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IndianicWorld
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread #53

Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:29 pm

Sydscott, interesting that they want daily JQ flights to China.

Could it be a move to deliver MEL-PVG/PEK, instead of the announced Via SIN route for the latter? It really is a less than convenient option, especially on the return leg. I would be annoyed if it was a SYD-China non-stop flight I must admit, especially after the MEL offering detailed above was launched.

I could see them looking at either a CNS or OOL China link possibly too.
 
AeroplaneFreak
Posts: 295
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread #53

Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:31 pm

Quoting allrite (Reply 48):
but I wonder what the reaction to the ATRs on the SYD-CBR leg will be.

I will be flying on an AT7 in early Nov on the CBR-SYD leg.
 
ash1111
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread #53

Mon Aug 22, 2011 4:28 pm

Saw this as I walked towards my gate today...
Amazing iPhone quality...


[Edited 2011-08-22 09:28:41]

[Edited 2011-08-22 09:29:40]
 
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mariner
Posts: 19473
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread #53

Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:17 pm

Quoting travelhound (Reply 47):
I think the PR is a little bit more sophisticated than you suggest.

My entire livelihood depends on the public buying what I sell and after a long life of selling stuff (some successfully, some not) to the public, I can only comment on what I see.

Quoting travelhound (Reply 47):
If it had received far more scrutiny, than I'd also suggest the Australian public would be fairly upset with QF at the moment.

The public may be and the share price may reflect that. The public has been quite happy to flee Qantas and fly other airlines even though rationalists all seem to understand that the Asian subsidiaries may be a good idea.

I can't speak for the public, but it took me a moment to get my head around the idea that Qantas (airline) is seriously broken but that Qantas (group) is making a lot of money. Mixed signals, anyone? Even Mr. Joyce had to tap dance around that one.

But if we believe that the Australian public does actually "love" Qantas and/or is nationally proud of the brand, the heart of Qantas is international mainline and has been for a very long time.

And if it is broken, as we have been told - where is the fix? If the changes to international mainline are to be so minor, why make such a fuss? I felt softened up for massive changes to international mainline and my reaction was "is that it? - is that all there is?"

From a psychological perspective (p.r.), it might have been better to present these changes as an act of strength by Qantas, which would have been easy enough to do.

mariner

[Edited 2011-08-22 13:02:46]
aeternum nauta
 
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allrite
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread #53

Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:21 pm

Quoting ash1111 (Reply 49):
I'd love to see a trip report, allrite!
Capital Connect: a New Old Virgin to Canberra

Quoting mariner (Reply 53):
From a psychological perspective (p.r.), it might have been better to present these changes as an act of strength by Qantas, which would have been easy enough to do.

I wonder how much of Qantas' strategy and operations are dictated by the board. There are a few miners, including Leigh Clifford and a couple with degrees involving the word "politics". Mining companies seem to be very good at complaining (along with the other business lobby groups - fix our infrastructure and skills shortage but don't you dare tax us to pay for it!) and from what I hear long term frontline staff retention isn't really a feature of the mining landscape, but neither is staff loyalty.

The CEO and board of the large organisation I work for has been populated with people from the resource industry (although the chairman is now an ex-banker) and the attitude has been changing over the years to one where the senior execs are very important and other staff are burdened with increasing amounts of crap, despite it being an organisation very, very much dependent on its people.

Then there is the obsession of assigning measurements to everything in a business and believing them to be true, despite them only being approximate models, not reality. A scientist can tell you the difference.

Once you get up the stratum of serving on a big board it seems like a game of musical chairs in Australia. It's a pity those positions are often not populated by people passionate about the industries they are supposed to be overseeing.

And a pity too that unions are often about politics rather than protecting those they are supposed to be serving. But the political game (be it in parliament or the boardroom) is the real reality and all else is some fantasy world, right?

Rant over.

[Edited 2011-08-22 14:52:15]
I like artificial banana essence!
 
AJ
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread #53

Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:41 pm

Quoting qf002 (Reply 39):
Will be interesting to see what they decide to do with BKK.

I understand the current QF1/2 will become QF23/24 SYD-BKK-SYD with a B744. It will be retimed to connect with BA (approx 5 hour transit).
 
alangirvan
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread #53

Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:43 pm

What is the chance that SYD-BKK will become a JQ route? If JQ does start operations to Europe, MEl-BKK already is a JQ route. A332s could do BKK-FRA for JQ and BKK-FCO/ATH. (There has been some previous discussion about oxygen requirements while flying over the Himalayas - I do not know if this would affect JQ operations with A332s)

An alternative way for the Qantas group to make more of the German market will be when Air Berlin joins Oneworld. Air Berlin already flies from Germany to Thailand (Bangkok and Phuket), so Jetstar could do interlining or codeshares through those ports. The Air Berlin flights are from DUS and MUC (and will be from Berlin) so these would give some options rather than flying into Lufthansa's main hub.
 
qf002
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread #53

Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:10 pm

Quoting AJ (Reply 55):
(approx 5 hour transit).

That surprises me a bit... I'd have thought that something around 2-3 hours would be more likely, but I guess that could threaten traffic going through SIN.

Quoting alangirvan (Reply 56):
What is the chance that SYD-BKK will become a JQ route? If JQ does start operations to Europe, MEl-BKK already is a JQ route. A332s could do BKK-FRA for JQ and BKK-FCO/ATH.

Zero, at least at this stage. If JQ expands into Europe (or rather, when) it will be from SIN.
 
Sydscott
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread #53

Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:32 pm

Quoting TN486 (Reply 46):
Where are they sourcing the 2 717's, and similarly, where are there spare F100's?

I don't know about the 717's but Skywest has maintained in public that QF will have trouble sourcing reasonable F100's for its FIFO operation in Perth. Now whether that's a competitor speaking or an accurate state of the F100 leasing market I'm not sure but if QF is making those statements in its fleet plan then I assume they have the aircraft locked in from a leasing company somewhere. Maybe someone with a bit more knowledge of the aircraft market than me can help us out?

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 50):
I could see them looking at either a CNS or OOL China link possibly too.

I honestly don't know where the first JQ China flight would be but if it was to be direct, and the application doesn't say it's via a third country, then my guess would be MEL or OOL. I could see both as logical candidates and, to a lesser degree, I could also see BNE as a candidate as well.

Quoting qf002 (Reply 57):
Zero, at least at this stage. If JQ expands into Europe (or rather, when) it will be from SIN.

I can see SYD-BKK becoming a JQ route however I agree that any expansion will come from SIN. Then again with MAS coming into the equation from KL is it more cost effective for QF group to spend the money or is it easier to put pax on a MAS flight?
 
qf002
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread #53

Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:17 am

Quoting sydscott (Reply 58):
I can see SYD-BKK becoming a JQ route however I agree that any expansion will come from SIN. Then again with MAS coming into the equation from KL is it more cost effective for QF group to spend the money or is it easier to put pax on a MAS flight?

Maybe well into the future, but for now it is definitely staying as a QF route... QF23/24 are now open for purchase on the QF website, showing as operated by a 744...

Doubt we'd see them going through KUL - it's a big enough destination out of Australia (ie SYD and MEL flights) to warrant QF flights, and if anything we'd probably see them routing via their own subsidiary in HKG or SIN before giving pax to MH.
 
Sydscott
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread #53

Tue Aug 23, 2011 1:36 am

Quoting qf002 (Reply 59):
it's a big enough destination out of Australia (ie SYD and MEL flights) to warrant QF flights, and if anything we'd probably see them routing via their own subsidiary in HKG or SIN before giving pax to MH.

But even if it is a big enough destination out of Australia most traffic going between Greece/Italy and Australia would be tourist and VFR traffic. ie low yielding. While I can see JQ Asia having a shot at it when 787's arrive, if QF wants an immediate market presence then MAS is the easiest way to do that. And the 787 is probably 1.5 years away from wearing JQ colours and even then will probably have better yielding opportunities within Asia and North America than what JQ would get in Europe. I can see arguments both ways and I just think with what is happening at QF International at the moment that they will pick the easiest answer which is a MAS codeshare via KUL to AMS, FCO and IST while QF mainline takes traffic via SIN to LHR, FRA and CDG via AF. That gives them 2 non-competing hubs in Southeast Asia for traffic.
 
qfa787380
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread #53

Tue Aug 23, 2011 1:41 am

Will it be JQ to KUL and mainly QF to SIN? It is messy using 2 SE Asian ports and several carriers for your Euro services. Obviously, SIN had to stay as that is the high yielding port. KUL seems a messy strategy to me. May as well fly MH from Australia than connecting via JQ in KUL. I will be intrigued to see how the whole MH thing will work.
 
TruemanQLD
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread #53

Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:41 am

Quoting qfa787380 (Reply 61):
Will it be JQ to KUL and mainly QF to SIN? It is messy using 2 SE Asian ports and several carriers for your Euro services. Obviously, SIN had to stay as that is the high yielding port. KUL seems a messy strategy to me. May as well fly MH from Australia than connecting via JQ in KUL. I will be intrigued to see how the whole MH thing will work.

I agree, I think the QF group (and I suspect the new airline) will be SIN focused. It has worked well for them so far, why change what aint broke?
 
Sydscott
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread #53

Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:51 am

Quoting qfa787380 (Reply 61):
Will it be JQ to KUL and mainly QF to SIN? It is messy using 2 SE Asian ports and several carriers for your Euro services. Obviously, SIN had to stay as that is the high yielding port. KUL seems a messy strategy to me. May as well fly MH from Australia than connecting via JQ in KUL. I will be intrigued to see how the whole MH thing will work.

The KUL vs SIN question is the key. For QF SIN has an LCC base and a long haul premium base. At KUL there is an LCC, Air Asia, and a premium long haul base at MAS. MAS and AirAsia come together due to their cross shareholdings so there is a tremendous opportunity to combine the networks of MAS/QF for premium, of Air Asia X and JQ long haul for long haul LCC and JQ/JQ Asia and Air Asia for a shorter haul LCC.

Strategically JQ Asia is committed to SIN as a hub and I can't see that changing. Air Asia is equally committed to KUL and the two combined would be a formidable force as a pan Asian/Australia/New Zealand LCC. But JQ Asia has to maintain SIN as a way to squeeze SQ/Silkair at the bottom of the market. The real question is where to base the new premium carrier and whether QF wants to work in tandem with MAS at KUL to do it or whether they really want to pick a fight with SQ and hurt them where it counts in their key market in SIN. I think QF would find it hard to pass up an opportunity to put the knife into SQ in SIN if it could make the numbers stack up.

In terms of the Malaysia strategy, it'll be interesting to see how that plays out between MAS and QF. If QF intend to use it as a long haul connection then they will need to put QF mainline aircraft into it to attract premium passengers and rejig the schedule. I can already see a Joint Business Agreement in my Crystal ball . Equally Jetstar would also be useful to link in with Air Asia X and could launch services to ATH from KUL and could replace MAS on its FCO route. Or AirAsia X could do that and JQ could codeshare. There are many possibilites opened up by this alliance and, ultimately, the combination of QF, JQ, MAS and AirAsia could be an extremely powerful one in Southeast Asia for OW.
 
qf002
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread #53

Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:43 am

Quoting sydscott (Reply 60):
would be tourist and VFR traffic. ie low yielding

Tourist and VFR does not equal low yielding. Thailand is hardly a cheap tourist destination out of Australia, and the attitude that tourist = cheap is a bit of a generalisation. Also don't forget the Bangkok is a popular stopover going to London, and the continuing connections with BA will mean some of the higher level traffic will continue to flow through BKK.

Quoting qfa787380 (Reply 61):
KUL seems a messy strategy to me

Agreed. I'm hoping that the MH solution is short term or only for limited destinations, at least until QF get a decent European network going (with AB and BA connections)...
 
smi0006
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread #53

Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:31 am

Quoting qf002 (Reply 59):
Doubt we'd see them going through KUL - it's a big enough destination out of Australia (ie SYD and MEL flights) to warrant QF flights,

I'm not too sure about that, KUL seems low yielding to me. I would be disapointed if we saw QF flying to KUL from MEL whilst JQ flys MEL-PVG (via SIN or non-stop)....

Quoting sydscott (Reply 44):
http://www.iasc.gov.au/applications/files/4637.pdf - and the most interesting announcement yet - Qantas applying for a daily A330-200 service between Australia and China to commence from late 2011;

Thats not what the application says at all:

Application for Capacity Allocation -China Route
Qantas' wholly-owned subsidiary company Jetstar Airways (Jetstar) plans to commence services between Australia and China from late 2011.
The services will be operated daily using a two-class A330-200 aircraft configured with 310 seats.

Sad I find it hard to believe QF cannot justify MEL-PVG... they need to establish themselves on the route at some point, they longer they leave it the harder it will become, stunts like this really leaving me with doubts in QF management!
 
Sydscott
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread #53

Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:54 am

Quoting qf002 (Reply 64):
Tourist and VFR does not equal low yielding. Thailand is hardly a cheap tourist destination out of Australia, and the attitude that tourist = cheap is a bit of a generalisation. Also don't forget the Bangkok is a popular stopover going to London, and the continuing connections with BA will mean some of the higher level traffic will continue to flow through BKK.

2 points;

1. It's not a popular stopover destination from a Qantas perspective because QF only flies BKK-SYD and JQ flies MEL-BKK less than daily. The higher level traffic will go A380 via Singapore while the lower yields will be picked up wherever there is discounting space. That will become more obvious as the changes come in to play.
2. I meant on this particular route. C'mon Phuket is hardly high yield traffic!

Quoting smi0006 (Reply 65):
Thats not what the application says at all:

Our whole discussion in the thread has been about JQ on the route.  
 
qf002
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread #53

Tue Aug 23, 2011 6:49 am

Quoting smi0006 (Reply 65):
I'm not too sure about that, KUL seems low yielding to me. I would be disapointed if we saw QF flying to KUL from MEL whilst JQ flys MEL-PVG (via SIN or non-stop)....

If you read my post, you'd realise I was responding to another post that suggested QF might funnel BKK pax through KUL via MH codeshares, and it is this that I was responding to...

Quoting sydscott (Reply 66):
It's not a popular stopover destination from a Qantas perspective because QF only flies BKK-SYD

While that's a fair point, it doesn't mean that it's not popular as a stopover for traffic coming from Europe, or for traffic out of SYD. Thailand is massively popular in Europe, and I know a few people who have had a week in Thailand on their way to a few weeks holiday in Australia. Many more mature travellers (late 40's up) enjoy Bangkok as well - they've done SIN and HKG a couple of times before, and look to somewhere else to stopover in Asia on their way to Europe.

Quoting sydscott (Reply 66):
Phuket is hardly high yield traffic!

Uh, anywhere where the airline can sell me a Y ticket for almost $1000 each way in tourist season is bringing in pretty decent yields. I do agree though that it's not exactly an economic hotspot with corporates travelling back and forth!
 
Flyingsottsman
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread #53

Tue Aug 23, 2011 1:24 pm

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 12):
Indiustrial action is extremely costly, causing damage to a brands image, and is just a militant style action anyway
Quoting qf002 (Reply 13):
Because then you get this situation like we are seeing at the moment. The public perception of the company is being seriously damaged and tarnished because the QF unions are so loud and boisterous in their attacks of the company and management. It distracts from the core business of actually operating an airline.

I think the Unions have done great damage over the years in Australia, look at the Ports around Australia untill the Howard Government tried to change the culture of the militant unions on the docks. However with the industrial action that could happen with Qantas with the Pilots, maintence, FAs I agree with them in this case, these people that have spent their working lives with Qantas getting us to our destenations safley and in comfort, are slowly loosing their livelyhoods to overseas, while the management keep racking in big salaries and when Joyce has finnished his time at Qantas will get a huge huge payout and go on to some thing else now that sucks and big time. Qantas has made profets year after year yes each year its smaller than the last but they are still profets by any means.Yet they still want to cut jobs send other jobs overseas so of cause the unions are going to be boisterious and loud this is not about being greedy this is about keeping jobs in Australia
and not letting our flag carrier become a second rate LCC carrier.
 
Flyingsottsman
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread #53

Tue Aug 23, 2011 1:37 pm

Quoting smi0006 (Reply 65):
Sad I find it hard to believe QF cannot justify MEL-PVG... they need to establish themselves on the route at some point, they longer they leave it the harder it will become, stunts like this really leaving me with doubts in QF management!

The damage has been done and Qantas management are all about band aid solutions and playing catch up now or dumping JQ on its routes. I think in the future you will only see QF fly to 4 destenations LHR,LAX,DFW, and SIN and every thing else will be given to JQ.
 
qf002
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread #53

Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:34 am

Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 69):
I think in the future you will only see QF fly to 4 destenations LHR,LAX,DFW, and SIN and every thing else will be given to JQ.

But that's not going to work, and they know that. They need to maintain routes to HKG, NRT, PEK, BOM, JNB etc to remain profitable. The NRT route is very profitable, and China/India are the next really big centres.

I think the opposite. I think we will see QF expanding this decade with delivery of the 787s to a few European destinations (but never returning to the 2 LHR slots unless they get the planes to do nonstop) and adding frequency on flights to the US/maybe add something like BNE-DFW. Plus expanding in Asia via SIN and the new subsidiary...
 
vheca
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread #53

Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:42 am

Forgive my ignorance but is the QF International strategy release today? Nothing on the wires except A$252 Million posted by QF.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/business...-year/story-fn7j19iv-1226121151337

Cheers

Vheca
PAX on- 300, 312, 320, 380, 722, 732, 733, 73H, 73W, 739, 742, 743, 74C, 752, 753, 762, 789, AB4, CR7, D1C, D28, DHT, F27, L11
 
Gemuser
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread #53

Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:51 am

Quoting qf002 (Reply 70):
They need to maintain routes to HKG, NRT, PEK, BOM, JNB etc to remain profitable. The NRT route is very profitable, and China/India are the next really big centres.

Hoe do you know this? I would really, really like to know how anybody outside management accounting at QF actually know these things!

Gemuser
DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
 
alangirvan
Posts: 522
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread #53

Wed Aug 24, 2011 3:20 am

Quoting qf002 (Reply 67):
Thailand is massively popular in Europe, and I know a few people who have had a week in Thailand on their way to a few weeks holiday in Australia. Many more mature travellers (late 40's up) enjoy Bangkok as well - they've done SIN and HKG a couple of times before, and look to somewhere else to stopover in Asia on their way to Europe.

If people want a stopover, the new schedules will work fine. Fly Qantas to BKK, have a break, then fly onto UK with BA - it does not matter if there is a five hour connection, if you are having a stopover. I would think many of the people flying through HKG will be doing it because they want a Hong Kong stopover, so a quick connection there does not matter.
 
thegeek
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread #53

Wed Aug 24, 2011 4:08 am

Quoting alangirvan (Reply 73):
If people want a stopover, the new schedules will work fine. Fly Qantas to BKK, have a break, then fly onto UK with BA - it does not matter if there is a five hour connection, if you are having a stopover. I would think many of the people flying through HKG will be doing it because they want a Hong Kong stopover, so a quick connection there does not matter.

That's true but it does reflect a shrinking of their market share of the straight through market. Which is unfortunate for QF backers.
 
qf002
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread #53

Wed Aug 24, 2011 4:27 am

Quoting gemuser (Reply 72):
Hoe do you know this? I would really, really like to know how anybody outside management accounting at QF actually know these things!

A friend of mine who works for QF told me that the company had been making big bucks on the route before the disaster earlier in the year... Loads were very strong, and yields very high due to the lack of substantial competition on the route...

Quoting alangirvan (Reply 73):
If people want a stopover, the new schedules will work fine.

Totally agree. I was responding to another post that raised the possibility of QF giving the BKK route over to JQ, pointing out that the traffic isn't necessarily 'low-yielding' traffic that will struggle to make money using the QF brand.
 
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Zkpilot
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread #53

Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:17 pm

Quoting VH-BZF (Reply 45):
I don't think this is correct! I have friends who are employed at QF and their last EBA saw a 3 x 3% pay increase, totalling 9%. Whilst I'm not here to stand up for Alan Joyce, he did tell Helen Dally on Business Day - Foxtel, that executives in QF did not have a pay rise until 2010 (the normal 3%) and in fact were on a pay freeze for 3 years prior over the GFC.

And what do you think inflation has been running at??
Also prior to those payrises most workers at Qantas had not had much of any payrise as a result of 9/11, SARS etc etc. Management asked them to take a pay freeze effectively during the hard years only for the company to not make up for it in the good years (except for those managers who got a tidy bonus for doing such a great job.  Yeah sure

[Edited 2011-08-24 07:18:40]
64 types. 45 countries. 24 airlines.
 
Airvan00
Posts: 236
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread #53

Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:58 pm

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 76):

And what do you think inflation has been running at??

Irrelevant. A lot of people, in industries in Australia, have not had any pay rise regardless of what inflation is running at, a 3 x 3% would be a blessing for those people.
 
AirNiugini
Posts: 277
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread #53

Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:04 pm

Quoting AJ (Reply 55):

Why are they changing the flight number from QF1/2 to QF24/25? I'd love to see QF107/108 changed to QF1/2... but seriously, why bother changing the flight number?

Thanks  
Its time to fly!
 
Airvan00
Posts: 236
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread #53

Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:14 pm

Quoting airniugini (Reply 78):

Why are they changing the flight number from QF1/2 to QF24/25?

They are changing it to 23 and 24 (25 is already used)

Probably changing it as traditionally flight 1 is the most prestigious flight of an airline and that now will be bestowed on the SYD-SIN-LHR A380 flight.
 
AirNiugini
Posts: 277
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread #53

Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:30 pm

Quoting Airvan00 (Reply 79):

Your spot on mate... just saw this on AUSBT website 30 seconds ago...

http://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-moves...=flipper&utm_campaign=home-flipper
Its time to fly!
 
eaglefarm4
Posts: 447
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread #53

Thu Aug 25, 2011 4:53 am

2nd ATR72 for VA due BNE at 1900 hrs tonight.

Aircraft 1 has done route proving flights today BNE-PQQ and BNE-GLT.

Cheers.
tourismman
 
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BNE
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread #53

Fri Aug 26, 2011 12:58 pm

Virgin Australia have revamped their frequent flyer program. http://www.velocityrewards.com.au/co.../ProgramBenefits/AboutUs/index.htm

A program that now offers:

Global flight coverage with over 600 services around the world
Enhanced flight rewards, with more options to redeem Points for seats
Improved Points earn rates and status earning methods
Transformed status privileges and unique benefits for travellers and their families
A new Platinum level of membership with exclusive benefits
New program partners including credit cards and retail partners



The one benefit I am particularly interested in is the status match from Qantas Gold and Platinum frequent flyers.

We will be, for a limited time, matching your status should you be with another frequent flyer program (excluding selected alliance partners) – details and conditions on this promotion can be found at our website here.
Why fly non stop when you can connect
 
VH-BZF
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread #53

Fri Aug 26, 2011 1:42 pm

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 76):
And what do you think inflation has been running at??
Also prior to those payrises most workers at Qantas had not had much of any payrise as a result of 9/11, SARS etc etc. Management asked them to take a pay freeze effectively during the hard years only for the company to not make up for it in the good years

Qantas staff still enjoy the some of the best working conditions of any airline anywhere in the world. Whether you like it or not, Qantas remains the only airline in the world with an investment grade rating, no mean feat!

There is a possibility that Mel-Hkg goes to an A330-300 from April for a while I've heard.

BZF
Ansett Australia - (was) One of the worlds great airlines!
 
qf002
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread #53

Fri Aug 26, 2011 2:16 pm

Quoting VH-BZF (Reply 83):
There is a possibility that Mel-Hkg goes to an A330-300 from April for a while I've heard.

Already confirmed and loaded for sale from March 25th 2012 after the LHR leg is dropped. It's a permanent change...
 
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Zkpilot
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread #53

Sat Aug 27, 2011 1:30 am

Quoting VH-BZF (Reply 83):
Qantas remains the only airline in the world with an investment grade rating, no mean feat!

Actually there are a few, NZ is one and IIRC WN and SQ are another two.
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aerokiwi
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread #53

Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:24 am

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 85):
Actually there are a few, NZ is one and IIRC WN and SQ are another two.

The point being, I think, that there are't many. And keeping that grade is worthy of reward. Now, whether you think it's fair or not is pretty subjective, but regardless, getting salary increase that match inflation is pretty damn alright (sadly), particularly in the airline sector.
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread #53

Sat Aug 27, 2011 6:12 am

^^ Very true.

I know everyone would love big pay rises, but truth be told most of us realise the realitty. It appears though that there are some that have no idea how business works, or just how good they already have it, and thats how I view most of the demands like this.

All the accusations that are being made to discredit the airlines plans just seem to illustrate just how out of touch some are becoming with any economic reality.
 
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mariner
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread #53

Sat Aug 27, 2011 6:40 am

This writer in the SMH reflects my own view of the way it is playing out:

http://www.smh.com.au/business/qanta...o-brinkmanship-20110826-1je5d.html

It is becoming increasingly obvious that this is a high-stakes - and high-risk - game of brinkmanship with the airline's heavily unionised workforce.

Alan Joyce is a diminutive character with a broad Irish brogue, a lilting accent combined with an easy charm. There's no doubt he is confronted with a monumental challenge, what with wildly fluctuating fuel prices, a competitive onslaught from heavily subsidised carriers from Asia and the Gulf, fickle demand and an uncertain global economy.

But the longer he continues with this strategy of trash-talking Qantas, the more he runs the risk of damaging his own credibility and that of the airline."


And the more he will alienate the workforce.

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TruemanQLD
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread #53

Sat Aug 27, 2011 9:31 am

Full page advertisement in the Courier Mail today announcing the new 'spirit' things, but more interesting how they name and shame the two unions who have been pulling QF down. Gutsy move, if you ask me, but good on them!
 
VA787
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread #53

Sun Aug 28, 2011 1:36 am

I saw the same advert last night at work.

To me, the part that puts s*** on the unions isn't exactly going to do them any good, given the current situation. Very very risky. From my viewpoint it just seems to stir the pot?

VA787
 
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread #53

Sun Aug 28, 2011 4:26 am

Quoting truemanQLD (Reply 89):
Full page advertisement in the Courier Mail today announcing the new 'spirit' things, but more interesting how they name and shame the two unions who have been pulling QF down. Gutsy move, if you ask me, but good on them!

Hmmm - Ben Sandilands has a different take on that:

http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalk...as-spends-big-on-self-denigration/

"Qantas spends big on self-denigration

The Qantas print media campaign of self-denigration continues at the rate of hundreds of thousands of dollars today.

These are full page ads stating the obvious; that Qantas needs to change, but claiming to be building a "stronger Qantas" while remaining in a state of denial over the management failures that have so badly damaged the carrier.

These failures are painfully obvious in fleet management, network and scheduling, and product and employee engagement. There seems to be an ideological agenda at the top in Qantas that is not acknowledged in the campaign, yet has led to a restructuring that diminishes the Qantas that it is supposed to strengthen."


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RE: Australian Aviation Thread #53

Sun Aug 28, 2011 5:38 am

Qantas at war with two unions. Virgin peaceful.
Qantas result; plus 200 odd million dollars, Virgins result; minus 40 odd million dollars.

Qantas makes money from everything except Qantas international according to its numbers. Those numbers are guaranteed by a reputable accounting firm.
Some think QF makes these numbers up to screw the pilots/mechanics? I very much doubt that. No need.
If nothing else NZ reported loss of 1 million per week and that points in the same direction.

Now some think I love Qantas management or fly them a lot. I dont. I prefer Asian carriers.
I don't support foreign staff flying inside Australia, even if they are paid Australian wages and on Australian contracts I don't want it. Australian flying should be done by Australian crews. Full stop.
But having kiwi staff flying the kiwi routes and transtasman (kiwis on one end so here we see competition) on kiwi contracts seems fair enough to me. And I don't see it as unfair that it says Qantas on kiwi crewed planes. Qantas has a subsidiary in NZ and it uses the Qantas brand. It's not deceit or an attempt to cheat in my eyes its Qantas owning part of the NZ skies and a net positive for Australia.

But when we discuss QF it's like nothing they do can ever be good in some posters eyes. They just posted a profit of 200 odd million dollars. Sure percentage wise it's not great but this is the airline world and margins tend to be thin if compared with revenue put in.

Most parts of the company made a surplus. In fact only Qantas international didn't. Naturally we then want to see changes implemented at the lossmaking part of the operation. Same goes for Qantas.
Some think more flights to destinations in Europe and Asia is the solution. Me I suggest fewer flights to Europe. The cost to send airplanes all the way to Europe isn't worth the effort. Airlines from similar high cost environments (the other end of the roo route LH, AF LX etc ) realised this 15 years ago. Qantas should now understand it too. Send passengers to Asia let them continue their journey on Air France, BA, Malaysian, Finnair or SAS.
Qantas partners will all those airlines and they are perfectly capable of funneling QF passengers onwards.
And don't tell me passengers only want QF. They don't, economy passengers fly whatever the price gives them. First and business will do just fine on BA, Air France, AY, SK or Malaysian. After all Qantas isn't superior to these airlines nor so special and if British, French and other European passengers can handle Qantas I am sure Australians can handle BA and AF. Corporate contracts definitely can and they rule the skies in those classes.

I saw what Virgin offers a company with a large travelbudget. I wasnt impressed, based on that I don't see them taking much of Qantas corporate business away.
I also see them posting yet another loss, when the Australian economy is booming, as further pointing to them and their new style not being as successful as some hope.
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IndianicWorld
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread #53

Sun Aug 28, 2011 6:42 am

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 92):
I saw what Virgin offers a company with a large travelbudget. I wasnt impressed, based on that I don't see them taking much of Qantas corporate business away.
I also see them posting yet another loss, when the Australian economy is booming, as further pointing to them and their new style not being as successful as some hope.

They are already said to be getting decent uptake in business contracts, so there must be quite a few that are happy with the deals. Time will tell how successful the re-brand and market repositioning goes, but it may very well be hard work. It will take a while though to see where things lead.

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 92):
Airlines from similar high cost environments (the other end of the roo route LH, AF LX etc ) realised this 15 years ago. Qantas should now understand it too. Send passengers to Asia let them continue their journey on Air France, BA, Malaysian, Finnair or SAS.

Thats true. That points been made a few times on here, and is very much an important thing to remember.

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 92):
But when we discuss QF it's like nothing they do can ever be good in some posters eyes. They just posted a profit of 200 odd million dollars. Sure percentage wise it's not great but this is the airline world and margins tend to be thin if compared with revenue put in.

Very true also. The negativity that surrounds QF is like a national pastime it seems.
 
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mariner
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread #53

Sun Aug 28, 2011 7:46 am

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 92):
Qantas at war with two unions. Virgin peaceful.
Qantas result; plus 200 odd million dollars, Virgins result; minus 40 odd million dollars.

For me, it is a difference in attitude, Mr. Borghetti seems to have been able to enthuse his staff. I flew Virgin Australia a couple of weeks ago for the first time and it was was pleasant, efficient and helpful - as most airlines are. But all the the staff with whom I spoke were feeling good about the airline's future and communicated that feeling.

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 92):
I saw what Virgin offers a company with a large travelbudget. I wasnt impressed, based on that I don't see them taking much of Qantas corporate business away.

It's getting some:

http://www.smh.com.au/business/earni...s-eyes-rebound-20110825-1jazb.html

"Virgin said its share of the lucrative corporate travel market had grown to 13 per cent, up from a 10 per cent in 2009-10. It wants to eventually achieve a 20 per cent share of the market segment."

I don't have a horse in this race (I'm barracking for Strategic). Qantas is my default airline - I'll try others and eventually I will (usually) come home to Big Red, but I don't like the way Mr. Joyce is handling the p. r. of this transition. I am not enthused by his vision, but perhaps it is the way he presents it. I may understand it (and even sympathize) objectively, but I don't get it subjectively.

mariner

[Edited 2011-08-28 00:55:10]
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ash1111
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread #53

Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:59 pm

Remember, also, that many of VA's changes have just recently been introduced (and still being rolled out -- new aircraft, business class, lounges, SkyWest wet lease etc.). While their recent profit loss may not be a welcome sight -- I don't think it means the new business model is unviable.

[Edited 2011-08-28 09:00:18]
 
vheca
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread #53

Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:09 am

All I hope for is that whatever QF is doing at the moment (culling back International routes, establishing a new Asian-based airline) is for the common good of the Group, thus enabling them to one day be able to return to the days of QF flying to multiple destinations in Europe, the Americas, Asia and Africa. I keep telling myself this is what QF management is doing. Evil now, for good in the future? Too ambitious? Too optimistic?

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RE: Australian Aviation Thread #53

Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:26 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 91):
Hmmm - Ben Sandilands has a different take on that:


The reality is the unions are using in flight announcements to further their cause, so QANTAS has to respond in some form to the allegations. Newspaper print it is!!!

I'm not a big fan of Ben Sandilands blog as he has a clear agenda, but I suppose it is a perspective.
 
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mariner
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread #53

Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:32 am

Quoting travelhound (Reply 97):
I'm not a big fan of Ben Sandilands blog as he has a clear agenda, but I suppose it is a perspective.

Every commentator/blogger usually has an agenda. I don't always agree with him, but I have some sympathy with him in this.

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IndianicWorld
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread #53

Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:36 am

Quoting vheca (Reply 96):
All I hope for is that whatever QF is doing at the moment (culling back International routes, establishing a new Asian-based airline) is for the common good of the Group,

It is to ensure that it can compete into the future. Its quite a simple equation actually, but theres definately some that want to complicate the process. Its mainly those that want the cake and to eat it too, without worrying about the effects on their health  
Quoting vheca (Reply 96):
thus enabling them to one day be able to return to the days of QF flying to multiple destinations in Europe, the Americas, Asia and Africa.

Asia will be its growth focus, from Australia and Intra-Asia, but dont expect any more QF destination in Europe or likely Africa again. Airlines around the world have changed their thinking, and those days of flying your own metal around the globe are over. Its now about maximising partnership value, whilst finding the most efficient operating model.

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