UA Flight Returns To Gate Because Of Plane Book

northstardc4m · Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:34 pm

Looks like UA did it again, and this time it's possibly concerning for all of us:

http://vancegilbert.com/?page=blog

Returned to the gate because a passenger was reading a book about airplanes?!

B6JFKH81 · Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:50 pm

I know someone always says this in one of these threads, but "I truly don't think we're getting the entire story here". I mean I feel terrible for anyone who is yanked off a plane after a return-to-gate, then allowed back on only to have in the back of their mind that everyone on that plane has bad thoughts about you. At the same time, I cannot imagine an F/A getting razzled over a fanny pack that needed to get moved and a book about aviation history. Something is fishy here

blueflyer · Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:59 pm

I sincerely hope there's more to the story than what we've read so far, because if there isn't, we have reached new depths of stupidity/paranoia I wouldn't think possible even in my worst nightmare.

Getting kicked off a plane for reading a book?!? Please tell me we're missing the part where the book title looked at first glance to be "blowing up planes for dummies."

mayor · Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:59 pm

Well, I don't think he needed to play the race card, but you wonder what got the F/A so worked up about the book? What could have been more harmless? Why didn't she ask him what he was reading, first and maybe take a look it at, herself?

Paranoia, paranoia............................................

Having said that, it would be interesting to hear another viewpoint on this incident, wouldn't it? Either one that corroborates his story or otherwise.

L1011 · Wed Aug 24, 2011 6:08 pm

I often read aviation books while flying. I recently read "Tiger on a Leash", about the Northeast DC-6A that crashed onto Rikers Island, and "The Left Seat", by Robert Serling, which was about a DC-7B crash. I guess I need to be more careful about what I read on a plane in the future.

Bob Bradley

flyorski · Wed Aug 24, 2011 6:12 pm

Quoting L1011 (Reply 4):
I often read aviation books while flying. I recently read "Tiger on a Leash", about the Northeast DC-6A that crashed onto Rikers Island, and "The Left Seat", by Robert Serling, which was about a DC-7B crash. I guess I need to be more careful about what I read on a plane in the future

Its just so sad that we could even get to the point that we need to worry about what we read. I feel for this guy, I would hate to be singled out and asked such questions especially based on a book.

Nimish · Wed Aug 24, 2011 6:13 pm

Definitely a case for an eBook reader

Nimish

robsaw · Wed Aug 24, 2011 6:15 pm

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 1):
Something is fishy here

Or nothing is fishy at all (about the person taken off the plane) and we've just moved one step closer to airline hell.

vegas005 · Wed Aug 24, 2011 6:27 pm

The USA has done over the cliff...whining wimps everywhere. Don't flame me folks, I'm American and I am sick and tired of this bs!

BMI727 · Wed Aug 24, 2011 6:31 pm

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 1):
I know someone always says this in one of these threads, but "I truly don't think we're getting the entire story here".

I'd say this is probably the case.

Quoting Nimish (Reply 6):
Definitely a case for an eBook reader

Then he could be kicked off for using an electronic device.

tjwgrr · Wed Aug 24, 2011 6:52 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 3):
Well, I don't think he needed to play the race card,

Agreed- I don't think race had anything to do with this incident- could have easily happened to a Caucasian as well. I would like to hear the other side of the story, as I suspect there may be more to it.

phxIAHszxJNU · Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:00 pm

I wish there was more to the story than this, but with the current environment permitting paranoia, I am apt to take his word sadly.

maxpower1954 · Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:03 pm

I thought the name was familar...Vance Gilbert.

Although I've never met him, he is very well-known in the scale rubber-powered model airplane world and has been for over 30 years. He has a knack for finding obscure modeling subjects and making them fly, winning many major national awards. I would be suprised if there is more to this story than meets the eye based upon his reputation with fellow modelers.

Russ Farris

isitsafenow · Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:12 pm

I think the "warning light" went off because of the way the man was dressed as described in the third paragraph.
If wearing a sport shirt and jacket, no one would have given the fellow a second look.
Appearance is important in life.....it IS judging a book by the cover i.e. first impression.
safe

SouthernDC9 · Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:19 pm

Having a fanny pack is crime enough if you ask me, and a Hawaiian shirt - that I would have to judge on a case-by-case basis but I would generally look upon such a thing unfavorable. But honestly (and seriously), WHY did this guy have to throw race into the mix? That seems like such a leap and makes me question whether the rest of the story is believable as told or whether he embellished any details or jumped to any other illogical conclusions.

SASDC8 · Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:35 pm

I really feel sorry for the guy and hope for UAs sake that there is more to the story, than what is being told here. If not I guess he will have a field day claiming racial discrimination in court.
Since he was let onto the plane again, after police questioning, UA sure does not seem to have a good case...

Quoting robsaw (Reply 7):
Or nothing is fishy at all (about the person taken off the plane) and we've just moved one step closer to airline hell.

Hopefully not, but I am afraid that you might be right...

I will be very careful when selecting my reading material for my next flight in the US, that's for sure!

Curiousflyer · Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:41 pm

I think he had to throw race because... it is hard to understand how a 50+ years old bespectacled man reading about planes and wearing a Hawaiian shirt can be a threat. I am not surprised it could have played a part.

This crew is a shame for United.

ikramerica · Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:43 pm

For someone who flys a lot like he obviously does, he KNOWS you can't put anything behind your feet.

Quoting tjwgrr (Reply 10):
Agreed- I don't think race had anything to do with this incident- could have easily happened to a Caucasian as well. I would like to hear the other side of the story, as I suspect there may be more to it.

Agreed. It's gender profiling maybe, but hardly racial profiling. I mean, if he were Arab and 25? Maybe I could see his point. But he's an older black man. He's not the profile anyone is looking for here.

Now, drive a nice car in Beverly Hills? Then he might get pulled over and he'd have a valid argument...

Rdh3e · Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:52 pm

"I silently wept the whole flight to DC. I've never been so frightened or humiliated. I'm shaking even writing this."

Melodrama much? This guy is clearly exaggerating and it honestly sounds like although they should NOT have gone back to the gate, that the police and TSA handled the matter very professionally.

dalalways · Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:59 pm

Everyone has failed to point out this was a regional carrier.....not UA. He said he was on an Embraer, which is not part of the mainline fleet. It seems regional carriers make their own rules, a few months ago I was on a UA Regional flt and the FA took my Starbucks and put it in the overhead compartment, she said I couldn't hold it for take off.

2a674 · Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:05 pm

Hmmm. Something I have noticed the last 10 years. I'm sure that more than a few of us read Airways or Airliners. I can remember usually finding the magazines at airports. Now, Good luck! The only place I have found them was SEA.

Connection perhaps?

dalalways · Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:10 pm

Quoting 2a674 (Reply 20):
Hmmm. Something I have noticed the last 10 years. I'm sure that more than a few of us read Airways or Airliners. I can remember usually finding the magazines at airports. Now, Good luck! The only place I have found them was SEA.

Connection perhaps?

I purchase that in ATL, SDQ, AUS, SAT.....there are plenty of airports that I still find it in.

RWA380 · Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:18 pm

Are you kidding me? This has to stop. We are in America, freedom for all. This is ridiculous, had the book been how to fly an Embraer, I'd see some concern. There is being alert, and then there is absurd. Bad PR for the carrier. Seems a shame it's gotten to this kinda stuff. Hope the paranoia pendulum swings back the other way again, at least a bit.

01pewterz28 · Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:19 pm

Btw this was NOT a United Airlines mainline flight but a UNITED Express flight operation ( Trans States Airlines) under a UAL Flight # so let's not all get upset with United for the lack ok knowledge foe the Flightcrew of this flight. This is sad to see and if this is the whole story what a mess they caused.

seabosdca · Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:25 pm

This is Boston (where I lived for several years). The same city whose residents shut the entire city down over some guerrilla advertising pieces that included a circuit board, which most of the locals seemed to think was justified. The place is far more paranoid than New York or DC despite not actually having fallen victim to any terrorist attacks.

My guess is that the deadheading pilot who started the whole ruckus was a commuting Bostonian.

EPCOT · Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:26 pm

Yes, there is always more to the story. This isn't even a news article, it is a writeup on his personal blog. Was it racial profiling? I seriously doubt it. He doesn't even know for sure why he was asked to step off the plane. At least he never says what reason they gave, if they even gave one. He could have made a joke or other comment that another passenger or crew member overheard and took the wrong way. Perhaps his "cordial" conversation with the flight attendant was not taken that way from the crewmember's point of view. The fact that two TSA personnel showed up tells me that they probably searched his carry on bags. Although he doesn't mention that. The uniformed TSA don't usually show up at the gate unless they are going to rescreen somebody or something. There is always more to the story. Don't be so quick to jump to conclusions.

Rdh3e · Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:26 pm

Quoting 01pewterz28 (Reply 23):
Btw this was NOT a United Airlines mainline flight but a UNITED Express flight operation ( Trans States Airlines) under a UAL Flight # so let's not all get upset with United for the lack ok knowledge foe the Flightcrew of this flight. This is sad to see and if this is the whole story what a mess they caused.

Should probably get your carriers straight before you start smearing them. Trans States does not fly E170's for UA. Only S5 does.

[Edited 2011-08-24 13:27:29]

mcdu · Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:29 pm

Doing investigations for many years this story is not complete without BOTH sides of the story. Quite often what the investigations I have done have revealed are those that scream the loudest about how compliant they were are actually stretching the truth to a large degree. Taking this issue to a blog and making his case is often the motive of those that might have been the offender but want to get the first jab in for their innocence. We could probably get the police report that was created by this event and get a better idea of what the driving factor was in the return to gate.

Also, if it was an E170 is was Shuttle American, Republic or whatever AKA they are using for this particular service. This was not a UA operated flight.

BCEaglesCO757 · Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:36 pm

Is this Inside Edition.com or Airliners.net ?

I was expecting a link to ABC,NBC,etc. Possibly a Newspaper link.

But the guys personal blog ? Thats makes me go Hmmmm. I know personally what it's like to get singled out being black. But putting it on a blog first chance you get......

I'd be getting a lawyer or filing a complaint with the carrier. Not plastering it across the web. Which I'm guessing no attorney would suggest. Any lawyers on here ?

As an African American this makes me think of a D. L. Hughley joke when he says:

"I was on a plane once and they threw a guy from the middle east off the plane. "

I said to myself , " I'm a black man thats racial profiling .............But I Sho' hit the call button on his a#@ "

The irony.

flyorski · Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:37 pm

Quoting rdh3e (Reply 18):
"I silently wept the whole flight to DC. I've never been so frightened or humiliated. I'm shaking even writing this."

Quoting rdh3e (Reply 18):
Melodrama much? This guy is clearly exaggerating and it honestly sounds like although they should NOT have gone back to the gate, that the police and TSA handled the matter very professionally.

Based on your response I take it you have no life experience with being profiled.

NathanH · Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:40 pm

Quoting mcdu (Reply 27):

Doing investigations for many years this story is not complete without BOTH sides of the story. Quite often what the investigations I have done have revealed are those that scream the loudest about how compliant they were are actually stretching the truth to a large degree. Taking this issue to a blog and making his case is often the motive of those that might have been the offender but want to get the first jab in for their innocence. We could probably get the police report that was created by this event and get a better idea of what the driving factor was in the return to gate.

Also, if it was an E170 is was Shuttle American, Republic or whatever AKA they are using for this particular service. This was not a UA operated flight.

Oh, I get it. Real victims know to just shut up and take it.

Rdh3e · Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:40 pm

Quoting flyorski (Reply 29):
Based on your response I take it you have no life experience with being profiled.

Not on race, but other factors I sure have. But you can hardly say he was profiled based on this description. Do you have any idea of how many African Americans fly on a plane every day that are NOT harassed?

varigb707 · Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:41 pm

Quoting NorthStarDC4M (Thread starter):

Returned to the gate because a passenger was reading a book about airplanes?!

Dang.... The terrorists have won. I'm not just saying it. Not making fun of this whole situation. This is exactly what they wanted. That's a shame. Too much for nothing.

Type-Rated · Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:52 pm

What if he had been a private pilot student and was reading his ground school textbook? OMG, that could have been worth a jail sentence!

The day is coming where you'll be handcuffed to your seat from gate to gate and the flight attendants will be more like jail guards than they are today. Wait! We do have an airline like that, Department of Justice air!

I thought the guy wrote a decent enough letter. He certainly provided more details than the usual complaint letter does.

It wasn't that long ago where we were told that it was illegal to take photos of airplanes at an airport.

Argonaut · Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:17 pm

Quoting tjwgrr (Reply 10):
I don't think race had anything to do with this incident- could have easily happened to a Caucasian as well.

Maybe you're right, but I wish I could be really certain.

Quoting isitsafenow (Reply 13):
because of the way the man was dressed

Oh, absolutely. A Hawaiian shirt always means trouble. Especially with planes on it.

rj

planereality · Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:26 pm

Like I just said on twitter (the story is all over) Can ANYONE corroborate this story? Or everyone just take him for his word because its a touchy subject? I DO NOT question his credibility, never met him (or heard of him) just seems awfully ridiculous. If its 100% true, wouldn't he be busy with his lawyer, not writing on his blog?

[Edited 2011-08-24 14:28:26]

01pewterz28 · Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:29 pm

Quoting rdh3e (Reply 26):
Should probably get your carriers straight before you start smearing them. Trans States does not fly E170's for UA. Only S5 does.

Sorry Shuttle America still again A UAX flight.

mcdu · Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:34 pm

Quoting NathanH (Reply 30):
Oh, I get it. Real victims know to just shut up and take it.

Real victims work with the offending company and lawyers to settle a wrong. Those that contributed to their own problems usually take to the mass media. How many investigations have you conducted on these types of complaints?

Quoting 01pewterz28 (Reply 36):
Sorry Shuttle America still again A UAX flight.

Does that make the LH flights that carry UA flight numbers for codeshare a UA fligh?

ozark1 · Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:41 pm

Vance, I am just thinking that it had to be something else. Near the anniversary of 9/11 i don't blame any crew member for any actions that they find suspicious. I do not believe it had anything to do with your race. Times they are a different sir and i would be that it had something to do with the interaction you had and the demeanor you exhibited when talking to the f/a about putting the fanny pack under the seat. That's just my guess.

SonomaFlyer · Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:41 pm

This makes me wish I practiced in Civil Rights Litigation...

I'm sure if UAX/UAL etc has a different take on it with a legitimate security concern, they would've put out a release. In addition, the other passengers on the flight certainly would've said something if in fact there was a legitimate security issue.

Perhaps we should at least take up a collection for this man to get an IPad

SouthernDC9 · Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:02 pm

Is air-based racial profiling seriously an issue? I'd say I've been on a total of 30 flights this year (a tiny number compared to many on here, I know, sorry). On all of these flights there have been African-American passengers, and not once have I seen anyone, of any ethnicity, removed from a flight. On one flight, I believe at one point a flight attendant had to have a talk with one gentleman about the need to calm down and not drink anymore, but that seemed to work (and it was some white idiot who was in trouble and bothering everybody). I mean, do you have any idea how many times I've wished people of any number of backgrounds would be kicked off a flight because I just found them annoying or obnoxious or unpleasant somehow? But it just absolutely has not happened. I'm fascinated by this, truly...

Maverick623 · Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:48 pm

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 24):
despite not actually having fallen victim to any terrorist attacks.

Um... hate to burst your bubble, but 2 of the 4 airplanes hijacked on 9/11 departed from BOS.

Also, most of you in this thread should be ashamed of yourselves. You take a friggen blog post with absolutely no verification whatsoever, and use it to demonize not only United (who didn't operate the flight), but a major city, country, and for some the entire aviation system. Take the self-righteous bashing of 2 billion people elsewhere, please.

seabosdca · Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:56 pm

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 41):
Um... hate to burst your bubble, but 2 of the 4 airplanes hijacked on 9/11 departed from BOS

And were actually used to attack New York City.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 41):
Also, most of you in this thread should be ashamed of yourselves. You take a friggen blog post with absolutely no verification whatsoever, and use it to demonize not only United (who didn't operate the flight), but a major city, country, and for some the entire aviation system. Take the self-righteous bashing of 2 billion people elsewhere, please.

I would not have criticized Boston for absolutely over-the-top paranoia if I had not experienced it personally on multiple occasions while living there. My criticism stands even if the blog post is 100% debunked.

indywa · Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:56 pm

There's more to this story than what is being told..and before anyone goes off on "racial profiling", maybe you should find out the ethnicity of the FAs in question...since at least one of them would therefore profile themselves.

KELPkid · Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:10 pm

When I read the thread title, and took the title at face value, I thought it was because someone left an important maintenance log for the plane behind, or maybe even something like a QRH...

I guess airliners don't have to carry maintenance logbooks around like GA planes do, though...

TransIsland · Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:16 pm

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 1):
"I truly don't think we're getting the entire story here"

Agreed. A brother wearing a Jimmy Buffett shirt is most definitely suspicious.

sw733 · Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:19 pm

Quoting maxpower1954 (Reply 12):
he is very well-known in the scale rubber-powered model airplane world

I imagine all 8 members in that world are very well known

Seriously, does that world make the US Supreme Court look like a packed dance club?

Quoting SouthernDC9 (Reply 14):
Having a fanny pack is crime enough if you ask me

{ROTFL}

Quoting planereality (Reply 35):
Can ANYONE corroborate this story? Or everyone just take him for his word because its a touchy subject?

Probably not. Look, it's only fair to question someones validity. It's just as possible that someone can try to milk a situation for all it's worth ($$) as it is that these events actually happened. I mean, on the surface, this is a ridiculous story. There HAS to be something he isn't sharing from his one side of the story.

soon7x7 · Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:13 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 22):
We are in America, freedom for all.

Tell that to Janet Nepolitano, Mr. Obama and Eric Halder. Now let me finish "the Downing of TWA800" in pieces please!

ThirtyEcho · Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:21 am

What is next, people arrested for reading the safety card?

falstaff · Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:22 am

Quoting NorthStarDC4M (Thread starter):
Returned to the gate because a passenger was reading a book about airplanes?!

They better stop selling aviation magazines at the airport!

Next time I won't bring Airways when I fly and bring Trains Magazine instead.

Quoting IndyWA (Reply 43):
There's more to this story than what is being told..and before anyone goes off on "racial profiling", maybe you should find out the ethnicity of the FAs in question...since at least one of them would therefore profile themselves.

Be careful with that one. Ten years ago a black security guard strangled a black shoplifter at a department store in Dearborn, Michigan. The race card was still played. Some lawyers argued that the black man wouldn't have used such force against a white shoplifter. That sounds stupid, and it is, but it really did happen.

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