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sfoqqaa
Topic Author
Posts: 28
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:42 am

White-Knuckle Landing For SFO Flight

Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:11 pm

http://www.ktvu.com/news/14889008/detail.html

I'm glad everyone is OK, but thought the type of aircraft was of interest  Wink

BAKERSFIELD, Calif. -- An American Airlines 727 jet on a flight from San Francisco to Los Angeles was forced to make an emergency landing in Bakersfield late Tuesday after a sensor light indicated smoke in the cargo hold.

Authorities said the short flight had been uneventful until a sensor went off and the pilot radioed the FAA to report an emergency. The plane was directly to quickly land at Bakersfield's Meadow Field.

"The plane started to drop very fast and I thought: 'This is very strange,'" an unidentified passenger told reporters. "We find ourselves here and they tell us that a sensor had gone off in the hold and they suspected a fire."

The plane was met at the airport by emergency crews and the passengers were quickly removed from the jet.

Fire crews examined the hold but found not evidence of fire. Technicians later determined the sensor had simply malfunctioned.

The 127 passengers were loaded onto a bus and driven to Los Angeles.
 
pilotpip
Posts: 2844
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RE: White-Knuckle Landing For SFO Flight

Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:13 pm

Glad to see they got their sources correct. AA hasn't had 727s for years.

Stupid media.
DMI
 
Mason
Posts: 636
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 1999 12:01 am

RE: White-Knuckle Landing For SFO Flight

Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:17 pm

Anyone familiar with Signal Detection theory? A false alarm indeed. Can you really trust anything the media reports if they can't even get one critical detail right? 727? Not even close.
 
bucky707
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RE: White-Knuckle Landing For SFO Flight

Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:34 pm



Quoting Mason (Reply 2):
Can you really trust anything the media reports if they can't even get one critical detail right? 727? Not even close.

Between 12 years in the Air Force and now 12 years of airline flying, I have been involved with, or witness to, many things that were newsworthy. Not once have I read an article in the newspaper or a magazine that got it right. Sometimes they are so inaccurate that it's laughable. I have no reason to believe articles about subjects I am not familiar with are any more accurate.
 
jasp25
Posts: 380
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:44 am

RE: White-Knuckle Landing For SFO Flight

Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:41 pm



Quoting Mason (Reply 2):
727? Not even close.

Maybe it was an MD-11. They look alike, don't they? LOL (sarcasm)

It's an MD-83. Here's the diverted flight:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/A...3/history/20071219/0247Z/KSFO/KBFL

-jasp
-peace and chicken grease!
 
jasp25
Posts: 380
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RE: White-Knuckle Landing For SFO Flight

Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:47 pm



Quoting SFOQQAA (Thread starter):
The 127 passengers were loaded onto a bus and driven to Los Angeles

. . . and got their money back.
-peace and chicken grease!
 
roseflyer
Posts: 9602
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:34 am

RE: White-Knuckle Landing For SFO Flight

Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:00 pm



Quoting Mason (Reply 2):
Anyone familiar with Signal Detection theory? A false alarm indeed. Can you really trust anything the media reports if they can't even get one critical detail right? 727? Not even close.

Well if there was a detected fire in the cargo hold on an MD80, the plane should be diverted to the nearest suitable alternate airport since MD80s aren't required to be equipped with fire suppression equipment in the cargo holds. Taking a risk on a false indicator isn't worth it.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
as739x
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Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 7:23 am

RE: White-Knuckle Landing For SFO Flight

Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:03 pm



Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 1):

I e-mailed KTVU to tell them how unprofessional this makes them look. It take 2 minutes on AA.com, Orbitz, etc. to get the type correct. I'd expect more from a paper in the 5th biggest media market. Shameful!

ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
lesmainwaring
Posts: 523
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RE: White-Knuckle Landing For SFO Flight

Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:17 pm

What I am amazed at is how people on here that get so particular about details are not detail-oriented in regards to the media, and fail to see the difference in types media. There is print media. There is television media. There is radio media. There are blogs. There is editorial. There is opinion. There are differences based on the size of the media outlet. There is differences based on the geographic location of the media. There is a big difference in a second-tier television station and an investigative magazine - just as big of difference as their is in a 727 and MD88.

To lump all media together to say things like ... "Stupid media" or "I've never read anything where they got it right," or to not even recognize that as AS739X asserts KTVU is "a paper in the fifth largest media market" when in fact it is a television station is no difference than lumping together all airlines, all pilots, all mechanics, all flight attendants, and the like.

Yeah, you know AA hasn't flown 727s in years, but the MD88 is a T-tail that is similar. Should the copy be corrected by the media outlet once an error, regardless of how small the discrepancy is, yes, it should.

But, back to the generalization. What if I came out with a statement about pilots, after there was one that was arrested for attempting to fly drunk, and said, generally, "Stupid alcoholic pilots. All they do is think of themselves and don't care about the safety of passengers."

Anyone, one good fix for angst against the media is to just not read/watch/listen to it, or whichever outlet that you - in your, what I assume to be untrained journalistic sensibilities - deem to be the problem.

Film at 11
I want something under my wheels thats plenty long and mighty dry --- Vern Demarest
 
PanAm747
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RE: White-Knuckle Landing For SFO Flight

Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:18 pm

When I lived in Bakersfield in 1992, I remember hearing and seeing a United 737 passing VERY low over the city, and making a 180 degree circle to align with runway 30R...considering how low and tight the circle was, it was obvious it was a VERY expedited landing...

I think that was the last time mainline UA equipment was in BFL.

According to flightaware.com, the plane was AA flight #1943 on December 18, 2007. The flight diverted to BFL, arriving at 7:21 PM, and then left BFL at 11:21 PM, arriving at LAX at 11:54 PM.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/A...3/history/20071219/0247Z/KSFO/KLAX

I believe it's been since 1999 that an AA jet has been at BFL. Probably got a LOT of hopes up there!!

At least the pax were treated to a new airport terminal with a jetbridge!!
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
as739x
Posts: 5220
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 7:23 am

RE: White-Knuckle Landing For SFO Flight

Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:27 pm



Quoting LesMainwaring (Reply 8):

TV,Radio,Newspaper = Media

People get their information their and the fact should be correct.

This was not a Blog, so leave that out.

ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
eghansen
Posts: 281
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:33 pm

RE: White-Knuckle Landing For SFO Flight

Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:42 pm



Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 1):
Glad to see they got their sources correct. AA hasn't had 727s for years.

Maybe it was a TWA 727.

I was watching a news report on the ABC World News Tonight a couple of weeks ago about aircraft near misses. There was footage of airplanes lined up to take off from some unnamed major airport. Included in the line-up were 2 or 3 TWA 727's. Wonder who dug up that old file footage?
Nowadays, it is hard to tell when the commercials end and real life begins
 
sfoqqaa
Topic Author
Posts: 28
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:42 am

RE: White-Knuckle Landing For SFO Flight

Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:35 am

Looks like KTVU corrected the story or at least took the 727 out of it!
 
Mason
Posts: 636
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 1999 12:01 am

RE: White-Knuckle Landing For SFO Flight

Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:52 am



Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 6):
Well if there was a detected fire in the cargo hold on an MD80, the plane should be diverted to the nearest suitable alternate airport since MD80s aren't required to be equipped with fire suppression equipment in the cargo holds. Taking a risk on a false indicator isn't worth it.

Exactly. For those who care, the Signal Detection theory states that in order to be a perfect detector/observer, we must correctly set our decision criteria so as to differentiate between the stimuli due to noise and the stimuli due to true signal plus noise. Usually, these curves overlap, so there will be some areas where the stimuli of a given intensity could either mean noise (as in this case) or true signal (a fire) plus noise.

Given this, there needs to be a careful analysis of the possible errors, such as detecting a fire when there isn't really one (false alarm) or failing to detect a fire when there really is one (miss). A hit is defined as correctly identifying a true signal, and a correct rejection is detecting no signal in the presence of noise only. So, to be perfect observers, we must maximize the number of hits and correct rejections, and minimize the number of misses and false alarms.

In this case, the consequences of a miss FAR outweigh the consequences of a false alarm, so we would set our decision criteria toward the lower end of possible stimuli intensity. If anyone is interested, I can dig up a link to a paper on this--it is very interesting.
 
AAR90
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RE: White-Knuckle Landing For SFO Flight

Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:50 am



Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 6):
Well if there was a detected fire in the cargo hold on an MD80, the plane should be diverted to the nearest suitable alternate airport since MD80s aren't required to be equipped with fire suppression equipment in the cargo holds. Taking a risk on a false indicator isn't worth it.

The plane diverted to the nearest suitable airfield; the crew discharged one of the cargo compartment fire bottles (AA MD80's have fire suppression equipment for cargo compartments); there was no risk taking on a false indicator --that was discovered POST-flight and the plane was ferried to LAX for permanent repairs.

-1943/18 N4XE SFO-LAX LNDD BFL ACCT AFT CGO FIRE WRNG LIGHT ILLUM. EMGCY DCLRD. ONE FIRE BOTTLE DISCHRGD. LNDD W/OUT INCDNT. ACFT OTS. PSGRS BUSSED TO LAX. PLACARDED AFT CGO CMPT FIRE DETECTION SYS AND RDPTD.
*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
 
QualityDr
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Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:57 am

RE: White-Knuckle Landing For SFO Flight

Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:47 am

I just looked at the report in the link (first post in the thread) and now it says "jet" rather than "727 jet" ... Ah, the beauty of the Internet! I couldn't figure out what all the hubbub was at first! Pravda is a beautiful thing...

QD
All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure. -- Mark Twain
 
HOOB747
Posts: 387
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RE: White-Knuckle Landing For SFO Flight

Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:48 am

Whenever MSNBC's "aviation expert" Lester Holt or CNN's "aviation expert" Miles O'Brien pop up on screen during some breaking news hyperventilation, I sharpen my pencil to jot down all the inaccurate nuggets that spill out from their mouths. Who says news can't be entertaining?
I love dem planes....
 
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Francoflier
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RE: White-Knuckle Landing For SFO Flight

Thu Dec 20, 2007 9:51 am

So a guy wrote an entire article about an aircraft that did a precautionary landing due to a false alarm...

mmmm'kay...

Without even going into the usual fashion general media report on aviation 'dramas', I believe this article to be detrimental to the airlines image in general. These events happen all the time, as a matter of fact, they're non-event. Now every pax to whom the same happens is going to call Anderson Cooper to tell him about his near death experience and how Air Unitedeltawest or the Boeingus A759 is outrageously unsafe.

Quoting SFOQQAA (Thread starter):
the pilot radioed the FAA

 rotfl 

'Hello FAA, send an inspector immediately, I think my license needs to be suspended'
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
halls120
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Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: White-Knuckle Landing For SFO Flight

Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:38 pm



Quoting LesMainwaring (Reply 8):
What I am amazed at is how people on here that get so particular about details are not detail-oriented in regards to the media, and fail to see the difference in types media. There is print media. There is television media. There is radio media. There are blogs. There is editorial. There is opinion. There are differences based on the size of the media outlet. There is differences based on the geographic location of the media. There is a big difference in a second-tier television station and an investigative magazine - just as big of difference as their is in a 727 and MD88

Sorry, but if you are going to report something, and you aren't sure of the factual specifics, you should simply say "an American Airlines flight from LA to SF diverted today because of....."

If you can't take time to get the details right, you should just omit them instead of looking stupid.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
FlyHoss
Posts: 534
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:20 pm

RE: White-Knuckle Landing For SFO Flight

Thu Dec 20, 2007 3:38 pm



Quoting Bucky707 (Reply 3):
Quoting Mason (Reply 2):
Can you really trust anything the media reports if they can't even get one critical detail right? 727? Not even close.

Between 12 years in the Air Force and now 12 years of airline flying, I have been involved with, or witness to, many things that were newsworthy. Not once have I read an article in the newspaper or a magazine that got it right. Sometimes they are so inaccurate that it's laughable. I have no reason to believe articles about subjects I am not familiar with are any more accurate.

Very well said.

Quoting As739x (Reply 7):


Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 1):


I e-mailed KTVU to tell them how unprofessional this makes them look. It take 2 minutes on AA.com, Orbitz, etc. to get the type correct. I'd expect more from a paper in the 5th biggest media market. Shameful!

Bravo, well done.

Quoting LesMainwaring (Reply 8):
What I am amazed at is how people on here that get so particular about details are not detail-oriented in regards to the media, and fail to see the difference in types media. There is print media. There is television media. There is radio media. There are blogs. There is editorial. There is opinion. There are differences based on the size of the media outlet. There is differences based on the geographic location of the media. There is a big difference in a second-tier television station and an investigative magazine - just as big of difference as their is in a 727 and MD88.

To lump all media together to say things like ... "Stupid media" or "I've never read anything where they got it right," or to not even recognize that as AS739X asserts KTVU is "a paper in the fifth largest media market" when in fact it is a television station is no difference than lumping together all airlines, all pilots, all mechanics, all flight attendants, and the like.

It's clear to me that the media (all types) are in such a rush to scoop the other media outlets, that accuracy is the first casualty. With their frequent errors comes distrust. With that distrust, comes lost interest and lost business (circulation and viewership).
A little bit louder now, a lil bit louder now...
 
checksixx
Posts: 1229
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:39 pm

RE: White-Knuckle Landing For SFO Flight

Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:41 pm

How is a success story that news worthy?? They did what they were supposed to do, everyone was fine, aircraft saved. A+...moving on....
 
ikramerica
Posts: 15100
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: White-Knuckle Landing For SFO Flight

Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:51 pm



Quoting Bucky707 (Reply 3):
I have no reason to believe articles about subjects I am not familiar with are any more accurate.

Man after my own heart.

Quoting LesMainwaring (Reply 8):
But, back to the generalization.

I have never, in my entire adult life, read a "straight" news article from any source, about a topic I was well versed in, that has been 100% accurate with facts or that did not leave out important information, nor one that has not been influenced by the opinion of the journalist writing the article. Ever.

Thus I will always assume that articles about topics with which I have less familiarity will also be inaccurate and biased. It's learning to read through that layer of obfuscation that can lead to the truth.

Generalizations are fine when they are fair. Bucky's generalization is fair. Humans are imperfect, and so is the press. All of the press.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
Arcrftlvr
Posts: 393
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:30 am

RE: White-Knuckle Landing For SFO Flight

Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:01 pm



Quoting LesMainwaring (Reply 8):
What I am amazed at is how people on here that get so particular about details are not detail-oriented in regards to the media, and fail to see the difference in types media.

The point is, the media, whatever medium is used, has a reputation reporting things in a rush without paying any attention to details or doing proper research. This is about not paying attention to all the details; the who, what, when, where, and how. In this case, they failed to provide the correct 'what.' Once that happens, they lose all creditibility.

Quoting FlyHoss (Reply 19):
It's clear to me that the media (all types) are in such a rush to scoop the other media outlets, that accuracy is the first casualty. With their frequent errors comes distrust. With that distrust, comes lost interest and lost business (circulation and viewership).

Exactly!!

Quoting Eghansen (Reply 11):
Maybe it was a TWA 727.

Nope; it was a Western Airlines 727 enroute from SLC to LAX....

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