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breiz
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Strategic Al. Becomes Air Australia

Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:30 pm

"Brisbane-based Strategic Airlines announced Friday it will be renamed Air Australia later this year."

http://atwonline.com/airline-finance...lines-rebranded-air-australia-0902

Definitely a better name.
The design is ok, with a reservation about the cs shades.
 
CXfirst
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RE: Strategic Al. Becomes Air Australia

Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:14 pm

Too bad this wasn't decided earlier. They've already spent quite a bit advertising for Strategic, but not enough for people to really care about the name change. In a year, most people won't know Air Australia and Strategic were the same thing. Seems they need to advertise again.

-CXfirst
 
gilesdavies
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RE: Strategic Al. Becomes Air Australia

Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:31 pm

Is this the same Strategic Airlines that has been operating a number charters from the UK this summer from LGW and MAN to the likes of Greece and Turkey?

My mum flew them a few weeks ago...

That would seem strange getting on an A320 in the UK, flying to likes of Greece with an airline called Air Australia!

[Edited 2011-09-05 06:33:05]
 
aircanada014
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RE: Strategic Al. Becomes Air Australia

Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:39 pm

I was wondering could we see Star Alliance thinking about brining Air Australia onboard? I know its too early but wait few years down the road?
 
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zeke
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RE: Strategic Al. Becomes Air Australia

Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:46 pm

Already another Air Australia at YPJT

Holder Name: AIR AUSTRALIA INTERNATIONAL PTY LTD
Primary Trading Name:
Town/City: casa_aoc|JANDAKOT AIRPORT
State: WA
Issued: 2009/12/04
Expires: 2013/01/31
Number: W408506
Operations: Aerial Work; Charter (Flying Training, Charter under 5700 kgs)
Type of AOC: Australian
CASA Office: Western Region PER
AOC Holder Country: AUSTRALIA
AOC Application Status: Issued

from http://casa-query.funnelback.com/sea...ction=casa_aoc&query=air+australia
“Don't be a show-off. Never be too proud to turn back. There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old, bold pilots.” E. Hamilton Lee, 1949
 
DC3fan
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RE: Strategic Al. Becomes Air Australia

Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:50 pm

Quoting gilesdavies (Reply 2):
Is this the same Strategic Airlines that has been operating a number charters from the UK this summer from LGW and MAN to the likes of Greece and Turkey?

I was wondering the same thing, there has been 3 aircraft spending alot of time at MAN this summer, LXSTA, LXSTB and LXSTC have all been operating flights for LS, and also under there own STU Strategic flight numbers. But speaking with the crew they say that the aircraft are based in Luxembourg and alot of the crew are actually based in MAN. But then the winglets on the aircraft are like the old Ansett Australia paint scheme, blue, and green split with a yellow wavy line with white stars on the blue section.

EDIT: Looking in the Database it is only LXSTB with the Australian looking winglets. Also the CGI of the new CS is very nice.

[Edited 2011-09-05 06:53:52]
 
planesailing
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RE: Strategic Al. Becomes Air Australia

Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:24 pm

Quoting gilesdavies (Reply 2):

Is this the same Strategic Airlines that has been operating a number charters from the UK this summer from LGW and MAN to the likes of Greece and Turkey?

My mum flew them a few weeks ago...

That would seem strange getting on an A320 in the UK, flying to likes of Greece with an airline called Air Australia!
Quoting DC3fan (Reply 5):
I was wondering the same thing, there has been 3 aircraft spending alot of time at MAN this summer, LXSTA, LXSTB and LXSTC have all been operating flights for LS, and also under there own STU Strategic flight numbers. But speaking with the crew they say that the aircraft are based in Luxembourg and alot of the crew are actually based in MAN. But then the winglets on the aircraft are like the old Ansett Australia paint scheme, blue, and green split with a yellow wavy line with white stars on the blue section.

Yes they are the same. It has been rumored online that Olympic Holidays will be chartering Strategic Airlines for their 2012 flying, so I am not sure what the name of the airline will be for the Luxembourg (UK) ops.

STU has been flying from MAN and LGW for Olympic Holidays following the demise of their contract and relations with Monarch.
 
smi0006
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RE: Strategic Al. Becomes Air Australia

Mon Sep 05, 2011 3:27 pm

I love the livery I think it looks great! The green and gold or mix like they have is very Australian and love the boomarang too! Can't wait to see what their uniforms look like! I believe they have one LX A332 atm and maybe getting another one soon, or else a factory fresh one or two leased. Eventually the fleet will build to 7. I hope they upgrade their business cabin to somewhat like the D7 ones are with angled sleepers, their current ex-LX offering is equal to their competitors to HNL; JQ, QF(dodge old 767s) and HA. Mix in some AVOD and they have a better product then their full service competitors!

They have stated previously they will begin service to China this time next year, and maybe India too. With HNL increasing from 2 to 3 weekly looks promising on that route!

Haha in my dream world would love to seem them lease the ex-AC A345s that JJ just grounded... would be perfect for MEL-JNB and MEL-YYZ.

Good luck to them regardless, probs an Aussie thing but I always like to see an underdog come up and win!

Quoting aircanada014 (Reply 3):
I was wondering could we see Star Alliance thinking about brining Air Australia onboard? I know its too early but wait few years down the road?

I doubt it VC or now Air Australia is an LCC (they have a few A320s and an A330 atm so no real contribution) I can't see them joining, DJ would seem a better fit with their relationship with SQ, although they also have a JV with DL I think they are content being a sluzz lol.

Quoting DC3fan (Reply 5):
But then the winglets on the aircraft are like the old Ansett Australia paint scheme, blue, and green split with a yellow wavy line with white stars on the blue section.

I think this is a relic of the aircraft being operated with Strategic Airlines in Austrlia as part of a joint venture with Soloman Island Airlines, I think this aircraft operated from Brisbane to Honiara for a period.
 
sydaircargo
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RE: Strategic Al. Becomes Air Australia

Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:31 pm

would be god to see another Australian International Carrier being successful.

Go Air Australia
 
eaglefarm4
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RE: Strategic Al. Becomes Air Australia

Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:55 am

They are technically a separate division .The European arm is run separately to the Australian division.
tourismman
 
WestJet747
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RE: Strategic Al. Becomes Air Australia

Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:00 am

Great name. Great livery. I'm excited to see the product they offer.

With Qantas International in the dumps lately, I wonder how well they will capitalize on this opportunity, regardless of how small operations are at the start? Especially with Virgin as an up-and-comer.
Flying refined.
 
Lufthansa
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RE: Strategic Al. Becomes Air Australia

Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:23 am

Wrong name I think
but at least they got a proper graffic design firm to come up with something!

What they need to do is stop attempting to cling onto nationalism. It ain't gonna work
if they wanna expand beyond our boarders or do things like UK charters... and for an airline
chasing this kind of seasonal business this is important because they can send the aircraft
north when it is the low season in Australia.

So i second the comments about it would be weird flying from the UK to mediterranean destinations
on the likes of Air Australia. But at least they have something modern and fresh looking.
But this clinging onto nationalism is growing tired and boring. It's lazy and poor marketing. Back
when impulse tried to stick a giant cockatoo on its tail, it had no impact on the market and nor
will this boomerang. QF has the kangaroo... and it's iconic. But just because QF does it doesnt
mean it will work for all these other companies. You don't see Scandinavian carriers sticking Deer
all over the place. And typically there is room for just 1 carrier...often the old 'flag carrier' in a given
market going down this path. And in Qantas' case... we know it hasn't been that successful in
keeping passengers loyal. It doesn't stop passengers picking Singapore Air and Emirates in large numbers.

It makes me wonder if the owners of this company have some kind of delusions of grandeur that they
can oneday be the flag carrier of the nation or something? So verdict is mixed. nice to see something
looking more contemporary, but abandon the boomerang and the nationalism. They can use the word
"australia' in their name if they like... because if it s XXXXX Australia, you can also have XXXX new zealand
and XXXXX Singapore.... etc. But for a small company I wouldn't bother, to allow them maximum
flexibility and opportunity.
 
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mariner
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RE: Strategic Al. Becomes Air Australia

Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:33 am

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 11):
What they need to do is stop attempting to cling onto nationalism.

I like the name a lot, and I like the livery. For a small airline making its way in the world, it is the start of a personality.

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 11):
So i second the comments about it would be weird flying from the UK to mediterranean destinations
on the likes of Air Australia.

The European operations fly under a different (Luxembourg) AOC. And all their work is charter there, so I don't see that it matters what it is called.

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 11):
But at least they have something modern and fresh looking.
But this clinging onto nationalism is growing tired and boring.

Again, I like it - a lot. Infinitely better than some bland, meaningless name invented by some hyped up pr firm.

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 11):
It makes me wonder if the owners of this company have some kind of delusions of grandeur that they
can oneday be the flag carrier of the nation or something?

What a strange leap.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
pugsley
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RE: Strategic Al. Becomes Air Australia

Tue Sep 06, 2011 4:31 am

I can not find the article at the moment, however its only the Australian LCC operation that is being re-branded Air Australia, the charter division in both Australia and Luxembourg will continue to operate under the Strategic brand.
A319/320/321, A332/3, A343, A359, A388, AT7, BAe146, B717, B733/4/5/G/H/9, B743/4/4ER, B762/3, B772/3, B788/9, Dash8, ERJ135, ERJ170/175
 
eaglefarm4
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RE: Strategic Al. Becomes Air Australia

Tue Sep 06, 2011 5:12 am

Lufthansa, when they had the name Strategic it would mean nothing to people in Australia,USA,China,Thailand and wherever they next plan to fly,to explain which country they are from, however with the name Air Australia at least you know where they are from.

I can recall passengers at Brisbane airport querying the airline Air Paradise from Indonesia asking constantly who are they,where are they from ? at least with Air Australia you will know.

No they are not trying to be the next flag carrier they are just doing it for the above reason.
Nothing wrong with the boomerang at least they will come back.
tourismman
 
Lufthansa
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RE: Strategic Al. Becomes Air Australia

Tue Sep 06, 2011 5:34 am

Quoting eaglefarm4 (Reply 14):
Lufthansa, when they had the name Strategic it would mean nothing to people in Australia,USA,China,Thailand and wherever they next plan to fly,to explain which country they are from, however with the name Air Australia at least you know where they are from

You could say that about Jetstar too! Proper branding and marketing to a given market prove otherwise. Unless their strategy is 'cut and run' from different markets continually, or serve the markets more like a charter carrier does operating a serious over a given period, (assuming strictly only to and from Australia) this is of little relevance. You have already made the sale by the time they turn up to the airport. It also fails to pass the test... what happens If i try and fly from Auckland to thailand? It assumes the carrier will never get business beyond it's australian home market. I think this carriers best hope is to act more like the euro's ...the condor's, thomas cooks and TUI fly's of the world. Some markets they can serve year round but they need flexibility. If they got their act together, there is no reason why they couldn't start weekly charters from Auckland to Phuket or even mexico city for part of the year, have the a/c turn around, and then continue back to australia, or even during the low season (ie - euro summer) do work over there with the big package operators. And as more asians can afford to travel get in on these markets the same way. It isn't unusal at all to see a british registered TUI 767-300 on the ramp at helsinki, to take people to thailand or the canary islands. They need to start thinking like that. I think you can do 30 something charters a year on a given route without needing air traffic rights where bilatral restrictions are in place. That gives them a lot of seasonal holiday destinations to work with outside their home markets.

[Edited 2011-09-05 22:41:01]
 
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mariner
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RE: Strategic Al. Becomes Air Australia

Tue Sep 06, 2011 5:44 am

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 15):
You could say that about Jetstar too!

I do.

One of my dislikes about Jetstar is the name, it is so completely bland and homogenized, lacking any real sense of identity. Curious, then, that they felt the need to add at least the area they serve for the subsidiary - Jetstar Asia.

But Jetstar has the massive resources and muscle of Qantas behind it. Air Australia does not have that and needs to leverage every asset that it can to establish it's identity.

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 15):
It also fails to pass the test... what happens If i try and fly from Auckland to thailand?

People were more than happy to fly Pan American without ever going to the US (or the Americas) and I don't think any were confused.

I once flew Pan American AKL-SYD. And FRA-TXL.

mariner

[Edited 2011-09-05 22:52:23]
aeternum nauta
 
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Mikey86
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RE: Strategic Al. Becomes Air Australia

Tue Sep 06, 2011 5:59 am

Interesting colour scheme, its nice but it definitely suites for a low coast carrier. Its definitely going to confuse people regarding the name change, but they will get use to it.
mikey86 - Greenslopes, Queensland
 
kiwiinoz
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RE: Strategic Al. Becomes Air Australia

Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:22 am

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 1):
In a year, most people won't know Air Australia and Strategic were the same thing

I agree entirely, especially considering the fact that there is probably a less than 50/50 chance of the airline still operating in a year
 
Lufthansa
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RE: Strategic Al. Becomes Air Australia

Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:40 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 16):
One of my dislikes about Jetstar is the name, it is so completely bland and homogenized, lacking any real sense of identity. Curious, then, that they felt the need to add at least the area they serve for the subsidiary - Jetstar Asia.

They actually dumped the 'asia' part for marketing purposes. There are no longer seperate websites, the aircraft no longer say jetstair asia, but rather just jetstar.com and there are no reference to jetstar asia except for the flight code being different, and the odd old piece of marketing material/signage that hasn't been updated. Obviously the company 'jetstar aisa' still has to exist for bilaterial reasons but it's largely just sold as 'jetstar'.

Quoting mariner (Reply 16):
People were more than happy to fly Pan American without ever going to the US (or the Americas) and I don't think any were confused.

You are comparing it to what was at the time the worlds most powerful and premeir airline, with more global recognition and presitige than any other airline on the face of the planet at its peak. In words, a very well known and trusted brand. The fact it was American wouldn't seem odd. Just like Emirates is now known in such a strong way that it doesnt seem odd to people. It's a brand they know and trust. And the name wasn't some carrier called Air USA or Air America.

How about this. you are looking for a package holiday trip Between australia and new zealand. Let's say Siberia Airlines, S7 or Aerosvit turns up as an option, 2 carriers most people in Australia and NZ would have never heard of. 3 possible different outcomes. Firstly, if it is the only carrier flying directly into the port, many passengers would probably book it, particularly if they are reassured by their travel agent it's perfectly okay. Those booking online may not be quite so easily convinced. Next situation: It's not the only carrier on the route, Air NZ and Jetstar also fly the route. If the price is the same, we would see the trusted names, JQ and NZ fill up first. Only if S7 or Aerosvit were 'substancially' cheaper would we expect the passengers to chose this brand they didn't know. So their situation isn't impossible, but down the path as they expand, they're positioning themselves at a disadvantage expanding into other markets. it's just this 'odd' thing that they are about the place which will make it harder to build up brand recognition in these markets. Initially, yes it would probably help particularly with sales ex - australia because it doesnt seem like some foreign company nobody's ever heard of, it is, at least local. And at the outpoints...well it's obviously going to Australia. But that is really only a short term advantage, and this carrier needs to position itself with a degree of flexibility to survive. If a market is too big, it's gonna have jetstar on it's tail really quick. BNE-HNL works well? Watch JQ start flying there when they have more spare aircraft.... but if its just seasonal. And say, in the Aussie summer they can redeploy the aircraft to say a north american ski destination... well different story.

Just as an aside, I have it on good terms that Strategic has been poaching young QF A330 trained FA's. They poached 20 something QF casuals last month. Basically let QF train them, and too a higher standard than they would need... and then VC just have a quick induction and they're off. If they piss the red rodant off... they may just find the orange star discounting heavily to their new destinations via other ports. Sounds like they're playing with fire here... if jetstar dumped capacity on their routes they could do it until VC ran out of cash.
 
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Mikey86
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RE: Strategic Al. Becomes Air Australia

Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:44 am

Quoting kiwiinoz (Reply 18):

I agree entirely, especially considering the fact that there is probably a less than 50/50 chance of the airline still operating in a year

IMO, I think the chances of VC surviving is greater than that. VC targets unique markets that no one else services, besides BNE-DPS and the recently announced BNE-MEL. The only tough thing they have to face is the lack of flow through traffic, with no airline partners this could be very tough. Although with VC now changing their business module to focus in the low-cost market, this could prove for a very interesting ride and the flow through traffic/airlines partners may not be a necessity anymore. Time will tell.
mikey86 - Greenslopes, Queensland
 
qf002
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RE: Strategic Al. Becomes Air Australia

Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:03 am

Quoting aircanada014 (Reply 3):
I was wondering could we see Star Alliance thinking about brining Air Australia onboard? I know its too early but wait few years down the road?

Around the same time as Thomson becomes their UK partner maybe...

Quoting mariner (Reply 16):
One of my dislikes about Jetstar is the name, it is so completely bland and homogenized, lacking any real sense of identity. Curious, then, that they felt the need to add at least the area they serve for the subsidiary - Jetstar Asia.

I think Jetstar always had its eyes set on a future beyond Australia though, and having the Jetstar brand (rather than JetAustraliaStar or whatever) allows them to offer a consistent and global commercial front across multiple markets. It's like Coca Cola doesn't call itself America Cola, then sell its products around the world, Apple doesn't call itself American Apple then sell its products around the world...

Having said that, I do agree that they could have been a little bit more creative with the name and much of their branding -- but it serves its purpose and must have been pretty cheap to do.
 
NTLDaz
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RE: Strategic Al. Becomes Air Australia

Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:53 am

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 19):

You are comparing it to what was at the time the worlds most powerful and premeir airline, with more global recognition and presitige than any other airline on the face of the planet at its peak. In words, a very well known and trusted brand. The fact it was American wouldn't seem odd. Just like Emirates is now known in such a strong way that it doesnt seem odd to people. It's a brand they know and trust. And the name wasn't some carrier called Air USA or Air America.

Yet plenty of people will hop on LAN or Aerolineas to fly between Syd - AKL because it is cheap. Most people flying between Syd - Akl don't know much about these airlines. I think the comparison is Mariner makes is fine. For many years United and Continental flew Sydney - AKL and took many passengers. I don't think being called Air Australia will hurt them but will in fact give them more of an identity in what will be their core market.
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: Strategic Al. Becomes Air Australia

Tue Sep 06, 2011 9:23 am

Quoting pugsley (Reply 13):
I can not find the article at the moment, however its only the Australian LCC operation that is being re-branded Air Australia, the charter division in both Australia and Luxembourg will continue to operate under the Strategic brand.

The only downside now is that planes will likely be in different liveries, or may need to be repainted if moved between divisions. Currently that isnt the case.

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 19):
Just as an aside, I have it on good terms that Strategic has been poaching young QF A330 trained FA's. They poached 20 something QF casuals last month. Basically let QF train them, and too a higher standard than they would need... and then VC just have a quick induction and they're off. If they piss the red rodant off... they may just find the orange star discounting heavily to their new destinations via other ports. Sounds like they're playing with fire here... if jetstar dumped capacity on their routes they could do it until VC ran out of cash.

Sounds like they tried to play it smart, but yes, it is playing with fire  
Quoting mikey86 (Reply 20):
IMO, I think the chances of VC surviving is greater than that. VC targets unique markets that no one else services, besides BNE-DPS and the recently announced BNE-MEL. The only tough thing they have to face is the lack of flow through traffic, with no airline partners this could be very tough. Although with VC now changing their business module to focus in the low-cost market, this could prove for a very interesting ride and the flow through traffic/airlines partners may not be a necessity anymore. Time will tell.

They seem to be moving away from that 'unique' selling point though.

They started out looking for markets with no competition, but that has evolved. The latest moves, including MEL-BNE, and even the HNL routes are more in line with their new strategy. HNL may not have non-stop competition into either MEL or BNE, but given the amount of SYD capacity, its a very competitive landscape to enter. HKT and likely PVG have less direct competitive pressure, but that can change very quickly.

Quoting qf002 (Reply 21):
Having said that, I do agree that they could have been a little bit more creative with the name and much of their branding -- but it serves its purpose and must have been pretty cheap to do.

Not sure any of these rebrandings are ever done cheaply. Even the most basic new name and logo likely costs are small fortune.
 
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mariner
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RE: Strategic Al. Becomes Air Australia

Tue Sep 06, 2011 9:29 am

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 19):
They actually dumped the 'asia' part for marketing purposes.

They used it to establish who they are, to get known, to make the point of connection, identity. Now it is becoming more than that.

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 19):
The fact it was American wouldn't seem odd.

So why is Air Australia odd? Most people in the world know where Australia and it gives the airline an immediate point of contact with the airline, an identity.

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 19):
How about this. you are looking for a package holiday trip Between australia and new zealand. Let's say Siberia Airlines, S7 or Aerosvit turns up as an option, 2 carriers most people in Australia and NZ would have never heard of.

I think most people in the world wouldn't know S7/Aerosvit, but they've probably heard of Siberia and have that point of contact, even if it is only curiosity.

A young company selling a brand has to provide the most immediate points of connection/identification because otherwise people will just sail right past it.

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 19):
Initially, yes it would probably help particularly with sales ex - australia because it doesnt seem like some foreign company nobody's ever heard of, it is, at least local.

Exactly.

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 19):
And at the outpoints...well it's obviously going to Australia. But that is really only a short term advantage, and this carrier needs to position itself with a degree of flexibility to survive.

And they need the short term advantage. Then, when they become established, there is the familiarity.

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 19):
If a market is too big, it's gonna have jetstar on it's tail really quick.

That may happen no matter what it is called.

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 19):
And say, in the Aussie summer they can redeploy the aircraft to say a north american ski destination... well different story.

Huh? Air Australia can only do that (scheduled) if the flight begins in Australia. But the airline can go seasonal on any route if it wants.

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 19):
If they piss the red rodant off... they may just find the orange star discounting heavily to their new destinations via other ports. Sounds like they're playing with fire here... if jetstar dumped capacity on their routes they could do it until VC ran out of cash.

That applies to any competitive start-up in Australia but (a) what does that have to do with the name? and (b) that's one reason why Air Australia is avoiding Sydney.

Jetstar can do all these things and Air Australia has to be nimble. I see no evidence that it won't be nimble. So far, Strategic has shown no reluctance to flee routes that don't work.

Jetstar is going to have to be fairly nimble, too. I can't imagine the Asian airlines are going to be too thrilled about the Qantas Asian plans.

I like what Air Australia is doing and wish it well. I am looking forward to the day it announces the China route.

mariner

[Edited 2011-09-06 02:39:33]
aeternum nauta
 
qf002
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RE: Strategic Al. Becomes Air Australia

Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:04 am

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 23):
Not sure any of these rebrandings are ever done cheaply. Even the most basic new name and logo likely costs are small fortune.

Well JQ was royally ripped off if they paid a fortune for their branding... It looks to me like they asked a work experience student to do most of it over a couple of days using powerpoint and paint.
 
Lufthansa
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RE: Strategic Al. Becomes Air Australia

Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:04 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 24):
That applies to any competitive start-up in Australia but (a) what does that have to do with the name?

Nothing which is why I said 'as an aside' , given we are all talking about Air Australia, i thought it was some gossip that you may all find interesting. To do that, they've got balls, I'll give them that! Just to succeed I think they're gonna have to move closer to the european charter carriers model. There has long been a big gap in the market with that, with the exisiting carriers cost structures too high, until jetstar came along anyway. Places like HKT should have long been on the menu. But there are plenty more interesting destinations. maybe Australia - NZ - Puerto Vallarta/Cancun. Or Australia, pacific islandfuel stop Denver during the ski season. Ditto for LAS Goa in India. The Hymalays. During the peak part of the year they could probably run a twice weekly service to South Africa from PER. Maybe pick capetown or durban as an entrypoint. Even a serious of charters to say Peru... for adventure seekers wanting to see the Inka sights. If they get the right package holiday tour operators onboard there are a lot of possibilities here. And if it works and they need longer range aircraft, the A340-300 has very good lease rates these days. Ditto for the 747-400. I would like to see them succeed. I'm just not so sure about their approach.
 
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mariner
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RE: Strategic Al. Becomes Air Australia

Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:24 am

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 26):
Just to succeed I think they're gonna have to move closer to the european charter carriers model.

Strategic has fairly wide experience of charter, both in Europe and Australia, it is their springboard and I suppose it may be their fallback.

But clearly Mr. James wants more, and as clearly has the balls to go for it - and the ability to bring others along.

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 26):
I would like to see them succeed. I'm just not so sure about their approach.

No one can be sure.

Your charter approach may be an interesting business model but it isn't what Mr. James is doing. Although the jury is still out on just how clever Mr. James is, it's clear he has a vision. I don't yet know if he has the drive and ruthlessness to achieve it and whether the vision is, ultimately, something I respect and admire.

So far, I think he is making most of the right moves. I don't like the 4 x daily BNE-MEL, I think it is too much capacity in the first instance and I hope it isn't indicative of the plans, but I don't what those plans for either city are.

Of course, there is risk, he could fall flat on his face, but that is what makes it interesting - to me - and quite exciting. I love watching over-achievers skate on thin ice and the thinner the ice, the more exciting I find it.

For me, taking risks is what makes life worthwhile. It would be a very dull world without the over-achievers.

mariner
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Ditzyboy
Posts: 299
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RE: Strategic Al. Becomes Air Australia

Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:48 pm

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 23):
Not sure any of these rebrandings are ever done cheaply.
Quoting qf002 (Reply 25):
Well JQ was royally ripped off if they paid a fortune for their branding... It looks to me like they asked a work experience student to do most of it

Believe it or not, the orange colour of the star was selected as it was the orange on a feature wall at a Thai restaurant the start up team would frequent near their offices in North Sydney.
 
eaglefarm4
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RE: Strategic Al. Becomes Air Australia

Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:40 pm

Believe me Mr James has plenty of ticker and enthusiasm and drive.Look if a route is unsuccessful like BNE-GLT was, they cut their losses and pull it.He has some clever people in management now which have come from Virgin and Qantas and other carriers.There is quite a bit of experience there now.

I recall reading in the Australian newspaper in March that he expected to possibly make a small profit this year depending on fuel costs.

With the BNE-MEL flights which will be 4-5 daily he is linking both his international ports with connecting flights .So if there is no MEL-HNL flight that day but there is one from BNE, then they can fly one stop from MEL via BNE.As he expands his international routes this will give the opportunity for pax to visit both cities and enter via one and depart via the other.Perhaps later ADL could be added to the connections.
tourismman
 
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mariner
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RE: Strategic Al. Becomes Air Australia

Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:06 am

Quoting eaglefarm4 (Reply 29):
With the BNE-MEL flights which will be 4-5 daily he is linking both his international ports with connecting flights .So if there is no MEL-HNL flight that day but there is one from BNE, then they can fly one stop from MEL via BNE.As he expands his international routes this will give the opportunity for pax to visit both cities and enter via one and depart via the other.Perhaps later ADL could be added to the connections.

I understand the principle and I'm not against it. I think it may be too much capacity, too soon.

As long as they are (mostly) feeder flights to the international service, I'm okay with them, but I really hope Air Australia doesn't start taking on the main (domestic) trunk routes. I would would be concerned about MEL-SYD and BNE-SYD, for example, except on a very limited basis - maybe as tags to the international flights

I really hope Mr. James sticks to his guns about SYD:

http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-...nges-direction-20110825-1jbsi.html

"The airline has decided to avoid going head-to-head with local and overseas competitors in Sydney.

"Obviously, the Sydney market's there but Sydney's very difficult with slots and the curfew and a number of other issues," James says."


mariner
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rampart
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RE: Strategic Al. Becomes Air Australia

Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:57 am

Airliners.net, where one would assume to see support for new ventures. Looks like the same negativity seen in the US also applies to Australia. I can only guess that the highly critical POV comes from investors who disagree with where their money is going? Otherwise, why care so much?

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 15):
It assumes the carrier will never get business beyond it's australian home market.

Emirates? Singapore? Cathay Pacific? Ethiopian? El Al? All had to start somewhere, in small places, yet chose names that reflected their national identity. They expected to carry, and do carry, passengers not going specifically to those nations.

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 15):
If they got their act together, there is no reason why they couldn't start weekly charters from Auckland to Phuket or even mexico city for part of the year, have the a/c turn around, and then continue back to australia, or even during the low season (ie - euro summer) do work over there with the big package operators.

It sounds like you have a business model of your own in mind. It may work, maybe you can try it some day, or someone else can try it, and you'll be satisfied. In the mean time, Air Australia is going to try theirs. I don't have a problem with that.

-Rampart
 
eaglefarm4
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RE: Strategic Al. Becomes Air Australia

Wed Sep 07, 2011 3:10 am

Yes Rampart well said.
tourismman
 
qf002
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RE: Strategic Al. Becomes Air Australia

Wed Sep 07, 2011 3:30 am

"Sydney's very difficult with slots and the curfew and a number of other issues"

Sounds like a pretty weak excuse on Mr James' part -- it's really not that difficult to work around the curfew, and the airport is not subject to heavy slot restrictions -- there are still plenty of slots available at most times of the day (except maybe the early morning rush). I think he's just trying to justify a fear of going head to head with the competition, because he knows that they will be the one to lose.

Quoting rampart (Reply 31):
Emirates? Singapore? Cathay Pacific? Ethiopian? El Al? All had to start somewhere, in small places, yet chose names that reflected their national identity.

But of those, how many already had a national carrier in their home nation? None - they were all formed as national carriers by their governments, with strong backing and a much, much, much less competitive market to enter into. You can't compare Air Australia to these now major carriers -- they are never going to be able to grow in size (or in recognition) like these examples have.
 
koruman
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RE: Strategic Al. Becomes Air Australia

Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:11 am

I have my doubts about Strategic's shift to an LCC model for Honolulu.

Phuket suits an LCC model, no argument. And Australia-Honolulu DID five years ago when Jetstar began operations, as most Aussies were staying in 2-3 star Ohana and Outrigger properties.

But the rise of the A$ beyond parity with the US$ has seen a different demographic group come to dominate Australia-HNL flights. These are passengers staying in 4 and 5 star hotel chains (Sheraton / Hilton / Marriott etc) who would not pay US$290 per night from a room when that translated to A$460 - they went to comparable hotels in Bali or Fiji instead at half the cost - but who most certainly will and do go to Hawaii when the A$ is strong and the room costs them A$270.

And I do not believe that those passengers are the same LCC demographic that Phuket and similar destinations target in Australia.

I think that Strategic's recent business model suited BNE/MEL-HNL better than Air Australia's model.

To put it in European terms, at the old exchange rate for Australians Hawaii was a destination for people wanting a "Dominican Republic" holiday from the UK. At the new exchange rate, it is a destination for the "Barbados" end of the market. They have different expectations of the airline carrying them.

[Edited 2011-09-06 21:22:05]
 
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mariner
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RE: Strategic Al. Becomes Air Australia

Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:13 am

Quoting qf002 (Reply 33):
Sounds like a pretty weak excuse on Mr James' part -- it's really not that difficult to work around the curfew, and the airport is not subject to heavy slot restrictions -- there are still plenty of slots available at most times of the day (except maybe the early morning rush). I think he's just trying to justify a fear of going head to head with the competition, because he knows that they will be the one to lose.

A "fear" of going head to head? I think it is extraordinarily sensible not to go head to head.

I don't think "fear" comes into it - I think rationality does. Australia isn't just Sydney and the bush.

mariner

[Edited 2011-09-06 21:15:02]
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IndianicWorld
Posts: 3415
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RE: Strategic Al. Becomes Air Australia

Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:22 am

Quoting eaglefarm4 (Reply 29):
With the BNE-MEL flights which will be 4-5 daily he is linking both his international ports with connecting flights .So if there is no MEL-HNL flight that day but there is one from BNE, then they can fly one stop from MEL via BNE.As he expands his international routes this will give the opportunity for pax to visit both cities and enter via one and depart via the other.Perhaps later ADL could be added to the connections.

Still think its overly ambitious, but they can make changes when required.

One thing to consider is that the HNL market will be a mainly outbound market from Australia. It will likely only have a fairly small inbound tourism segment. Given VC's lack of connections in HNL, that will be even more of the case,

An ADL connection would be interesting.
 
DLNZ
Posts: 63
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RE: Strategic Al. Becomes Air Australia

Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:22 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 35):
I think it is extraordinarily sensible not to go head to head

   Agree, particularly in SYD which isn't even working for QF international.

I think we quickly forget how different the market conditions (read: AUD/USD rates) were when JQ tried MEL-HNL to what they are today.

Quoting mariner (Reply 35):
Australia isn't just Sydney or the bush.

The sooner we accept this, the better. It's good to see a carrier like Air Australia seek out secondary city pairs rather than join the battle for scraps in SYD.
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: Strategic Al. Becomes Air Australia

Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:29 am

Quoting qf002 (Reply 33):
Sounds like a pretty weak excuse on Mr James' part -- it's really not that difficult to work around the curfew, and the airport is not subject to heavy slot restrictions -- there are still plenty of slots available at most times of the day (except maybe the early morning rush). I think he's just trying to justify a fear of going head to head with the competition, because he knows that they will be the one to lose.

A weak excuse? Interesting take on things.

Staying out of SYD is likely a very smart thing to do. Its already an ultra competitive market, and a new carrier will likely take time to gain a foothold there. That is a costly process.

As for the curfew, it is less than ideal, especially for a carrier with only a few planes, to have to operate around such a tight ooperational limitation. The SYD curfew is something that has put off carriers before, and will likely be an issue for others in the future also.

Maybe its time you looked at things alittle broader, not just thinking things are an 'excuse'.

Quoting dlnz (Reply 37):
The sooner we accept this, the better. It's good to see a carrier like Air Australia seek out secondary city pairs rather than join the battle for scraps in SYD.

True. SYD is a highly desired market by many, but there many other opportunities out there to explore.
 
rampart
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RE: Strategic Al. Becomes Air Australia

Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:42 am

Quoting qf002 (Reply 33):
But of those, how many already had a national carrier in their home nation? None - they were all formed as national carriers by their governments, with strong backing and a much, much, much less competitive market to enter into.

I see your point. I was answering the charge that an airline named for its home country "will never get business beyond their home market". Passengers don't usually realize who owns the airline, but the national names of my examples haven't hindered their popularity, and I doubt that has anything to do with government funding. Cathay Pacific was privately financed, BTW, not started by the Hong Kong (British) government. Singapore Airlines' roots (as the original Malayan Airways) was also privately initiated, not government.

I wouldn't call Emirates or Singapore "much much less competitive". Emirates was audacious enough to initiate in the midst of Saudia, Gulf Air, and Kuwait Airways -- and succeed in overtaking them -- and since then also competes with Qatar, Etihad, and Jazeera and others. Singapore was immediately competing with MAS, as well as nearby Garuda. By definition, Singapore had nothing but competition since they had no domestic flights to themselves. Same can be said for Cathay and Emirates.

Anyhow, there a probably other examples.

Those who say "never" are sometimes right, but sometimes completely wrong.
 
Lufthansa
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RE: Strategic Al. Becomes Air Australia

Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:11 am

Quoting rampart (Reply 31):
Airliners.net, where one would assume to see support for new ventures. Looks like the same negativity seen in the US also applies to Australia. I can only guess that the highly critical POV comes from investors who disagree with where their money is going? Otherwise, why care so much?

Rampart, history is littered with poorly thought out business plans for new airlines. The industry suffers some of the lowest margins of any out there, and as with all low margin businesses, there is far far less room for error. So far in Australia, since deregulation 4 startup airlines have attempted regular scheuled service. (mainline sized jets) Those are the ones that actually got their aircraft into the air. In addition, several smaller carriers attempted a few odd regional routes with things like fokkers but have morphed into charter carriers for the flyin flyout work to the mining industry. Of those four carriers, only one, Virgin, Succeeded. These are cold hard facts.

Now I am all for entreprenurialism. But the reality is this is an industry with very high fixed costs, that are very difficult
to get around. You can't just build your own Low Coast airport in the middle of somebody's farm and build you're own railway to link it up. Or decide you're not gonna maintain your engines and till they fall to bits (plenty of taxi companies do that with their transmisions for example). So the stakes are high. Any well run company should want constructive critisism, ideally coming from within. this gives the company the opportunity to see it's weaknesses and do whatever it can to address them before their competition does, possibly to their detriment. The same process is also a way to reconsider things and discover new opportunites. it is NOT simply being negative.

What I am hearing, is they want to avoid Sydney, the biggest inbound tourist market because of the risk, (some merit in that arguement for sales ex-australia) and they want to persue 'new' opportunities. Well to me, that says they need to bring something different to the market. Hence why I identified some other opportunities. Because what they are proposing is basically another Jetstar, just without the backing of Jetstar. Right now, if they can expand into markets that are underserved, it may work, because right now jetstar has a shortage of widebody aircraft. They would need to quickly establish a presence and then expand before JQ gets a chance to enter the market. But lets not forget JQ has a shitload of 787s coming its way in the very near future. unless VC is firmly ingrained in the market by this point, they could cause a lot of trouble, because if they stay at their current size or only marginally larger, it wouldn't take much for JQ to dump capacity on its routes until it goes bust. This isn't QF it will be competing with, with it's higher cost base. It is JQ...which may, due to scales of economy, have a lower cost base than VC. It certainly will get better access to things like leasing rates and prices from Boeing, as well as bigger bulk fuel discounts at Qantas hubs. If it were QF mainline we were talking here...i'd say they can survive on their lower cost base... but it won't be. And that is the very risk I'm attempting to point out here. I don't think it's being negative. I think it's being realistic. Unless they have flight attendents working on $30K a year and pilots on $70 or $80K, I can't see them having a lower cost base than JQ.
 
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mariner
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RE: Strategic Al. Becomes Air Australia

Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:48 am

Quoting rampart (Reply 31):
Airliners.net, where one would assume to see support for new ventures. Looks like the same negativity seen in the US also applies to Australia. I can only guess that the highly critical POV comes from investors who disagree with where their money is going? Otherwise, why care so much?

A lot of it is his own money - he is the co-owner. I'm not sure they have any other shareholders yet.

There was a not dissimilar circumstance about ten years ago when an entrepreneur bought a tiny, failing airline with much of his own money and moved its (equally tiny) base of operations from Fresno to Las Vegas.

A.net was unforgiving (and I raised several eyebrows), with the consensus being that Southwest and (then) America West would stomp all over the gnat. The model cannot work, a.net cried, especially when they found out that the model was.

But the entrepreneur had tricks up his sleeve - perhaps because it was his own money and his own vision. He did something different, which isn't easy in the airline world.

In 2001 it served two destinations from LAS and now has over fifty, and with several other hubs. It is a consistently profitable airline (and the darling of analysts) with the second highest share price of all airlines on the US stock market.

There are many more instances of failed airline experiments, the overwhelming majority perhaps, and Air Australia isn't doing anything as radical as Allegiant did. But I'd be wary of betting against him - I've learned not to stand between a determined man and his dreams.

And if it all does go down the dunny - it's his money.

mariner
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