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Adman737
Topic Author
Posts: 48
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 1:06 am

Norfolk, Va Emtpy Gates

Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:12 am

Why are there empty gates at ORF? I saw about 3 empty gates any chances for some new airlines starting service? Is that a waste of money to have the gates empty like that?
 
eghansen
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RE: Norfolk, Va Emtpy Gates

Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:18 am

It can cause problems for the airport if the leasing revenue from the gates drops off enough that the airport cannot make payments on the bonds used to build the gates.

Many airports have empty gates - PIT after US closed its hub is a prime example.
Nowadays, it is hard to tell when the commercials end and real life begins
 
ORDagent
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RE: Norfolk, Va Emtpy Gates

Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:22 pm

IIRC US dropped gates at ORF during one of the routes restructuring. Indy Air also pulled out. ORF does get charters for the military as well. I have family in the Tidewater area and really love ORF. It is easy to navigate and has decent amenities. Before WN came in we would often fly into DCA and drive as the ORF fares were often prohibitively expensive.

Didn't B6 try ORF and pull out?
 
mk777
Posts: 888
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RE: Norfolk, Va Emtpy Gates

Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:11 pm

I guess many people don't mind the drive to RIC and fly from there, especially now that RIC has had major expansion and is wooing LCC's. Infact, the drive from Norfolk to RIC is on I-64, so you don't even have to enter the city of richmond, i would definitely drive to RIC to save some $$. Therefore, i feel ORF would have a hard time wooing LCC's  Smile
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FlyASAGuy2005
Posts: 3965
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RE: Norfolk, Va Emtpy Gates

Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:45 pm



Quoting ORDagent (Reply 2):
IIRC US dropped gates at ORF during one of the routes restructuring. Indy Air also pulled out. ORF does get charters for the military as well.

Even so, most of the charters come into NGU as they have a real nice terminal and 4 full gates with jetways and plenty of space to hard stand.

Quoting Mk777 (Reply 3):
I guess many people don't mind the drive to RIC and fly from there, especially now that RIC has had major expansion and is wooing LCC's. Infact, the drive from Norfolk to RIC is on I-64, so you don't even have to enter the city of richmond, i would definitely drive to RIC to save some $$. Therefore, i feel ORF would have a hard time wooing LCC's

 checkmark  Thanks for the advice!
What gets measured gets done.
 
727LOVER
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RE: Norfolk, Va Emtpy Gates

Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:58 pm

Pardon my ignorance, what is NGU?
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 7886
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RE: Norfolk, Va Emtpy Gates

Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:15 pm

The presence of empty gates at an airport doesn't necessarily say much about the market. It doesn't necessarily mean a market is hurting, suffering from leakage, or on the converse that new airlines are necessarily interested in starting new service.

The number of airlines, flights, passengers, and space requirements will always fluctuate.

Mergers, bankruptcies, and restructurings have caused open gates to appear at certain airports. As another poster says, the US+HP merger resulted in excess gates that were shed in certain markets. The collaspe of Independence Air resulted in others. Other legacies reduced the number of gates during Ch. 11 by renegotiating airport leases and shedding excess space that in different times may have made sense.

Other airports were built for the future and excess gate capacity was planned at the time of construction. There is a fine line between building for future expansion and overbuilding which can result in excessive costs based on the current passenger volumes.

Airline (and A.net) Rumor Rule #1: If there is any open gates/ticket counters/offices at an airport, employees will always speculate about who will be starting new service in that space.
 
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GCT64
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Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:34 pm

RE: Norfolk, Va Emtpy Gates

Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:50 pm



Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 5):
Pardon my ignorance, what is NGU?

KNGU/NGU = Norfolk Naval Station (Chambers Field)
Flown in: A20N,A21N,A30B,A306,A310,A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A346,A359,A388,BA11,BU31,(..56 more types..),VC10,WESX
 
FlyASAGuy2005
Posts: 3965
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:55 am

RE: Norfolk, Va Emtpy Gates

Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:03 pm



Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 5):
Pardon my ignorance, what is NGU?

http://www.airnav.com/airport/KNGU

Where most of the military hops come in. The AMC terminal is located here also.
What gets measured gets done.
 
P3Orion
Posts: 382
Joined: Tue May 30, 2006 10:53 am

RE: Norfolk, Va Emtpy Gates

Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:04 pm



Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 5):
what is NGU

Naval Air Station Norfolk
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ERJ170
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RE: Norfolk, Va Emtpy Gates

Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:11 pm

There are several destinations from ORF that would be good additions:

PVD (E70/CR7)
MCI (E70/CR7)
FLL (CRJ/CR7/E70)
CUN (1x weekly) (E70/CR9)
SAN (737-700)
LAS (E90/737-700/319)
MSY (E70/CR7/CRJ)
RDU (CRJ/ERJ)

But there needs to be an airline that is willing to devote an aircraft to the route.. and the right aircraft as noted above
Aiming High and going far..
 
ORFflyer
Posts: 3142
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2005 2:42 am

RE: Norfolk, Va Emtpy Gates

Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:33 pm



Quoting ORDagent (Reply 2):
ORF does get charters for the military as well

As has been noted - most, if not all of the charters go to the NAS.

Quoting ORDagent (Reply 2):
Didn't B6 try ORF and pull out?

Not yet....  Wink

Quoting Mk777 (Reply 3):
Therefore, i feel ORF would have a hard time wooing LCC's  

ORF has Southwest. I have relatives that fly here or PHF instead of RIC to the cost. It seems one or the other has cheaper fares depending on who answers the phone....  Silly
 
flynavy
Posts: 2179
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2002 1:48 am

RE: Norfolk, Va Emtpy Gates

Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:20 pm



Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 10):
PVD (E70/CR7)
MCI (E70/CR7)
FLL (CRJ/CR7/E70)
CUN (1x weekly) (E70/CR9)
SAN (737-700)
LAS (E90/737-700/319)
MSY (E70/CR7/CRJ)
RDU (CRJ/ERJ)

Based on what data? CUN? You've got to be joking.
Change is: one airline, six continents!
 
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ERJ170
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RE: Norfolk, Va Emtpy Gates

Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:44 pm



Quoting Flynavy (Reply 12):
Based on what data? CUN? You've got to be joking.

Aboslutely not. And I will tell you why. It should be easy to fill a 1x weekly 70 seat aircraft to CUN if the airline is able to hook up with Apple Vacations or the such to offer it. Lots and Lots of places have service for that exact reason and there is no reason why ORF couldn't be the same. You just aren't looking at all possibilities and are only thinking uni-directional. but that's not my fault! I like looking outside the box.. try it sometime.. you might like it.
Aiming High and going far..
 
flynavy
Posts: 2179
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RE: Norfolk, Va Emtpy Gates

Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:51 pm



Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 13):
Aboslutely not. And I will tell you why. It should be easy to fill a 1x weekly 70 seat aircraft to CUN if the airline is able to hook up with Apple Vacations or the such to offer it. Lots and Lots of places have service for that exact reason and there is no reason why ORF couldn't be the same. You just aren't looking at all possibilities and are only thinking uni-directional. but that's not my fault! I like looking outside the box.. try it sometime.. you might like it.

Data? O&D numbers? ORF-LAS already is in operation on WN. ORF-FLL was already tried by Delta and didn't work.
Change is: one airline, six continents!
 
AmtrakGuy
Posts: 372
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RE: Norfolk, Va Emtpy Gates

Sun Dec 16, 2007 7:00 pm

How many gates WN has at ORF? If I remember, two gates. I was under the impression few years ago ORF was doing very well and could like to add more flights.
 
Lexy
Posts: 1492
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:05 am

RE: Norfolk, Va Emtpy Gates

Sun Dec 16, 2007 7:35 pm



Quoting Flynavy (Reply 12):
Based on what data? CUN? You've got to be joking.

My thoughts exactly.

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 10):
RDU (CRJ/ERJ)

Shameless plug for a route that isn't needed eh?
Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
 
PiedmontINT
Posts: 220
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 8:12 am

RE: Norfolk, Va Emtpy Gates

Sun Dec 16, 2007 7:56 pm



Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 10):
RDU (CRJ/ERJ)

This puzzles me as well. It's maybe a 2.5 - 3 hr drive at the most..
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 5354
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:17 am

RE: Norfolk, Va Emtpy Gates

Sun Dec 16, 2007 10:26 pm



Quoting Mk777 (Reply 3):
I guess many people don't mind the drive to RIC and fly from there, especially now that RIC has had major expansion and is wooing LCC's. Infact, the drive from Norfolk to RIC is on I-64, so you don't even have to enter the city of richmond, i would definitely drive to RIC to save some $$. Therefore, i feel ORF would have a hard time wooing LCC's

when we fly up there(family) we go to PHF or RIC because most of the time it is just a fast going to RIC on I-64 than trying to go over to ORF and drive though the tunnel at 5-6 pm (traffic can be really bad and take forever to get to ORF
 
JetBlueAUS
Posts: 852
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2006 9:15 am

RE: Norfolk, Va Emtpy Gates

Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:15 am



Quoting ORDagent (Reply 2):
Didn't B6 try ORF and pull out?

No, they haven't been to ORF.
Not all of us can be heroes, some of us can only stand on the sidewalk and clap as they go by.
 
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ERJ170
Posts: 5899
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RE: Norfolk, Va Emtpy Gates

Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:23 am



Quoting Lexy (Reply 16):
My thoughts exactly.

Interesting... I would think that Apple Vacations (and companies like that) would offer packages of flight, hotel, and all to the Hampton Roads area and be able to at least get a 80% LF.. much like USA3000..

And by your notion, you are saying that BNA is filling the Frontier flight with stictly individuals who purchased airline tickets ONLY and not purchased the entire package deal? If that's true.. well shut my mouth.. but if that's not the case.. then Hampton Roads can do the same..

Quoting Lexy (Reply 16):
Shameless plug for a route that isn't needed eh?

Not really.. RDU and ORF have alway been connected non-stop from long ago.. Eastern, American, Midway, US Airway, Piedmont.. they all connected RDU and ORF. It was only because Midwest wanted to scrap theri B1900 service that RDU-ORF ended. I think it would work at least for 6 days a week.. even if I am the only one that believes that.. so be it.. and I would not call it shameless at all.. just historically feasible...

Quoting PiedmontINT (Reply 17):
This puzzles me as well. It's maybe a 2.5 - 3 hr drive at the most..

Trust me.. it would be worth it not to have to go through the Emporia speed trap..
Aiming High and going far..
 
Adman737
Topic Author
Posts: 48
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 1:06 am

RE: Norfolk, Va Emtpy Gates

Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:58 am

I like ORF it is a good airport for the people that live on the other side of the tunnel. If i book a flight from ORF i am leaving my house 3 and a half hours before the planes leave i live in hampton just imagine the traffic on I-64. I pick what is cheaper, sometimes i find flights cheaper in Newport and it is only 15mins away or sometimes i find flights in Norfolk cheaoer but i love Newport there is nothing like that airport i can get there 45mins before my flight leaves and get on the plane just fine. I think i am gonna stop using ORF it gets real old real fast i can find a flight from Newport to orlando on Airtran which has one flight a day there and back it departs at 10:35 i believe i am gonna start using that flight for my monthly trips to MCO.
 
ORFflyer
Posts: 3142
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2005 2:42 am

RE: Norfolk, Va Emtpy Gates

Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:36 pm



Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 13):
Lots and Lots of places have service for that exact reason and there is no reason why ORF couldn't be the same.

Remember though, this is largely a military town. The traveling population is mostly business and military travelers. Not a huge amount of need going to CUN.

Quoting AmtrakGuy (Reply 15):
How many gates WN has at ORF? If I remember, two gates. I was under the impression few years ago ORF was doing very well and could like to add more flights.

At least three - but I'm not completely sure. I was on a WN flight last month to BWI, and there was a WN plane at the gates on both sides of the plane I was getting on. Strangely enough, all 737s.  Wink

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