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B767-400ER Who Will Buy It?

Thu Sep 14, 2000 3:05 am

With today's announcement by Boeing that it has committed to produce a Longer Range version of the B764ER Who, other than Kenya Airways will be the likely buyers? For Boeing to commit to producing this aircraft they must surely be close to signing orders. I have read with interest discussion's in this forum about the B764 being a potential DC10 replacement for UA & NW. Any thoughts as to what other airlines will buy? Or will it primarily be sold to airlines looking to ultimately upgrade from the B763ER for the extra capacity it has? Any thoughts would be much appreciated.

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RE: B767-400ER Who Will Buy It?

Thu Sep 14, 2000 3:10 am

I'm sure DL will probably take a good look at it given their already large 767 fleet.
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RE: B767-400ER Who Will Buy It?

Thu Sep 14, 2000 3:24 am

This subject came up a few days ago in here. So, anyway...from what we know of the expected performance of the 764ER, I believe it has the ability to find a role at numerous carriers. I believe it would be a good choice for both UA & NW. It also, might be a good choice for some specific routes such as AA, JAL, and others that have some market specific needs(thinner, or price sensitive routes).

If the price of jet fuel continues to remain as high as it has been, there will be some slowing of the world wide econmy. Thus, a few less people flying. Putting a more specific plane, such as the 763ER,764,764ER, 752ER on thinner routes might make the difference between a profit or a loss. Some carriers, such as CO, ordering the 762er for a specific need ar an example.

So,NW, UA , and others may look to a different mix(764,764ER,772,773) of common rated aircraft to meet anticipated needs.
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RE: B767-400ER Who Will Buy It?

Thu Sep 14, 2000 4:55 am

I think Eva Air, ANA, JAL, DL, UA, Lauda Air, Britannia, LOT, CSA are likely buyers.

But one question remains:

Why does Boeing need nearly 4 years (Spring 2004) just to equip this plane with additional fuel tanks in the horizontal stabilizer to get a 600 mile range increase??? 
I mean, we've probably seen the A3XX maiden flight by that time.
Or am I missing something important here?

the WorldTraveller

RE: B767-400ER Who Will Buy It?

Thu Sep 14, 2000 4:57 am

Maybe TWA would consider it being they don't have large capacity wide body jets like the 747 & L-1011 anymore except the 767. NW I think will go for the A330.
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RE: B767-400ER Who Will Buy It?

Thu Sep 14, 2000 5:16 am

I think because that Boeing has committed to building the 767-400 Longer-Range, there will now be customers that will buy the plane.

The most likely customers: CO, DL, UA, NW, and several European airlines.

The 764LR should have the range to fly from Central Europe to most of the continental USA, and NRT to almost anywhere in eastern Asia.

Remember, NW has said they are seriously looking at a "jumbo twin" to replace their DC-10's. The 764LR may be just the plane they want, especially for NW's "fifth freedom" flights from NRT to other cities in eastern Asia.

RE: B767-400ER Who Will Buy It?

Thu Sep 14, 2000 5:24 am

One key factor is that RR engines are available. Look for british and asian orders.
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RE: B767-400ER Who Will Buy It?

Thu Sep 14, 2000 5:56 am


According to Boeing's press release, the 767-400 Longer-Range will be available with new versions of the P&W PW4000 series, GE CF6-80 series, and Rolls-Royce RB.211-524H series engines. There has been some talk of using a variant of the Trent 700 engine and a de-rated Engine Alliance GP7000 engine, but it's unlikely a GP7000 variant will be fitted on the 764LR due to the contract on the Engine Alliance consortium limiting the GP7000 to only a very few number of plane types.

RE: B767-400ER Who Will Buy It?

Thu Sep 14, 2000 6:47 am

Which press release did you read?

According to the News Release today at, the B767-400ERX will be powered by either the Rolls-Royce Trent 600 and Engine Alliance GP7172. GE and PW will not be offering separate engines, and neither RR nor GEPW will be offering derivitaves of existing 767 engines on the 767-400ERX.

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RE: B767-400ER Who Will Buy It?

Thu Sep 14, 2000 6:57 am

Russ Short on the orders site mentioned about 2 weeks ago that AA were likely to commit to the 767-400ERX in the near future with an order of around 20-25. AA have always bought stretched aircraft and this looks like being no exception. Of course Kenya Airways have stated their intention to purchase the ERX version and DL and CO have ordered and just received their first 767-400s. QF is seriously evaluating the ERX as part of it's overall fleet renewal strategy and is quite likely to be ordered in combination or instead of the 300 seater. It is also very likely that Boeing will be offering the 767-300 and maybe 200 in ERX form as well and these will have major cockpit commonality with the 777 family and 747X.

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RE: B767-400ER Who Will Buy It?

Thu Sep 14, 2000 9:52 am

I hope that UAL would get it!  
But not as a DC-10 repalcement (777s and 763s do that) but as something in the middle between the 767-300 and the 777.
It could fly to South America, and to Europe. If you operate more flights in a 764, then you can move the 777s to more pacfic trips, and put the 747s on long haul long ranged; trips.
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Why New Engines?

Thu Sep 14, 2000 10:23 am

Why can't they use the existing CF6, PW4000 or Rb211? Why sell the 767-400 with one kind of engine and the 400er with a different one?The latest press release:
says it will be offered with trent 600 or gp 7000 engines.

Is Boeing betting engine comonality will not be an issue ? They are doing the same with the 777X. Ofcourse the A340-500/600 have new engines also.

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RE: B767-400ER Who Will Buy It?

Thu Sep 14, 2000 11:31 am

Hold it right there.  

I'm REALLY surprised that Boeing was able to get Engine Alliance GP7172 for the 767-400 Longer-Range.

When the Engine Alliance was originally formed, it was only intended to build engines for the Airbus A3XX and future variants of the Boeing 747. I believe that the European Union only approved of this consortium using this stipulation.

There has been much discussions about using GP7000 series engines on the A330 and 767-400 variants, but the EU limitation may prevent the the GP7000 from being used on these smaller planes. I do know that Pratt & Whitney did build a number of PW4172 test engines but the project was subsequently shelved.

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