delta2ual
Topic Author
Posts: 558
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:18 pm

New United Employee Contracts

Wed Aug 17, 2011 2:02 pm

As we're getting some of the representation issues out of the way, does anybody think that UA has even a remote chance of having contracts negotiated prior to SOC? From what I hear, some of the big issues so far are:

1) Flight Attendants: Want PMUA work rules with PMCO pay rates.

2) Pilots: Scope, scope, scope

To be honest, not sure what the big ones are for the other groups!

Any feelings, insight, etc?
From the world's largest airline-to the world's largest airline. Delta2ual
 
goldenjet707
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 12:24 pm

RE: New United Employee Contracts

Wed Aug 17, 2011 3:04 pm

Quoting Delta2ual (Thread starter):

As a LCO flight-attendant I can assure you our group does not want the LUA work rules. They are archaic and don't serve anyone but folks that want the company to suffer. At LCO we have all the flexibility to fly as much or as little as we want. We can bunch all of our trips together if we so choose and get all the flying done pronto! We don't want to go back to 1970's style work rules. And this fact is going to be a huge problem going forward!
 
style
Posts: 208
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:40 pm

RE: New United Employee Contracts

Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:35 pm

Quoting goldenjet707 (Reply 1):
As a LCO flight-attendant I can assure you our group does not want the LUA work rules.

The problem with this is the fact that s-UA has more FA's than s-CO. Therefore giving them the upper hand when it comes to voting for a new contract. I have spoken to some crews here in the UK when I fly out and I have heard from them exactly what you're saying.

Anyone have any news on the Customer Service, Ramp or Mechanic side of things?

This merge is interesting because it hasn't shown much resemblence at all to the DL/NW merge when it comes to work groups.
 
SonomaFlyer
Posts: 2216
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:47 pm

RE: New United Employee Contracts

Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:38 am

Hopefully they'll do the LCO work rules for the F/As. The pilots will be a stickier issue between seniority and scope issues but hopefully, neither side will simply dig in and say my way or the highway...
 
BCEaglesCO757
Posts: 192
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:16 pm

RE: New United Employee Contracts

Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:35 am

Quoting Reply 2):
Anyone have any news on the Customer Service, Ramp or Mechanic side of things?

I do like the fact that United cannot contract out an outstation ( or as they call it a line station ) if it has Mainline service. After that....not much else. I think they currently make less than we do. I think is the key phrase.


For now I'll say it is a rumor,as I haven't seen it for myself,but I hear grumblings of having to do shift trades. I work for you,you work for me.

At CO currently we can can trade off/on without having to work for whoever picked up for me. All you have to do is work 50% of my hours. I like the flexibility I have right now. I can work a whopping 174 or so hours ( If I don't die firstt,lol. BTW I have never come close to those type of hours. )

At CO I like being able to say you know..I'm burned out...take off the entire week next week and take an impromptu vacation. Or increase the amount of your check when you want to.

I keep hearing that you have shift trade and do the I worked for you,you work for me thing at UA. That works in favor of the company. Because essentially you can't pick up extra hours. Whether you just want to,or need to. Either way no extra $$.

At a meeting at IAH we were told on Tuesday that UA is still trying to get their contract with UA Management. IAM is waiting on when UA wants to try to do a merger contract. After thinking about it....seems very IAM of them. If UA ramp has been waiting since 2009 as the gentleman said, Seemss IAM is willing to just sit back and wait for an infinite amount of time for a combined contract. For a first meeting,the IAM guy flew a long way from ORD just to say I don't have an answer for that as many times as he did. And the Pensions ? UA bent them over the table reeeeal good on that.


Ticket Counter and Reservation ? They have no unions whatsoever. God bless them. I'm not saying unions are going to be the savior and end all,be all. But in the current business environment, who knows what will happen with above wing and Res. I see more and more of these 'contract' workers in gray at the ticket counters at work. Who are these people ? Why do we need them, and what can they do that CO or UA employees can't do ? I'm almost sure they're not CO employees. This seems to be the new corporate America. Do more with less. Squeeze blood from a turnip. If someone from those Departments at CO are on here they could better answer that.

I've had a peek under the table at UA and how they do things. I don't like what I see too much. But it's still a little early.

Where are the Debbie McCoys, C.D. McLeans, Greg Brennermans and Gordon Bethunes when you need them ?

Just my two cents on it.........
 
An-225
Posts: 3859
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2000 2:55 am

RE: New United Employee Contracts

Thu Aug 18, 2011 5:55 am

At UAL, we can trade as well. Pick up extra hours or trade off and take an impromptu vacation. It is all done electronically as well. In Denver, they instituted a cap (bastards) that nobody can work more than 104 hours in a pay period. That's not the case in other stations.

Hoping for the best possible contract for the ramp. Happy that IAM won, despite not being a huge fan of theirs.

Alex.
Money does not bring you happiness. But it's better to cry in your own private limo than on a cold bus stop.
 
tpaewr
Posts: 710
Joined: Sat May 19, 2001 9:01 am

RE: New United Employee Contracts

Thu Aug 18, 2011 6:38 am

Given what the IAM did to the F/A at TWA, I'd just as soon let the company screw me for free than to pay a union to do it for them.

When the time comes I will def be voting No Union
 
Rdh3e
Posts: 3587
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:09 pm

RE: New United Employee Contracts

Fri Aug 19, 2011 4:29 pm

Quoting BCEaglesCO757 (Reply 4):
I like the flexibility I have right now. I can work a whopping 174 or so hours

How much actual time would it take to get 174 hours? If you exclude commuting to the airport, how much time at the airport/sitting around not getting paid does it take to actually get 174 hours of paid time? And what time frame is that? per month or per pay period?

I'm just wondering because excluding commuting (for both work groups) I'd say that the average headquarters employee works about 50 hrs per week so if you average 4.3 weeks per month overall that's about 215 hours per month.

I have no idea how that equates to the actual time FAs spend not getting paid in relation to actual paid hours.
 
nyc2theworld
Posts: 246
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:58 am

RE: New United Employee Contracts

Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:49 pm

174 hours is 7 and 1/2 days. If CO's pay period is by-weekly that would work out to be over 50% of the time of actual work (not counting what was mentioned). If it is bi-monthly that is exactly 50% of the time of actual work. Maybe doable, but I highly doubt it. My guess is that it is monthly.
Always wonderers if this "last and final boarding call" is in fact THE last and final boarding call.
 
Rdh3e
Posts: 3587
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:09 pm

RE: New United Employee Contracts

Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:11 pm

Quoting nyc2theworld (Reply 8):
My guess is that it is monthly.

Can anyone confirm this? I'm really curious as to how much unpaid time it takes to earn 174 hrs as a FA.
 
nws2002
Posts: 880
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:04 pm

RE: New United Employee Contracts

Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:50 pm

Quoting rdh3e (Reply 9):
Can anyone confirm this? I'm really curious as to how much unpaid time it takes to earn 174 hrs as a FA.

It would depend on the productivity of the trips. If you link together highly productive trips you could still have plently of time off. However, when I work that many hours it usually means picking up lots out of open time, and lots of unproductive time as a result.

I would consider 85-95 hours or so to be full-time if that helps.
 
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dutchflyboi
Posts: 74
Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 5:56 pm

RE: New United Employee Contracts

Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:52 pm

Quoting rdh3e (Reply 9):
Can anyone confirm this? I'm really curious as to how much unpaid time it takes to earn 174 hrs as a FA.

Not sure what you are asking, but a PMCO F/A who flies from EWR to PEK (block to block time 27.10 hrs) would have to fly 6 trips (very unusual, although I have seen 5 trips back to back) would get 163 payable block hours. Take in account that they have to report 1.15 hrs prior to departure at the start of the 3 day trip (and 1hr on the downline station) they would have 163 paid hours of duty and 6.45 of unpaid time (not including the time it takes to deplane the flight)
 
Rdh3e
Posts: 3587
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:09 pm

RE: New United Employee Contracts

Tue Aug 23, 2011 6:04 pm

Quoting dutchflyboi (Reply 11):
Not sure what you are asking, but a PMCO F/A who flies from EWR to PEK (block to block time 27.10 hrs) would have to fly 6 trips (very unusual, although I have seen 5 trips back to back) would get 163 payable block hours. Take in account that they have to report 1.15 hrs prior to departure at the start of the 3 day trip (and 1hr on the downline station) they would have 163 paid hours of duty and 6.45 of unpaid time (not including the time it takes to deplane the flight)

That's exactly the kind of info I was asking. How much sitting around not getting paid is required to get paid for all those hours. I understand it's highly unlikely that anyone really works that much on a regular basis, but I was curious on what kind of actual time commitment it is to work that many paid hours.

I wonder what the ratio of unpaid/paid time is for the average FA? I understand you'd have to be pretty senior to pull off something like you mentioned, correct? In that example you'd be working about 170 hours a month, excluding the fact that you're staying in a foreign country, and excluding commuting to the airport, so you'd be getting paid for about 96% of your time. I wonder what that percentage would be for a solely Domestic FA?
 
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dutchflyboi
Posts: 74
Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 5:56 pm

RE: New United Employee Contracts

Tue Aug 23, 2011 6:25 pm

Quoting rdh3e (Reply 12):
In that example you'd be working about 170 hours a month, excluding the fact that you're staying in a foreign country, and excluding commuting to the airport, so you'd be getting paid for about 96% of your time. I wonder what that percentage would be for a solely Domestic FA?

A schedule like that is very unusual, even at CO. Normally the PMCO F/A flying the NRT/PEK/HKG/PVG trips (even the BOM and DEL trips) are not assigned more that 3 r/t per month, (4 would be unusual), meaning that (with the exception of HKG, since that is a 4 day trip), they work 9 days for the (bid)month.
These Flight Attendants are normally very senior (when I was doing it, I had 23 years with the company before I retired 2 years ago).
Domestic it would almost be impossible to do that. The longest flight would be EWR to HNL (20.20hrs R/T)
 
wwtraveler99
Posts: 229
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2008 11:34 pm

RE: New United Employee Contracts

Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:49 pm

Quoting An-225 (Reply 5):
In Denver, they instituted a cap (bastards) that nobody can work more than 104 hours in a pay period. That's not the case in other stations.

Why would the employees want a cap? I am assuming that either the employees wanted it, or agreed to the cap with the company.

But my thinking is if it the employee option to work more hours and not a mandatory thing why a cap?


WW

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