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WF2BNN
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Will SK Get The 737-700ER For OSL-EWR?

Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:03 pm

SK pulled out of the long haul market non-stop from OSL a few years back. They have said that they wan't to start up the OSL-EWR route again to compeate with CO - but that they don't have the right equipment to do so.

Why don't they get the 737-700ER to do these missions? Will they loose to much money since they can't carry to much (or any) cargo? Or do you think the 737-700ER would work on this route?

Mats
What goes up, must come down.
 
roseflyer
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RE: Will SK Get The 737-700ER For OSL-EWR?

Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:07 pm

The economics of operating a 737-700ER compared to CO's 757 would put SK at a big disadvantage. A one off plane like that might not work well. There are 737s flying transatlantic, but they are in a business class configuration for some specific high yielding routes. OSL-EWR isn't really a route like that.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
brissedk
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RE: Will SK Get The 737-700ER For OSL-EWR?

Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:52 pm

I honestly don't get this obsession with OSL-EWR by SK and why the question and speculation comes up every other week.

The route is very successful, presumably the best performing, CO route to Scandinavia. That is awesome! CO has perfect feed for the flight in EWR, SK has ZERO feed in EWR, limited feed in OSL. CO has the perfect plane for this route: the B757, SK doesn't have anything like it. It's a no-brainer: CO wins!

My question is: Why is it desirable or even wishful for Norwegians to get SK in to the game? They would only dilute the yields, and since the market simply isn't there for 2 premium carriers, someone would have to give, and then where would we be? Exactly where we started: 1 carrier (maybe)!

You might argue, that SK is the Norwegian flag-carrier, thus they are obliged to provide that service. Well, the real world of economics and ROI doesn't quite swing that way.

You might even compare SK to others carriers, though that really doesn't help the case of OSL-EWR

BA
Hub: LHR - leave the rest to EK and the lot. Result, quite successful longhaul business (I know about MAN-JFK and some charter-outfit in LGW, but let's not kid our selves, the business is in LHR!)

LH
Hub: FRA (building MUN and now DUS) - leave the rest to others (and the German government to protect  stirthepot  ). Result, quite successful longhaul business

AF
Hub: CDG - leave the rest to other carriers. Result, quite successful longhaul business

KLM
Hub: AMS - leave the rest to other carriers. Result, quite successful longhaul business

IB
Hub: MAD - leave the rest to other carriers. Result, quite successful niche longhaul business

And remember: ALL of these countries are bigger and/or more densely populated than Scandinavia all together.

Now SK:
Hub: CPH, OSL, ARN. Trying to win longhaul in 2 of those markets. Feeding to all 3 airports! Scattering a very limited fleet of 11 longhaul planes between 2 hubs (some would like it to be 3). Flying longhaul-personel non-rev between hubs (yes, all 3 hubs). Feeding the sparsely populated areas of Scandinavia to 3 different hubs. Result, limited longhaul business, un-profitable until recently, no clear strategy and way forward!

SK is actually the 4th largest airlinegroup in Europe, but that simply doesn't reflect on their longhaul business. SK route planning is just as scattered as their fleet planning (though the current setup between the 3 hubs try do deal with it somewhat).

IMHO SK should choose a longhaul hub, currently CPH, and stick with it! Let partner carriers (*Alliance) serve ARN and OSL. They would do a stellar job there!

And by all means, if SK finds the yields or business case to be better in either ARN or OSL they should absolutely move there. It's a business, not a charity!

In the words of Jack Welch about successful strategies: "You pick a generel direction and implement like hell!" So far SK hasn't done any of that really well.

Regards,
BJ
Frequent flyer based in CPH - mostly heading to: OSL, HEL, KEF, FAE and EWR
 
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seabosdca
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RE: Will SK Get The 737-700ER For OSL-EWR?

Tue Dec 18, 2007 7:09 pm



Quoting WF2BNN (Thread starter):
Why don't they get the 737-700ER to do these missions? Will they loose to much money since they can't carry to much (or any) cargo? Or do you think the 737-700ER would work on this route?

The 737-700ER is meant for heavily premium configurations. With the full complement of aux tanks necessary to fly truly long-haul routes, it doesn't have enough room for the number of passenger bags necessary in a normal airline configuration.

The 737-700ER is an adaptation of the BBJ for scheduled service, not a normal long-haul airliner. Likewise for the comparable A319LR.

CO has figured out the truth: the ideal aircraft for OSL-NYC, given passenger volumes and aircraft capabilities, is the 757-200. The 757 would make sense for a number of potential SK missions, but I'm guessing that the costs of introducing the type to the fleet at this late stage in its lifecycle would be too high. At least one airframer is likely to produce a true 757-200 replacement as part of its next-generation narrowbody family. Perhaps then we will see SK acquire some of them.
 
SKAirbus
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RE: Will SK Get The 737-700ER For OSL-EWR?

Tue Dec 18, 2007 7:43 pm



Quoting BrisseDK (Reply 2):
You might argue, that SK is the Norwegian flag-carrier, thus they are obliged to provide that service. Well, the real world of economics and ROI doesn't quite swing that way.

Well Braathens always saw themselves as the Norwegian flag carrier before SAS bought them.... Now i think Norwegian fills that gap... SAS is the national airline of Norway but not the flag carrier... Sounds complicated i guess!

But I think SAS will sooner or later order the A330-200 for the lower yealding longhaul routes.. Personally i think if any SK longhaul route is going to work from OSL it will be BKK.. It is probably the biggest longhaul destination for Norwegians who currently rely on charter traffic or transitting through CPH or ARN... Maybe SAS will consider that instead of setting up an OSL-EWR route again? It has failed plenty of times and now that there is another airline on this route, surely it will look quite bleak for SAS to start it again... Unless maybe they buy a few A330-200s...
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LTU932
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RE: Will SK Get The 737-700ER For OSL-EWR?

Tue Dec 18, 2007 7:56 pm



Quoting Seabosdca (Reply 3):
The 737-700ER is meant for heavily premium configurations. With the full complement of aux tanks necessary to fly truly long-haul routes, it doesn't have enough room for the number of passenger bags necessary in a normal airline configuration.

That's what I wanted to say. OSL-EWR on the 737-700ER would probably only work if SK introduces it as a premium service à la Privatair.
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
brissedk
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RE: Will SK Get The 737-700ER For OSL-EWR?

Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:03 pm



Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 4):
Personally i think if any SK longhaul route is going to work from OSL it will be BKK

BKK would probably work very well out of OSL, but it should be done by TG, not SK. Paddling those limited numbered longhaul planes between 3 hubs is simply not sound business. SK needs more focus, not more complexity.

I agree with you that SK should get some 332, or better yet 787-8, to start new routes, but why on earth would you want SK to start

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 4):
lower yealding longhaul routes

??? They should focus on higher yielding routes like HKG, ICN and the likes.

Regards,
BJ
Frequent flyer based in CPH - mostly heading to: OSL, HEL, KEF, FAE and EWR
 
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LN-MOW
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RE: Will SK Get The 737-700ER For OSL-EWR?

Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:15 pm



Quoting LTU932 (Reply 5):
That's what I wanted to say. OSL-EWR on the 737-700ER would probably only work if SK introduces it as a premium service à la Privatair.

So all that remains is to find enough people willing to pay the premium fare! Forget it ...
- I am LN-MOW, and I approve this message.
 
SKAirbus
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RE: Will SK Get The 737-700ER For OSL-EWR?

Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:39 pm



Quoting BrisseDK (Reply 6):
??? They should focus on higher yielding routes like HKG, ICN and the likes.

well a low yealding route on a 333 could be a higher yealding route on a 332.... But we'll see... Maybe TG could start doing what PIA do and continue to OSL after CPH... i.e. OSL-CPH-BKK... although this depends how well the CPH route does... Maybe they could add an extra daily departure to make up for passengers boarding in OSL... All this is speculation however!!

But if SAS are going to go for an NG longhaul aircraft I think it will be the A350-800 or -900.. It fits perfectly into their current fleet setup but these aircraft won't be ordered for many years... their oldest aircraft in the current fleet are barely 7 years old.
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eaa3
Posts: 960
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RE: Will SK Get The 737-700ER For OSL-EWR?

Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:56 pm

I think SAS was considering leasing a 757-200 from Icelandair a few years ago to be able to operate this route.

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