Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
milan320
Posts: 821
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 2:25 pm

Disruptive Passenger Clip AC YYZ - LHR

Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:43 am



Quoting BlueSkys (Reply 6):
It is great the way the situation was handled. With calm and some plastic handcuffs....I have never seen a panic attack like that, the guy must have had a huge fear of flying.

Surprised they didn't call the RCMP to taser him and kneel down on his neck and choke him  banghead   duck 
/Milan320
I accept bribes ... :-)
 
georgebush
Posts: 488
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:15 am

Disruptive Passenger Clip AC YYZ - LHR

Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:35 am



Quoting Kriegerkaiser (Reply 50):
God, this is soooo sad. As a nurse, I can only imagine what this guy is going through psychologically.

What would have been more sad is when someone laid him flat out which they should have done. That guy should not have even been on the plane in "that sad of a state." But again, how can you tell how someone is going to react on a plane.
Al Gore invented global warming.
 
SKAirbus
Posts: 1545
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:18 pm

Disruptive Passenger Clip AC YYZ - LHR

Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:37 am



Quoting Dcayow (Reply 22):
The USA has enemies and these enemies used instruments of civil aviation as weapons in a "Battle of Manhattan". So you will have to forgive them for episodes of over-reaction and insensibility.

Of course they did and we understand why the US has extra security measures in place but the US authorities have always been known to be a bit more heavy handed than their Canadian counterparts.. even before 9/11...

But why would treating this man who obviously has some mental problems like a terrorist help the situation? But then again it doesn't take much to be treated like a terrorist in the US.
Base: BRU
 
LHR777
Posts: 645
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 6:14 pm

Disruptive Passenger Clip AC YYZ - LHR

Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:24 am



Quoting Milan320 (Reply 52):
Surprised they didn't call the RCMP to taser him and kneel down on his neck and choke him

A pointless remark really - unless the RCMP have the ability to board an aircraft at cruising altitude and TASER a passenger......
 
SUPRAZACHAIR
Posts: 474
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 3:27 pm

Disruptive Passenger Clip AC YYZ - LHR

Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:34 am



Quoting Threepoint (Reply 36):
Quoting Flyingcat (Reply 17):
Time to get some justice on this noisy fellow "Airplane" style.
Now I have some brass knuckles, anyone have a bat?

I was tempted to fire off a very blunt reply to this, but:

Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 26):
Wacking him on the head and risking death or beating him to a pulp with brass knuckles or a bat, is not part of the culture that I was raised in (however naive).

That was a much more civilized method of responding.

Oh, for the love, he was referring to the movie Airplane!... get over it already. It was a joke. See:

 
albird87
Posts: 566
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:15 am

Disruptive Passenger Clip AC YYZ - LHR

Fri Dec 14, 2007 12:32 pm



Quoting Eghansen (Reply 16):
I thought it was interesting that the woman sitting in the seat in front of the man was completely ignoring the situation. Maybe we are just becoming inured to strange things happening when we fly.

I think actually she looks possibly scared of the situation and is actually doing the right thing. Staying out of the way and letting the pros handle it!

Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 34):
Quoting Tonystan (Reply 34):
he insisted on wiping his own faeces on the toilet wall after he was allowed go to the loo. He was under the impression that we would divert if he did it and so have another chance of avoiding deportation for a

gotta give the guy points for creativity

Or more points for just plain vandalism and being a nutter!! Seems he doenst care about the person who then has to go in there and clean that stuff up!!



Back the main thread tho now...
WOW well done to the staff on that flight. Perfect way to handle the person by using simple calm methods instead of overpowering the person till he is quiet.
A couple of points do come to mind tho......
A) I would love to of found out how this all really started... i think someone/thing started this off and it wasnt just him on his own accord.
B) Even tho i think the crew handled it very well..... in the interest of not starting another panic attack by someone else on the aircraft, when the person was not calming down and shouting words in his home language, why didnt the crew move him to the back where he could then be out of peoples way and calm the person down there?? My only guess is that they wanted to imobilise him in his seat and not have him swinging his arms in the cabin.

I try to be as non-biased as i can be here but can you blame our muslim friend here?? Obviously something has distrubed him and im sure that muslim passengers have as much paranoia about getting on aircraft as the rest of the world due to the fact that they are always being looked down upon by other passengers.... I have to say that i can sort of understand why he may be panic-ing.


Now on a lighter note, I wouldnt want to have his seat ont he return flight...... my IFE wouldnt work after all the grabbing of the seat in front!!  duck 
 
DCAYOW
Posts: 548
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 3:24 am

Disruptive Passenger Clip AC YYZ - LHR

Fri Dec 14, 2007 2:25 pm



Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 53):
But why would treating this man who obviously has some mental problems like a terrorist help the situation? But then again it doesn't take much to be treated like a terrorist in the US.

He was NEVER treated like a terrorist. Remember he was on AIR CANADA. People are ASSUMING IF he had been on AMERICAN, DELTA or UNITED, he WOULD HAVE been treated as a terrorist. WHY are we making these ASSUMPTIONS? All I ask is you give people the benefit of the doubt.

I have problems with the way the government has treated people in the past, but the way forward CAN be different.
Retorne ao céu...
 
Emirates773ER
Posts: 1325
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 9:10 am

Disruptive Passenger Clip AC YYZ - LHR

Fri Dec 14, 2007 2:47 pm



Quoting Albird87 (Reply 56):
I try to be as non-biased as i can be here but can you blame our muslim friend here?? Obviously something has distrubed him and im sure that muslim passengers have as much paranoia about getting on aircraft as the rest of the world due to the fact that they are always being looked down upon by other passengers.... I have to say that i can sort of understand why he may be panic-ing.

I can assure you that this person is not a muslim, at least not a practicing one.
The Truth is Out There ---- Face It!!!!!
 
flyingcat
Posts: 531
Joined: Tue May 29, 2007 10:33 am

Disruptive Passenger Clip AC YYZ - LHR

Fri Dec 14, 2007 2:49 pm



Quoting SupraZachAir (Reply 55):
Oh, for the love, he was referring to the movie Airplane!... get over it already. It was a joke

At least someone notices that it was only a joke.

You know it is pretty sad day when only one person picks up on the "Airplane" reference.

Personally I think the accent coupled with the rampant cursing was hilarious. Maybe he has Tourette's syndrome.
 
xXMHxLHx5LXx
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:17 am

Disruptive Passenger Clip AC YYZ - LHR

Fri Dec 14, 2007 2:55 pm



Quoting SupraZachAir (Reply 55):



Quoting SupraZachAir (Reply 55):
Quoting Threepoint (Reply 36):
Quoting Flyingcat (Reply 17):
Time to get some justice on this noisy fellow "Airplane" style.
Now I have some brass knuckles, anyone have a bat?

I was tempted to fire off a very blunt reply to this, but:

Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 26):
Wacking him on the head and risking death or beating him to a pulp with brass knuckles or a bat, is not part of the culture that I was raised in (however naive).

That was a much more civilized method of responding.

Oh, for the love, he was referring to the movie Airplane!... get over it already. It was a joke. See:

Hmmm... airliners.net and so few know about one of the top 10 funniest movies ever made movies called "airplane?"

incredible ...  Wink) Well... but I can ensure it did cross the pond (though its title in German is quite stupid... imo)


back to the topic... I am pretty impressed by the calmness everybody showed.. very impressive indeed.

Quoting Eghansen (Reply 16):
I thought it was interesting that the woman sitting in the seat in front of the man was completely ignoring the situation. Maybe we are just becoming inured to strange things happening when we fly.

I remember flying from NRT to LAX and a man collapsed in the aisle next of me. The flight attendants came up with an oxygen tank and got him back on his feet and into a seat, but the other passengers complete ignored anything that was happening.

I think it always depends on the situation... in this case, people were already handling the situation very well by staring at the happening you don't do any good, right? So I think I would have put my earplugs on full volume as well... I mean, not because it is not interesting or usual in any way... but because I wouldn't want the situation getting worse (imagine how he would've reacted if the whole Y-section started to look over to him) I just dont like people staring at something without doing anything... and when there are enough people dealing with the situation, I don't have to worry anymore.
Airbus 319/20/21 332 333 342 343 300 388 Boeing 717 722 732/-3/-4/-5/-G/-8 742 744 748 752 763 764 772 788 DC3 DC10 DH7
 
Biman
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 11:46 am

Disruptive Passenger Clip AC YYZ - LHR

Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:28 pm

I've enjoyed reading this thread. The input from most of the Canadian posters is very very impressive - kudos to you all for the compassionate, humane and dignified responses to what seems like a very very distressing scene. It baffles me to see such stark difference in attitude and frankly maturity between Canadians and Americans ... one has only to look at the tenor of responses from the majority of American responses to realize this ...
 
jamincan
Posts: 587
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 9:28 am

Disruptive Passenger Clip AC YYZ - LHR

Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:57 pm



Quoting Biman (Reply 61):
I've enjoyed reading this thread. The input from most of the Canadian posters is very very impressive - kudos to you all for the compassionate, humane and dignified responses to what seems like a very very distressing scene. It baffles me to see such stark difference in attitude and frankly maturity between Canadians and Americans ... one has only to look at the tenor of responses from the majority of American responses to realize this ...

Aside from the first response, I don't see anything overly bothersome about the tenor of the responses from Americans here. Most seem to acknowledge that the situation was handled well, and some speculate that the situation may have been treated differently in the states. How's that immature?
 
chgoflyer
Posts: 312
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2003 11:16 pm

Disruptive Passenger Clip AC YYZ - LHR

Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:05 pm



Quoting Dcayow (Reply 22):
If you really worry about how a US flag carrier would have reacted in this situation - you really have no worries at all. I worry about things far more sinister.

My worry would not be how a U.S. Flag carrier would have re acted. My worry would be how fellow passengers on a U.S. flag carrier would re act.
Will someone please wake me up in 4 years
 
iairallie
Posts: 2326
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 5:42 am

Disruptive Passenger Clip AC YYZ - LHR

Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:17 pm



Quoting Albird87 (Reply 56):
I try to be as non-biased as i can be here but can you blame our muslim friend here??

And you know he is muslim how? I didn't see the I am muslim stamp across his forehead. Maybe I missed it.
Enough about flying lets talk about me!
 
riyadhnurse
Posts: 78
Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 9:59 am

Disruptive Passenger Clip AC YYZ - LHR

Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:27 pm

I don't think that was a "panic attack". Looks as though he had a full blown psychotic break,raving , paranoid,and delusional.Maybe he was off his meds,or consumed some alcohol causing a very bad reaction. Glad to know the pax's & crew were ok.  santahat  PS Happy holidays & new year, to all,on A-net.
Tongue-tied and twisted,just an earthbound misfit,I.
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

Disruptive Passenger Clip AC YYZ - LHR

Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:37 pm



Quoting Skoker (Reply 11):
Do airlines carry Lorazepam/Diazepam onboard for situations like this?

....drugs as such would need a prescription.....the man might have a multitude of problems which might even become exacerbated with the medications your mentioned...

Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 58):

I can assure you that this person is not a muslim, at least not a practicing one.

 checkmark 
"Up the Irons!"
 
slider
Posts: 7671
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

Disruptive Passenger Clip AC YYZ - LHR

Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:02 pm

Where's the duct tape when you need it?
 
threepoint
Posts: 1294
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:49 am

Disruptive Passenger Clip AC YYZ - LHR

Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:42 pm



Quoting Georgebush (Reply 52):
What would have been more sad is when someone laid him flat out which they should have done.

Nice.

Quoting SupraZachAir (Reply 55):
he was referring to the movie Airplane!... get over it already. It was a joke.



Quoting XXMHxLHx5LXx (Reply 60):
Hmmm... airliners.net and so few know about one of the top 10 funniest movies ever made movies called "airplane?"

Forgive me if I haven't memorized every line from a movie I found funny as a kid, but haven't watched since. Apologies to Flyingcat, I did miss your reference.
The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
 
vincewy
Posts: 533
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 8:32 am

Disruptive Passenger Clip AC YYZ - LHR

Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:50 pm



Quoting Slider (Reply 67):

or straight jacket, which can be used over and over again.
 
SirDeath
Posts: 67
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:45 am

Disruptive Passenger Clip AC YYZ - LHR

Fri Dec 14, 2007 7:21 pm

Wow, the interior of the AC 777's looks beautiful! They sound so quiet too. The lighting being the twilight shade has a natural calming effect. AC did an excellent job in the configuration! I've never seen the AC 777 in action before... great clip... goofy flipping-out moron, but great clip.
 
abrelosojos
Posts: 4323
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 6:48 am

Disruptive Passenger Clip AC YYZ - LHR

Fri Dec 14, 2007 7:40 pm

Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 58):
I can assure you that this person is not a muslim, at least not a practicing one.

= I am not saying one way or the other ... but how can you be assured that this person was "not a muslim, or at least not a practicing one". All he says in the video is something about white people and something about everyone is against muslims. Do you have insight on what the situation is?

Also, did we ever find out more on this guy?

Cheers,
A.

[Edited 2007-12-14 11:42:15]
Live, and let live.
 
georgebush
Posts: 488
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:15 am

Disruptive Passenger Clip AC YYZ - LHR

Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:17 pm



Quoting Biman (Reply 61):
It baffles me to see such stark difference in attitude and frankly maturity between Canadians and Americans ... one has only to look at the tenor of responses from the majority of American responses to realize this ...

To agree with what Jamincan said, how are the Americans being immature?? Quite frankly you didn't wake up on 9/11 to realize your country was under-attack from terrorists mostly likely acting similar to this on the planes.

I have to say that I feel even more safe now flying (yes because of the xtra precautions ect.) but for the attitude of most Americans who 'over their dead bodies' will let 9/11 happen again. So when they see a clip like this its immediately not "oh he must me soo sick" its "what can I do to get this guy restrained and sedated?" Then worry about his phsycological well-being. I guarantee you the 9/11 hijackers were not in the most stable of mental health.
Al Gore invented global warming.
 
EXAAUADL
Posts: 1740
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:48 am

Disruptive Passenger Clip AC YYZ - LHR

Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:23 pm



Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 3):
Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 1):
he needs to be wacked on the head.

That would be the South of the Border approach

you mean Mexico?????

I dont think we was mentally ill..just having a "episode"What I'd like to know was there no one traveling with him or how did he get ot the airport...also i am sure AC has Sky Marshalls but they should necessairly reveal themselves for something like this..it could always be a diversion
 
User avatar
aloha73g
Posts: 1947
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 6:30 pm

Disruptive Passenger Clip AC YYZ - LHR

Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:43 pm

Similar situation happened to me while I was flying with HA.

An elderly male passenger "lost it" between the beverage and meal service on a SAN-HNL flight. He tried to force his way into First Class, slapped me, slapped a F/C Passenger and punched the 1st F/A. It took 3 male F/As plus 1 male passenger to restrain him and put him in the restraints. We cleared some seats and he sat in the last row of the 1st Coach Cabin screaming "HELP ME!" for the 3+ hours it took to get to HNL.

It seems like the AC crew handled their passenger as we did ours. I am not sure if the AC passenger punched or slapped anyone, but once our passenger resorted to physical violence, he was quickly subdued and restrained. It was all over in less than 30 seconds. The passengers in the front of the aircraft were very calm after he was subdued and the people behind 2L and 2R doors never knew what was going on until we landed and were met by the FBI.

At HA we are taught to restrain the arms behind the body so the passenger becomes immobile when belted into a seat. It looked like this passenger was restrained form the front (arms still flailing about).

-Aloha!
Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
 
threepoint
Posts: 1294
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:49 am

Disruptive Passenger Clip AC YYZ - LHR

Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:45 pm



Quoting Georgebush (Reply 73):
terrorists mostly likely acting similar to this on the planes.

Really? You have insight the rest of us don't have? On what do you base your assumptions? I'm pretty sure the surviving CVRs didn't capture anything at all like this. Read the accounts of the cell phone calls of the doomed passengers. Then compare those to the video.

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 73):
I guarantee you the 9/11 hijackers were not in the most stable of mental health.

And why not? Completely healthy people are capable of bad deeds. Are you a teen prodigy psychologist?

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 73):
I feel even more safe now flying (yes because of the xtra precautions ect.)

It is clear that you are not very aware of the (lack of) effectiveness of these precautions and how, should anybody wish to use aircraft in a similar fashion, one could very very easily go about doing so today.

Can you ascertain that I'm pretty exasperated about the collective mentality (force-fed to us by non-credible sources) towards 'terrorism', most often shown by those incapable of displaying independent thought?
The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15079
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

Disruptive Passenger Clip AC YYZ - LHR

Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:54 pm



Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 2):
That man is having a panic attack

Don't think it's a panic attack - I know what those look like and that wasn't one. Clearly he'd lost it completely, the crew seems to have done a good job keeping him at least in his seat where he couldn't do much harm to himself or others.

Seems odd that there's no medical way to calm him down, rather than let him rave like that and work himself up into a worse state.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
soon7x7
Posts: 2267
Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 10:51 am

Disruptive Passenger Clip AC YYZ - LHR

Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:41 pm



Quoting Skoker (Reply 11):

Duct tape works better!
 
iflyac
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2007 4:11 am

Disruptive Passenger Clip AC YYZ - LHR

Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:28 pm

He's lucky this didn't happen at CYVR. The RCMP would have tazered this one for sure.
What was it we had for dinner tonight? Well, we had a choice of steak or fish. Yes, yes, I remember, I had lasagna.
 
BlueSkys
Posts: 286
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:58 am

Disruptive Passenger Clip AC YYZ - LHR

Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:31 am



Quoting Threepoint (Reply 75):
Really? You have insight the rest of us don't have? On what do you base your assumptions? I'm pretty sure the surviving CVRs didn't capture anything at all like this. Read the accounts of the cell phone calls of the doomed passengers. Then compare those to the video.

 checkmark 

Quoting Milan320 (Reply 51):
Surprised they didn't call the RCMP to taser him and kneel down on his neck and choke him

I think it is sad and pathetic, very pathetic actually that you would make a joke about something like that.... Wow, the more I absorb your comment the more pathetic your antics seem... Next time the 2 guys taser you, 4 guys stomp on you, one with his full weight on your neck with his knee and then you are stabbed 3 times in the head with a baton let me know how you would feel making a joke like that you Jacka$$.  butthead 
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

Disruptive Passenger Clip AC YYZ - LHR

Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:48 am



Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 71):
= I am not saying one way or the other ... but how can you be assured that this person was "not a muslim, or at least not a practicing one". All he says in the video is something about white people and something about everyone is against muslims. Do you have insight on what the situation is?

..there are subtleties which many people such as Emirates773ER and myself were able to pick up...its like that with many people of many nationalities.....My Brit friends and relatives who live in London can tell if someone is from Manchester or even Birmingham just by their comments, language style, etc...again, its like that all over the world...obviously neither Emirates773ER nor myself are 100% sure, but I can say with a high degree of certainty he's not...
"Up the Irons!"
 
georgebush
Posts: 488
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:15 am

Disruptive Passenger Clip AC YYZ - LHR

Sat Dec 15, 2007 8:50 am



Quoting Threepoint (Reply 75):
And why not? Completely healthy people are capable of bad deeds. Are you a teen prodigy psychologist?

So your saying that anyone who commits suicide and at the same time also takes the lives of 200 passengers IS in perfect mental health??

Quoting Threepoint (Reply 75):

Really? You have insight the rest of us don't have? On what do you base your assumptions? I'm pretty sure the surviving CVRs didn't capture anything at all like this. Read the accounts of the cell phone calls of the doomed passengers. Then compare those to the video.

Okay a man of middle eastern decent screaming about wanting to die isn't going to scare your pants off?? If you were on this flight, you wouldn't be thinking about 9/11 at all? Give me a break, most of those passengers had to have been pretty scared, and you can tell from how they were trying to restrain him when he stood up.



Quoting BlueSkys (Reply 79):
Next time the 2 guys taser you, 4 guys stomp on you, one with his full weight on your neck with his knee and then you are stabbed 3 times in the head with a baton let me know how you would feel making a joke like that you Jacka$$.

That seems a bit extreme amount of force to subdue one guy... I think the one taser would suffice.

Who's gonna feel like the jackass if this guy started assaulting innocent passengers because they didn't want to taser him... I am really glad to see how seriously some Canadians take these kind of situations.
Al Gore invented global warming.
 
ACDC8
Posts: 7903
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

Disruptive Passenger Clip AC YYZ - LHR

Sat Dec 15, 2007 10:21 am



Quoting Georgebush (Reply 81):
Okay a man of middle eastern decent screaming about wanting to die isn't going to scare your pants off??

No.

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 81):
If you were on this flight, you wouldn't be thinking about 9/11 at all?

No.

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 81):
Give me a break, most of those passengers had to have been pretty scared, and you can tell from how they were trying to restrain him when he stood up.

Seems more like they were all pretty calm and more worried about his safety as well as their own.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

Disruptive Passenger Clip AC YYZ - LHR

Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:52 pm



Quoting Georgebush (Reply 81):
Okay a man of middle eastern decent

..stop right there.. talktothehand 

the man isn't of middle eastern descent......that is why Emirates773ER and I can say with good certainty he's probably not a Muslim....
"Up the Irons!"
 
EXAAUADL
Posts: 1740
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:48 am

Disruptive Passenger Clip AC YYZ - LHR

Sat Dec 15, 2007 4:09 pm



Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 83):
the man isn't of middle eastern descent......that is why Emirates773ER and I can say with good certainty he's probably not a Muslim....

he's probably hindu and he looks indian.
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

Disruptive Passenger Clip AC YYZ - LHR

Sat Dec 15, 2007 5:13 pm



Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 84):
he's probably hindu and he looks indian.

exactly.... checkmark ..
"Up the Irons!"
 
777STL
Posts: 2770
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 8:22 am

Disruptive Passenger Clip AC YYZ - LHR

Sat Dec 15, 2007 6:26 pm



Quoting BlueSkys (Reply 79):
I think it is sad and pathetic, very pathetic actually that you would make a joke about something like that.... Wow, the more I absorb your comment the more pathetic your antics seem... Next time the 2 guys taser you, 4 guys stomp on you, one with his full weight on your neck with his knee and then you are stabbed 3 times in the head with a baton let me know how you would feel making a joke like that you Jacka$$.

I think his point is that no matter how superior and more progressive you Canadians think you are over us Americans, incidents like this show you to be full of crap and hypocritical.

Quoting Threepoint (Reply 75):
It is clear that you are not very aware of the (lack of) effectiveness of these precautions and how, should anybody wish to use aircraft in a similar fashion, one could very very easily go about doing so today.

I wholeheartedly disagree. With the advent of fortified cockpit doors and the flying public now aware and not putting up with this behavior, I think another 9/11 style attack is impossible in today's world. Hypothetically speaking, even if the terrorists managed to suppress the pax cabin, the chances that they'd get through the cockpit door are nil.

Not to mention air marshals(here in the states), pilots carrying guns, and various new procedures and such, never going to happen.
PHX based
 
OHLHD
Posts: 2903
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 6:02 am

Disruptive Passenger Clip AC YYZ - LHR

Sat Dec 15, 2007 6:37 pm



Quoting Georgebush (Reply 81):
So your saying that anyone who commits suicide and at the same time also takes the lives of 200 passengers IS in perfect mental health??

The worst serial killers in history were at good mental health. I read a book once which showed the " brilliance of such killers" in their doing. They are ill for sure but have a clear mind.

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 81):
Okay a man of middle eastern decent screaming about wanting to die isn't going to scare your pants off?? If you were on this flight, you wouldn't be thinking about 9/11 at all? Give me a break, most of those passengers had to have been pretty scared, and you can tell from how they were trying to restrain him when he stood up.

He is not from the middle-east. First look at him.... not the typical arab, Second listen to him..... typical slang/voice of someone from India or Pakistan.

I would not be scared especially since he is locked down by the 2 men. Are both from the crew?
 
ripcordd
Posts: 1082
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2000 1:12 pm

Disruptive Passenger Clip AC YYZ - LHR

Sat Dec 15, 2007 7:03 pm

Ok i did not see any FA'S at all it looked like all passengers talking to him and I give them great credit cause if that happen on a US flight without and FAM'S the passengers would have prob beat the guy to death. So I don't think AC did anything it was all passengers.
 
threepoint
Posts: 1294
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:49 am

Disruptive Passenger Clip AC YYZ - LHR

Sat Dec 15, 2007 8:07 pm



Quoting 777STL (Reply 86):
no matter how superior and more progressive you Canadians think you are over us Americans, incidents like this show you to be full of crap and hypocritical.

Careful. You're wielding a pretty broad brush there, which indicates to me you actually have no idea what all 33 million of us think.

Quoting 777STL (Reply 86):
I wholeheartedly disagree...never going to happen.

I certainly hope not. But you're living in a dream world. And whether or not people gain access to the flight deck is irrelevant, as there are plenty of ways to bring down an airplane.

Quoting RIPCORDD (Reply 88):
Ok i did not see any FA'S at all it looked like all passengers talking to him...So I don't think AC did anything it was all passengers.

The man on the far side of the passenger was identified as an AC crewmember by forum members who would know. There were at least two other AC staff in the video.

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 81):
Okay a man of middle eastern decent screaming about wanting to die isn't going to scare your pants off??

To answer your question, no, not at all. I think others have indicated to you that the gentleman is not 'middle eastern', and even if he were, why would that suggest a higher threat than if he were of a different ethnicity? Ben, I think you need to go out and experience the world a bit more. Sadly, you seem to have formed opinions based upon what you have heard as opposed to what you have experienced.
The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
 
ualcsr
Posts: 381
Joined: Sat May 27, 2006 12:53 pm

Disruptive Passenger Clip AC YYZ - LHR

Sat Dec 15, 2007 8:47 pm

Did anyone here finally find out what actually happened after the incident in this video? And more interestingly, I'd like to know what happened before it. I'm surprised no one has mentioned it, but I wonder if alcohol was in any way involved in this.
 
777STL
Posts: 2770
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 8:22 am

Disruptive Passenger Clip AC YYZ - LHR

Sat Dec 15, 2007 8:54 pm



Quoting Threepoint (Reply 89):
Careful. You're wielding a pretty broad brush there, which indicates to me you actually have no idea what all 33 million of us think.

Yes I am, but that goes both ways as well. I know fully well that's not how all 33 million of you think, but somehow, it seems every thread here pertaining to something in Canadian aviation devolves into some kind of slam on US foreign policy. I spend very little time on here but this is the second one I've seen in the past three days. I was making a generalization, yes.

Quoting Threepoint (Reply 89):
I certainly hope not. But you're living in a dream world. And whether or not people gain access to the flight deck is irrelevant, as there are plenty of ways to bring down an airplane.

Could it happen? Sure. Would it be successful? Doubt it. We'll agree to disagree, but that's my viewpoint.
PHX based
 
OHLHD
Posts: 2903
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 6:02 am

Disruptive Passenger Clip AC YYZ - LHR

Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:05 pm



Quoting Ualcsr (Reply 90):
Did anyone here finally find out what actually happened after the incident in this video? And more interestingly, I'd like to know what happened before it. I'm surprised no one has mentioned it, but I wonder if alcohol was in any way involved in this.

The poster of the video writes that he thinks that the passenger was provoked or encouraged to this persons paranoid behaviour by other passengers.
 
georgebush
Posts: 488
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:15 am

Disruptive Passenger Clip AC YYZ - LHR

Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:09 pm



Quoting Threepoint (Reply 89):
Ben, I think you need to go out and experience the world a bit more. Sadly, you seem to have formed opinions based upon what you have heard as opposed to what you have experienced.

Just because I happen to disagree with you, does not mean that I have not formed my own opinions about the world. I have strong opinions indeed, but they are my own. If you watch that video again, when the guy starts to stand up you can see how hard it was to pull him back down. Those guys may not have been scared, but definitely concerned. In my un-experienced opinion of the world, if your that unstable to fly you shouldn't be on the plane. I can't believe what a nonchalant attitude you Canadians have toward a situation this serious!
Al Gore invented global warming.
 
SafeFlyer
Posts: 561
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 6:41 am

Disruptive Passenger Clip AC YYZ - LHR

Sat Dec 15, 2007 10:12 pm

Found an interesting article today on this specific video in the Ottawa Citizen saying that this had started as the aircraft was approaching LHR, which would explain why they didn't divert according to the article. If you notice at the start of the video, that would also explain as to why the PTVs have been switched off. They probably had already started their descent.

'Safe
 
Emirates773ER
Posts: 1325
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 9:10 am

Disruptive Passenger Clip AC YYZ - LHR

Sat Dec 15, 2007 10:22 pm



Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 71):

= I am not saying one way or the other ... but how can you be assured that this person was "not a muslim, or at least not a practicing one". All he says in the video is something about white people and something about everyone is against muslims. Do you have insight on what the situation is?



Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 80):
.there are subtleties which many people such as Emirates773ER and myself were able to pick up...its like that with many people of many nationalities.....My Brit friends and relatives who live in London can tell if someone is from Manchester or even Birmingham just by their comments, language style, etc...again, its like that all over the world...obviously neither Emirates773ER nor myself are 100% sure, but I can say with a high degree of certainty he's not...



Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 83):
the man isn't of middle eastern descent......that is why Emirates773ER and I can say with good certainty he's probably not a Muslim....

Very true Jacobin, I could not have put it better myself.

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 93):
Just because I happen to disagree with you, does not mean that I have not formed my own opinions about the world. I have strong opinions indeed, but they are my own. If you watch that video again, when the guy starts to stand up you can see how hard it was to pull him back down. Those guys may not have been scared, but definitely concerned. In my un-experienced opinion of the world, if your that unstable to fly you shouldn't be on the plane. I can't believe what a nonchalant attitude you Canadians have toward a situation this serious!

Reading your opinions one can easily make out your line of thought. Hell, you could not even tell if the guy is middle eastern or from the sub-continent, muslim or hindu, sadly you would have added more panic onto the plane other than anything else.
The Truth is Out There ---- Face It!!!!!
 
threepoint
Posts: 1294
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:49 am

Disruptive Passenger Clip AC YYZ - LHR

Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:46 am



Quoting 777STL (Reply 91):
Yes I am, but that goes both ways as well.

Then in future, please direct your comments towards the specific people you disagree with, rather than towards a country as a whole. Two wrongs does not make a right, as I learned back in grade 3.

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 93):
If you watch that video again, when the guy starts to stand up you can see how hard it was to pull him back down. Those guys may not have been scared, but definitely concerned.

Those two guys were each bigger and stronger than the passenger and seemed to have no physical difficulties at all in limiting his movement. Nor did they seem to view the situation as anything more than an inconvenience, provided he remained in his seat (which was precisely what they ensured).

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 93):
I can't believe what a nonchalant attitude you Canadians have toward a situation this serious!

He was distraught, not hostile, and I failed to see any nonchalance at all. What I saw was a commendable response to a difficult scene. The person in most 'danger' was the disturbed passenger himself. Would you prefer we resort to violence and hostility in the next situation? How would that improve the outcome Ben? Thank heavens you were not on that flight, because as Emirates773ER alludes in the above post, they would then have had to restrain two unruly passengers.

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 93):
you Canadians

See my reply to 777STL above. We have 33 million residents, with approximately 33 million different personalities, attitudes and views. Generalities tend to make one appear ill-informed at best.
The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
 
iairallie
Posts: 2326
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 5:42 am

Disruptive Passenger Clip AC YYZ - LHR

Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:32 am



Quoting Threepoint (Reply 96):
Generalities tend to make one appear ill-informed at best.



Quoting Threepoint (Reply 96):
Then in future, please direct your comments towards the specific people you disagree with, rather than towards a country as a whole

What excellent advice. One that EVERYONE should heed including all those who made snarky comments about Americans.

Quoting Threepoint (Reply 96):
He was distraught

Distraught people can become very dangerous especially in the unique aircraft environment.
Enough about flying lets talk about me!
 
threepoint
Posts: 1294
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:49 am

Disruptive Passenger Clip AC YYZ - LHR

Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:38 am



Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 97):
Distraught people can become very dangerous especially in the unique aircraft environment.

Nobody is arguing that point. What many seem to be failing to understand is that you don't have to beat the piss out of a distraught person to neutralize them. The level of response we watched matched the level of threat.
The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
 
User avatar
czbbflier
Posts: 866
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:28 pm

Disruptive Passenger Clip AC YYZ - LHR

Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:05 am



Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 97):
What excellent advice. One that EVERYONE should heed including all those who made snarky comments about Americans.

Here. Here.

I hope the guy is OK.... assuming the flight was on descent into LHR, lucky this didn't happen 1/2 way across the Atlantic... can you imagine sitting next to a raving lunatic like that for 3 hours?!
 
QantasHeavy
Posts: 277
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 4:47 pm

Disruptive Passenger Clip AC YYZ - LHR

Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:12 am

Any time anyone is acting irrationally on a commercial airliner there is serious cause for concern. How many times do the police deal with people in this condition on the ground and things turn ugly. Obviously this guy had some mental issues (panic attack, whatever) but that does not reduce the risk of what could happen... and the air crew certainly should take whatever means necessary to ensure things did not escalate. Looks like the AC crew did a good job.

Saying a US carrier would have over-reacted is pretty silly. Over reaction is relative to the situation... when you have had people ram your planes into buildings or try to light fuses in your shoes it will change your perspective. What is an over-reaction? Stopping to kick the guy off the plane would be fine by me as a passenger -- I'd rather get there late than listen to him scream for 5 hours and be wondering what we was on about.

From another persepctive, one on the plane might be wondering if he knew something about the flight such as maybe he was a suicide bomber having second thoughts. If someone were acting like that in a restaurant it would be worrisome... 35,000 feet over the North Atlantic that would be very scary to witness as a passenger.

It is so easy to comment on a situation third-hand and think "no big deal" as so many heros on a.net often do... those are the same guys who say losing an engine on take-off is just another day at the office an "no big deal" because they can do it on MS Flight Simulator... and that every real ATPilot does it in the sim a few times per year (but most never do it for real in their entire careers).

I have been on an AA flight where a passenger went nuts... the crew was very professional and calming. It was post 9-11 and no one beat him up. The captain came back and said if he did not straighten up he'd make a detour so the guy would go to jail. Two big bikers on the flight went and sat on either side of him and convinced him to chill out. The captain got applause (as did the bikies!) from the rest of the cabin. Have also been on an AA 767 in some bad turbulence when two passengers got up and started walking to the front of the cabin after being told by the FAs to sit down. Two big guys in the front of the plane shifted in their seats and looked back, one postured to stop them (obviously air marshall/s) and the passengers suddenly lost the urge to walk the aisles. People not behaving normally makes other nervous on the flight... with good reason. 99% of the time it is harmless, but we don't have security for the norm -- it is for the small chance that there is going to be an issue. And that thought is also what lingers in everyone's mind. You don't really know what other people are up to.

If that the scene in the video had happened on most major carriers I think the cabin crew would have repsonded with equal professionalism as AC. Had this happened on EL AL, well maybe a few bruises  box 

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos