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Matt D
Topic Author
Posts: 8907
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 1999 6:00 am

717 New Sales

Thu Sep 28, 2000 3:56 am

I haven't heard much in the news lately about the 717. Have any new orders been placed recently? Any airlines reportedly looking at it? I know it's been struggling since its launch.....is there going to be a point where Boeing realizes that there just isn't a market for it? Or will it (hopefully) take off like the 757 did?
Who has firm orders at this point?
These are the only ones I know for certain:

AirTran
TWA
Hawaiian
Bavaria Leasing

How about any 717 variants? Any on the board?
Maybe a shortened 717-"100" to compete with the CRJ?
Maybe a "300" to replace the MD-87?
How about a "400" to replace MD-80's and -90's?
 
Guest

RE: 717 New Sales

Thu Sep 28, 2000 4:21 am


Pembroke Leasing ordered the 717 - one delivered and its with Impulse in Australia.

Aerolineas Baleares have 3 with no leasing company shown as the owner.

RR


 
Guest

RE: 717 New Sales

Thu Sep 28, 2000 5:08 am

Don't be surprised if US Airways & Northwest place an order for the 717 in the future to replace their aging DC-9/MD-80 fleets.
 
UA777
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Nov 18, 1999 4:40 am

RE: 717 New Sales

Thu Sep 28, 2000 5:43 am

Personally, I don't believe Northwest and US Airways would order the 717. With their large Airbus fleets, wouldn't it make more sense for these two airline to order the A318?
 
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sammyk
Posts: 1564
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 1999 11:31 am

RE: 717 New Sales

Thu Sep 28, 2000 5:44 am

Sales aren't that weak when you consider the competition. Airbus offered the A318 for sale in September of 1998. Since then, the A318 has won 127 orders, and the 717 has won 94. Not a HUGE difference. A number that could easily swing in Boeing's favor with just one large order. Of course, the overall orderbook for the 717 is larger, but comparing it from that date is a fairer comparison.

Current 717 customers are:

AirTran
Bavaria
Pembroke
TWA
Hawaiian
AEBAL
Turkmenistan

So I don't think this aircraft is doing THAT bad in sales as it may seem.

Sammy
 
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PanAm_DC10
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RE: 717 New Sales

Thu Sep 28, 2000 5:47 am

Also Turkmenistan Airlines recently ordered 3 and Impulse currently leases 5 from both Pembroke and Bavaria leasing. They recently announced intentions to lease an additional 5 to be delivered in 2001 though I'm not too sure of the delivery schedule.

rgds
Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
 
vlbrowser
Posts: 36
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2000 8:49 am

RE: 717 New Sales

Thu Sep 28, 2000 5:57 am

I don't think Md-80's are old! Md-80's are actually began in 1982...........
 
Guest

RE: 717 New Sales

Thu Sep 28, 2000 6:20 am

Olympic Aviation is a 717 operator in Greece and Bangkok Airlines is a 717 operator in Thailand. Do these carriers own their metal or are they leased from Pembroke and Bavaria? Also, how many do each carrier have?

Thanks, Russ
 
teahan
Posts: 4994
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 1999 11:18 pm

RE: 717 New Sales

Thu Sep 28, 2000 6:25 am

Get ready for a big order from a Canadian carrier for 20-30 B717s! Now I wonder who that could be!    

Jeremiah Teahan


Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
 
MD-90
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Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: 717 New Sales

Thu Sep 28, 2000 6:53 am

People make far too much of the advantage of staying within a family. The 717 requires less retraining and shares some common parts with the DC-9/MD-80/MD-90. That's why US Airways or Northwest might order them. It's just so much more efficient than the A318 that it makes sense, unless you want to fly really long routes, longer than, say, New York to Florida (yes, the HGW version can make it that far). The 717 uses less fuel, weighs less, has newer, better engines, a more comfortable interior, and fewer parts to break. It ought to kill the A318 once airlines realize how good it is. Boeing often isn't the first to market with a new class airplane, but it's offering is usually the best (and yes I know the 717 was mainly designed by McDonnel Douglas). I bet many of the smaller, less well known operators will be interested in it rather than an expensive Airbus. The Lockheed L-1011 was clearly superior to the DC-10, yet it was more expensive, and sold only half as well.

I think it's possible that we'll see 717s flying for American, Delta, US Airways, Continental, Midwest Express, JAS, Northwest, and I can't believe SAS didn't go for them. Why in the world did they choose the less efficient 737-600 instead?
 
sccutler
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RE: 717 New Sales

Thu Sep 28, 2000 7:08 am

It has been rumored that, as Legend's traffic grows (and it seems to be, nicely), they may well secure 717's in the relatively near future.

Boeing is offering favorable terms on 717's, are they not? Anyone in the know (as opposed to, "in the think" like me) able to confirm or deny?
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
sv11
Posts: 221
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 1999 6:26 am

RE: 717 New Sales

Thu Sep 28, 2000 7:38 am

Is a larger 130 seat model likely in the near future? This would have more potential, in my opinion.

sv11
 
Guest

RE: 717 New Sales

Thu Sep 28, 2000 7:41 am

It would be nice if Delta orders the 717 to replace the Delta Express 737-200 fleet instead of purchasing the 737-600.
 
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hawaiian717
Posts: 3464
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:46 am

RE: 717 New Sales

Thu Sep 28, 2000 7:51 am

Currently Boeing is studying three variations on the 717: A 70 seat model, and 85 seat model, and a 120 seat model. No word on if/when any of these will be offered to airlines.

For an overview of 717 orders and deliveries, including leases, see http://www.geocities.com/md95.geo/orders.html.
 
Guest

RE: 717 New Sales

Thu Sep 28, 2000 9:18 am

Good site Hawaian717, but 3 things:

1) It doesn't list your namesake's orders or lease obligations if their are any. How come?

2) It says that the first 717 for Bangkok Air won't come untill October. Bangkok already has it.

3) It doesn't list hw many 717s have been delivered to Impulse. Haven't they all?


 
Falcon Flyer
Posts: 1150
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2000 12:10 pm

RE: 717 New Sales

Thu Sep 28, 2000 9:25 am

Paper start-up Heartland Airlines is proposing 717 service.
My definition of cool ? Not trying so hard to be cool.
 
Guest

RE: 717 New Sales

Thu Sep 28, 2000 10:32 am

Actually in an article in the newspaper a few months ago, Boeing was toying with the idea of a 717-200 to compete in the lucrative regional jet market. Wouldn't be suprised if it happens.

TurboTristar
 
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hawaiian717
Posts: 3464
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:46 am

RE: 717 New Sales

Thu Sep 28, 2000 10:45 am

>> 1) It doesn't list your namesake's orders or lease obligations if their are any. How come? <<

Yes it does. Hawaiian's 13 orders plus 7 options, direct from Boeing, are listed between Bavaria and Pembroke. The list is in alphabetical order.

>> 2) It says that the first 717 for Bangkok Air won't come untill October. Bangkok already has it. <<

When the order was announced scheduled delivery was in October.

>> 3) It doesn't list hw many 717s have been delivered to Impulse. Haven't they all? <<

This is difficult to figure out because Boeing's site lists deliveries to the leasing company, not the airline that leased them.
 
Adam84
Posts: 1368
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 1999 6:10 pm

RE: 717 New Sales

Thu Sep 28, 2000 10:51 am

I dont see CO ordering it because they have the 737-500 which seats about the same as the 717.
 
cba
Posts: 4228
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2000 2:02 pm

RE: 717 New Sales

Thu Sep 28, 2000 10:55 am

CO will probably not order the 717. When the time comes to replace their 735's (which won't be for a while), they'll probably choose the 736 because of commonality. CO already operates the 733, 735, 73G, 738, and they will be taking order of their first 739 soon.

The 717 was designed for the shorter regional markets. It is more efficient than the A318, 735 or 736, but it has about half the range. The A318 and 736 have transcon range. Larger carriers will want the extra range.
 
Ryefly
Posts: 1328
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2000 7:56 am

RE: 717 New Sales

Thu Sep 28, 2000 10:58 am

Here in America I think American may order them soon, not to replace its MD-80's but rather its F-100 since its no longer in production and is costly to maintain. I am not sure about US Airways though. If they can strike a deal with Airbus I am pretty sure they would take the A318. However the 717 isn't out of the question to replace some DC-9's and F-100's. Continental, Delta, United may eventually take some down the road. Delta very possible for its Delta Express.
 
Guest

RE: 717 New Sales

Thu Sep 28, 2000 11:55 pm

I agree RyeFly that American should order the 717 to replace the F100 fleet. American is a Rolls Royce customer powering the F100, 757, & 777 so the 717 with BMW/RR 715 engines will fit right in.
 
acvitale
Posts: 1913
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 8:25 am

RE: 717 New Sales

Fri Sep 29, 2000 1:15 am

A couple corrections the 717 orders are not at 94 as stated but rather 194.

50 TWA
50 Air Tran
16 Hawaiian
12 Pembroke
10 Bavarian
3 Turkistan

Are a total of 141 I know there quite a few others I missed as well.

Also flown by at least 6 other carriers I missed.
 
Guest

RE: 717 New Sales

Fri Sep 29, 2000 1:23 am



Activale,

Boeing's website says 149 total orders for the 717 with 28 deliveries to date.

AEBAL 717-200 BR715 May 16, 2000 3
AIRTRAN 717-200 BR715 December 01, 1995 50
BAVARIA 717-200 BR715 May 04, 1998 5
HAWAIIAN AIRLINES 717-200 BR715 March 01, 2000 13
PEMBROKE CAPITAL LIMITED 717-200 BR715 December 31, 1998 10
PEMBROKE CAPITAL LIMITED 717-200 BR715 December 14, 1999 15
TRANS WORLD AIRLINES 717-200 BR715 December 31, 1998 50
TURKMENISTAN AIRLINES 717-200 BR715 July 25, 2000 3
Total: 149

Whoops formatting has gone awry - sorry.

RR
 
HyperMike
Posts: 968
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 1999 7:03 am

RE: 717 New Sales

Fri Sep 29, 2000 1:30 am

I'm still not sure what to think about US ordering the 717. It would make a lot of sense. On some of their DC9 and F100 routes like CLT-CHS, the B717 would be favored over the A318. But in other cases, why bother with the A318. Just use the A319 with a few more seats and try to sell them.
 
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sammyk
Posts: 1564
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 1999 11:31 am

RE: 717 New Sales - ACVitale

Fri Sep 29, 2000 2:01 am

AC, I posted that the 717 has gained 94 orders since the A318 has been offered, not as an overall total. I did this simply to show that A318 orders are not THAT far ahead of the 717, but only by 33 planes. I did however, state in my post that the overall order book is larger.

Sammy
 
wingman
Posts: 3925
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 4:25 am

RE: 717 New Sales

Fri Sep 29, 2000 2:09 am

Alitalia announced today that it is in discussions with Airbus and Boeing for the replacement of its MD-80s. This is for some 20-30 planes according to Reuters. I just don't see this going to the 717 regardless of operating economics over the 318. Finnmecanica is now in bed with EADS so the pressure will just be too much IMO.
 
Guest

RE: 717 New Sales

Fri Sep 29, 2000 5:23 am

Forgot two important things:

The 717 seats 110 pax the md80: 162

the 717 flies distance "a" the md80 "a squared"

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