TWA1985
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Northwest Orient Bar's On DC-10's & 747's

Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:09 pm

Hello to Everyone,

It has been a few months since my last post, so I thought I better get the ball rolling again.

Anyhow, I just received three Northwest Orient Seating Arrangements; one for the DC-10, another of the 747, and the last one is the 757.

I was not really surprised to see the bar area in first class on the 747, because many carriers had and still might have that little table-like area (Someone correct me if I am wrong).

But it was the DC-10 that really got me. There was a nice size bar at the front of first class that took up the width of the entire center bulk-head. It seemed to be larger than the bar on the 747.

My Dad remembers flying from MSP to NYC on a NW DC-10 in FC and he says that the bar was stocked with glasses, ice, various types of liquor and snacks. A flight attendant doubled as FA and "bar tender."

But, I am sure we all can agree that these bar's had nothing on the CO DC-10 Pubs. Those included stools, couched, and a real "bar tender." The lounge was actually a separate room, a great atmosphere that both FC and YC could enjoy.

Anyhow, post your thoughts, memories, etc.


Thanks,

TWA1985
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varig md-11
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RE: Northwest Orient Bar's On DC-10's & 747's

Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:19 pm

nice post
my thoughts are that it must have been cool and classy to fly on a plane with a bar : for long hauls that's a change of nowadays PTV for 10 hours

the really nice thing would be to combine on a flight PTV and bar! though the bar is to be used in a moderate way of course.

nevertheless, with how things are going, we go the reverse way : when you see people should pay for checking in now on some airlines....

maybe next step will be to pay 99 cents to be allowed to talk to a FA, follow my eyes to Cryanair and cheapojet
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TWA1985
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RE: Northwest Orient Bar's On DC-10's & 747's

Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:04 pm

I would also like to point out that these seating arrangements are from 1985 and 1986.

Also, I believe the CO Pubs were in full swing during that same time period.

TWA1985
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1stfl94
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RE: Northwest Orient Bar's On DC-10's & 747's

Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:31 pm



Quoting Varig md-11 (Reply 1):
the really nice thing would be to combine on a flight PTV and bar! though the bar is to be used in a moderate way of course.

Virgin have been doing that for over 10 years in Upper Class
 
varig md-11
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RE: Northwest Orient Bar's On DC-10's & 747's

Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:39 pm



Quoting 1stfl94 (Reply 3):
Virgin have been doing that for over 10 years in Upper Class

sorry, VS is not flying from my country (yet?)
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jetjack74
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RE: Northwest Orient Bar's On DC-10's & 747's

Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:57 pm

The bars on the 747 & DC10 aircraft were part of NWA's World Class Service(tm) which pare'd down over the 1980's. The skybars started to disappear on the DC10's around the 1980 timeframe when the fwd gallies were installed at the centre bulkhead. all of the F class was served from the door 2 galley area which was larger than it was during the last 20 years of the DC10's lifetime in NWA's service. The 747's skybars hung around abit longer since they were deployed on the long US-Asia routes. They began to go around the time of the merger with RC when the VTR video system was first introduced along with the installation of the crew rest area that was located in the center section between doors 1 & 2 which was part f the extended-duty rest requirements for the flight attendants. The skybars were aslo removed to accommodate additional seating on the main deck, zone A cabin.
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spacecadet
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RE: Northwest Orient Bar's On DC-10's & 747's

Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:16 pm

United had something similar on their DC-10's, IIRC. When I was eight years old, I had an engine go out on a DC-10 I was traveling alone on, and they put me on another flight up in first class. I remember the bar, and I remember the seating arrangement was basically lounge-like. There were regular seats on the sides, but the middle had card tables, swivel chairs, etc.

It was an overnight flight so there was no actual bartender and me and a little girl who was also alone on the same flight I was on were the only passengers. But I remember the F/A going back behind the bar for snacks and drinks for us all night. (I really don't think it was just a galley, although I admit it has been close to 30 years so my memory might not be 100% reliable.)
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doug_or
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RE: Northwest Orient Bar's On DC-10's & 747's

Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:37 pm

My 1989 airline seating guide shows bars for PA 747 (except SA configuration), CO 747 and DC-10. UA and NW appear to have had them removed.
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EWRCabincrew
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RE: Northwest Orient Bar's On DC-10's & 747's

Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:46 pm



Quoting Doug_Or (Reply 7):
CO 747 and DC-10.

CO had a bar (pub) on the DC-10-10 only. The 747s in the late 80s/early 90s (till they left the fleet) did not.
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DAYflyer
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RE: Northwest Orient Bar's On DC-10's & 747's

Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:13 pm

I can remeber flying on the 747 with the bar. It was great!
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doug_or
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RE: Northwest Orient Bar's On DC-10's & 747's

Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:24 pm



Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 8):
. The 747s in the late 80s/early 90s (till they left the fleet) did not.

Interesting. The guide shows a bar between row 3, forward of the F/C closet.
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spacecadet
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RE: Northwest Orient Bar's On DC-10's & 747's

Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:58 pm

btw in hunting around for info on the bar i mentioned on United earlier, I discovered that United used to have a bar and lounge in *coach* on at least some DC-10's!

http://www.pbase.com/airlinerphotos/image/44043036

That looks sort of like what I'm remembering, although I was definitely in first class (I remember looking backwards at the bar) and I thought I remembered swivel chairs. It does look like there's a card table in the front of the center section, though, so maybe I'm wrong on the chairs.
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EWRCabincrew
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RE: Northwest Orient Bar's On DC-10's & 747's

Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:14 pm



Quoting Doug_Or (Reply 10):
Interesting. The guide shows a bar between row 3, forward of the F/C closet.

There was a closet in the nose. The bar wasn't as much a bar as it was a credenza. We never used it as a bar. Carriers were there for storage for inflight items and/or service. The flat surface area was where things like flowers went (mind you the credenza was not big at all).It was never marketed as a bar, like NW apparently did.

The DC-10-30s had a credenza as well. 4 carts were stored there. It was never marketed as a bar, either.
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jetjack74
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RE: Northwest Orient Bar's On DC-10's & 747's

Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:04 am

We actually still have a bar per se on the 747-400 just aft of 1R. It's where our beverage and predeparture supply carts are slotted. it's not very big, but leave an ice bucket up there and serve off of it between services. We also still have a credenza in front of 6D and G for magazine storage and the midflight snack basket.
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eghansen
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RE: Northwest Orient Bar's On DC-10's & 747's

Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:38 am



Quoting TWA1985 (Reply 2):
Also, I believe the CO Pubs were in full swing during that same time period.

I worked for Continental from March 1986 on, and there were no bars by that time on any of our planes. Frank Lorenzo had begun his campaign to turn Continental into a low-cost low-fare airline.
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TWA1985
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RE: Northwest Orient Bar's On DC-10's & 747's

Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:14 am



Quoting Eghansen (Reply 14):
I worked for Continental from March 1986 on, and there were no bars by that time on any of our planes. Frank Lorenzo had begun his campaign to turn Continental into a low-cost low-fare airline.

That is strange. Are you sure?

I have a Chicago Sun Times Article from 1986 that talks about the pub on a DC-10 flight from ORD-DEN.

Infact, many people I have talked to remember the pubs into the 90's.

TWA1985
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AirlineBrat
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RE: Northwest Orient Bar's On DC-10's & 747's

Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:48 am



Quoting Spacecadet (Reply 11):
btw in hunting around for info on the bar i mentioned on United earlier, I discovered that United used to have a bar and lounge in *coach* on at least some DC-10's!

AFAIK, UA had the Y class bars on all the DC-10's and 747'a during the mid 1970's. They were located over the wing. I remember sitting in one of the swivel chairs located near the window when I was a kid. Of course I made the chair swivel until I was told to stop it  Wink On the 747's, there was a lounge upstairs for first class passengers. My dad would let me sit up there for 5 minutes or so then we had to go downstairs. We were flying on employee passes and I had to be on my best behavior.........
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diamond
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RE: Northwest Orient Bar's On DC-10's & 747's

Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:07 am

A bit off-topic (re: NW), but I found a few nice photos of in-flight 747 lounges:







Blank.
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: Northwest Orient Bar's On DC-10's & 747's

Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:40 pm



Quoting Eghansen (Reply 14):
I worked for Continental from March 1986 on, and there were no bars by that time on any of our planes.

We had the Pub on our DC-10-10 aircraft. I worked these flights all too often (great flights, indeed).

Quoting Diamond (Reply 17):
A bit off-topic (re: NW), but I found a few nice photos of in-flight 747 lounges:

Too bad economics have taken over and these are truly relics (in-flight bars, that is).
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eghansen
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RE: Northwest Orient Bar's On DC-10's & 747's

Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:28 am



Quoting TWA1985 (Reply 15):
That is strange. Are you sure?

I have a Chicago Sun Times Article from 1986 that talks about the pub on a DC-10 flight from ORD-DEN.

Infact, many people I have talked to remember the pubs into the 90's.

I am pretty sure. The newspapers are not very accurate about aviation. The problem was not only space, but when Continental merged with Frontier and People Express, the flight attendants were pared down to the FAA minimum of one per 50 seats. There was nobody to staff the bars.

Also, where I worked (IAH) we no longer had a DC10-10's running through that station. We had one DC10-30 to London which was three classes without a bar and a daily A300 which ran LAX-IAH-MIA-IAH-LAX without a bar. Sometimes we had an A300 which ran EWR-IAH-MEX-IAH-EWR. As far as I know, all the DC10-10's were used in the Pacific routes out of LAX and they may have had vestigial bars which were not staffed.

After the Eastern/Continental/Frontier mergers in 1986 and 1987 any frills completely disappeared. The People Express planes did not even have galleys or ovens. The company started losing billions, the stock price collapsed, flights started running 5 hours late, the airline starting removing every other light bulb out of the terminal in IAH. All of which set the stage for the second bankruptcy and Franks' eternal banishment from civil aviation by the FAA.

It is possible that there was a bar left in the 1990's, but by then Continental had only 6 DC10-10's in the whole fleet, so he was lucky to find one.

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 18):
We had the Pub on our DC-10-10 aircraft. I worked these flights all too often (great flights, indeed).

You don't say what years you had bars. I flew non-rev all over the world for three years from 1986-1989 and never saw a single bar. Much of the time after 1987, we did not have hot food either, even in first class.
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Viscount724
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RE: Northwest Orient Bar's On DC-10's & 747's

Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:33 am



Quoting Doug_Or (Reply 7):
My 1989 airline seating guide shows bars for PA 747

I think that was about the tiime when PA also replaced their upper deck 747 lounge with saleable seats. They had kept the lounge longer than most carriers as they used it as a first class dining room (first come, first served). Seated 14 passengers if memory correct.
 
dtw9
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RE: Northwest Orient Bar's On DC-10's & 747's

Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:25 am

This is a nice video about United's DC-10 Freindship with a coach lounge

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ta3Z0XlknPc
 
luv2fly
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RE: Northwest Orient Bar's On DC-10's & 747's

Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:06 am

I believe the pub lasted until the 90's.
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NorthstarBoy
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RE: Northwest Orient Bar's On DC-10's & 747's

Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:11 am

Fwiw, the first 747 i ever flew on, N620US, an ex-NA 747-135 had the upper deck lounge, i remember this because they came over the PA once we leveled off and announced that the upstair lounge was open, along with a reminder that it was for first and business class passengers *only.* That was in June of 1985. Of coure, being one of the unwashed masses in coach, no chance of getting up there. I do remember another member of the group i was traveling with asking if she could go up and see it, and being told "You may see the lounge once we're at the gate in london" in a very snotty manner by said F/A who seemed downright offended that one of these unwashed masses would even want to intrude upon the privacy of the kings and princes in first class.
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TWA1985
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RE: Northwest Orient Bar's On DC-10's & 747's

Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:20 am

Well, according to my June 6, 1985 CO timetable, CO definetly had pub service. Take the ORD-DEN route, of the six (6) flights between Chicago and Denver, four (4) of them were on DC-10's and the timetable said that they all include "Pub Service." Two (2) of those flights also include a "wine tasting," whatever that means.

So the pubs were still in style then I guess.

TWA1985
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QantasHeavy
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RE: Northwest Orient Bar's On DC-10's & 747's

Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:45 pm

Didn't pub service mean they served free beer, or something to that effect... not a sky bar?

Being originally from the US, it always make me laugh when Qantas says "on all city flyer flights after 4pm (although yesterday they said after NOON on a PER-MEL 747) beer and wine is free in economy". So Aussie -- love it!

You would think a QF 767-300ER flying a 55 minute shuttle flight between MEL-SYD would be way under its MTOW... never... it has a few kilotonnes of beer on board. Arrives at the gate with empties.

Seriously, yesterday our 747 could not climb above 38,000 feet on a 2:55 minute flight. According to the captain it was due to being too heavy to climb higher (a PA announcement explaining why we could not climb above some moderate chop caused by a jet stream). I believe they loaded too many pallets of VB, but the miners from Perth in the back were all doing their best to reduce the weight (though transferring it to their bellies).
 
AApilot2b
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RE: Northwest Orient Bar's On DC-10's & 747's

Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:30 pm

Didn't Eastern have some sort of bar in the forward cabin of their L1011s? I can't remember, but it seems like they did. Bars/lounges were definitely more common back then. Apart from VS, it surprises me that there is nothing like that today.
 
TWA1985
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RE: Northwest Orient Bar's On DC-10's & 747's

Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:32 pm



Quoting QantasHeavy (Reply 25):
Didn't pub service mean they served free beer, or something to that effect... not a sky bar?

Nope, it was an actual bar with stools. There were alos several couch areas with little tables. It was like a little room of its own.

Does anyone have a picture? I have an old ad somewhere, but I will have to find it.

Thanks,

TWA1985
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doug_or
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RE: Northwest Orient Bar's On DC-10's & 747's

Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:52 pm



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 20):
I think that was about the tiime when PA also replaced their upper deck 747 lounge with saleable seats. They had kept the lounge longer than most carriers as they used it as a first class dining room (first come, first served). Seated 14 passengers if memory correct.

The guide shows a bar in row 4 of FC on the main deck, but it may have been a phony bar like on SA)">CO, no idea. Upstairs shows 14 for most 747s and 16 for the SA configuration.
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exitrowaisle
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RE: Northwest Orient Bar's On DC-10's & 747's

Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:38 pm

On the website departedflights.com (an excellent site by the way), in the Advertisements section, there is a 1983 ad for the Continental DC-10 Pub showing the bar and seating area. Pretty ornate for a deregulation-era plane. I've seen seating charts that showed the Pub configuration on at least some CO DC-10s as late as 1985, but I doubt they were in place much longer than that, too much space that could be filled with seats!
 
spacecadet
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RE: Northwest Orient Bar's On DC-10's & 747's

Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:18 pm



Quoting TWA1985 (Reply 27):
Nope, it was an actual bar with stools. There were alos several couch areas with little tables. It was like a little room of its own.

Does anyone have a picture? I have an old ad somewhere, but I will have to find it.

This is from an old thread here: http://www.departedflights.com/COpub.html

Pretty amazing. Makes all this talk about bars on the A380 seem quaint.
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