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knope2001
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ExpressJet Branded Flying Load Factors

Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:49 pm

After months of holding out and having appeals denied, ExpressJet has released some onboard loan information (T100's) for their branded operation. They had released no T100 traffic data since March.

Today's monthly release of T100 information for most airlines was for September 2007. ExpressJet released this information, as well as April and May. Still missing are June/July/August. The stats for April & May represent the first days of the branded flying (when loads were low) and September, which is typically not a very strong month anyway. So we don't see how well any of these routes did during the summer peak. But for what it's worth, here are the actual onboard loads for April May and September, sorted with heaviest on top. Remember that onboard loads are only half the picture when it comes to relative financial performance, and don't tell us what sort of yield they saw.

April
34.8% TUS SMF
32.2% TUS ONT
26.7% ONT GEG
26.1% TUS AUS
23.6% MCI AUS
22.3% MCI TUS
20.0% OKC AUS
19.6% ONT AUS
18.1% SAT ONT
17.8% SMF SAT
17.8% ONT OMA
17.5% OKC ABQ
16.9% ONT BOI
15.4% SMF GEG
14.1% TUL ABQ
12.4% ONT ABQ
12.3% TUL ONT
11.1% ONT MCI
10.9% ONT OKC


May
53.8% MSY SAT
53.8% SAN FAT
51.2% MSY JAX
51.0% MCI TUS
48.6% MSY BHM
48.0% TUS SMF
45.9% SAN OMA
45.7% MCI MSY
45.7% MSY AUS
44.9% TUS SAT
44.9% RDU JAX
43.8% ONT GEG
43.6% RDU BHM
43.3% SAN MRY
42.6% RDU MSY
42.1% TUS ONT
41.4% ONT AUS
40.9% SMF ABQ
40.3% SAT SMF
38.9% MCI JAX
38.0% ONT COS
37.0% SAT ONT
36.8% SAN BOI
36.2% ONT BOI
35.1% SAN COS
34.6% MCI RDU
34.5% MCI AUS
34.1% TUS AUS
32.2% TUL ONT
30.4% ONT MCI
29.4% SAN OKC
28.9% ONT OMA
28.8% OKC ABQ
28.3% ONT OKC
28.2% MCI SDF
28.0% SMF COS
27.4% SMF GEG
27.0% ONT MRY
26.9% RDU SDF
26.7% SMF OKC
26.5% TUL ABQ
24.8% TUL SAN
24.7% ONT ELP
23.8% ONT FAT
23.2% JAX AUS
18.7% ONT ABQ
16.5% OKC AUS
16.1% SAN BFL
15.7% OKC SAT
14.3% AUS CRP
13.8% TUL SAT


September
74.9% SAN FAT
69.8% SAN MRY
66.5% TUS SMF
65.6% MCI TUS
65.1% ONT COS
64.0% ONT GEG
63.6% SMF ABQ
61.9% TUS ONT
61.4% MSY JAX
60.6% SAN GEG
60.5% MSY BHM
59.4% ONT BOI
59.0% ONT OKC
59.0% RDU BHM
58.8% SMF OKC
58.5% ONT ABQ
58.4% ONT ELP
58.3% ONT MCI
58.1% SAN COS
57.8% SAT ONT
57.6% MSY AUS
57.1% ONT OMA
56.4% SMF COS
56.3% SAN BOI
55.2% SAN OMA
54.5% ONT AUS
54.4% MCI RDU
54.2% MCI MSY
52.7% MSY SAT
52.4% MCI JAX
51.8% TUL ONT
51.6% RDU MSY
50.4% SAT SMF
49.9% ONT MRY
49.4% RDU SDF
48.9% SAN OKC
48.8% OKC ABQ
48.0% ABQ SAT
47.2% TUL SMF
46.6% TUS AUS
46.1% SMF BFL
44.6% ABQ AUS
44.2% RDU JAX
43.3% RDU SAT
43.1% ONT FAT
43.0% SAN BFL
42.8% MCI SDF
41.9% TUS ELP
41.7% MCI AUS
39.8% TUL SAN
39.1% TUL ABQ
37.9% TUS SAT
37.7% JAX AUS
36.4% SMF GEG
35.6% OKC SAT
35.0% OKC AUS
27.1% TUL AUS
24.9% TUL SAT
12.5% AUS CRP


Also, just to get a little different focus on the relative results in terms of load factor, here are the same numbers for September listed by some key focus points on the XE network:

Albuquerque
63.6% SMF
58.5% ONT
48.8% OKC
48.0% SAT
44.6% AUS
39.1% TUL

Austin
57.6% MSY
54.5% ONT
46.6% TUS
44.6% ABQ
41.7% MCI
37.7% JAX
35.0% OKC
27.1% TUL
12.5% CRP

Kansas City
65.6% TUS
58.3% ONT
54.4% RDU
54.2% MSY
52.4% JAX
42.8% SDF
41.7% AUS

New Orleans
61.4% JAX
60.5% BHM
57.6% AUS
54.2% MCI
52.7% SAT
51.6% RDU

Ontario
65.1% COS
64.0% GEG
61.9% TUS
59.4% BOI
59.0% OKC
58.5% ABQ
58.4% ELP
58.3% MCI
57.8% SAT
57.1% OMA
54.5% AUS
51.8% TUL
49.9% MRY
43.1% FAT

Raleigh/Durham
59.0% BHM
54.4% MCI
51.6% MSY
49.4% SDF
44.2% JAX
43.3% SAT

San Diego
74.9% FAT
69.8% MRY
60.6% GEG
58.1% COS
56.3% BOI
55.2% OMA
48.9% OKC
43.0% BFL
39.8% TUL

San Antonio
57.8% ONT
52.7% MSY
50.4% SMF
48.0% ABQ
43.3% RDU
37.9% TUS
35.6% OKC
24.9% TUL

Sacramento
66.5% TUS
63.6% ABQ
58.8% OKC
56.4% COS
50.4% SAT
47.2% TUL
46.1% BFL
36.4% GEG

Tucson
66.5% SMF
65.6% MCI
61.9% ONT
46.6% AUS
41.9% ELP
37.9% SAT


Remember that this is only September, and that's not among the strongest months in general. However September is light on leisure travel and so this may actually give a decent *general* idea of the relative business demand in these markets. From these numbers it doesn't seem terribly surprising that they are focusing west.

[Edited 2007-12-13 10:57:27]
 
whatusaid
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RE: ExpressJet Branded Flying Load Factors

Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:58 pm

Does the fact that FAT-SAN is performing well come as a surprise? Not at all. Fares are up and loads continue strong even with less than ideal scheduling. Too far to drive and too expensive to fly UAX, etc. It's the perfect niche market and one that will never attract attention from another carrier unless G4's expansion plans include SAN. And, I'd say there are others in the West that are also untapped. That MRY-SAN is doing well, given the short drive up 101 to catch WN from SJC, that does surprise me.

I'm more interested in their next strategic realignment than the loads of last summer or even that they (reportedly) ran better than a 90% LF over the Thanksgiving rush.
 
FATFlyer
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RE: ExpressJet Branded Flying Load Factors

Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:59 pm



Quoting WhatUsaid (Reply 1):
Does the fact that FAT-SAN is performing well come as a surprise? Not at all. Fares are up and loads continue strong even with less than ideal scheduling. Too far to drive and too expensive to fly UAX, etc. It's the perfect niche market and one that will never attract attention from another carrier unless G4's expansion plans include SAN.

I think it is the same reason that either XJet or G4 would probably do well on FAT-RNO. Its a 5 to 6 hour drive or a UAX connection at SFO/LAX.

A nonstop would only be 30 to 40 minutes.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
EXAAUADL
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RE: ExpressJet Branded Flying Load Factors

Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:04 pm

Flights between OK and TX really really suck!!! Looks like ONT is doing well for them except for MRY and FAT
 
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LAXintl
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RE: ExpressJet Branded Flying Load Factors

Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:12 pm

Knope2001-
Thanks for crunching the numbers, I was hoping someone would take the task on.

Hopefully the missing months are uploaded soon, or another airline kindly reminds the DOT of the missing months as well.

Should be interesting to see how the quarters financial numbers stack up as we move into '08.
Even with best case ~60%+ LF I can this being anything other then lots of red ink especially considering where fuel seems to be stubbornly sitting these last few months.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
FATFlyer
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RE: ExpressJet Branded Flying Load Factors

Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:16 pm



Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 3):
Flights between OK and TX really really suck!!! Looks like ONT is doing well for them except for MRY and FAT

FAT-ONT was reduced to 1X per day in November when FAT-LGB started. Depending upon how many passengers were lost by dropping frequency, FAT-ONT route hopefully will now be a little higher.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
PanAm747
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RE: ExpressJet Branded Flying Load Factors

Thu Dec 13, 2007 11:04 pm



Quote:
SAN 43.0% BFL

OUCH!! This was painful to look at, but then again, XJet reduced the number of flights per day from two to one, so hopefully this average will come back up.

The alternative...ughh...is back to driving I-5 through L.A.  banghead 
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: ExpressJet Branded Flying Load Factors

Thu Dec 13, 2007 11:12 pm



Quoting Knope2001 (Thread starter):
May
14.3% AUS CRP



Quoting Knope2001 (Thread starter):
September
12.5% AUS CRP

Holy damn, did CRP do bad. Given those numbers, I'm surprised Xjet didn't actually cut CRP much sooner. 12-14%, that's 6-7 seats per flight.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: ExpressJet Branded Flying Load Factors

Thu Dec 13, 2007 11:14 pm

LAX-TIJ was 7 (seven)  Silly
I don't take responsibility at all
 
ECONOMICS
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RE: ExpressJet Branded Flying Load Factors

Thu Dec 13, 2007 11:19 pm

a bit off topic, but ...

there were a few articles in australian travel media a month or so ago about Expressjet coming to Oz & looking for a partner. ?Does anyone know anymore on this ?
 
whatusaid
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RE: ExpressJet Branded Flying Load Factors

Thu Dec 13, 2007 11:22 pm



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 8):
LAX-TIJ was 7 (seven)

That wasn't branded, that was DL codeshare.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: ExpressJet Branded Flying Load Factors

Thu Dec 13, 2007 11:34 pm



Quoting ECONOMICS (Reply 9):
Expressjet coming to Oz

ExpressJet - Regional Australia Flights? (by QF175 Oct 18 2007 in Civil Aviation)
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18701
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: ExpressJet Branded Flying Load Factors

Thu Dec 13, 2007 11:34 pm



Quoting WhatUsaid (Reply 10):
That wasn't branded, that was DL codeshare.

True....but it was still withheld until today. Their other LAX/Mexico numbers were bad but not nearly as bad as single digits.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
Osprey88
Posts: 268
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RE: ExpressJet Branded Flying Load Factors

Thu Dec 13, 2007 11:45 pm

First off, thanks to Knope2001 for crunching the numbers, and it seems California has been doing very well for Xjet, especially SAN, FAT, and MRY.

Quoting WhatUsaid (Reply 1):
That MRY-SAN is doing well, given the short drive up 101 to catch WN from SJC, that does surprise me.

It honestly does not surprise me in the least. I often drive up 101 from MRY up to SJC to catch a flight, and this corridor can often be very trafficky, especially on the weekday mornings and evenings. Couple this with parking and getting to SJC and its roughly 2 hours to the check in desk all told. XE provides a great alternative to this grind with non stop service to SAN with prices that often match WN.

MRY-ONT is not doing all that badly either from my view, but it is very clear that that route does not need 2x daily flights to ONT, and I think the cutback to 1x daily was well worth it. I will be looking forward with interest to see how LGB performs, especially to FAT and MRY.

Overall though, I think XE has got something going here, and I remain optimistic, especially in SAN and the rest of California and I did notice an increase in XE's branded, system wide load factor from September to November. And this is not even peak season!

September XE Branded ops LF: 51.4%
November XE Branded ops LF: 61.4%

September Load Numbers:
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix....-newsArticle&ID=1061931&highlight=
November Load Numbers:
http://investor.expressjet.com/phoen...-newsArticle&ID=1086415&highlight=
"Reading departure signs in some big airports reminds me of the places I've been"
 
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LAXintl
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RE: ExpressJet Branded Flying Load Factors

Thu Dec 13, 2007 11:45 pm

With the numbers being finally published, shareholders, analyst, and the world in general will finally get a clear view of the smoke and mirrors XJT management has been trying to hide behind regarding its branded operation and even the Delta at risk flying.

Sad to see this profitable company with stock running upwards of $15 begin posting quarter after quarter of red ink with a stock value now in the ~$2 range  banghead 
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
jumbojettim
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RE: ExpressJet Branded Flying Load Factors

Fri Dec 14, 2007 12:32 am



Quoting Laxintl (Reply 14):
With the numbers being finally published, shareholders, analyst, and the world in general will finally get a clear view of the smoke and mirrors XJT management has been trying to hide behind regarding its branded operation and even the Delta at risk flying.

Sad to see this profitable company with stock running upwards of $15 begin posting quarter after quarter of red ink with a stock value now in the ~$2 range

So you think that XJT should have just let the 69 a/c go to another carrier, and possibly another 50 plus in a couple of years while sitting back and doing nothing. The facts remain the same, XJT has one of the best contracts (pilots) and CAL and other legacies will continue to find cheaper labor while sacrificing quality.
 
Bicoastal
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RE: ExpressJet Branded Flying Load Factors

Fri Dec 14, 2007 12:52 am

This looks pretty pathetic to me. It would be wise for UAX/Skywest to add a few SAN-FAT and SAN-MRY non-stop flights to put Express Jet out of its misery. XJet loads are pathetic except for those flights. And with fuel at $95/barrel, XJT can't afford to be in the air. Looks a lot like Independence Air to me. Bye-bye, Express Jet. Good riddance to its silly management who thought they could make this work.
Airliners.net has many forums. It has spell check and search functions. Use them before posting!
 
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LAXintl
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RE: ExpressJet Branded Flying Load Factors

Fri Dec 14, 2007 12:58 am

XJT had the option of continuing to operate the entire fleet for CO albeit at a slight reduced profit margin (8 vs 10% IIRC).

At the end for whatever reason (pride or otherwise) they decided CO's money was not good enough. Funnily enough to add insult to injury CO won an arbitration against XJT which saw rates on the remaining flying decline even further something XJT was not expecting and could have avoided if they would have agreed to the initial deal.

I'm sure Kerry Skeen ACA's former chairman and CEO today wishes he would have stayed with UAX instead of his dubious attempts at making a low cost carrier out of a RJ operator with FLYi
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
avek00
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RE: ExpressJet Branded Flying Load Factors

Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:42 am



Quoting Jumbojettim (Reply 15):
So you think that XJT should have just let the 69 a/c go to another carrier, and possibly another 50 plus in a couple of years while sitting back and doing nothing.

Either that, accepted the reduced profit margin CO was offering, or else have proceeded to liquidate the business in an orderly fashion that would result in proceeds to shareholders. On its current course, XJT will end up, like Independence Air, on the dustbin of failed airline history, and its creditors and shareholders will have nothing to show for the wasted efforts.
Live life to the fullest.
 
flight152
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RE: ExpressJet Branded Flying Load Factors

Fri Dec 14, 2007 2:21 am



Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 16):
Good riddance to its silly management who thought they could make this work.

*cough* arm chair CEO *cough*

You know nothing of Expressjet managment.
 
modesto2
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RE: ExpressJet Branded Flying Load Factors

Fri Dec 14, 2007 2:27 am



Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 16):
Good riddance to its silly management who thought they could make this work.

It's unfortunate that you feel that way. On the contrary, ExpressJet management actually cares about its employees and has taken steps to ensure the integrity of not just the company but also its employees. It's no secret that the "branded" business venture has faced formidable challenges since its inception, but the fact remains - ExpressJet is a great company. For example, the pilots still have one of the very best contracts and pay in the regional industry. The employees are still cautiously optimistic about this new business, and most importantly, the company still has decent morale. I'm not quite sure why you're displaying such hate towards ExpressJet, but please keep such comments to yourself.

Quoting Jumbojettim (Reply 15):
So you think that XJT should have just let the 69 a/c go to another carrier, and possibly another 50 plus in a couple of years while sitting back and doing nothing. The facts remain the same, XJT has one of the best contracts (pilots) and CAL and other legacies will continue to find cheaper labor while sacrificing quality.

Agreed. This regional airline industry certainly doesn't award quality, but instead, thrives upon the bottom line. Maybe one day, things will change. For now, I'll keep my flights on-time despite a lack of recognition by the powers that be (legacy management).
 
Bicoastal
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RE: ExpressJet Branded Flying Load Factors

Fri Dec 14, 2007 2:28 am



Quoting Flight152 (Reply 19):
*cough* arm chair CEO *cough*

You know nothing of Expressjet managment.

I'll grant you that. I'm simply looking at XJet's financials and load factors. Good for me. Why don't you defend the airline's management and state some reasons why you think XJet will become a fabulously profitable and successful company, fill its gas guzzling RJs and will slay WN, UA, B6, CO and the like??
Airliners.net has many forums. It has spell check and search functions. Use them before posting!
 
flight152
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RE: ExpressJet Branded Flying Load Factors

Fri Dec 14, 2007 2:36 am

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 21):
I'm simply looking at XJet's financials and load factors.

The branded services have been in operation for LESS THEN A YEAR! They have improved greatly from where they started and are still working on what works and what isn't working. I've been able to meet Jim Ream and some other members of upper management and truly believe they have something that will work. Why are you so quick to shoot them down? The numbers never tell the whole story.

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 21):
and will slay WN, UA, B6, CO and the like??

Isn't the whole business model to provide service to destinations and routes not served by the big box airlines?

[Edited 2007-12-13 18:38:03]
 
Bicoastal
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RE: ExpressJet Branded Flying Load Factors

Fri Dec 14, 2007 2:45 am



Quoting Flight152 (Reply 22):
Why are you so quick to shoot them down? The numbers never tell the whole story.

Uh, sorry to let facts not get confused with emotion. Investors and the market don't get bogged down by "gee, they're nice guys, so I don't care if I lose my shirt." Yes, numbers do tell the whole story.

I hate to see businesses fail, but this XJet is like Independence Air deja vu. It's just a matter of time. I'm sorry, but the facts speak for themselves. But, ok, I'll use my best Bill Clinton (I hate that man) line and say, "I feel your pain."
Airliners.net has many forums. It has spell check and search functions. Use them before posting!
 
avek00
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RE: ExpressJet Branded Flying Load Factors

Fri Dec 14, 2007 2:54 am



Quoting Modesto2 (Reply 20):
On the contrary, ExpressJet management actually cares about its employees

If management truly cared, they would be conducting an orderly shutdown that allows it employees to gradually transition out instead of racking up losses that could one day lead to a rather sudden collapse of the company, leaving employees in the cold and out of funds.
Live life to the fullest.
 
flight152
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RE: ExpressJet Branded Flying Load Factors

Fri Dec 14, 2007 2:59 am



Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 23):
I hate to see businesses fail, but this XJet is like Independence Air deja vu.

Completely different business models and executions.

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 23):
Yes, numbers do tell the whole story.

And the 10% increase in LF over only 2 months doesn't say anything?
 
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SANFan
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RE: ExpressJet Branded Flying Load Factors

Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:01 am

Needless to say I'm pleased with SAN loads overall.

San Diego
74.9% FAT
69.8% MRY
60.6% GEG
58.1% COS
56.3% BOI
55.2% OMA
48.9% OKC
43.0% BFL
39.8% TUL

BTW Knope2001, thank you very much (again) for the great job of presenting the numbers for us in a neat and easily-readable package!

A few things are a surprise and some aren't: it's clear why BFL and TUL were trimmed to 1x daily and we hope the single frequency in those 2 markets will, with no choice of times now, be able to show LF increases. I don't think many are surprised by the great SAN-FAT numbers (by far, the highest in the system!) and I'm wondering if there might be an additional r/t in the market next year? SAN-MRY is, I bet, surprising to some, but not to me; I figured this market would do well but to be the next highest performer system-wide is very nice to see. All but 3 of the SAN routes are above 55% LF; without knowing yields, of course the number is fairly meaningless, but it's a good start!

It also must be remembered that both BOI and GEG saw competition (from QX) start in July so it looks like XE is holding their own pretty well against that.

I continue to believe that for SAN (as well as, it appears, for ONT, SMF and TUS), this niche-fitting operation by XE is a great fit. These are all essentially under-served, yet decently-sized, cities that are mainly "spokes" connected to the "hubs" of our country's aviation industry. They therefore see less P-2-P service than some cities, other than what WN provides from all of them, yet there are obviously some opportunities for success. These cities, if they were located geographically more toward the center of the country, would possibly be hubs and have lots more n/s service to many additional cities; look at SLC, CLT, MCI, MKE, and CMH!

Unfortunately, it takes more than 4 cities to make a successful airline operation (especially when all 4 are not even connected with one-another!) but perhaps we will see a dramatic shift in the XE route map next year with a concentration in the southwest corner of the country. (Actually, that's already started to happen and is quite obvious with a glance at the "View All Routes" version of their route map):
http://www.xjet.com/menu/whyxjet/routemap.htm

I still think they could increase (or in some cases just market/promote) some direct/1-stop (or even connecting) options to increase destination possibilities from various stations. These would tend to be competitive with WN in many cases but might put a few more bodies on XE's flights; markets like SAN-MSY, JAX-ABQ, RDU-AUS, BFL-TUL, SBA-COS, RNO-ELP, SMF-MSY, BOI-TUS could be tested and developed... and who knows? (Sorry if some of these examples are already served by XE or others but I don't think so.)

In any case, as a SANFan, I'm pleased, and as an ExpressJet-fan, I'm not ready to throw in the towel by any means. I still think the business model is sound but working with thin routes just takes time. I do hope they continue to trim and fine tune things and find a route map that works successfully for them.

bb
 
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LAXintl
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RE: ExpressJet Branded Flying Load Factors

Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:30 am

Companies are run based on P&L not if they happen to be compassionate towards it employees. But even if XJT decisions were based on what was best for its employees, I cannot begin to even see how branded ops goes towards ensuring long term success and employment.

Lets look at it this way.
2001 Profit:$48.1m
2002 Profit:$84.3m
2003 Profit:$108.2m
2004 Profit:$122.8m
2005 Profit:$98.0m
2006 Profit:$92.6m
2007 Loss:$58.4m operating // $22.3m net loss as of 9/30

As a former shareholder I cannot begin to phantom the business decision taken by XJT management that has resulted in a $100m+mill swing in profitability in a single year.

Even if branded operations were to manage to break even at some point in the future the whole venture is very much for nothing. Why venture down a path when company could very well continued operating for CO and earning guaranteed profits - maybe not a flashy $100mil, but respectable $80mil.
Sure maybe the CO deal was not as sweet as before however it kept the company quite profitable and still at the top of the pact amongst it peers while employees had job security and shareholders and company see millions in equity vaporise before their eyes.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
jumbojettim
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RE: ExpressJet Branded Flying Load Factors

Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:38 am



Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 16):
This looks pretty pathetic to me. It would be wise for UAX/Skywest to add a few SAN-FAT and SAN-MRY non-stop flights to put Express Jet out of its misery. XJet loads are pathetic except for those flights. And with fuel at $95/barrel, XJT can't afford to be in the air. Looks a lot like Independence Air to me. Bye-bye, Express Jet. Good riddance to its silly management who thought they could make this work.

Why don't you go back to your little cubicle and type away and worry about when the next smoke break is!
 
jumbojettim
Posts: 159
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2001 11:59 am

RE: ExpressJet Branded Flying Load Factors

Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:42 am



Quoting Laxintl (Reply 27):
Even if branded operations were to manage to break even at some point in the future the whole venture is very much for nothing. Why venture down a path when company could very well continued operating for CO and earning guaranteed profits - maybe not a flashy $100mil, but respectable $80mil.
Sure maybe the CO deal was not as sweet as before however it kept the company quite profitable and still at the top of the pact amongst it peers while employees had job security and shareholders and company see millions in equity vaporise before their eyes

From my understanding CAL wanted XJT to basically fly at cost with a very little profit margin, definitely not 8 to 10% profit margin.
 
N1120A
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RE: ExpressJet Branded Flying Load Factors

Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:54 am



Quoting Knope2001 (Thread starter):

Wow, those numbers are ugly. Interesting to note MSY's comparatively strong performance.

Quoting WhatUsaid (Reply 1):
Does the fact that FAT-SAN is performing well come as a surprise?

Not at all. Then again, that number should be even higher.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18701
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: ExpressJet Branded Flying Load Factors

Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:28 am



Quoting Flight152 (Reply 19):
You know nothing of Expressjet managment.

Well now everyone can finally "profit" from the knowledge of their route performance Silly Who is first?
I don't take responsibility at all
 
avek00
Posts: 3261
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 5:56 am

RE: ExpressJet Branded Flying Load Factors

Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:02 am



Quoting Jumbojettim (Reply 29):
From my understanding CAL wanted XJT to basically fly at cost with a very little profit margin, definitely not 8 to 10% profit margin.

XJT would probably still be ahead had they taken the deal as opposed to their current strategy.
Live life to the fullest.
 
ECONOMICS
Posts: 57
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:38 am

RE: ExpressJet Branded Flying Load Factors

Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:02 am



Quoting Laxintl (Reply 11):
Quoting ECONOMICS (Reply 9):
Expressjet coming to Oz

ExpressJet - Regional Australia Flights? (by QF175 Oct 18 2007 in Civil Aviation)

So nothing's come of the talk so far ?

or did that have something to do with Kiwijet at 1 stage using some Embraer jets domestically in NZ (1 of earlier business plans)
 
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LAXintl
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RE: ExpressJet Branded Flying Load Factors

Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:46 pm



Quoting ECONOMICS (Reply 33):
So nothing's come of the talk so far ?

Does not seem so. News left as fast as it came.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
VictorKilo
Posts: 275
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 7:39 am

RE: ExpressJet Branded Flying Load Factors

Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:39 pm

Based on these numbers, I think the following actions may be taken:

1. Withdrawal from RDU. None of the markets seem to be performing all that well, except for BHM-RDU – and BHM is only connected to the rest of the network via RDU, making it impossible to circulate aircraft through this route via revenue flights. Not enough justification to keep the station.
2. Withdrawal from BHM, due to above reason.
3. End all JAX flights except for JAX-MSY.
4. Withdrawal from TUL. No strong markets.
5. Withdrawal from OKC to TX flying. The two worst-performing routes in the system served (not including TUL-TX flights and the already cancelled AUS-CRP flight) are OKC-SAT and OKC-AUS. Not viable routes when competing against WN’s DAL hub.

I know that XE has already reduced flying in some of these markets, but I think that more radical steps may be necessary to help keep XE's branded ops viable.
 
Bicoastal
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RE: ExpressJet Branded Flying Load Factors

Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:08 am



Quoting Jumbojettim (Reply 28):
Why don't you go back to your little cubicle and type away and worry about when the next smoke break is

Wow, now there's an insightful comment that adds to the relatively civil discussion that has transpired so far.
Airliners.net has many forums. It has spell check and search functions. Use them before posting!
 
jumbojettim
Posts: 159
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2001 11:59 am

RE: ExpressJet Branded Flying Load Factors

Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:36 am



Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 36):
Wow, now there's an insightful comment that adds to the relatively civil discussion that has transpired so far.

I made the comment, because I happen to work for XJT, and find it disrepectful when someone makes such harsh statements when there are hundreds of us that work our a%^&s on the "branded" side to make this airline work. We DO have an uphill battle, but it's people like you that spout off such comments that do not help us. You also don't see the daily operations where the MAJORITY of people that get off of our a/c and say "that was a wonderful flight, you'll see me again"
 
Bicoastal
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Joined: Wed Oct 06, 1999 5:56 am

RE: ExpressJet Branded Flying Load Factors

Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:02 am



Quoting Jumbojettim (Reply 37):
I made the comment, because I happen to work for XJT, and find it disrepectful when someone makes such harsh statements when there are hundreds of us that work our a%^&s on the "branded" side to make this airline work. We DO have an uphill battle, but it's people like you that spout off such comments that do not help us. You also don't see the daily operations where the MAJORITY of people that get off of our a/c and say "that was a wonderful flight, you'll see me again

Again, I hate to confuse you with the financial and operational facts. The bitter pill of truth may not seem to help you, but you can't keep your head in the sand. Yes, I appreciate how hard you work and your desire to keep your job. Your anger should be directed toward your management. Though they seem to be nice guys, they haven't done well running a company. Yes people may compliment your service and their flight, unfortunately there's not enough people flying your airline to keep you in business for the long term. Do yourself a favor and put your application in over at Skywest, Southwest, United and others that may be hiring in the near future.

Good luck!
Airliners.net has many forums. It has spell check and search functions. Use them before posting!
 
avek00
Posts: 3261
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 5:56 am

RE: ExpressJet Branded Flying Load Factors

Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:04 am



Quoting SANFan (Reply 26):
I still think the business model is sound but working with thin routes just takes time.



Quoting Jumbojettim (Reply 37):
You also don't see the daily operations where the MAJORITY of people that get off of our a/c and say "that was a wonderful flight, you'll see me again"

1. Such limited observation points tell us far less than aggregate numbers that provide a useful measure of the airline's performance.

2. I'm sure XJT's employees work hard, but don't equate job success with corporate success. XJT might be a wonderful airline, but for the time being, it's a bad business.
Live life to the fullest.
 
Tornado82
Posts: 4662
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 10:19 am

RE: ExpressJet Branded Flying Load Factors

Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:15 am

First off, ExpressJet is never going to have a sudden liquidation. The Continental operation would be enough to subsidize the operation almost, were it not for the massive startup costs. Those costs will dwindle away.

Secondly Continental wouldn't ALLOW ExpressJet to get that deeply in trouble. If ExpressJet suddenly vanishes Continental is left without substantial amounts of their network. They can't afford that, and would make a cash infusion if necessary for their own business. CO would lose hundreds of millions themselves if BTA disappeared. Before someone says "But they could just put the aircraft with Chautauqua" it doesn't work that easily. It's not as if Chautauqua pilots could just walk onto the BTA aircraft and fly it. That would take ALOT of time, effort, money, etc.

For those of you complaining about BTA's 61% (and rapidly climbing) LF, just keep in mind that Southwest is also running sub-70% in November. Yeah, the mighty Southwest.

Sure XJet's branded ops have had their challenges and teething problems, but I'd expect a return to profitability for the entire airline in 08 as a whole, and likely the branded ops breaking even in the summer of 08. Rome wasn't built in a day, and VERY few companies are profitable in their first few quarters of a new endeavor like this.
 
avek00
Posts: 3261
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 5:56 am

RE: ExpressJet Branded Flying Load Factors

Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:19 am



Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 40):
For those of you complaining about BTA's 61% (and rapidly climbing) LF, just keep in mind that Southwest is also running sub-70% in November. Yeah, the mighty Southwest.

Southwest uses aircraft with a lower CASM and has a better ability to attract higher end business travelers compared with ExpressJet. In fact, WN is virtually everything Xjtet isn't, including profitable.
Live life to the fullest.
 
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LAXintl
Posts: 25399
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RE: ExpressJet Branded Flying Load Factors

Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:20 am



Quoting Jumbojettim (Reply 37):
makes such harsh statements

No disrespect to you as a XJT employee, however people can rightfully point out the to date business failure branded ops has been and the perceived wrong path the management has taken the company down. Its not just a few a.net poster that feel this way, but greater investment and finance community as well.

And to those comments that XJT might have a wonderfull product offering which you very well have, remember FLYi also received very positive public comments however we know where they ended up.
The airline history graveyard is full of companies that might have put on a nice front end operation together but woefully lacked back end financial success.

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 39):
I'm sure XJT's employees work hard, but don't equate job success with corporate success. XJT might be a wonderful airline, but for the time being, it's a bad business.

 checkmark  Well put.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
avek00
Posts: 3261
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 5:56 am

RE: ExpressJet Branded Flying Load Factors

Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:22 am



Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 40):
Secondly Continental wouldn't ALLOW ExpressJet to get that deeply in trouble.

There's an excess of capacity in the RJ market, and the COEX work can be divvied out among an assortment of carriers. CO already showed its true sentiments when it was willing to bring in CHQ in the first place.
Live life to the fullest.
 
Tornado82
Posts: 4662
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 10:19 am

RE: ExpressJet Branded Flying Load Factors

Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:26 am



Quoting Avek00 (Reply 43):

There's an excess of capacity in the RJ market, and the COEX work can be divvied out among an assortment of carriers. CO already showed its true sentiments when it was willing to bring in CHQ in the first place.

But they can't do that overnight. That's the whole point! There will be no sudden collapse of ExpressJet regardless of what the naysayers here say. If the market was oh-so-loose CHQ wouldn't have had to go out and buy CRJ's and go through all that expense.

Besides if ExpressJet collapses the other airlines would have a really hard time hiring and training all those pilots in a short period of time.
 
Alias1024
Posts: 2797
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:13 am

RE: ExpressJet Branded Flying Load Factors

Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:42 am



Quoting SANFan (Reply 26):
It also must be remembered that both BOI and GEG saw competition (from QX) start in July so it looks like XE is holding their own pretty well against that.

They seem to be holding their own load factor wise, but the competiton may be trashing yields. QX matching XE in BOI and GEG was a signal from Alaska Air Group that they are going to protect their turf. XE could be doing well in both cities, or it could be a bloodbath.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: ExpressJet Branded Flying Load Factors

Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:44 am

Agreed things dont happen overnight, however any downfall of ExpressJet wont happen overnight either and give CO plenty of time to consider its options. As we know airlines particularly those of any size just dont shut down one day, they go thru a bankrupcty process.

Anyhow even in a worst case, overnight shutdown, I'd be willing to wager several operators would be able to acquire the planes and pick up a good portion of the idle pilot force and be up and running in a matter of months for CO, or other prospective clients if the demand warranted such.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Tornado82
Posts: 4662
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 10:19 am

RE: ExpressJet Branded Flying Load Factors

Sat Dec 15, 2007 4:15 am



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 46):
and be up and running in a matter of months for CO,

It would be *FAR* cheaper for CO to cash infuse XJT (or even buy them back entirely) than it would be to wait "a matter of months" with the revenue they'd lose (and long time customers they'd peeve) in that time frame with only the mainline, CHQ, CJC, and UC flying domestically. Think of Delta during the Comair strike and/or "computer meltdown" a few years ago... now think of Continental in that same situation for "a matter of months."
 
drewwright
Posts: 530
Joined: Tue May 15, 2001 3:51 am

RE: ExpressJet Branded Flying Load Factors

Sat Dec 15, 2007 5:46 am



Quoting Jumbojettim (Reply 29):
From my understanding CAL wanted XJT to basically fly at cost with a very little profit margin, definitely not 8 to 10% profit margin.

As an XJT employee, you should know very well that the whole point was to diversify the express feed (Laxintl, this message is for you, too.) . This has been discussed ad nauseum on this forum and many others. CAL was going to go with CHQ or some other bargain basement carrier no matter what. I'm sure CAL will put out yet another RFP in the next year for the further reductions XJT will face.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26605
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: ExpressJet Branded Flying Load Factors

Sat Dec 15, 2007 7:56 am

American Airlines is most likely going to be looking to contract out a lot of regional flying in late 2008. Look's like Expressjet will have about 46 planes to offer them.
a.

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