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Guest

757-300

Mon Sep 04, 2000 11:08 am

with only 4 carriers having the 753 on order or in service
will any other airlines order the pencil plane
 
Delta777-XXX
Posts: 940
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2000 3:50 am

RE: 757-300

Mon Sep 04, 2000 11:13 am

Pencil plane?!?! LOL!   753 is pretty cool! They need a 754... really really long... fly-by-wire! New engines, new cockpit!   yeah... dream on Hank!  
 
tullamarine
Posts: 2484
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RE: 757-300

Mon Sep 04, 2000 11:42 am

The market for the 753 is pretty restricted and that's probably what Boeing always thought. It will only be bought by existing 757 customers who are attracted to it for reasons of commonality.

The 753 is a very long single aisle plane and this is often thought to be a major turn-off for scheduled services. The same problem afflicts the A321 but to a lesser extent.

I guess potential customers may include "welded on" Boeing customers who are looking to replace their 762s but don't want to upsize to a 764.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
Udo
Posts: 4288
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 5:16 pm

RE: 757-300

Mon Sep 04, 2000 12:11 pm

I'm sure there are many orders to come for the B753. That plane is highly economical, it will be a success.
Think of the many B762s in domestic service, they carry about the same number of passengers at much higher seat mile costs. And they are ageing.
I expect AA, DL and UA to order the plane, and possibly NW too, as a replacement of the DC-10 on some domestic routes.
TWA is an option too, we will see.


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
b-hox
Posts: 213
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RE: 757-300

Mon Sep 04, 2000 12:13 pm

Does Airbus have an answer to the 757-300?....
 
Udo
Posts: 4288
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RE: 757-300

Mon Sep 04, 2000 12:30 pm

Airbus doesn't have an answer right now, and that is the advantage of the B753...


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
Guest

RE: 757-300

Mon Sep 04, 2000 6:07 pm


Well, as I read on another thread, Lufthansa is looking into the B757-300.
So maybe they'll get it as well.

B737-700
 
airsicknessbag
Posts: 4626
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Udo: Airbus´ Answer To 753

Mon Sep 04, 2000 6:20 pm

Udo,

what about the A330-100, isn´t that an answer? Well, not right now, but prety soon?

Daniel
 
Tan Flyr
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RE: 757-300

Mon Sep 04, 2000 6:27 pm

One would think that some carriers would opt for a 753 to replace aging 762's. However, My bet is that most of the 762 operators have 763's in their fleets and will move up to 764's and just re-assign aircraft. I love the 757 also, and wonder why have not more chosen it over some of the 737 models. I was under the impression that the 752 & 753 had the lowest seat-mile cost of any aircraft. Does anyone have that info? Thanks.!
 
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RayChuang
Posts: 8138
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RE: 757-300

Mon Sep 04, 2000 7:18 pm

I think the Boeing 757-300 is aimed primarily at Inclusive Tour (IT) operators. That's why only Condor and ATA are the major users of this plane so far.

I think passengers prefer the "wide body" feel of the 767, hence the reason why most airlines would rather get a 767-300 or A330-200 for a plane with seating capacity similar to 757-300.
 
EyeSky
Posts: 317
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2000 4:52 am

RE: 757-300

Mon Sep 04, 2000 9:50 pm

I think it would be great if LH decided to go with the 753 after their trial with the Condor aircraft is complete. That would certainly shake things up a bit in the Boeing/Airbus world!
 
mlsrar
Posts: 1384
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2000 7:41 am

Airbus' Answer

Tue Sep 05, 2000 12:46 am

Our friends at Tolouse have yet to come up with an answer for the 752, let alone the 753. Boeing understood that the 753 would be a niche aircraft, so their definition of success differs vastly from what Mr. and Mrs. Aviation Enthusiats would picture it. Apart from a more advanded outboard flap system, stronger tail-skid warning system, and slightly strenghtened gear, there were no development costs involved in the 753 project, just customers waiting for delivery--go ATA...also, wait for SY to place an order through GECAS.
I mean, for the right price I’ll fight a lion. - Mike Tyson
 
jmc757
Posts: 1231
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2000 3:36 am

RE: 757-300

Tue Sep 05, 2000 1:33 am

NO ANSWER FOR 752

EMMMMMMMM well oh yes the A321

it holds about 15 less people
 
Guest

RE: 757-300

Tue Sep 05, 2000 2:56 am

B757-300 Max Capacity 289
B757-200 Max Capacity 239
A321-200 Max Capacity 220 (19 less than 752, 69 less than 753)

Trans-Atlantic Range
B757 Yes
A321 No

Trans-Continental range
B757 Yes
A321 Sometimes
 
wjcandee
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RE: 757-300

Tue Sep 05, 2000 3:30 am

While Boeing lists the maximum capacity of the 757-200 as 239, the reality is that it's not feasible to put that many folks aboard. ATA runs theirs at 216 seats in one class. That's with a relatively standard airline pitch, although the one-class arrangement makes people bitch that the legroom is insufficient. It's not, it's essentially the same as anyone else's. But there is no way that ATA could get away with cramming another 4 rows of seats into that a/c without major passenger bitching. Similarly, the 757-300 is gonna be configured with 244 seats. This a/c, configured as such, will have a relatively above-industry-standard amount of legroom in coach.

And don't forget Arkia Israeli Airlines as another operator of 757-300s.

--Bill
 
iahcsr
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RE: 757-300

Tue Sep 05, 2000 3:50 am

I know of one other major US carrier who has plans for the 753. Just if/when these plans will come to pass is the question as yet unanswered.
Working Hard, Flying Right Friendly....
 
Udo
Posts: 4288
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 5:16 pm

RE: 757-300

Tue Sep 05, 2000 10:26 am

I don't think Airbus will find an answer to the B753 soon. The shortened A330 is still a widebody and it is still too heavy to match the B753's performance.
The A331 would be good as an A310 replacement, for long haul routes. But I doubt that it will be a success on short routes.
I absolutely think that the A321 is a good competitor to the B752. The American market may be out of sight, but it catched many orders in Europe. Just think about Alitalia, Lufthansa, Air France or British Midland.
In Europe nobody needs the B752's long range, except some holiday carriers, and the small difference in the passenger capacity doesn't matter due to the fact that many A321 operators have also A320s or A319, which means savings through commonality.


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
Guest

RE: 757-300

Tue Sep 05, 2000 5:56 pm

Wjcandee,
Britannia, JMC and Monarch 757-200s all seat 235 passengers
JMC's 757-300s will seat 280 passengers.
Airtours and Monarch's A321-200s seat 220 passengers.

If you're going to compare aircraft sizes by seating capacities, you have to do it by comparing maximum high-density one class layouts. If you start to take into account individual airlines different layouts the comparisons are meaningless as it depends on legroom, number of toilets/galleys/storages/, whether there is a First/Business Class etc...

Regards
JET SETTER
 
mlsrar
Posts: 1384
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2000 7:41 am

75XV321

Tue Sep 05, 2000 7:24 pm

There are those on this forum who see the US order for 321s as a blind indication that they intend to replace their 757s on transcons. The 321s are intended to replace the 57s on the shorthaul routes requiring higher density than the 320s/734s can handle BWI-CLT, PHL-LGA. The 321 would have difficulty operating a transcon year-round with a full load...thus my post in saying Airbus has no answer for the 752...it wasn't a subversion of the 321, just an example of how the aircraft are not really competitors.
I mean, for the right price I’ll fight a lion. - Mike Tyson
 
JumboClassic
Posts: 314
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2000 4:37 am

RE: 757-300

Tue Sep 05, 2000 9:59 pm

I think one important factor should be mentioned regarding 753 replacing older 762s, 310s, etc. on shorter routes - turn around times. LH in fact is trying to prove the feasibility ot the 753 to be turned around in 45 min. The other carriers reported that at least 55 min are needed due to the longer fuselage (passengers boarding, etc.).

This factor may not be that important for charter carriers, but that's not the case with the majors. While I don't underestimate the economics of the aircraft, I doubt that it will be a common sight.
 
EyeSky
Posts: 317
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2000 4:52 am

RE: 757-300

Tue Sep 05, 2000 10:29 pm

What routes will LH be testing the Condor 753's on? What type of aircraft are LH currently using and what is its turnaround time?
 
Boeing757/767
Posts: 2183
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 1999 11:05 pm

RE: 757-300

Tue Sep 05, 2000 10:43 pm

Yes, the 757-300 has the lowest seat-mile cost of any airliner.
Free-thinking, left-leaning secularist
 
JumboClassic
Posts: 314
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2000 4:37 am

LH Testing The 757-300

Tue Sep 05, 2000 11:53 pm

EyeSky,
What I have heard is that LH is testing the 753 on FRA-MUC and the 45 min turnaround is a requirement. Curently they fly the route mostly with A300/310 and some 737/A320.
 
EyeSky
Posts: 317
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2000 4:52 am

RE: 757-300

Tue Sep 05, 2000 11:59 pm

JumboClassic,

Thanks for the info. I may be over in that neck of the woods later this fall and wanted to maybe work a flight in if it was possible.

I started another thread to see if I could get some answers to my questions. Sometimes when the threads get this long its hard to get answers.

EyeSky
 
sv11
Posts: 221
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 1999 6:26 am

RE: 757-300

Wed Sep 06, 2000 12:32 am

I expect the 767-200s will be converted to cargo aircraft and replaced with 757-300. The 767-200s are aging and might be a good candidate for cargo conversion. However I am not sure whether airlines will go this route or keep their 767-200s.

sv11

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