DL MD-90 S In Service

bigbird · Fri Aug 26, 2011 8:21 pm

How many MD-90 s does DL now have in service? Also how many more are plannned to enter service before the end of this year?

mikect · Fri Aug 26, 2011 8:24 pm

According to this site:

http://airfleets.net/flottecie/Delta%20Airlines.htm

They have 30 in service and 10 on their way (I don't know about before the end of the year). What's curious is they have the 10 on order, but still 5 stored. If the need them enough to buy more, why not take the 5 out of storage?

Assuming those numbers are accurate, of course.

Dalmd88 · Fri Aug 26, 2011 8:38 pm

Quoting MikeCT (Reply 1):
What's curious is they have the 10 on order, but still 5 stored. If the need them enough to buy more, why not take the 5 out of storage?

I doubt they are just being stored. Each airframe has taken months to put into service. They each get a full overhaul check with a newly configured interior then they get exterior paint. That is about six weeks per airframe. I think the HMV checks are all being done at the same facility so they can only do one or two lines at a time. I would bet the FAA process is also slowing them up.

kl911 · Fri Aug 26, 2011 8:56 pm

Quoting Dalmd88 (Reply 2):
I would bet the FAA process is also slowing them up

Which process are you refering to?

Quoting MikeCT (Reply 1):
What's curious is they have the 10 on order

Are they still being build? And why is DL choosing for such an technically old plane when there are more modern ones out. I thought their narrowbody order in 2012 would replace the MD's?

mikect · Fri Aug 26, 2011 9:00 pm

Quoting kl911 (Reply 3):
Are they still being build?

No, but I assume the "on order" refers to "acquired" aircraft. It looks like a majority of them are coming from China Southern.

flyorski · Fri Aug 26, 2011 9:02 pm

Quoting kl911 (Reply 3):
Are they still being build? And why is DL choosing for such an technically old plane when there are more modern ones out. I thought their narrowbody order in 2012 would replace the MD's?

They are not still being built, Delta is purchasing older used frames. The order in 2012 will replace the older DC-9s (among others), not the MD90s. They will be around long past 2020. The reason they purchase used MD90s is because they are so cheap compared to a new built A320/737NG and still have relatively good economics.

seabosdca · Fri Aug 26, 2011 9:06 pm

Quoting kl911 (Reply 3):
And why is DL choosing for such an technically old plane when there are more modern ones out. I thought their narrowbody order in 2012 would replace the MD's?

They have comparable efficiency to an A320, just with worse range, and (for most operators) more expensive maintenance costs due to the small worldwide fleet. But DL is in the process of acquiring almost all of the surviving old-cockpit MD-90s in the world. With the fleet of 65 or more that it will eventually collect, the maintenance costs will be much less of an issue, and the low purchase price means DL is getting planes with modern operating cost at a steal. As a bonus, the MD-90 has DC-9 durability and will fly on for as long as DL wants it to.

The next narrowbody order will be partly to replace less efficient MD-88s, not MD-90s. (The one just announced is to replace older 757s and A320s.)

DLMD90 · Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:21 pm

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 6):
The next narrowbody order will be partly to replace less efficient MD-88s, not MD-90s. (The one just announced is to replace older 757s and A320s.)

Is Delta still doing the reburbs on the MD88s? It was my understanding the Md88s were not really planned to go anywhere anytime soon!?

seabosdca · Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:32 pm

Quoting DLMD90 (Reply 7):
Is Delta still doing the reburbs on the MD88s? It was my understanding the Md88s were not really planned to go anywhere anytime soon!?

Expect them to be replaced around 2017 and onward... that's more than enough time to warrant relatively inexpensive refurb work, which adds revenue seats, now.

b727fa · Fri Aug 26, 2011 11:06 pm

117 MD88 and 28 MD90 with 30 MD90 in the pipeline for DOS by 2013.

Dalmd88 · Sat Aug 27, 2011 1:38 am

Quoting DLMD90 (Reply 7):
Is Delta still doing the reburbs on the MD88s? It was my understanding the Md88s were not really planned to go anywhere anytime soon!?

The MD88's going through HMV are getting the new 149 pax mod. After the first batch were done last winter they stopped the mod while the mod kit and drawings were updated so it would go smoother. We found a lot of issues with the fit of the parts and the drawings from TIMCO. I suspect another mod line will be set up this winter to do some of the airframes that are years away from HMV.

Quoting kl911 (Reply 3):
Which process are you refering to?

Knowing the FAA I bet it is a real hassle to transfer the reg from China to the US. We also had about a month this summer where the FAA was essentially closed for business due to budget issues.

Acey559 · Sat Aug 27, 2011 1:45 am

There was a blurb on DeltaNet today about the MD-88s and -90s. Essentially what it boiled down to is that the Mad Dogs are going to be around for a long time to come, with no immediate plans to replace them. And as you all know they are still in the process of acquiring the 30ish MD-90s. I really enjoy the Stupid 80s and the MD-90 so I'm glad they will be hanging around.

ZKNCL · Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:08 am

30 in service, 5 stored and a few on order. The stored ones are stored before ETS so they can be setup. Delta said they would have 80 by 2018. I've also noticed that when a DC-9 gets retired a MD-90 enters service so they must be replacing them but sometimes not directly. Im not so sure about that though.

Z~k~N~c~L

skymiler · Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:50 am

any chance that DL could acquire the kissing cousin MD-95 (oops B717) if WN decides they do not want them after the SOC is complete?

TSS · Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:09 am

Quoting skymiler (Reply 13):
any chance that DL could acquire the kissing cousin MD-95 (oops B717) if WN decides they do not want them after the SOC is complete?

Some speculation on that very subject in this thread-
https://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/read.main/5237731/

FlyASAGuy2005 · Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:58 am

Quoting kl911 (Reply 3):
Are they still being build? And why is DL choosing for such an technically old plane when there are more modern ones out. I thought their narrowbody order in 2012 would replace the MD's?

Technically old? That's relative I guess. First one enteres service in 1995. Sure the cockpit isn't all glass but this is because of customer preference, not the airplane itself. what you see on the SV 90s was to be standard but DL and others wanted cockpit commonality with their MD80s. MDD, the company that they were that was all "customer specifics" went ahead with the old EFIS cockpits like on the 88s. The MD90 shares the same engine as the 319/320; V2500s. Very smart move on Delta's part. They are buying a/c for pennies on the dollar compared to sa a brand new 738 but has the exact same seating capacity (16FC 144YC).

Quoting DLMD90 (Reply 7):
Is Delta still doing the reburbs on the MD88s? It was my understanding the Md88s were not really planned to go anywhere anytime soon!?

Yes. Expect all to be complete 'around' 2013 or earlier. The 763ER mods should be done around that time as well.

intsim · Sat Aug 27, 2011 7:03 am

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 15):
The MD90 shares the same engine as the 319/320; V2500s. Very smart move on Delta's part.

Hello,

The old NWA A319/320s have the CFM not the IAE.

Jeff

FlyASAGuy2005 · Sat Aug 27, 2011 9:19 am

Quoting intsim (Reply 16):
Hello,

The old NWA A319/320s have the CFM not the IAE.

Jeff

You're absolutely right, but I was referring to 319s/320s in general. Not the ones in Delta's fleet.

kl911 · Sat Aug 27, 2011 9:38 am

Thanks for all the answers guys! I had no idea the MD90 had the same amount of seats as a 738. Always thought it was much smaller.

BrianDromey · Sat Aug 27, 2011 11:14 am

Quoting kl911 (Reply 18):
Thanks for all the answers guys! I had no idea the MD90 had the same amount of seats as a 738. Always thought it was much smaller.

The MD-90 had to be lengthened over the MD-80 due to the additional weight of the IAE engines over the original Pratt's, at least that is how the story goes.

Personally I think this is a great move on DL's part. It is using limited resources wisely. With similar economics to OEO 738s and A320s, but for millions less it is a no-brainer. DL can then go ahead and replace the 757 fleet with an appropriate aircraft (737-900ER, in this case), which they also probably got a good deal on considering the market at the moment, the historical 'gentleman's agreement' and that the -900ER has not been a great seller.

mir2069 · Sat Aug 27, 2011 11:33 am

seen 2 at a time being worked on in miami int.

stlAV8R · Sat Aug 27, 2011 1:42 pm

Quoting kl911 (Reply 3):
Which process are you refering to?

I was told by a TechOps manager that because maintenance practices vary from carrier to carrier, converting all of their standards to DLs, then making sure the plane is up to speed with the required checks, then getting it approved by the FAA is a very lengthy and tedious process.

bigbird · Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:47 pm

I know that there is a lot of difference on the Chinese airplanes as far as maintenance goes but I would think that the SAS and JAL planes would be able to enter DL service more quickly.

n7371f · Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:49 pm

For what it's worth, the MD-90 is fast becoming the most despised a/c in the fleet from the flight attendant group. And as a Diamond Medallion I'll say it's right there at the bottom of preferred a/c to fly on.

While Delta gets credit for gathering up these second-hand birds (the same playbook Richard worked under at NWA with the DC-10-30's and DC-9's), the M9K's are so jam packed it's hard not to feel like everything is crammed in there. I even feel that way in the first class section...probably due to the constant traffic of flight attendants serving the 144 coach seats from the very front.

I'm real curious to see if Delta makes good on its plans to equip the M9K's with in-seat AVOD. This has been the plan for two years now. But with so many retrofits rolling out with no AVOD, I'm beginning to wonder if this was scuttled. At least some, if not all, the M9K's are pre-wired for AVOD. Installs were suppose to start this fall but I haven't heard anything from TechOps. The AVOD install is to also include power outlets.

KingAir200 · Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:53 pm

Quoting n7371f (Reply 23):
At least some, if not all, the M9K's are pre-wired for AVOD.

I've seen a few used ones with new seats that have cutouts for PTVs at least. None of the DL originals have the new seats, at least not yet.

[Edited 2011-08-27 08:56:02]

NWA330nut · Sun Aug 28, 2011 1:02 am

Are DL's MD-90's based at MSP? If not, where?

e38 · Sun Aug 28, 2011 1:49 am

Quoting NWA330nut (Reply 25), "Are DL's MD-90's based at MSP? If not, where?"

Delta's MD-90s are not based at one particular airport, nor are the MD-88s.

Currently, the pilots assigned to fly the MD-88 are all MD-90 qualified as well and the current MD-88/MD-90 crew bases are Minneapolis/St. Paul, Atlanta, Cincinnati, and New York. The New York-based crews are responsible for flights originating/terminating JFK, LGA, and EWR.

The number of pilots assigned to each base on the MD-88/MD-90 are as follows (approximate):

Atlanta: 965 pilots
Minneapolis: 325 pilots
New York: 165 pilots
Cincinnati: 125 pilots

e38

chrisair · Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:30 am

Quoting n7371f (Reply 23):
And as a Diamond Medallion I'll say it's right there at the bottom of preferred a/c to fly on.

Why? I didn't think F was too bad. It's been 10+ years since I was in the back on one (back when DL was going to "get rid" of them), so I don't know what coach is like.

C767P · Sun Aug 28, 2011 4:40 am

Quoting n7371f (Reply 23):
For what it's worth, the MD-90 is fast becoming the most despised a/c in the fleet from the flight attendant group. And as a Diamond Medallion I'll say it's right there at the bottom of preferred a/c to fly on.

While Delta gets credit for gathering up these second-hand birds (the same playbook Richard worked under at NWA with the DC-10-30's and DC-9's), the M9K's are so jam packed it's hard not to feel like everything is crammed in there.

I can understand why flight attendants might not like the M9Ks with more seats and no rear galley. What I will never understand is how passengers complain about it. Jam packed? It is not like the seats are closer together compared to any other plane. I prefer the 2-3 seating and found the old configuration to be just as comfortable as the new one.

What makes it so “jammed packed”? What did I miss when on was on the M9K that nobody likes?

n7371f · Sun Aug 28, 2011 6:02 am

Quoting C767P (Reply 28):
What makes it so “jammed packed”? What did I miss when on was on the M9K that nobody likes?

Well the first class seats are smaller, first off. That's a norm with any MDC 80 or 90 series. The cabin is narrower, also a norm. The bulkhead is now gone between the first cabin and coach replaced by the NW-like fabric divider - that, to me, creates far less of a separate cabin feel with more space. And the congregation of all galley service from the front just makes it feel more cramped to me. Maybe if DL wasn't running these things MCO-MSP and MSP-SAN, I wouldn't have felt as closed in for 3.5 hours.

skymiler · Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:43 am

Quoting chrisair (Reply 27):
Why? I didn't think F was too bad. It's been 10+ years since I was in the back on one (back when DL was going to "get rid" of them), so I don't know what coach is like.

Had several in the last 2 weeks -- ATL -> DCA, MSP -> ATL, etc.. Seemed just fine to me -- simply another form of MD-88. FWIW, the new F seats are a vast improvement over the previous ones that could not take a standard briefcase underneath!

C767P · Sun Aug 28, 2011 2:02 pm

Quoting n7371f (Reply 29):
Maybe if DL wasn't running these things MCO-MSP and MSP-SAN, I wouldn't have felt as closed in for 3.5 hours.

The only flight I have been on a M9K -90 was on MSP-SAN and I enjoyed it. I was in the back and had the only difference from the old configuration was that it did feel longer and there was no IFE.

The only time I have ever felt cramped on a MD plane was the one time when I was on the 3 side of an -82.

Personal preference I guess. I also like the plane for the fact that its now rare and unique. Its nice to have variety.

FlyASAGuy2005 · Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:11 pm

Quoting skymiler (Reply 30):
Had several in the last 2 weeks -- ATL -> DCA, MSP -> ATL, etc.. Seemed just fine to me -- simply another form of MD-88. FWIW, the new F seats are a vast improvement over the previous ones that could not take a standard briefcase underneath!

I actually like the new seats on the M8Rs in F. Are those the same ones? I haven't been on an M9K.

Quoting n7371f (Reply 29):
The bulkhead is now gone between the first cabin and coach replaced by the NW-like fabric divider - that, to me, creates far less of a separate cabin feel with more space

That's actually something that elites complained about (the wall). Because they HAD to put their bags in the overhead bin or if they got to the gate late, even though they still boarded when they wanted to, the space may be taken. Now, they can slide their person bag under the F seat.

KingAir200 · Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:33 pm

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 32):
I actually like the new seats on the M8Rs in F. Are those the same ones? I haven't been on an M9K.

They are.

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 32):
Now, they can slide their person bag under the F seat.

I much prefer the soft bulkhead too. It makes the first row of coach a lot better. More legroom and underseat storage.

TrijetsRMissed · Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:04 am

Quoting B727FA (Reply 9):

117 MD88 and 28 MD90 with 30 MD90 in the pipeline for DOS by 2013.

It will be interesting to see if the 20 additional MD-90s (on top of the current pipeline) will be taken up, as previously speculated. I think the fleet will grow to an eventual 80+ frames - with the remaining frames purchased at a later date to reduce acquisition costs further, as these frames further depreciate. This of course is assuming only 58 presently are confirmed.

dbo861 · Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:51 am

Quoting KingAir200 (Reply 24):
I've seen a few used ones with new seats that have cutouts for PTVs at least. None of the DL originals have the new seats, at least not yet.

Maybe it's just because the seats are brand new, or maybe I'm just imagining things, but I rode one of these MD-90s last week and it seemed the new seat covers on these are a cheaper material than what DL normally uses. It might just be that the seats are new and the cushioning still needs to be broken in, but it seemed that the seats were much stiffer than normal, and the leather felt..cheap. Has anyone else noticed this?

The cutouts for the PTVs look a lot bigger than current PTVs on DL 737 and 757s. Will the new entertainment system on these birds be different than currently used on other aircraft?

New seats on Delta's MD-90s

TVNWZ · Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:39 am

Quoting C767P (Reply 28):

I can understand why flight attendants might not like the M9Ks with more seats and no rear galley. What I will never understand is how passengers complain about it. Jam packed?

The biggest issue for me is the galley only being in the front. If you are in the first two rows of FC on the aisle, you are constantly getting knocked around by the FA's as they trolley up the aisle and back. It appears very hard to get the carts back in their storage slots. Also, the seating is harder. And more uncomfortable. I much prefer the DC9s over the 90s any day.

1337Delta764 · Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:03 am

Quoting dbo861 (Reply 35):
The cutouts for the PTVs look a lot bigger than current PTVs on DL 737 and 757s. Will the new entertainment system on these birds be different than currently used on other aircraft?

DL was planning on installing the new Panasonic Eco 9i Integrated Smart Monitors on these aircraft. The seats are a customized version of the Weber 5751 designed for those monitors. These same seats/monitors will also be going on the 744s and on the 763ERs that do not currently have AVOD already installed.

The A330s will also get the Panasonic Eco 9i, but the seat will instead be a customized version of the B/E Aerospace Pinnacle. I presume the 739ERs will probably get the Pinnacle seat as well.

b727fa · Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:23 pm

The FAs on those ships HATE them. There's no way to pre-set the carts for service b/c they're right there at the 1L boarding door.

If more than one FA is up there they simply can't move--literally on top of each other. Usually the two in front put the carts together, then they call the back two FA's up for the Y service. It's not worth the hassle to set up a second cart. All this time the F class svc is delayed.

On the DC-9-50's they have a FWD galley only, but it's HUGE--you could hold a barn dance up there! Not so much on the M8R/M9K.

skymiler · Tue Aug 30, 2011 1:58 am

Quoting B727FA (Reply 38):
The FAs on those ships HATE them. There's no way to pre-set the carts for service b/c they're right there at the 1L boarding door

I have heard the same from F/A's on the re-fitted MD-88's. I have caught several recently, by chance, and the story is the same every time.

Have 1 (supposedly, according to the seat map) ATL -> EWR tomorrow late afternoon -- will see how the dinner service works.

n7371f · Tue Aug 30, 2011 9:37 pm

Quoting dbo861 (Reply 35):
Maybe it's just because the seats are brand new, or maybe I'm just imagining things, but I rode one of these MD-90s last week and it seemed the new seat covers on these are a cheaper material than what DL normally uses. It might just be that the seats are new and the cushioning still needs to be broken in, but it seemed that the seats were much stiffer than normal, and the leather felt..cheap. Has anyone else noticed this?

The cutouts for the PTVs look a lot bigger than current PTVs on DL 737 and 757s. Will the new entertainment system on these birds be different than currently used on other aircraft?
New seats on Delta's MD-90s

Are these coach seats? Must be. I've only been on the original delivery M90 and the ex-China M90's (now known as M9C) and they did not have these new seats. The China plane had China spec seats in coach.

asqx · Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:37 pm

I've seen these seats on 9223 (or was it 9224?) and that is an ex-China Eastern plane. They are a little more roomy than the old Delta seats, at least enough to make my short flight to Salt Lake comfortable, but the bottoms are a bit hard just like the 737-800 seats.

Here's a break down of the what Planespotters.net shows as Delta's fleet of active, stored and "on order" MD-90s and their origins:

Ships 9201-9216 are the original Delta birds.

Ships 9217-9218 were originally delivered to KTHY - Kibris Turk Hava Yollari / Cyprus Turkish Airlines but were last operated by Hello.

Ship 9219 was originally delivered to AMC Aviation but was also last operated by Hello.

Ships 9220-9228 were originally delivered to, and acquired by Delta from, China Eastern Airlines.

Ships 9229-9233 were originally with Scandinavian but last operated by Blue1.

Ships 9234-9236 were originally with Scandinavian but last operated by Hello.

Ships 9253-9259, 9261, 9264, 9265 were first delivered to China Northern but were aquired from China Southern.

cslusarc · Tue Aug 30, 2011 11:36 pm

So what's up with Ships 9237-9252, 9260 and 9262-9263?

asqx · Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:38 am

Quoting cslusarc (Reply 42):
So what's up with Ships 9237-9252, 9260 and 9262-9263?

They haven't yet entered the fleet or been acquired, at least according to Planespotters.net

One other side note, ships 9264 and 9265 appear to be two of the MD-90Ts built in China.

n7371f · Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:47 pm

Quoting asqx (Reply 43):
One other side note, ships 9264 and 9265 appear to be two of the MD-90Ts built in China.

They are.

These MD-90's are officially listed as SAIC MD-90-30's.

a300 · Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:55 am

Quoting n7371f (Reply 44):
One other side note, ships 9264 and 9265 appear to be two of the MD-90Ts built in China.

In fact, the only two ever made in China.

laca773 · Sat Sep 03, 2011 10:30 am

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 36):

The biggest issue for me is the galley only being in the front. If you are in the first two rows of FC on the aisle, you are constantly getting knocked around by the FA's as they trolley up the aisle and back. It appears very hard to get the carts back in their storage slots. Also, the seating is harder. And more uncomfortable. I much prefer the DC9s over the 90s any day.

Is there any chance if enough cabin crews complain, they will go back and re-install a rear galley or at least enlarge the front one? It must be very difficult to do any service on these birds, especially if DL is assigning them to fly 3-3.5 hour flights to/from MSP, i.e., MSP-SJC/SAN/MCO/TPA and etc..

b727fa · Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:10 pm

What would help would be to return the cart slot to the back of the a/c. There they could place a Y Class Bev/Snack cart and all that would have to come from the front would be coffee/tea. That would cut the traffic in front tremendously. Plus the cart could be set up prior to departure.

seabosdca · Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:18 pm

Quoting cslusarc (Reply 42):
So what's up with Ships 9237-9252, 9260 and 9262-9263?

There were a total of 13 China Southern birds, so I assume 9260 and 9262-9263 will be the assigned to the other three.

9237-9252 will fit the 16 JAL birds perfectly...

There are also the 11 Taiwanese birds out there, which it's hard to believe that DL won't eventually want.

[Edited 2011-09-07 10:21:10]

tristarcrazy · Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:06 pm

There is a MD-90 getting sprayed in bay 12 paint hanger ATL but not sure which bird. There is also another MD-90 on the ramp outside of TOC-II awaiting paint. See if I can get some ship numbers tomorrow.

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