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sibille
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Bad News For Ilyushin Il-96

Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:37 pm

Seems Russian government will abolish duties import for aircrafts with more than 300 seats, opening market to Boeing and Airbus....
Seems to be a bad new for the Russian Il-96 wich try to fight on that market!
http://www.kommersant.com/p834824/Duty_abolish/
 
Sasha
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Bad News For Ilyushin Il-96

Wed Dec 12, 2007 1:20 pm

I am all for it. Would love to see some variety in the skies and not just flying over the huge country.
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ORDagent
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Bad News For Ilyushin Il-96

Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:33 pm

Let's face it. The IL96 is already a generation behind the times. Four engined aircraft, with the exception of the 380/747, falling off of the radar. Look at the 340 series.
 
717-200
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Bad News For Ilyushin Il-96

Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:35 pm

Now only if they could abolish the import duties for aircraft that are 100 seats or more. But then again Bermuda would lose a lot of a/c registration business with Russian Airlines.
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BigOrange
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Bad News For Ilyushin Il-96

Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:47 pm



Quoting 717-200 (Reply 3):
But then again Bermuda would lose a lot of a/c registration business with Russian Airlines.

I think Bermuda can afford it!
 
sh0rtybr0wn
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Bad News For Ilyushin Il-96

Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:55 pm

How soon will Aeroflot be flying A380s?
 
EI321
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RE: Bad News For Ilyushin Il-96

Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:56 pm



Quoting Sh0rtybr0wn (Reply 5):
How soon will Aeroflot be flying A380s?

what has the A380 got to do with the IL96???
 
sevenair
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RE: Bad News For Ilyushin Il-96

Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:03 pm



Quoting EI321 (Reply 6):
what has the A380 got to do with the IL96???

Probably has lower cost base - and would suit some of the longer distance high density routes. Now SU will not have to pay hugh import duties, perhaps they will look at the A380 in greater detail.But in the shorter term, I think they are more likely to select an A330/340. At least until their moden wide bodies arrive from the production line.
 
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Vasu
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RE: Bad News For Ilyushin Il-96

Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:00 pm

I thought they had problems filling the 777s... surely they wouldn't do any better with A380s...?
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Bad News For Ilyushin Il-96

Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:20 pm

Can we expect a big B-747-8i order for SU now?  bigthumbsup 
 
DAYflyer
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RE: Bad News For Ilyushin Il-96

Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:27 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 9):
Can we expect a big B-747-8i order for SU now?

They will obviously have to evaluate all offers, but I think the 777 may have the advantage here.
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LTU932
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RE: Bad News For Ilyushin Il-96

Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:15 pm



Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 10):
They will obviously have to evaluate all offers, but I think the 777 may have the advantage here.

SU already operated the 777, and they couldn't fill them, hence why they returned them back to the lessor.
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
kaitak
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RE: Bad News For Ilyushin Il-96

Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:58 pm

It still has a potential market for airlines whose countries have fallen foul of the US ... IR, RB, Air Koryo, possibly a Venezuelan carrier.

I'm sure, if the investment was there and the will too, it probably wouldn't take TOO much to make it into a very desirable aircraft; it's quite sleek, aerodynamically, has a good fuselage cross section (potential freighter as M1F replacement, for example?), perhaps potential for it to become a twin (depends on ground clearance for a large fan - but doesn't look like it would be a major problem), new cockpit, IFE etc. The incentive is certainly there now to make that happen.
 
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scbriml
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RE: Bad News For Ilyushin Il-96

Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:04 pm

Quoting Vasu (Reply 8):
I thought they had problems filling the 777s...



Quoting LTU932 (Reply 11):
SU already operated the 777, and they couldn't fill them, hence why they returned them back to the lessor.

I'm sure one of our Russian friends will be along soon, but I'm afraid this is one of a.net's enduring myths.

The only problem SU had with the 777 was the challenge of scheduling them as they only had two. Size of the 777 was not an issue.

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[Edited 2007-12-12 11:06:32]
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flipdewaf
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RE: Bad News For Ilyushin Il-96

Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:07 pm



Quoting Kaitak (Reply 12):
perhaps potential for it to become a twin (depends on ground clearance for a large fan - but doesn't look like it would be a major problem)

Doubt that'll happen, it isn't just a case of take 4 small off and stick two big ones on. Is there any other cases of aircraft having their number of engines changed (not A330/340).

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Motorhussy
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RE: Bad News For Ilyushin Il-96

Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:24 pm

What's all this 777 talk? SU's ordered the A350.
come visit the south pacific
 
concentriq
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RE: Bad News For Ilyushin Il-96

Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:02 pm

This abolition of import tariffs might be last nail in the coffin for Russian aviation industry's widebody sector. Now there is no incentive whatsoever for Ilyushin or Tupolev or anyone else to develop high capacity aircraft. One of the strongest points (of many others) in favour of RU aviation industry in todays market, would have to have been cost advantage for domestic carriers. Now that duties are gone (or SIGNIFICANTLY less than before. I do not believe that they would be completely eliminated), the cost advantage factor is less of a factor. Why am i saying these well known axioms? It angers me as an ex-pat, to see that this relative abundance of money RU experiencing right now selling gas and oil at $95/barrel, is NOT being reinvested in domestic economy. Where are new KBs? Where are new Tech parks and scores of qualified engineers??? Sorry for this rant, but this whole "live for today" hindsight economic policy of current gov't is beginning to get really really old.

Quoting SashA (Reply 1):
I am all for it. Would love to see some variety in the skies and not just flying over the huge country.

"2" in economics???  Smile
A. If you dont have a job, you cant pay for the very airplane ticket that lets you enjoy this variety.
B. You can only have a job if "things" are developed or manufactured domestically.
C. Things are not manufactured domestically, if it is easier to import than to make locally.
D. This removal of duties makes it less likely for "you" (metaphorically speaking) to have a job.
------------------------
So variety vs. economic prosperity. Hmmmm. Cant you enjoy variety by traveling abroad? Excluding export of natural resources, what is Russia's current trade deficit? Oh, and "System Analyst" job might not be there tomorrow if significant investments into development sector arent made TODAY.
Mobilis In Mobili
 
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fraspotter
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RE: Bad News For Ilyushin Il-96

Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:10 am



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 9):
Can we expect a big B-747-8i order for SU now? bigthumbsup

Those 748s would look SWEET in the SU color scheme...  drool 
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scbriml
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RE: Bad News For Ilyushin Il-96

Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:08 am



Quoting FRAspotter (Reply 17):
Those 748s would look SWEET in the SU color scheme...

Let's face it, that scheme looks good on any plane. yes 
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
PavlovsDog
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RE: Bad News For Ilyushin Il-96

Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:15 am

I think Ilyushin dropped the ball by not developing the two engineed IL-98 a few years ago. Their reluctance to use Western powerplants is seeminly the big hang-up as they don't have a domestic powerplant capable of economically powering it.

Even now they could always throw a couple of General Electric GEnx or Rolls-Royce Trent 1000 or XWB and they'd have a product that would at least be marginally competive. The aircraft is really heavy though so it would be a struggle even then and that doesn't take into account all the other competive issues.

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