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UA777lover
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Is United Going To Start To Replace Metal?

Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:10 pm

With all the announcments of mostly non US operators ordering new planes, I was wondering when (and IF) United will start to replace some (or just get more of!) their planes? Would be nice to see some NG 737's in the fleet. The current fleet of 733's and 735's are starting to show their age! And as always, would LOVE to see some more 777's in the fleet.
 
rampart
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RE: Is United Going To Start To Replace Metal?

Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:37 pm

Thought your title had something to do with United branching off into the alchemy industry, "replacing metal"... with what?? changing tin to gold, aluminum to platinum, titanium into nylon?

Seriously, wasn't there a thread the other day talking about how UA wasn't in the market for replacing anything until the early-mid 20teens?

-Rampart
 
tommy767
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RE: Is United Going To Start To Replace Metal?

Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:54 pm



Quoting Rampart (Reply 1):
Seriously, wasn't there a thread the other day talking about how UA wasn't in the market for replacing anything until the early-mid 20teens?

I read that thread too. UA should replace their classic 737 interiors because every trip report I see on this forum looks like the planes are falling apart. With that said, UA has some pretty nice 757 interiors with comfy Y seats and seem to be holding up nicely. Much better than AA's Y 757 seats.
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BP1
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RE: Is United Going To Start To Replace Metal?

Fri Dec 14, 2007 7:17 pm

United does not want airplane orders on the books right now because that is too much of a liability for the suitor that might look to purchase them. If the potential suitor flies mostly Airbus and UA puts in a big Boeing order they might not be as attractive to the suitor. In addition, the balance sheet of Tilton's company looks more attractive without those planes on the books.

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Stitch
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RE: Is United Going To Start To Replace Metal?

Fri Dec 14, 2007 7:20 pm

UA execs have said they are not looking at new widebodies until 2012 or so at the earliest.

They have some four dozen or so A319/A320s on deferral, so they could continue replacing their remaining 733s and 735s at any time.
 
zvezda
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RE: Is United Going To Start To Replace Metal?

Fri Dec 14, 2007 7:43 pm



Quoting Stitch (Reply 4):
They have some four dozen or so A319/A320s on deferral

UA have 42 A319/A320s on deferred order. The last I heard, they were planned for delivery 2011-2015. Whether or not and how many rope-start 737s will be retired concurrently will depend on market conditions at the time.
 
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Pellegrine
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RE: Is United Going To Start To Replace Metal?

Sat Dec 15, 2007 5:28 am

IMHO, with the new interiors coming UA doesn't need to replace anything, their 744s and 772s can keep up with the best of them, except...

Quoting Tommy767 (Reply 2):
UA should replace their classic 737 interiors because every trip report I see on this forum looks like the planes are falling apart.



Quoting Zvezda (Reply 5):
UA have 42 A319/A320s on deferred order. The last I heard, they were planned for delivery 2011-2015.

That answers that.  Smile
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SXDFC
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RE: Is United Going To Start To Replace Metal?

Sat Dec 15, 2007 11:41 pm

How old are the UA 737s around now anyways? I know the 735s I am sure are probably around 13 years old maybe? I think the oldest 772- is what 11? I am sure I am wrong, but one thing that I have seen is that UA fly's their planes around for wile.
 
Bicoastal
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RE: Is United Going To Start To Replace Metal?

Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:08 am

I love it. The subject of United replacing its aircraft is coming up as often as everyone's favorite multi-thread topic: "When will NW replace its DC-9s?"

Maybe we should do a search before posting??
Airliners.net has many forums. It has spell check and search functions. Use them before posting!
 
Asiaflyer
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RE: Is United Going To Start To Replace Metal?

Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:50 am

Hi,
This topic was intensively discussed in this thread:
Rumor: United Airlines: No New Planes Till 2017 (by RoseFlyer Dec 4 2007 in Civil Aviation)?
 
kl911
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RE: Is United Going To Start To Replace Metal?

Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:00 am

Well, with 4 billion cash on hands.... Airbus all the way I think..
 
777ER
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RE: Is United Going To Start To Replace Metal?

Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:07 am



Quoting KL911 (Reply 10):
Well, with 4 billion cash on hands.... Airbus all the way I think..

Shorthaul I can see going Airbus, but long haul, I can see staying Boeing for a long time
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kl911
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RE: Is United Going To Start To Replace Metal?

Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:11 am



Quoting 777ER (Reply 11):
Shorthaul I can see going Airbus, but long haul, I can see staying Boeing for a long time

true, but i was reacting on the old 737 replacements.
 
toxtethogrady
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RE: Is United Going To Start To Replace Metal?

Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:13 am

Quoting UA777lover (Thread starter):
With all the announcments of mostly non US operators ordering new planes, I was wondering when (and IF) United will start to replace some (or just get more of!) their planes? Would be nice to see some NG 737's in the fleet. The current fleet of 733's and 735's are starting to show their age! And as always, would LOVE to see some more 777's in the fleet.

United management has already gone on record as saying they are going to be reducing fleet and are not interested in new airplanes. They have shown an interest in International (well, hasnt everybody?) and if they add domestic capacity, it will be regionals flying 70-seaters.

Northwest still has DC-9's in their fleet. United is in no hurry to replace their 737's and A320's.

[Edited 2007-12-15 17:15:10]
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Is United Going To Start To Replace Metal?

Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:14 am

I guess we need to add this up there next to the "When will NWA replace its DC-9" thread soon  Yeah sure

As posted in reply 9 there was recently a long thread on this.

For the 737s, understand that about half the fleet will get cabin's refurbishment in addition to new coach seats that will be rolled out across the narrow body fleet in the coming two years.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
kl911
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RE: Is United Going To Start To Replace Metal?

Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:20 am



Quoting Laxintl (Reply 14):
For the 737s, understand that about half the fleet will get cabin's refurbishment in addition to new coach seats that will be rolled out across the narrow body fleet in the coming two years.

Hmmmm. To me that doesn't sound smart. Fuelburn on the older UA 737's is high compared to new Airbus replacements. Why not replace the oldest 737's with A319/320?

4 billion on cash is enough..  Smile
 
SPREE34
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RE: Is United Going To Start To Replace Metal?

Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:24 am



Quoting UA777lover (Thread starter):
Would be nice to see some NG 737's in the fleet.

Not for United! They don't fit the present fleet plan, and UA doesn't need airplanes.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Is United Going To Start To Replace Metal?

Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:37 am



Quoting KL911 (Reply 15):
Fuelburn on the older UA 737's is high compared to new Airbus replacements. Why not replace the oldest 737's with A319/320?

Simple... ownership cost.
It would take many many years to earn back the 319/320 operational savings with their much higher ownership cost versus the current mostly depreciated 737 fleet. Look at how NWA has kept its much older DC-9s around and AA keeps a huge MD-80 fleet.

In addition about 50 of the 737s are on leases which the carrier can begin shedding as needed as soon as this winter.

United has said on multiple occasions they are not interested in the current generation of narrow bodies and will wait till mid the next decade to see what Airbus and Boeing come up with.

Anyhow -- many of United 737s are newer then some A320s in the industry whom has been around for 20 years now itself. Most the 737s are circa early 90s.
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jacobin777
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RE: Is United Going To Start To Replace Metal?

Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:50 am



Quoting Toxtethogrady (Reply 13):
United management has already gone on record as saying they are going to be reducing fleet and are not interested in new airplanes



Quoting BP1 (Reply 3):
United does not want airplane orders on the books right now

..not to disappoint anyone here...but I'll take the report from atwonline.com..

"He (Chairman and CEO Glenn Tilton) said he sees the 777-200LR as an excellent aircraft for UA and he also will have a look at the 747-800. "

Quoting BP1 (Reply 3):
for the suitor that might look to purchase them

..why do you believe its UA that will be acquired?

Quoting KL911 (Reply 10):
Well, with 4 billion cash on hands.... Airbus all the way I think..

....or Boeing all the way... Smile
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SXDFC
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RE: Is United Going To Start To Replace Metal?

Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:07 am



Quoting Laxintl (Reply 17):
Anyhow -- many of United 737s are newer then some A320s in the industry whom has been around for 20 years now itself. Most the 737s are circa early 90s.

Its the interiors on them that make them look like they came off the NWA DC-9s  Wink
 
frontierflyer
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RE: Is United Going To Start To Replace Metal?

Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:14 am

Any growth or replacements will be on the backs of those dreadful RJs. It won't be too long before there is more regional flying than mainline domestically. UA is just waiting for someone to buy their sorry ass, the easy way out. UA has such great potential to be a leader in the industry but have become stagnant. Aviacsa 737-200s are in better shape than those UA 737s. I wonder how long those frequent flyers are going to put up with those RJs before they realize they can fly "real jets" with someone else.
 
UnitedTristar
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RE: Is United Going To Start To Replace Metal?

Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:17 am



Quoting Tommy767 (Reply 2):
UA should replace their classic 737 interiors

This will be happening VERY soon. The worst 5 will enter MX very soon for a deep clean...refreshed bulkheads, cabin walls and bins...new carpets and new seats (leather).

UA has said several times they are not interested in buying the older technology aircraft that are on the new market now. If they were to buy aircraft now, say airbus, they would be obsolete in just a few years when Boeing will be selling its next generation 737 replacement. As you can see from UA's current fleet it makes more since for them to hang on the older 737's until they can get the new technology. I would look for a large UA launch order for either the new Boeing or Airbus to replace the entire 737 and eventually Airbus fleet.

-m

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LAXintl
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RE: Is United Going To Start To Replace Metal?

Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:34 am



Quoting Frontierflyer (Reply 20):
dreadful RJs

I would not call the 3 class ExPlus EMB-170 or CRJ-700 'dreadful' by any measure.

They both have been received very well by the public and successfully operate along side or can replace mainline flying.

UA will have about 20 additional 70 seaters arrive from Skywest, Mesa and Republic in '08 and '09.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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comairguycvg
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RE: Is United Going To Start To Replace Metal?

Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:35 am



Quoting Rampart (Reply 1):
Thought your title had something to do with United branching off into the alchemy industry, "replacing metal"... with what?? changing tin to gold, aluminum to platinum, titanium into nylon?

 checkmark  LOL....good one!
Worked at: CV62, RJTA, KNLC, CV63, KNFL, OKAJ, KTRI, CV67, KMGE, KNQX, KVPS, KPIT, KCVG, KTYS, KATL
 
UnitedTristar
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RE: Is United Going To Start To Replace Metal?

Sun Dec 16, 2007 3:19 am

Personally I think the best thing UA can do is to pick up a bunch of the 767 non ER models that DL is dropping (at very cheep prices I hear) to replace the 2 cabin domestic aircraft. This two cabin sub-fleet is large enough to compensate for the engine difference (I think the DL birds are GE powered). This would give them the aircraft they need for Europe and if they were to start the long rumored 767 intra Asia flying.

-m

 airplane 
 
roseflyer
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RE: Is United Going To Start To Replace Metal?

Sun Dec 16, 2007 4:15 am



Quoting SXDFC (Reply 7):
How old are the UA 737s around now anyways? I know the 735s I am sure are probably around 13 years old maybe?

UA's 737 fleet ranges in age from 15 to 21 years. They are some of the oldest 737 classics.

They are being replaced, but not with mainline planes. UA is adding tons of E170s and CR7s through its express carriers.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
planemaker
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RE: Is United Going To Start To Replace Metal?

Sun Dec 16, 2007 4:35 am



Quoting Frontierflyer (Reply 20):
Any growth or replacements will be on the backs of those dreadful RJs. It won't be too long before there is more regional flying than mainline domestically.

As Laxintl said..."I would not call the 3 class ExPlus EMB-170 or CRJ-700 'dreadful' by any measure." In fact, the E-170 is the most comfortable way to fly short haul.

However, I agree with you that domestic flying, going forward, will be contracted out at ever increasing levels... and it makes sense for many reasons - even if one doesn't like the E-jets or CRJ-NGs!

Quoting Frontierflyer (Reply 20):
UA is just waiting for someone to buy their sorry ass, the easy way out. UA has such great potential to be a leader in the industry but have become stagnant.

Or they will buy someone... and depending on their consolidation partner they can still be the industry leader.

Quoting Frontierflyer (Reply 20):
I wonder how long those frequent flyers are going to put up with those RJs before they realize they can fly "real jets" with someone else.

Won't happen because the whole industry is travelling the same contracted out route.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
Flighty
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RE: Is United Going To Start To Replace Metal?

Sun Dec 16, 2007 6:15 am



Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 25):
They are some of the oldest 737 classics.

They are being replaced, but not with mainline planes. UA is adding tons of E170s and CR7s through its express carriers.

This is what I expect.

However, I am surprised nobody except WN is taking a serious look at refurbishing the 737 classics -- perhaps wingletting them and new interiors, for maybe $5 million. The passengers would adore these jets for the next 20 years. It seems fuel burn and maintenance are slowly pulling these birds down. A shame, because anybody should rather ride in a 737 than an ultra-RJ.
 
planemaker
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RE: Is United Going To Start To Replace Metal?

Sun Dec 16, 2007 6:31 am



Quoting Flighty (Reply 27):
A shame, because anybody should rather ride in a 737 than an ultra-RJ.

Rather ride in a 737, why?... because the seats are narrower, or to be stuck in a middle seat, or taking longer to board and disembark...  Smile
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
platinumfoota
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RE: Is United Going To Start To Replace Metal?

Sun Dec 16, 2007 7:38 am

I'm sure United wont be replacing their 757's anytime soon, it has been said that they will start working on domestic interiors by 2009. Wonder what they have in mind.
Never forget United 93
 
UAL777UK
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RE: Is United Going To Start To Replace Metal?

Sun Dec 16, 2007 9:05 am

I am not convinced we shall see any of the deferred A319/320, join the UA fleet, IMHO they will just used as a bargaining tool for an Airbus order in the future. I would say also that I agree with the comments made my Jacobin777, UA will stay with Boeing for longhaul and that we will see the 747-800 in UA'a fleet at some time in the future and I would love to see the 777LR so we can see those India routes opened up from the west coast.
 
frontierflyer
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RE: Is United Going To Start To Replace Metal?

Sun Dec 16, 2007 3:35 pm



Quoting Laxintl (Reply 22):


Quoting Frontierflyer (Reply 20):
dreadful RJs

I would not call the 3 class ExPlus EMB-170 or CRJ-700 'dreadful' by any measure.

They both have been received very well by the public and successfully operate along side or can replace mainline flying.

UA will have about 20 additional 70 seaters arrive from Skywest, Mesa and Republic in '08 and '09.

i should have been more specific, those dreadful crj-200s. UA still has a boat load of them operating. I was shocked to see some doing DEN-SLC runs.

Quoting Planemaker (Reply 26):
Won't happen because the whole industry is travelling the same contracted out route

I would not say the whole industry. WN and to some extent B6 are not contracting out. I for one would not put the E jets iin the same catagory as those crj, those are some comfy rides.
 
HOOB747
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RE: Is United Going To Start To Replace Metal?

Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:04 pm



Quoting Laxintl (Reply 22):
I would not call the 3 class ExPlus EMB-170 or CRJ-700 'dreadful' by any measure.

They both have been received very well by the public and successfully operate along side or can replace mainline flying.

You're right, they're not dreadful, but where they have replaced 737s at sites like CMH, capacity has increased since the switch and then what will United do, add a second RJ to handle it? And if talking to other passengers is any indication, the ERJ's have NOT been very well received by the flying public. Everyone seems to be ticked at the equipment downgrade.
I love dem planes....
 
planemaker
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RE: Is United Going To Start To Replace Metal?

Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:31 pm



Quoting Frontierflyer (Reply 31):
i should have been more specific, those dreadful crj-200s. UA still has a boat load of them operating. I was shocked to see some doing DEN-SLC runs.

Yes, tons of CRJ-200s still out there but don't blame the airlines. They would drop them if they could but Scope Clauses prevail!

Quoting Frontierflyer (Reply 31):
I would not say the whole industry. WN and to some extent B6 are not contracting out. I for one would not put the E jets iin the same catagory as those crj, those are some comfy rides.

LCCs are not the majors that we are talking about.

Quoting HOOB747 (Reply 32):
Everyone seems to be ticked at the equipment downgrade.

E-jets an equipment downgrade? How can everyone be ticked off at having an E-jet vs a 737??
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
HOOB747
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RE: Is United Going To Start To Replace Metal?

Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:40 pm



Quoting Planemaker (Reply 33):
E-jets an equipment downgrade? How can everyone be ticked off at having an E-jet vs a 737??

From what they tell me, they hate the 1-2 seating, no overhead space, having to check slightly larger bags at the aircraft door, having to walk down 2 or 3 levels of stairs to get to the tarmac, the having to navigate the tarmac to arrive at the plane, then having to climb steep steps to finally board the aircraft. And this can be in inclement weather. So, I can understand why this ticks many passengers off when trying to get to any of the hubs that CMH doesn't serve.

Myself, I don't care, I look forward to my FINAL destination, not the next hub. But everyone I fly with can't stand the newly instituted RJs.
I love dem planes....
 
planemaker
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RE: Is United Going To Start To Replace Metal?

Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:56 pm



Quoting HOOB747 (Reply 34):
From what they tell me, they hate the 1-2 seating, no overhead space, having to check slightly larger bags at the aircraft door, having to walk down 2 or 3 levels of stairs to get to the tarmac, the having to navigate the tarmac to arrive at the plane, then having to climb steep steps to finally board the aircraft. And this can be in inclement weather. So, I can understand why this ticks many passengers off when trying to get to any of the hubs that CMH doesn't serve.

You are mixing up your designations. An E-jet is not an ERJ... and it was E-jets, and CR7/9s that your original response was about...

Quoting HOOB747 (Reply 32):
Quoting Laxintl (Reply 22):
I would not call the 3 class ExPlus EMB-170 or CRJ-700 'dreadful' by any measure.

Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
zvezda
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RE: Is United Going To Start To Replace Metal?

Sun Dec 16, 2007 9:43 pm



Quoting KL911 (Reply 15):
Fuelburn on the older UA 737's is high compared to new Airbus replacements.

That's true on longer routes, but on very short routes the much lighter weight of the old rope-start 737s makes up for a lot of that. That's why UA use their A319/A320s from DEN to the east coast and from ORD to the west coast and their 737s mostly for much shorter routes.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Is United Going To Start To Replace Metal?

Sun Dec 16, 2007 9:50 pm



Quoting HOOB747 (Reply 34):

I believe you have planes mixed up.

The new generation of 70 seater RJs offer 3 class service (F, E+, Y), have 2x2 seating in coach, tall enough to stand in, have overhead bins, and park at jetways. They indeed HAVE been very well received by the public in customer surveys often out scoring mainline jets.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
HOOB747
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RE: Is United Going To Start To Replace Metal?

Sun Dec 16, 2007 10:25 pm



Quoting Planemaker (Reply 35):
You are mixing up your designations. An E-jet is not an ERJ... and it was E-jets, and CR7/9s that your original response was about...

My mistake, thank you for pointing the difference out to me, I neglected to notice it earlier. Thank you.
I love dem planes....
 
isitsafenow
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RE: Is United Going To Start To Replace Metal?

Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:16 am

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 7):

United received their first 300 in Nov of 86 so they went into service in Dec 86 or Jan 87
United received their first 500 in late 90 so they must of went into service in early 91.

source Boeing Production Lists.
safe

[Edited 2007-12-16 19:17:09]
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