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captainstefan
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RE: YAK-42 Crash On Take Off In Russia 36 Dead

Thu Sep 08, 2011 4:49 am

Update: According to an animation on a Russian site (I don't speak Russian so I don't know how reputable this is), it took off and struck a radio tower after being in the air for a good bit: http://www.sovsport.ru/news/text-item/479438
Long Live the Tulip!
 
tu204
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RE: YAK-42 Crash On Take Off In Russia 36 Dead

Thu Sep 08, 2011 4:50 am

Quoting Sevensixtyseven (Reply 99):
I hope and pray that the two men who survived will pull through and live.

Good point.
Lets all for a second put the discussing and arguing aside and pray for the two survivors.
From different reports, they both have severe burns and Alexander Galimov (passenger, Left Winger for Lokomotiv) has over 50% burns to his body. Lets take a minute to pray or for those of us that don't at least hope for the recovery of the survivors.
...
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
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rikkus67
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RE: YAK-42 Crash On Take Off In Russia 36 Dead

Thu Sep 08, 2011 6:30 am

RIP from Canada, to all who perished, and hope for a full recovery of the survivors.
AC.WA.CP.DL.RW.CO.WG.WJ.WN.KI.FL.SK.ACL.UA.US.F9
 
odafz
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RE: YAK-42 Crash On Take Off In Russia 36 Dead

Thu Sep 08, 2011 6:31 am

another sad day in the aviation world. May they est in peace. My thoughts are to the relatives and friends may they find courage and solace to get over this tragedy
 
FlyingAY
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RE: YAK-42 Crash On Take Off In Russia 36 Dead

Thu Sep 08, 2011 7:08 am

Some media articles are reporting contaminated fuel as a possible cause (how would they know that already, is another question).

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20110908/166519463.html
 
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teme82
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RE: YAK-42 Crash On Take Off In Russia 36 Dead

Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:48 am

Quoting flyingAY (Reply 104):
Some media articles are reporting contaminated fuel as a possible cause (how would they know that already, is another question).

Just speculating things in here... But there might have been earlier issues in the airport with the fuel. Like water getting in to the storage tanks etc...

R.I.P. to all who lost their lives in this terrible accident. I'm praying that the two men that are in hospital will survive.
Flying high and low
 
ltbewr
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RE: YAK-42 Crash On Take Off In Russia 36 Dead

Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:23 am

Quoting teme82 (Reply 105):
Quoting flyingAY (Reply 104):Some media articles are reporting contaminated fuel as a possible cause (how would they know that already, is another question).
Just speculating things in here... But there might have been earlier issues in the airport with the fuel. Like water getting in to the storage tanks etc...

If I am correct, there are jet aircraft fuel shortages in parts of Russia due to limited refining capacity and the shifting of production to heating fuel for sufficient supplies for the upcoming winter season needs. That could mean the airport could be 'scarping the bottom of the tank' and dispensed contaminated fuel into this a/c.

Obviously we still need an investigation to be done, that will take some time, but I do hope some preliminary information will be available soon. That this crash killed basically all of a top competitive ice hockey team, with members known and have played in Russia, Europe, USA and Canada as well as in the Olympics and other major international events, give additional layer of public attention and pain about it.
 
Cassi
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RE: YAK-42 Crash On Take Off In Russia 36 Dead

Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:03 am

The mother of one of the players (Sergei Ostapchuk) died of heart attack upon hearing the news of her son's death.
R.I.P.
 
zrb2
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RE: YAK-42 Crash On Take Off In Russia 36 Dead

Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:06 pm

Sounds like the pilot should have aborted the takeoff well before he got to the end of the runway. This gives credence to the the rumors that the plane was overloaded and too heavy.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
According to a veteran air traffic controller at the facility, the plane appeared unable to gain its required takeoff speed on the runway and travelled several metres into the grass beyond before getting airborne, Russia’s LifeNews.ru reported.

“A second later it leaned onto its left side and crashed,” Ariy Novik said.

It was about 10 metres above the ground at the point of impact, Novik told the news agency. He said everyone in the air-traffic control room saw the last seconds of the catastrophe.


According to Vladimir Gerasimov, an expert with the country’s Professional Union of Civil Aviation Pilots, the plane likely made at least two lurching attempts to gain the sky along the airfield’s three kilometre runway, only taking off after hitting the grass at the strip’s end. The 36-metre long plane typically needs only a kilometre to get airborne.

Gerasimov, who has helped conduct more than 100 crash investigations, told the Star that pilot error was likely involved.

“It seems there was a mistake in the (pilot’s) judgment — because when you have such difficulties taking off you are not supposed to fly,” Gerasimov said.

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/ar...h-claims-khl-club-the-team-is-gone
 
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RayChuang
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RE: YAK-42 Crash On Take Off In Russia 36 Dead

Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:20 pm

I really have to ask these (and I must qualify these are speculative) questions:

1. How do pilots feel about flying the Yak-42? Is it a plane that is not well-liked due to certain deficiencies in its flying characteristics?

2. Was the practice of using all of the runway to get the plane off the ground--a practice with Russian aircraft I've seen several times on YouTube--a potential contributor to this crash?

3. Did contaminated fuel or other engine problems caused the plane to lose power during the takeoff run, and the pilot tried to takeoff even though it would have been safer to abort the takeoff anyway?

We'll likely find out once the black boxes are retrieved from the remains of the plane.
 
GQfluffy
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RE: YAK-42 Crash On Take Off In Russia 36 Dead

Thu Sep 08, 2011 3:23 pm

Quoting silentbob (Reply 93):
Wings replaced their old DC9, it will be ready by the time the season starts.

How old is Red Bird II, especially compared to Red Bird III? http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/N682RW.html

Red Bird II was built in 1977.

http://www.planesregister.com/aircraft/md80-48006.htm

Red Bird III was built in April 3rd, 1981.

http://video.redwings.nhl.com/videocenter/console?catid=0&id=121800

So we aren't exactly talking new replacements here, but I bet Illitch got it rather cheap, then sunk a few million into it. Hey, at least it'll do non-stops cross-country now.
This isn't where I parked my car...
 
BAC111
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RE: YAK-42 Crash On Take Off In Russia 36 Dead

Thu Sep 08, 2011 6:08 pm

First I've heard of Redbird III. Do we know if the Tigers will also be using this aircraft next season?
 
bonusonus
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RE: YAK-42 Crash On Take Off In Russia 36 Dead

Thu Sep 08, 2011 6:49 pm

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 109):
2. Was the practice of using all of the runway to get the plane off the ground--a practice with Russian aircraft I've seen several times on YouTube--a potential contributor to this crash?

Yes, I thought about this too. Reminds me a lot of that Vodka Burner (I think it was Il-76?) video from Australia. Makes for some crazy videos but seems like a very unsafe practice. What happens if there is an engine failure just before v1? There is zero room for error.
 
Viper911
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RE: YAK-42 Crash On Take Off In Russia 36 Dead

Thu Sep 08, 2011 9:39 pm

On today evening news, one of the biggest channels in Russia (NTV) they played an exclusive video allegedly filmed by the camera located on that radio mast that was struck by the aircraft, camera was facing towards the runway.

Full vid over here:
http://www.ntv.ru/novosti/238742/

Viper911.
 
prebennorholm
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RE: YAK-42 Crash On Take Off In Russia 36 Dead

Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:36 pm

Quoting RIXrat (Reply 98):
I don't know how credible this report is, but one witness to the accident told Russian tv that he had heard two distinct "bangs" from the aircraft before it went down.

The same thing was reported in the press here in Denmark. It might indiate compressor stall on two of the three engines.

It is of course pure speculation. But it seems to fit the circumstances.

What else but a compressor stall can make a loud bank on an airliner? And with two compressor stalls after V1 he hasn't got a chance.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
F9Animal
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RE: YAK-42 Crash On Take Off In Russia 36 Dead

Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:48 pm

Quoting Viper911 (Reply 113):
On today evening news, one of the biggest channels in Russia (NTV) they played an exclusive video allegedly filmed by the camera located on that radio mast that was struck by the aircraft, camera was facing towards the runway.

Full vid over here:
http://www.ntv.ru/novosti/238742/

Viper911.

The video looks fake. It almost looks like a flight simulator view.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
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teme82
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RE: YAK-42 Crash On Take Off In Russia 36 Dead

Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:43 am

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 115):
The video looks fake. It almost looks like a flight simulator view.

Yeah it does. But still it looks the video has the feel and looks of normal CCTV video. And it ends at the impact of the plane.
Flying high and low
 
BrouAviation
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RE: YAK-42 Crash On Take Off In Russia 36 Dead

Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:59 am

Quoting Fabo (Reply 40):
Don't even bother, it is hardly worth it.

Your president seems to think otherwise, I'm afraid.

Quoting DBQ (Reply 44):

You make a decent point. We scoff at the Russian craft, while the DC-10 is beloved.

Let alone the MD-11, one of the deadliest airliners flying today.

Quoting Lufthansa747 (Reply 50):
I'm sure the Yak-42 is a perfectly fine aircraft if properly maintained.

AND properly operated. Weight & Balance, etc.

Quoting remcor (Reply 81):
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that FAA and JAA rules mandate that an aircraft must have enough engine power such that if an engine failure occurs after the decision point speed it still can take off successfully (I may have got the details a bit off here). But if so, this seems like a distinction from the specifications that the Yak-42 was designed to.

Correct, 2.4 degrees climb path should be maintained after engine failure if I remember correctly.

Quoting remcor (Reply 81):
"A source at the Civil Aviation Ministry said that the three-engine Yakovlev 42 jet can fly and even land on two, but it can’t lift off with one engine shutting off."

If that is true that is one seriously flawed design.

Quoting flyingAY (Reply 104):
(how would they know that already, is another question).

Other aircraft also suffering issues?

Quoting Viper911 (Reply 113):
On today evening news, one of the biggest channels in Russia (NTV) they played an exclusive video allegedly filmed by the camera located on that radio mast that was struck by the aircraft, camera was facing towards the runway.

That is horrifying footage..

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 114):
The same thing was reported in the press here in Denmark. It might indiate compressor stall on two of the three engines.

Why on two out of three? A compressor stall normally gives more than one 'bang' on the same engine, so it might be only one engine suffering. And a compressor stall nowadays most of the times is caused by birds or other FOD..

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 114):

What else but a compressor stall can make a loud bank on an airliner? And with two compressor stalls after V1 he hasn't got a chance.

Tyre blow, Hot Section disintegration (QF32).

Quoting RIXrat (Reply 98):
He also said that it took about 30 minutes for fire and rescue to arrive.

Now that is something Medvedev should be worried about, that is insane..
Never ask somebody if he's a pilot. If he is, he will let you know soon enough!
 
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pylon101
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RE: YAK-42 Crash On Take Off In Russia 36 Dead

Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:35 pm

First peliminary data retrieved showed that engines were working, HS was 8.7 degrees and flaps 20.
Appears to be a normal TO config.
Overweight theory should be checked. It's an aircraft for 120 pax. It was supposed to be loaded very lightly.
We also should remember that YAK-42D doesn't have reversers.
Hm...something is missing...
I am on EK 231/232. The rest is just jet lag.
 
tu204
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RE: YAK-42 Crash On Take Off In Russia 36 Dead

Sat Sep 10, 2011 2:03 am

Yes, but were they working at full power?
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
spacecadet
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RE: YAK-42 Crash On Take Off In Russia 36 Dead

Sat Sep 10, 2011 2:58 am

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 115):
The video looks fake. It almost looks like a flight simulator view.

Doesn't look fake to me. Ground is too detailed, for one thing. For another, the background changes ever so slightly (click on different points in the timeline and you'll see it), which wouldn't happen if it was a static simulator view. I freeze-framed on the frame just before the plane hits as well and I don't see anything about the plane that looks fake either.

I'm not saying I believe it 100%, but maybe 90%. If it's fake, I can almost 100% guarantee it's not from a simulator. It would have to be some other shot of a real-life takeoff that was processed to look like CCTV footage. But the plane is clearly not on any sort of runway, so you'd be talking about making a special effects shot too. It's possible, but I think it looks too real for an amateur, or at least anything but a really advanced amateur using pro-level software.

If it's real, then it doesn't look like it ever got airborne. And I don't know how tall this tower is, but it can't be *that* close to the end of the runway - I can't even see the end of the runway. It seems like this plane rolled a long time after leaving the end of the runway.
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
connies4ever
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RE: YAK-42 Crash On Take Off In Russia 36 Dead

Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:13 am

Quoting yooyoo (Reply 20):
I think former Leaf Korolev, now assitant coach, was on the flight?
Quoting canadianpylon (Reply 47):
You mean former Winnipeg Jet Igor Korolev player, right? He was an assistant Coach, so it would be assumed.

Yes, Igor Korolev was ass't coach of the team. Former Blues (I think), Jets, Coyote, and Leaf. Lived in Toronto in the off-season, wife, 2 daughters. Very sad.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
airbalticfan
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RE: YAK-42 Crash On Take Off In Russia 36 Dead

Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:50 pm

I still can't wrap my mind around of what happened to this ill fated flight.....
By no means I am an expert nor I know if this can happen, but based on news available, YAK-42 used all 3000m plus about 400m in grass before it lifted off....Question, why the pilots never aborted the T/O ? Could it be that the Thrust levers were jammed and they simply could not abort the T/O ?
I just can't explain this tragedy!
 
spacecadet
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RE: YAK-42 Crash On Take Off In Russia 36 Dead

Sat Sep 10, 2011 2:31 pm

Quoting airbalticfan (Reply 122):
Could it be that the Thrust levers were jammed and they simply could not abort the T/O ?
I just can't explain this tragedy!

It is quite a mystery at the moment. I've never heard of a case of jammed thrust levers on takeoff, though. The only cases I can recall of jammed thrust levers were due to serious engine damage.

Something must have happened between V1 and VR that led them to be unable to reach rotation speed. The only things that make sense at this point seem to be fuel contamination or an engine fault in more than one engine (which could also point to fuel contamination).

If that security footage is real, the flaps were down.
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
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pylon101
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RE: YAK-42 Crash On Take Off In Russia 36 Dead

Sat Sep 10, 2011 2:57 pm

MAK conformed today that fuel was standard.
There was Economic Forum there with dozens of biz-jets.
And president Medvedev's IL-96-300 was expected.
I believed they checked fuel quality for 10 times under the circumstances.
I am on EK 231/232. The rest is just jet lag.
 
airbalticfan
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RE: YAK-42 Crash On Take Off In Russia 36 Dead

Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:09 pm

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 123):
Something must have happened between V1 and VR that led them to be unable to reach rotation speed



I guess so, but come on 3000m = around 9000ft runway, by that time pilot's should understand that the airplane is not capable of flying, plus like I said, they rolled about 400yard in a grass overunning the runway before they sort of lifted off!!!!!
This is insane!!!!! What the hell was going on? They had plenty of time to abort the T/O, V1 and Vr speeds are not that far away from each other, if the plane has no thrust ABORT the darn T/O!!!!!!
I am so emotional about this crash, I lost a person I knew well on this doomed flight, I just try to find a closure to this disaster!

[Edited 2011-09-10 12:09:53]
 
spacecadet
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RE: YAK-42 Crash On Take Off In Russia 36 Dead

Sat Sep 10, 2011 8:26 pm

Quoting airbalticfan (Reply 125):
They had plenty of time to abort the T/O, V1 and Vr speeds are not that far away from each other, if the plane has no thrust ABORT the darn T/O!!!!!!

Depends on the plane, the weight, the takeoff config and the conditions. I don't know what V1 and VR speeds would have been for this flight.

If they had passed V1 before they realized they had a problem, then it doesn't matter how much runway they had left, V1 is decision speed. There's no longer enough runway to stop safely. There have been accidents in the past caused by pilots attempting to abort after V1, when they probably would have taken off safely if they'd just continued on... that's what V1 is for.

I suppose there could also have been a problem reaching V2, combined with an engine out, after they reached VR. Though it does seem like they rotated late as well, but maybe they were trying to delay rotation until reaching a safe climb speed, knowing they had an engine problem.
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
airbalticfan
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RE: YAK-42 Crash On Take Off In Russia 36 Dead

Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:57 pm

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 126):
I suppose there could also have been a problem reaching V2, combined with an engine out, after they reached VR. Though it does seem like they rotated late as well, but maybe they were trying to delay rotation until reaching a safe climb speed, knowing they had an engine problem.

Still make no sense to continue 400m on a ground way beyond runway and only then lift off,.......
I understand everything about the V1 speeds Vr and V2,but really, if you do not get to V1 as normally, do you still keep rolling till the end of the runway and in a grass and only then take off?????? That is the question!
I speak Russian and I listened interview with a tower controller who stated that "the problems started on a take off roll " as the aircraft was not gaining the speed but rolling like a car......
Knowing the Russia ( no offense to our fellow Russian airliner.net members ) and the history of this country and how it has been run and so many covered up stories, make me believe that we will never find out the truth about this tragedy!
 
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pylon101
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RE: YAK-42 Crash On Take Off In Russia 36 Dead

Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:54 pm

No offense taken.
I think that MAK report will be full and detailed.
It's a high-profile case.
I am on EK 231/232. The rest is just jet lag.
 
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AirlineCritic
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RE: YAK-42 Crash On Take Off In Russia 36 Dead

Sun Sep 11, 2011 8:37 pm

Quoting Viper911 (Reply 113):

On today evening news, one of the biggest channels in Russia (NTV) they played an exclusive video allegedly filmed by the camera located on that radio mast that was struck by the aircraft, camera was facing towards the runway.
Quoting teme82 (Reply 116):
But still it looks the video has the feel and looks of normal CCTV video. And it ends at the impact of the plane.

Does the YAK have five lights when viewed from front? There are five lights on the video. Some pictures do seem have five lights:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Moritz Riemer - Aviationportraits



Landing gear looked funny at first, but looking at some other pictures of the YAK-42, I think it could be YAK-42. See for instance:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Alexander Nikolaev - RuSpotters Team



Flaps are down, but they look like the two part flaps of a YAK-42:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Charles Falk



But I think the plane's approach and impact looks artificial, somehow. In the ending there a few frames where the only parts of the picture are available. Not sure if that is a real effect. But I'm mostly wondering how the plane just plows on in straight line, seemingly not even attempting to lift itself. And I think the ending should look different.

I'm undecided.
 
RubberJungle
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RE: YAK-42 Crash On Take Off In Russia 36 Dead

Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:35 am

Russian media reporting that the only surviving member of the hockey team has succumbed to his injuries in hospital.
 
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Plainplane
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RE: YAK-42 Crash On Take Off In Russia 36 Dead

Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:46 pm

Quoting RubberJungle (Reply 130):
Russian media reporting that the only surviving member of the hockey team has succumbed to his injuries in hospital.

CNN confirms: http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/europe/09/12/russia.plane.crash/index.html
 
RubberJungle
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RE: YAK-42 Crash On Take Off In Russia 36 Dead

Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:55 pm

Preliminary investigation of flight recorders reveals no obvious clues:

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...42-test-as-crash-cause-proves.html
 
airbalticfan
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RE: YAK-42 Crash On Take Off In Russia 36 Dead

Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:41 pm

More and more I start to believe rumors, that the crew was instructed to takeoff from half field and simply run out of usable runway.
At the same time Yaroslavl had some kind of "high politician" conference and the aircraft was not allowed to use full length of runway. ( security reasons )
If the rumors are correct, then it all make a perfect sense now....., it make a sense that the pilot never tried to abort the takeoff and if not for that beacon tower, probably all would went relatively decent.

If true, then this will be prime example that all politician ambitions are ranked way higher than citizen lives!
 
iberiadc852
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RE: YAK-42 Crash On Take Off In Russia 36 Dead

Tue Sep 13, 2011 7:22 pm

Quoting airbalticfan (Reply 133):
More and more I start to believe rumors, that the crew was instructed to takeoff from half field and simply run out of usable runway.
At the same time Yaroslavl had some kind of "high politician" conference and the aircraft was not allowed to use full length of runway. ( security reasons )
If the rumors are correct, then it all make a perfect sense now....., it make a sense that the pilot never tried to abort the takeoff and if not for that beacon tower, probably all would went relatively decent.

Obviously, I don't know if that's the true cause or not.

But contrary to what is normally said in this kind of events, if it were, it would be a good example of how a simple explanation is normally more feasible than those involving multiple coincidences.
variety is the spice of life; that's what made the "old times" so good
 
spacecadet
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RE: YAK-42 Crash On Take Off In Russia 36 Dead

Tue Sep 13, 2011 7:56 pm

Quoting iberiadc852 (Reply 134):
But contrary to what is normally said in this kind of events, if it were, it would be a good example of how a simple explanation is normally more feasible than those involving multiple coincidences.

Except that it's not a simple explanation. Because takeoffs are basically an exact science; the pilots would know how much runway was required, pretty much to the foot. And this plane didn't even seem to rotate until 400 meters beyond the end of the runway. No pilot is going to start a takeoff roll knowing full well that he will be rotating beyond the end of the runway.

So the available runway length may have something to do with the accident, but I can't see how it could be the primary cause. Maybe that combined with something else, but then we're back to your "multiple coincidences" again. Honestly, though, that is what causes most plane crashes - multiple things usually have to go wrong.
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
iberiadc852
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RE: YAK-42 Crash On Take Off In Russia 36 Dead

Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:27 pm

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 135):

Yes, we can go back to multiple coincidences, what I said was a too simple way to put it. But these coincidences are much easier to digest after the simplified scenario.

The question is that trying to explain a takeoff not aborted consuming a lot of extra runway that ends in an accident, arises so many coincidences needed that it should make to look elsewhere.

In other words, in my opinion, the really extraordinary coincidence here would be the shortening of the usable runway not being a very important factor in this accident.
variety is the spice of life; that's what made the "old times" so good
 
MCOflyer
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RE: YAK-42 Crash On Take Off In Russia 36 Dead

Tue Sep 13, 2011 10:09 pm

This is a very sad and an unfortunate event. Many of these fine individuals had long lives ahead of them. They will all be missed by their loved ones and fans. May those who died RIP.

KH
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
Cassi
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RE: YAK-42 Crash On Take Off In Russia 36 Dead

Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:43 am

http://rt.com/news/experience-crew-crashed-plane-463/

Apparently the captain didn't feel well and asked the co-pilot to handle the takeoff. The co-pilot was very unexperienced and had just finished the training for the type.

It is more and more likely that the aircraft had no technical problems and the crash is another example of pure pilot error.
 
mila
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RE: YAK-42 Crash On Take Off In Russia 36 Dead

Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:55 am

Quoting Cassi (Reply 138):
Quoting Cassi (Reply 138):
http://rt.com/news/experience-crew-crashed-plane-463/

Apparently the captain didn't feel well and asked the co-pilot to handle the takeoff. The co-pilot was very unexperienced and had just finished the training for the type.

It is more and more likely that the aircraft had no technical problems and the crash is another example of pure pilot error.

In Swedish news it is reported that they did forget to release the handbrake at the start and released it during takeoff!

Is that possible, I mean can you start a takeoff with the handbrake asserted?

/m
 
MEA-707
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RE: YAK-42 Crash On Take Off In Russia 36 Dead

Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:45 am

I noticed on my Saravia Yak-42 flights a week before the crash that the take off procedure is to increase engine power first when at hold at the start of the runway and then release the breaks, just like propliners often do their take off. Maybe the plane started to move already and the pilot forgot to release it, thinking his collegue released it.
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Starlionblue
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RE: YAK-42 Crash On Take Off In Russia 36 Dead

Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:45 pm

Quoting Cassi (Reply 138):

Apparently the captain didn't feel well and asked the co-pilot to handle the takeoff. The co-pilot was very unexperienced and had just finished the training for the type.

Right there is a problem. The regs pretty much anywhere would require the flight to be canceled if one pilot were feeling sick.

Aftonbladet in Sweden reports the airbrakes where extended. This would explain why the aircraft couldn't gain speed and altitude.

Quoting mila (Reply 139):
In Swedish news it is reported that they did forget to release the handbrake at the start and released it during takeoff!

This has been corrected to "airbrakes". As mentioned in the revised text, aircraft don't have a "handbrake". They have a parking brake. However with the parking brake on there is no way the wheels would roll..

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 140):
Maybe the plane started to move already and the pilot forgot to release it, thinking his collegue released it.

If the parking brake is on, the wheels will not roll. In the case you describe, the pilot flying is holding the brakes with his toes. Simply releasing pressure will release the brakes.
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CamiloA380
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RE: YAK-42 Crash On Take Off In Russia 36 Dead

Wed Sep 14, 2011 3:55 pm

Quoting Cassi (Reply 138):
Apparently the captain didn't feel well and asked the co-pilot to handle the takeoff. The co-pilot was very inexperienced and had just finished the training for the type.

I really don't think that could lead to a crash, the weather was "normal" for that place, if it was the F/O who did the take off, it should have just been a normal take off just like he was trained to do. Otherwise we should put their training in question.

Quoting mila (Reply 139):
In Swedish news it is reported that they did forget to release the handbrake at the start and released it during takeoff!
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 141):
Aftonbladet

Not a very reliable source  . I guess if the air-brakes were deployed prior to take off, the ATC who was watching the take off, would have noticed it, but not only that it seems that the flight controls were operating just as normal.
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ferengi80
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RE: YAK-42 Crash On Take Off In Russia 36 Dead

Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:39 pm

As a massive Ice Hockey fan, this is a horrendous tragedy. My thoughts and prayers go out to all involved, to the family, friends of all those who have died, to all the fans of Lokomotiv Yaroslavl. This is the most tragic event to ever occur in Ice Hockey. The world has lost a tremendous amount of sporting talent.

  
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moriarty
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RE: YAK-42 Crash On Take Off In Russia 36 Dead

Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:59 am

Quoting CamiloA380 (Reply 142):
Aftonbladet in Sweden reports the airbrakes where extended. This would explain why the aircraft couldn't gain speed and altitude.

I wouldn't count Aftonbladet as a credible source of information. Any more words on that theory, elsewhere?

If it's true it seems like a horrible rookie mistake to me.
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pylon101
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RE: YAK-42 Crash On Take Off In Russia 36 Dead

Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:11 am

Investigation authorities turned down tabloid rumors about "forgotten park brakes".
However, a possibility of "remaining pressure" in the brake system is being considered.
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mila
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RE: YAK-42 Crash On Take Off In Russia 36 Dead

Fri Sep 16, 2011 4:04 pm

Now they have simulated the takeoff and played back the voicerecorder.
It seams like they first of all used only half the runway, maybe they planned for the whole runway but used half?

http://www.aftonbladet.se/sportblade...rnationellt/khl/article13634849.ab

/mila
 
spacecadet
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RE: YAK-42 Crash On Take Off In Russia 36 Dead

Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:13 am

Quoting mila (Reply 146):
It seams like they first of all used only half the runway, maybe they planned for the whole runway but used half?

Stranger things have happened. As I said earlier, the available runway length could be a factor but I can't see how it could be the cause... pilot error, though, is always a possibility.
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airbalticfan
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RE: YAK-42 Crash On Take Off In Russia 36 Dead

Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:45 pm

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 147):
pilot error, though, is always a possibility.



From the latest rumors and of course it is unofficial:
Second pilot ( seems like it would be First Officer here in USA ) "pressed" on a brakes as they were past the decision point but still not going fast enough, then they re- adjusted the stabilizer for a T/O ( seems like they forgot to do that before the T/O roll ), but then for unknown reason they decided to continue T/O.However the pressure from applied brakes never got released, which caused them to use all available runway and more...before liftoff....however they were too close to the beacon tower and they struck it with the right wing and down they went.......

Man, who knows...its Russia, its seems so weird that the cause " official one" is still not known!!!

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