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VoodooYYC
Topic Author
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:37 am

WestJet "Forgets" UAM

Sat Dec 15, 2007 6:18 am

Oops....

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/edmonton/story/2007/12/14/westjet-girl.html

The most shocking part of this is that it was actually WJ. If most Canadian flyers heard this story, they would automatically assume the airline was AC. I know I would have...

Obviously, some refresher training is need for some WJ FA's...
 
ANother
Posts: 1833
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:47 am

WestJet "Forgets" UAM

Sat Dec 15, 2007 11:07 am

WestJet's two letter code is WS, not WJ. And I think you are being a little harsh on 'most Canadian flyers'. While you may automatically assume that only AC can provide 'bad service' I think you are making a big assumption that others would agree with you.

And, no, I'm not an AC employee - and I never have been. Taken many AC flights and have usually received good service.

And the designation for an unaccompanied minor is UM, not UAM (which sounds like a union to me)

[Edited 2007-12-15 03:09:28]
 
ACDC8
Posts: 8005
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

WestJet "Forgets" UAM

Sat Dec 15, 2007 11:10 am



Quoting VoodooYYC (Thread starter):
If most Canadian flyers heard this story, they would automatically assume the airline was AC.

Not sure about that one.

Quoting VoodooYYC (Thread starter):
I know I would have...

Of course you would, you're from Calgary ...  Wink

Glad nothing happened to the little girl.
 
wilco737
Posts: 7275
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 12:21 am

WestJet "Forgets" UAM

Sat Dec 15, 2007 11:14 am

Unbelievable that something like this happens nowadays...
Glad the girl has arrived safely at her daddy...

WILCO737 (MD11F)
 airplane 
 
FlyASAGuy2005
Posts: 3965
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:55 am

WestJet "Forgets" UAM

Sat Dec 15, 2007 11:53 am



Quoting ANother (Reply 1):
WestJet's two letter code is WS, not WJ.

Picky picky! I guess you would scold me for calling Southwest SW and not WN.

Quoting ANother (Reply 1):
And I think you are being a little harsh on 'most Canadian flyers'. While you may automatically assume that only AC can provide 'bad service' I think you are making a big assumption that others would agree with you.

I'd agree with him...

It's all a matter of perspective. Those that have had bad experiences on Air Canada would agree (like me) and othr fotunate souls like yourself won't.

Quoting ANother (Reply 1):
And the designation for an unaccompanied minor is UM, not UAM (which sounds like a union to me)

You sure do know all the official "codes".
 
ANother
Posts: 1833
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:47 am

RE: WestJet "Forgets" UAM

Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:45 pm



Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 4):
Picky picky! I guess you would scold me for calling Southwest SW and not WN.



Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 4):
You sure do know all the official "codes".

SW is Air Namibia, anyone on this forum should know that. If you don't well there are lots of sources.

If you don't know the correct code - Spell it out, don't guess. This doesn't help anyone and it doesn't make you look like a knowledgeable a.nutter.

No, I don't know all the codes - but I do know where to look.
 
wilco737
Posts: 7275
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 12:21 am

RE: WestJet "Forgets" UAM

Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:48 pm



Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 4):



Quoting ANother (Reply 5):

Do I feel some kind of anger here? I hope not... be nice guys...

WILCO737 (MD11F)
 airplane 
 
davescj
Posts: 1296
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 1:46 am

RE: WestJet "Forgets" UAM

Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:50 pm

Scary. I can't think of why the crew didn't stop the girl from getting off. When I was a minor and traveling alone, one of the crew ALWAYS told me I was to leave with NO ONE BUT HER (and yes, it was always a lady). Like this little girl, always had the big DON"T LET THE KID OFF sign around my neck. And I always got where I was going....on UA, AA, and US all three.

Dave
 
ANother
Posts: 1833
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:47 am

RE: WestJet "Forgets" UAM

Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:06 pm



Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 6):
Do I feel some kind of anger here? I hope not... be nice guys...

No, no anger - just frustration.
 
wilco737
Posts: 7275
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 12:21 am

RE: WestJet "Forgets" UAM

Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:14 pm



Quoting ANother (Reply 8):
No, no anger - just frustration.

Yeah, well, there are many people here who are "I Know everything better"! Some people want to try to tell me how to fly an MD11F and arent older than 15 Big grin hehe...
Dont be frustrated! You should enjoy this website and not being frustrated! It should be FUN Big grin

WILCO737 (MD11F)
 airplane 
 
VoodooYYC
Topic Author
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:37 am

RE: WestJet "Forgets" UAM

Sat Dec 15, 2007 5:02 pm



Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 2):
Of course you would, you're from Calgary ... Wink

That's true. You really have to be careful to avoid drinking the WS kool-aid in this city!! Those Westjetter's are everywhere...

And to all forum members, please accept my humblest apologies. Clearly, I have no idea what I am talking about, and I am sorry to have offended you all with incorrect coding. Obviously, I will be ceasing any posting activities until such time that I can become as smart as some other members of the board. And from the information I've gathered, it will apparently take many years...
 
707lvr
Posts: 457
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 3:41 am

RE: WestJet "Forgets" UAM

Sat Dec 15, 2007 5:39 pm

Am I the only one who would like to see the parents .. well, strung up is a bit harsh, chastened maybe? Imagine sending a FIVE-YEAR-OLD clear across the country unaccompanied. You'd watch closely if you sent her across the street! And they're shocked to see her in the company of a "stranger?" The crew are all old friends then? And as for the kindly man who helped the child, considering the callous and litigious nature of those parents, he put himself at considerable risk as well. They could just as easily sue him too for whatever they might choose to invent. (Yeah, I'm angry and old. Thanks for letting me type it out.)
 
davescj
Posts: 1296
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 1:46 am

RE: WestJet "Forgets" UAM

Sat Dec 15, 2007 5:51 pm



Quoting VoodooYYC (Reply 10):
I am sorry to have offended you all with incorrect coding

You didn't offend me, at least for one. And no one knows all the codes.....It just isn't possible. Don't let a few people get you down.

Me? I figure I'm lucky that I can figure out I'm leaving out of FCO. LOL

Quoting 707lvr (Reply 11):
Imagine sending a FIVE-YEAR-OLD clear across the country unaccompanied.

Isn't the airline acting in loco parentis? But you're right, the guy left himself open for a lawsuit.



Dave
 
lnglive1011yyz
Posts: 1502
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2003 12:23 pm

RE: WestJet "Forgets" UAM

Sat Dec 15, 2007 7:10 pm



Quoting VoodooYYC (Reply 10):
And to all forum members, please accept my humblest apologies. Clearly, I have no idea what I am talking about, and I am sorry to have offended you all with incorrect coding. Obviously, I will be ceasing any posting activities until such time that I can become as smart as some other members of the board. And from the information I've gathered, it will apparently take many years...

Here's some tips to posting at A.net:

1) Anyone who has been a member for more than 1 year CAN exhibit extreme social phobias, and therefore will lash out at the SLIGHTEST mistake within an aviation post.

2) Anyone with a certain flag on their name MAY be a bit over-patriotic.

3) NEVER *EVER* EVER stop posting, because someone else discourages you in one of your posts.

Take this forum just like the school yard -- there are plenty of bullies and people who think they know everything!

AS For the original post.. EVERY airline makes a mistake. Someone chose to make this a media item, and it really does deserve no time in the media at all..

The only people this is an 'event' for is the family who was affected. WS moves Unaccompanied Minors ALL The time with no concerns, and so does AC.

1011yyz
 
JetBlueGuy2006
Posts: 1482
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:38 am

RE: WestJet "Forgets" UAM

Sat Dec 15, 2007 7:19 pm



Quoting 707lvr (Reply 11):
sending a FIVE-YEAR-OLD clear across the country unaccompanied

Yeah, maybe not the smartest. I have a friend whose stepson has lived with her and his dad since he was about 4 in Michigan, and his mom lived in Florida. Whenever it would be time for him to fly down, one of them would always go with him until he was about 8 or 9.

Now, I am not saying UM are a bad idea, I think some of the blame should be put on the parents for the age of the girl, but at the same time, I definatly see where the parents are coming from. They paid the extra money to ensure that someone from the airline would look after their child and that clearly didn't happen.
 
flyf15
Posts: 6633
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 11:10 am

RE: WestJet "Forgets" UAM

Sat Dec 15, 2007 7:34 pm

This actually happens much more often than you'd think... at all airlines. I've seen it personally happen to varying degrees more than once at my airline. Its just that 99% of the time, it doesn't make the news.
 
FlyASAGuy2005
Posts: 3965
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:55 am

RE: WestJet "Forgets" UAM

Sat Dec 15, 2007 8:25 pm



Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 6):
Do I feel some kind of anger here? I hope not... be nice guys...

I guess so.

Quoting ANother (Reply 5):
SW is Air Namibia, anyone on this forum should know that. If you don't well there are lots of sources.

Well I suppose I am the first person to refer to Southwest as SW...

Quoting ANother (Reply 5):
If you don't know the correct code - Spell it out, don't guess. This doesn't help anyone and it doesn't make you look like a knowledgeable a.nutter.

It wasn't a guess. It's actually a very common way to shorten their name. What you should do though, is go on all the Jet Blue threads and flame everyone for calling them JB.

And I do agree with the above poster, it does happen quite often. Sometimes, its a breakdown in communication. The manifest should read all the unaccompanied minors (i've heard F/A's count them off all the time). It could have been the gate agent's fault. A lot of times, they'll walk them on the plane. Maybe they didn't even tell the F/A's thinking they will notice or pick up on it on it.
 
FLYACYYZ
Posts: 1820
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2004 12:13 am

AC//777-200LR New Delivery 11/30

Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:27 am



Quoting VoodooYYC (Reply 10):
And to all forum members, please accept my humblest apologies. Clearly, I have no idea what I am talking about, and I am sorry to have offended you all with incorrect coding

It's one of those peculiar a.netter traits. They love to jump on everybody who misspells or accidentally inputs a typo.

Just try spelling QANTAS with a "u". QUANTAS  sarcastic 

As pointed it out...it happens to the best of us/them. An unfortunate incident, and does not in any way diminish WS's calibre as a top-notch airline.
 
JAGflyer
Posts: 3581
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 5:31 am

RE: WestJet "Forgets" UAM

Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:36 am

Why did the FAs not notice the UM tag on the girl as the stranger walked her off the plane? I know that is something I would easily notice. If a non-WS employee is walking with a UM I would think it would raise a reg-flag...


On a side note; I would think the family would have her on a flight into YOW, not YUL as it's much closer to Pontiac, QC.

[Edited 2007-12-15 17:36:50]
 
threepoint
Posts: 1294
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:49 am

RE: WestJet "Forgets" UAM

Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:49 am



Quoting VoodooYYC (Reply 10):
Clearly, I have no idea what I am talking about, and I am sorry to have offended you all with incorrect coding.

Bollocks, you have no need to apologize. Your opinion is valued and if you don't know the codes for 200 different airports, consider yourself lucky to have a diverse set of interests (ie: a life). Welcome to Airliners.net and a big raspberry to the guy who flamed you in your first couple of posts.

Quoting Davescj (Reply 12):
But you're right, the guy left himself open for a lawsuit.

What a sad (but likely true) comment. I would hope that we can strike down enough frivolous lawsuits so that kindness and decency remain widespread in our daily lives.

But seriously, I flew cross-country solo as a kid, but no way did I go unaccompanied when I was as young as five. The parents in my own view, have nobody but themselves to question in this case.
 
ACA77LFAN
Posts: 28
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:35 am

RE: WestJet "Forgets" UAM

Sun Dec 16, 2007 4:25 am

Although I don't think this happens very often with WestJet, it shows a serious lapse of attention on behalf of the people who staffed the flight.
 
User avatar
WildcatYXU
Posts: 3242
Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 2:05 pm

RE: WestJet "Forgets" UAM

Sun Dec 16, 2007 4:44 am



Quoting 707lvr (Reply 11):
Imagine sending a FIVE-YEAR-OLD clear across the country unaccompanied.

Well, I've sent a six years old over the Atlantic accompanied only by his older siblings. I don't see anything wrong in it. Transportation of UM's is one of services offered by airlines. If you use it, you not only pay full adult fare for the kid, but you get charged an UM fee over it. For TATL flights it's usually $100 per child. So you expect a the airline to look after your kid, you've paid for it. In our case, airline employees (it was MA) picked up the children and prepared the paperwork. In the destination, they vent trough customs with them and handed them over to the designated person. They asked for a photo ID before they handed the kids over, regardless to the fact that the kids recognized their aunt and uncle...
 
zTagged
Posts: 354
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:59 am

RE: WestJet "Forgets" UAM

Sun Dec 16, 2007 6:00 am



Quoting VoodooYYC (Reply 10):
... Obviously, I will be ceasing any posting activities until such time that I can become as smart as some other members of the board. ...

tl;dr - BRB, GOING TO LURK MOAR


As for WS, they really made a big whoops by not only attending to the minor, but letting her leave with someone NOT supposed to be in custody (lack of better terms) of her. The parents shouldn't sue (frivolous lawsuit), but they should get airlines to enforce stricter UM policies, even possibly (though this could be a problem) having a specific flight attendant / gate agent looking after the UM from point A to point B. Might be cost effective, but it might work.
 
ANother
Posts: 1833
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:47 am

RE: WestJet "Forgets" UAM

Sun Dec 16, 2007 3:38 pm



Quoting Threepoint (Reply 19):
and a big raspberry to the guy who flamed you in your first couple of posts.

Thank you, much appreciated. Do you mind (and please don't take offence at my suggestion) re-reading my post where I (allegedly) flamed the OP? I hope you will see that I politely corrected the OP on two of his errors.

My message was not a flame, was yours?
 
LHR777
Posts: 645
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 6:14 pm

RE: WestJet "Forgets" UAM

Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:09 pm



Quoting ANother (Reply 23):
Thank you, much appreciated. Do you mind (and please don't take offence at my suggestion) re-reading my post where I (allegedly) flamed the OP? I hope you will see that I politely corrected the OP on two of his errors.

My message was not a flame, was yours?

I think the point was, the correction you went to great lengths to provide wasn't really necessary.

Quoting ANother (Reply 5):
SW is Air Namibia, anyone on this forum should know that.

Why should anyone on this forum know that? Not everyone is as obviously clued-up as you. Air Namibia is hardly a common carrier, so why should we all know that?

I think you need to not take airliners.net so seriously!  Big grin
 
threepoint
Posts: 1294
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:49 am

RE: WestJet "Forgets" UAM

Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:15 pm



Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 21):
Well, I've sent a six years old over the Atlantic accompanied only by his older siblings.

Apples to pears. Your 6 year old had older travel companions. This 5 year old was alone.

Quoting ANother (Reply 23):
My message was not a flame, was yours?

No, my message was a raspberry, which if mixed with a flame, could produce disastrous results.
Hopefully it serves as a reminder to longtime members to remember how they felt when learning about aviation or whichever subject and to try to get them to stop splitting meaningless hairs in an otherwise good discussion. Let's not discourage our new forum members, they bring a level of energy and fresh perspective that is at times sorely needed here.
 
ANother
Posts: 1833
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:47 am

RE: WestJet "Forgets" UAM

Sun Dec 16, 2007 6:13 pm



Quoting Threepoint (Reply 25):
Let's not discourage our new forum members, they bring a level of energy and fresh perspective that is at times sorely needed here.

So, you think it's better to let them make mistakes in ignorance than to correct them politely? No-one was splitting hares, meaningless or otherwise.

However - I get the message.
 
IADCA
Posts: 2390
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:24 am

RE: WestJet "Forgets" UAM

Sun Dec 16, 2007 6:28 pm



Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 17):
It's one of those peculiar a.netter traits. They love to jump on everybody who misspells or accidentally inputs a typo.

Just try spelling QANTAS with a "u". QUANTAS sarcastic

It's an unfortunate characteristic around here. This site often appears to be a bunch of otherwise extremely frustrated people with few social outlets and inferiority complexes, and excessive bundles of testosterone and competitiveness. Combined with their overriding passion for aviation, it gives them great pleasure to point out mistakes made by other aviation junkies; it makes them feel like they're the creme de la creme (now, as a disclaimer, I'll have to point out that I do indeed know there are accents in "creme," but am too lazy to put them in...I'd probably get corrected by exactly one of these types) of the aviation world.

For example, let's see what happens with these three sentences: "Yesterday, Delta Airlines announced new 757-200ER service to Prague from New York's John F. Kennedy Airport. Atlanta-based DAL is the largest carrier at its home Hartsfield International Airport, where it shares a hub location with Airtran Airways. AT had no comment on the announcement, as it has no international flights."

How many errors will the pedants pick up which are rather meaningless to the communication of the sentence? There are five that would get you flamed, and probably four more that would get nitpicked, one of which would be incorrect in two ways and would get counter-nitpicked.

Now, back on topic. It really shouldn't be that hard to keep track of a couple UMs on a flight like this. Considering the young age of the child, they probably should have been extra-vigilant, as kids that young are still apt to run around the cabin causing trouble, locking themselves in the lav, etc. I'm not going to pretend to know the first thing about how FAs handle UMs, so I won't speculate any further.
 
threepoint
Posts: 1294
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:49 am

RE: WestJet "Forgets" UAM

Sun Dec 16, 2007 6:33 pm



Quoting ANother (Reply 26):
No-one was splitting hares

Good, rabbit torture is quite unacceptable these days.
 
LHR777
Posts: 645
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 6:14 pm

RE: WestJet "Forgets" UAM

Sun Dec 16, 2007 10:39 pm



Quoting Threepoint (Reply 28):
Good, rabbit torture is quite unacceptable these days.

Indeed. Save the bunnies!!  Big grin

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