move, not that 9W's idea at BRU is any better.

9W's move is risky, but I think it will work unless we see a dramatic shift to non-stops from the U.S. We've started seeing that though, so...
a.
 
User avatar
OA412
Moderator
Posts: 4795
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2000 6:22 am

RE: Air India Confirms MUC As European Hub

Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:44 am



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 25):
Quoting Gigneil (Reply 23):
Or, are we talking about India-MUC-United States flights hubbing there? If that is the case, a large fleet of 777-300ERs, 777-200LRs, and a host of 787s just doesn't make sense. Aggregate all of your Indian subcontinent feeder traffic at BOM or DEL then fly from there.

I agree, but I think it's a 9W copycat move, not that 9W's idea at BRU is any better.

Agree on both counts. Time and again, markets have shown that nonstop flights are preferred over 1 stop options. I just don't see the advantage of having to stop over in MUC (or BRU in the case of 9W) especially from NYC and ORD when I can fly an airline that will get me there nonstop.
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
karan69
Posts: 2729
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 7:57 pm

RE: Air India Confirms MUC As European Hub

Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:47 am



Quoting BCA2005 (Reply 9):
Do you think they may reconsider DEL-JFK nonstop

Already loaded,

eff. feb 08.

AI101 New Delhi New York-Kennedy 0030 0545 77L 0
AI102 New York-Kennedy New Delhi 1600 1630+1 77L 0

Karan
 
LAXDESI
Posts: 2775
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 8:13 am

RE: Air India Confirms MUC As European Hub

Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:08 am



Quoting Gigneil (Reply 23):
Or, are we talking about India-MUC-United States flights hubbing there? If that is the case, a large fleet of 777-300ERs, 777-200LRs, and a host of 787s just doesn't make sense. Aggregate all of your Indian subcontinent feeder traffic at BOM or DEL then fly from there.

AI's plan is to use MUC as a scissor hub and create a large number of India-USA city-pairs. With five cities on each side, AI can offer 25 city-pair one-stop connections via MUC with about 12 aircrafts.

Aggregating feeder traffic at BOM/DEL is not currently possible due to lack of capacity at both airports. Moreover, passengers would have to do immigration/customs at BOM/DEL, which IMO is a deal breaker for most.

AI does offer BOM-JFK non-stop, and will start DEL-JFK non-stop from Feb. 2008. Non-stops between the following city pairs on a B772/B773 or A345 are likely to be successful due to large O&D markets.
BOM-JFK/EWR
DEL-JFK/EWR
BLR-SFO
BOM-ORD

The following city-pairs may be viable for non-stop flights on a daily B787 or A350, or 4x weekly on 772/345:
BOM-LAX
DEL-LAX
MAA-SFO
HYD-SFO
AMD-ORD
BOM/DEL-IAD/IAH
 
LAXDESI
Posts: 2775
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 8:13 am

RE: Air India Confirms MUC As European Hub

Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:30 am

Quoting Karan69 (Reply 28):
AI101 New Delhi New York-Kennedy 0030 0545 77L 0
AI102 New York-Kennedy New Delhi 1600 1630+1 77L 0

DEL-JFK works out to about 15 hour flight, and JFK-DEL is a14 hour flight. This saves about 4-6 hours over what the competition--BA,VS,LH,9W-- has to offer on their one-stop flights.

Timings are convenient on both sides to make onward connections. Best wishes to AI.

[Edited 2007-12-10 21:02:17]
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18243
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Air India Confirms MUC As European Hub

Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:55 am



Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 29):
With five cities on each side, AI can offer 25 city-pair one-stop connections via MUC with about 12 aircrafts.

LH already offers at least triple that just up the road at FRA, and they're in the same alliance. Should be interesting to see how this pans out...

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 26):
I think it will work unless we see a dramatic shift to non-stops from the U.S

As I've said before a hub will fail unless it can access the local market, so if they can partner properly with SN or AI with LH (or whomever), it may have a chance. Otherwise I've never seen a scissor hub that worked or lasted.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
LAXDESI
Posts: 2775
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 8:13 am

RE: Air India Confirms MUC As European Hub

Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:15 am



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 31):
LH already offers at least triple that just up the road at FRA, and they're in the same alliance

True. However, LH caters to a different market with fares about 20-30% higher than that of AI.
 
Blr2Syr
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 4:37 pm

RE: Air India Confirms MUC As European Hub

Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:38 am

MUC should be used to develop newer markets. MUC can be used as a scissors for aggregating flights to houston, seattle Washington , where in 1 daily India flight is possible but not more than one.

I would easily see this as reality on India side
7x BLR-MUC
7x HYD-MUC
7x MAA-MUC
7x BOM-MUC
7x DEL-MUC

Emerging Markets
4x AMD-MUC
4x CCU-MUC
4x Amristar-MUC
7x Kerala-MUC


On the USA side
14x NYC - EWR/JFK
7x LAX
7x Chicago

4x Washington
4x DFW/ Houston
4x Seattle

The 4x markets could later be developed to daily if things go well . Btw does AI have any rights on the MUC-USA route?
What are AI's plans to its existing Frankfurt-USA rights? They could strike up with LH on that.

Also is this the end of AI's flag ship route BOM-LHR-JFK or would AI symbolically keep LHR Base ? How is MUC with delays when compared to LHR? I assume moving to MUC would ease that up a bit.
 
elmothehobo
Posts: 985
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:10 am

RE: Air India Confirms MUC As European Hub

Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:26 am



Quoting Blr2Syr (Reply 33):
Btw does AI have any rights on the MUC-USA route?

When March 28, 2008 comes around it won't matter, as all three states involved will have open skies, though when India and the United States established open skies, it gave Air India the right to fly via Germany if (and I believed the United States did have) Open Skies was in effect.
 
icna05e
Posts: 131
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:11 pm

RE: Air India Confirms MUC As European Hub

Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:16 am

What is AI's aim: use the spare capacity between LH's banks or add flights during these peak times to be somewhat backed by an existing hub?

How many daily banks are operated by LH at MUC?
 
columba
Posts: 5238
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:12 pm

RE: Air India Confirms MUC As European Hub

Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:20 am

Good news. AI will join Star Alliance soon and FRA is overcrowded so it makes sense to choose Lufthansa´s second hub as their European hub. Also the area around Munich is very interesting for people from India -not only tourists -but business passengers, too since you will find most high technology companies in this area.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
retrolivery
Posts: 145
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 7:43 am

RE: Air India Confirms MUC As European Hub

Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:26 am

When does AI intend to star shifting flights to MUC? I am scheduled on AI 112/111 JFK-LHR-JFK departing on January 31st and returning May 24th. Is there the chance that my flights will be rebooked or rerouted? Or does AI intend on maintaining their LHR services ex. USA?
A3, AA, AC, AI, AK, AM, AP, AZ, B6, BA, CO, DL, EK, EY, FL, FI, FR, KL, KM, LH, MA, MH, MS, OA, OK, OS, SR, TA, TG, U2,
 
Nimish
Posts: 2969
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 6:46 pm

RE: Air India Confirms MUC As European Hub

Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:23 am



Quoting Gigneil (Reply 23):
Aggregate all of your Indian subcontinent feeder traffic at BOM or DEL then fly from there.

Not possible until the airports at BOM & DEL ar completely redone - until then folks shudder at the thought of connecting at these 2 cities.

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 23):
I just can't imagine LH wanting to feed a MUC-SFO or MUC-LAX flight on AI. It is antithetical to any logical business model. Just no sense at all.

Well - they already do on the services ex-FRA to LAX and to India (BOM/BLR). Plus the assumption is that once AI actually starts services via MUC - it would all be at least code shared with LH, maybe even a revenue sharing. AI can provide connectivity to cities in India where LH does not connect to (from MUC), and can add loads to LH's MUC-North America and South America flights.

Quoting Icna05e (Reply 35):
What is AI's aim: use the spare capacity between LH's banks or add flights during these peak times to be somewhat backed by an existing hub?

AI typically is not the best run airline around - and they're severely bound by the inefficiency and apathy of their staff - so strategy and AI are unfortunately almost an oxymoron. That being said, I would think they would add to the peak times and utilize the existing LH flight banks.

Quoting Retrolivery (Reply 37):
When does AI intend to star shifting flights to MUC?

Don't hold your breath! As mentioned earlier - AI tends to be a bit haphazard in their ops. Don't expect anything close to the clockwork precision seen with 9W @ BRU
Incredible India!
 
flyguy1
Posts: 1715
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 1999 9:45 am

RE: Air India Confirms MUC As European Hub

Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:22 am

Be interesting to see, if AI keep LHR-JFK. This would make 3x per day into JFK, and with MUC, maybe 4?
727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
 
Blr2Syr
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 4:37 pm

RE: Air India Confirms MUC As European Hub

Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:39 am

Hopefully the German hub will make AI follow the German sense of time . Clearly 10 hour delays are not acceptable !!!!

Btw will MUC also mean the end of Paris-EWR route ? I really dont see many ppl flying the India- Paris route on AI.
 
SailorOrion
Posts: 1960
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2001 5:56 pm

RE: Air India Confirms MUC As European Hub

Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:17 am



Quoting Icna05e (Reply 35):

How many daily banks are operated by LH at MUC?

Eight; each of which basically lasts two hours. There are three banks which are at capacity (those at 0900, 1100 and 1900). I'm guessing the AI flights will fit into the 1300 bank (westbound) and the 1700 (eastbound), both far from full capacity. Using these banks would offer convenient times to all involved. Using these banks would also allow LH to strengthen them and offer more frequency to smaller airports.

SailorOrion
 
User avatar
Aisak
Posts: 933
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:56 pm

RE: Air India Confirms MUC As European Hub

Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:26 am



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 31):
As I've said before a hub will fail unless it can access the local market, so if they can partner properly with SN or AI with LH (or whomever), it may have a chance. Otherwise I've never seen a scissor hub that worked or lasted.

Isn't NRT a scissor hub for both UA and NW? It seems it's lasting long enough. UA might have NH feed but NW as no "local market".

Also Australia-LAX-JFK on Qantas... It's a sort of degenerated scissor hub and it's not they have no local market (which they have thanks to AA) but they have no local rights. But they have increased the LAX-JFK tag-on from 5x weekly to daily if i'm not mistaken.
 
icna05e
Posts: 131
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:11 pm

RE: Air India Confirms MUC As European Hub

Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:47 am



Quoting SailorOrion (Reply 41):
Eight; each of which basically lasts two hours.

Thanks for the precise answer. It may skid off-topic but where are the 3 banks you didn't mention? 0700, 1500 and 2100? That's a lot, it almost looks like a continuous operation...
1300 westboud and 1700 eastbound do make sense, especially if there is ground capacity left at those times.
 
SailorOrion
Posts: 1960
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2001 5:56 pm

RE: Air India Confirms MUC As European Hub

Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:36 pm

The 8 banks are indeed 0700, 0900, 1100, 1300, 1500, 1700, 1900 and 2100. The first and last wave are smaller, the 1300 and 1700 really small  Smile

However, my assumption was incorrect. Currently the times are apparently as such:

DEL - 06:45 - MUC - 08:20 - JFK (B777)
BOM - 06:30 - MUC - 08:20 - ORD (B747)
JFK - 07:15 - MUC - 08:35 - DEL (B777)
ORD - 06:40 - MUC - 08:30 - BOM (B747)

Times local to MUC

SailorOrion
 
Avianca
Posts: 5375
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

RE: Air India Confirms MUC As European Hub

Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:25 am

really great news!!! when will the ops starting?

regards
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
vincewy
Posts: 533
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 8:32 am

RE: Air India Confirms MUC As European Hub

Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:11 pm



Quoting LHRBlueSkies (Reply 17):
Personally, I can't see them stopping their services to LHR - too valuable.

Maybe more flights to LHR from india, and maybe different destinations to the US from LHR?

Thoughts?

Any possibility that AI will just turn this trip (technically 2 slots required at LHR) into 2 daily flights to India?
 
mk777
Posts: 888
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:48 am

RE: Air India Confirms MUC As European Hub

Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:29 pm



Quoting Karan69 (Reply 28):

Already loaded,

eff. feb 08.

AI101 New Delhi New York-Kennedy 0030 0545 77L 0
AI102 New York-Kennedy New Delhi 1600 1630+1 77L 0

Karan

Wow, another flight, yet again to JFK...why can't AI think out of the box for once...I would think that DEL-IAD or ORD would have been more fruitful considering their BOM-JFK non-stop is not doing so well, but AI still flies non-stop to JFK. I still think AI should reconsider this flight and route it to Chicago or Washington DC.

I understand choosing MUC as a hub, joining *A and currently LH only serves DEL via its MUC hub (don't know if BOM has commenced yet), so AI can take over these routes eastbound, but what about N. America, LH serves most cities (atleast the important ones, which AI would want to fly too, as well!!) with double dailies (one from FRA and one from MUC) and in the summer with triple dailies, so how will AI fill its planes beyond MUC is a mystery to me unless LH decides to let AI take over a few routes going westbound.

IMO, AI should continue the ATQ-DEL-LHR-JFK flight on a daily basis. AI 101/102 should be made into a DEL-ORD/IAD non-stop and when more 772LR's come in, ORD and IAD should both be non-stop (can be from DEL, BOM, AMD, BLR, HYD or CCU) and flights to EWR, LAX should be re-routed via MUC besides starting new ops from there. Atleast this way, AI will appear more organized than what it is now on its European and N. American operations. As for middle-east, Africa and South East asia, its a totally different story.

One last thing-Does AI plan to fly to Australia, New Zealand int he near future??
come fly with me
 
OHLHD
Posts: 2903
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 6:02 am

RE: Air India Confirms MUC As European Hub

Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:38 pm

I guess it is a big blow for VIE but they do not offer gates and this is what I guess makes the difference. They only have 8 international airbridge gates and shifting OS,EK,RJ,QR,BA,DL etc etc to busgates is a no way solution.

Good for MUC and Air India bad for VIE.  Smile

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos