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Richie72
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9/11 Live ATC Audio Released On Sky News

Thu Sep 08, 2011 5:11 pm

Just watching Sky News and they are broadcasting right now live audio from ATC starting at 08h13 est on that tragic day ....apparently hours of audio never heard before have been released .

Who has released this and where can the entire audio be heard? And why is it being released now?

My thoughts go out to all those affected by this event that happened almost exactly 10 years ago to this day..
 
YYZRWY23
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RE: 9/11 Live ATC Audio Released On Sky News

Thu Sep 08, 2011 5:25 pm

If you don't stand behind our troops, feel free to stand in front of them.
 
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Flying Belgian
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RE: 9/11 Live ATC Audio Released On Sky News

Thu Sep 08, 2011 6:59 pm

I'm listening to them right now.

Incredible.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...-TNEL-090811-NYT-NA&WT.mc_ev=click

[Edited 2011-09-08 12:00:55]
Life is great at 41.000 feet...
 
atrude777
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RE: 9/11 Live ATC Audio Released On Sky News

Thu Sep 08, 2011 7:15 pm

Goosebumps and Tears well up inside me as I listen to this knowing the outcome of everything.

As hard as it is to listen to it, it is also important to know and realize what happened through the transcripts. I am glad we get to listen to them and get an idea of what happened in the air on that horrible day.
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
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AirlineCritic
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RE: 9/11 Live ATC Audio Released On Sky News

Thu Sep 08, 2011 9:38 pm

Chilling. Very chilling.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: 9/11 Live ATC Audio Released On Sky News

Fri Sep 09, 2011 3:43 am

Listening to the UA93 hijacking is pure awful. Ruined my night.
 
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EK413
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RE: 9/11 Live ATC Audio Released On Sky News

Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:28 am

This is awful...
Why do we need to be reminded of these terrible events  
R.I.P those which lost loved ones...

EK413
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
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Flying Belgian
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RE: 9/11 Live ATC Audio Released On Sky News

Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:47 am

It is indeed chilling. I listened the whole thing, it's quite unbelievable to notice how it unfolded.

It reminded me that at the exact time of the event the media reported much more than 4 planes being hijacked. Even 747s were reported to have been hijacked.

Also a tribute to the clear-sightedness and lucidity of the AA11 F/A talking to the AA call center of RDU.

May such events never happen again.

[Edited 2011-09-09 03:49:53]
Life is great at 41.000 feet...
 
RICARIZA
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RE: 9/11 Live ATC Audio Released On Sky News

Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:59 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 5):
Listening to the UA93 hijacking is pure awful. Ruined my night.

I agree.. I am so shocked!!
I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
 
shufflemoomin
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RE: 9/11 Live ATC Audio Released On Sky News

Fri Sep 09, 2011 3:10 pm

I didn't hear the audio but I read the full transcript linked above. All I got from that is that the whole situation was a clusterf**k from the start with no one having any idea what's going or what they're supposed to do. I don't think the situation could have stopped with clearly communication, but as you saw towards the end, it could have gotten way worse. You've got armed military aircraft up there and they don't know what's going on, they're not sure what they're supposed to be doing, what or who they're looking for and towards the end, even end up confused about whether they can shoot down civilian aircraft or not. I hope many organisations learned from that mess and that crap never goes down again. It makes it more frightening that the USA is suspecting more attacks in the coming days and we've just a got first hand look at how incompetent the people involved in 9/11 were, including the military. Let's hope they've got their s**t together if something goes down again.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: 9/11 Live ATC Audio Released On Sky News

Fri Sep 09, 2011 4:33 pm

Quoting shufflemoomin (Reply 9):
we've just a got first hand look at how incompetent the people involved in 9/11 were

I disagree. This was completely unprecedented. The plan was well staged and we were completely caught off guard. Obviously there were lessons to be learned, but I don't think any measures could have prepared us for this.
 
shufflemoomin
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RE: 9/11 Live ATC Audio Released On Sky News

Fri Sep 09, 2011 4:51 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 10):
I disagree. This was completely unprecedented. The plan was well staged and we were completely caught off guard. Obviously there were lessons to be learned, but I don't think any measures could have prepared us for this.

Did you check out the transcripts? I see no procedures in place or being followed. The flying of these aircraft into buildings was unprecedented. hi-jackings are not. No one knew who to call and they didn't know what to do. People were passing on factually incorrect information. People were misunderstanding information passed to them. There were even people there that were being called about something that they seemed completely unprepared for dealing with. Whatever way you split it, there seemed to be no procedures in place or being followed and no one knew what the hell was going on. That's incompetence. I expect either Air Traffic Control, the FAA or the military to have procedures in place for hi-jackings and it seemed no one did or if they did, no one knew how to follow them. I found that just as frightening as what the terrorists did on that day. The cherry on the fear cake was that we came close to shooting down other, likely innocent, civilian aircraft. When lives are at stake, uncertainly and misinformation can be fatal.
 
BWI5OH
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RE: 9/11 Live ATC Audio Released On Sky News

Fri Sep 09, 2011 5:04 pm

I can not believe it's been ten years already. God bless all of those who lost their lives that day. One strange thing about the recordings was the confusion concerning AA11. Boston and NY seemed pretty certain that it was involved with the fire at the WTC. However, Washington seemed to be intent on thinking that AA11 was heading for DC. Did Washington get AA11 and AA77 mixed up? Nothing at all was really mentioned about AA77 until another pilot stated a plane had hit the Pentagon. Maybe I missed something in the recordings.

May we all live knowing that those those who died did not die unforgotten.
"It's all fun and games until the cops show up"
 
rcair1
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RE: 9/11 Live ATC Audio Released On Sky News

Fri Sep 09, 2011 5:48 pm

Quoting EK413 (Reply 6):
Why do we need to be reminded of these terrible events

Lest we forget. As the old adage goes, those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. No matter your perspective on the events on 9/11 or since, they are important events and we should learn from them. To ignore or try to forget is not the wisest course.

Quoting shufflemoomin (Reply 9):
I didn't hear the audio but I read the full transcript linked above. All I got from that is that the whole situation was a
Quoting shufflemoomin (Reply 9):
don't think the situation could have stopped with clearly communication, but as you saw towards the end, it could have gotten way worse.

I'm sorry - I must respond. As an emergency responder (Fire fighter) and a leader in that role (Chief) with 25 years experience, I'm compelled to say this is uninformed.

Communications is one of, if not the most, important factor in dealing with an emergency - whether that is a 'normal' one like a fire or car crash, or a 'unprecedented' one like the terrorist attacks of 9/11. It is certainly correct to say communications breakdowns can and have led to poor outcomes. I have seen that personally. However, I don't think that most people, who have not been involved in such emergencies, have any level of understanding of the difficulty maintaining accurate, clear and correct communications is during the unfolding moments of an emergency. Again - even a "standard" emergency - much less one with the breadth and scope of 9/11.

I know - not think - but know, how difficult it can be to maintain a picture of an unfolding event and how much harder it becomes when multiple agencies must work together, because I've had to do it. Despite the best efforts of local agencies to work and train together, and we make huge efforts to do so, we still fail in this regard on occasion. That is with agencies who regularly meet and work together. Agencies that have the same goals and purposes in their foundations. People you know and have talked to.

Throw into the mix an unprecedented, almost unimaginable, and purposefully directed series of events designed to inflict maximum chaos and damage - and it becomes more much problematic. Emergency responders (less so, but even police) are used to dealing with events that are accidental, individual or 'natural disasters' and relatively random in nature. Not so much when the event is directed, planned and designed. This is true in most place, but more true in places where such events are relatively rare. That event can stretch the ability of trained organizations who plan on working together to remain coordinated and coherent.

Then you add the mix of agencies who do not work together regularly, and who have different organizational cultures and goals. Disperse that across many 100's or 1000's of miles and involved many groups in many places with many different levels of training and expertise - and the problem becomes almost insurmountable.

Given what happened that day, as an emergency responder who was NOT involved, I'm struck that many people and organizations responded with what I can only classify as heroic attempts to help and deal with something they had not imagined. Sometimes they failed. Most times they succeeded in dealing with their little part. The fact that they were confused and unsure is NOT an indication that they were incompetent or were stupid. They were out of their depth - as were most people. Yet they stepped up to the plate and did the right thing in the vast majority of cases. Was it pretty or orchestrated, no.

Where there errors in action/reaction on 9/11? Certainly - the fire fighters running into the twin towers did not anticipate they would collapse (I talked to some of them - those who survived - it did not occur to them). They had trouble communicating among themselves and certainly had little or no credible information from ATC (because ATC had little). And how often do you think ATC interacts with FCNY fire fighters on the streets of NYC? Not often- perhaps local airport authorities, but certainly not on the scope that happened that day.

Does that difficulty in understanding and communicating what was going on make their actions a "clusterf**k"?
I'm sorry. No.

ATC did a marvelous job - never had a ground stop been issued - can you imagine! The military - sure they were confused. Civilian airliners as missiles? Really? It is appropriate that they would be hesitant to respond - and they did the right thing.

As stated

Quoting shufflemoomin (Reply 9):
it could have gotten way worse.

The fact that it did not is an positive indication - not a negative one.

BTW - on 9/11 I was in the beautiful country of Denmark - and I must say that during this time the people of Denmark (and later Germany and the UK) were wonderful and so supportive of 2, rather lost feeling, Americans who were literally stumbling from place to place. I do apologize to the hotel where I took the phone off the wall and hardwired the lines to my computer modem so as to be able to dial in and get valid news (all we had was pictures on TV with Danish speaking over the english - and I don't speak Danish). I carefully remounted it.....
rcair1
 
rcair1
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RE: 9/11 Live ATC Audio Released On Sky News

Fri Sep 09, 2011 5:56 pm

Quoting shufflemoomin (Reply 11):
hi-jackings are not.


Prior to 9/11, hijackings were of the "take me here" type. The approach was to "follow the directions of the hijackers" till the plane was on the ground. De-escalate in the air, get the plane on the ground and negotiate. Even the hijackers knew and used that fact to mislead - note the transmissions that were heard (intended to be cabin announcements) were all of the form 'stay seated and quiet - we are returning to the airport - if you stay quiet you will be okay'. They (the hijackers) used this to misdirect the crews and passengers because they knew that is how the world responded to hijackings

The reactions of crew and authorities to hijackings were by design. The problem was the intent of the hijackings was fundamentally different.
rcair1
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: 9/11 Live ATC Audio Released On Sky News

Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:35 pm

Quoting shufflemoomin (Reply 11):
The flying of these aircraft into buildings was unprecedented. hi-jackings are not.

I really don't want to derail this thread, but rcair1 beat me to it, flying planes into buildings was not seen as a real threat. May have happened in a few cases, but not to an extent to take seriously. Just like IEDs in Afghanistan and Iraq, IEDs happened in the past, but weren't a big enough threat to have MRAPs developed until the deadliness of IEDs were known.

And I do see protocol being followed. We don't see all of the calls either. Protocol was extremely messy because never had a situation of this nature had to be dealt with. There were many unknowns. We learned a lot on 9/11 and if that happened toady, everything set in place would make it run a lot more efficiently. I do not know your job, but surely there are situations that go absolutely FUBAR that no one ever saw coming that, despite your training, get really messy. After that, an SOP is formed and if it ever happens again, it's dealt with effectively.

I don't see 9/11 as a failure of our system. The outcome was horrendous and we had lots of lessons learned. The time we fail is when a similar event occurs and we don't deal with it effectively. Maybe you can say that we did have similar events before, but that was before my time and that is for another thread.
 
Eagleboy
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RE: 9/11 Live ATC Audio Released On Sky News

Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:12 pm

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 14):
Prior to 9/11, hijackings were of the "take me here" type. The approach was to "follow the directions of the hijackers" till the plane was on the ground. ........They (the hijackers) used this to misdirect the crews and passengers because they knew that is how the world responded to hijackings

The reactions of crew and authorities to hijackings were by design. The problem was the intent of the hijackings was fundamentally different.

I agree. The authorities reacted as 'normal' to a hijacking. However this was not the hijacking that the aviation world had been trained to react to. Airline crews were trained to co-operate with and keep the hijacker's calm.
 
ghifty
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RE: 9/11 Live ATC Audio Released On Sky News

Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:40 pm

This is almost too much to handle.. To hear these flight crews speaking their last words really hits me hard.

Though it's a painful experience, I do have to say I'm glad these tapes have been released.. some strange form of semi-closure.
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shufflemoomin
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RE: 9/11 Live ATC Audio Released On Sky News

Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:15 pm

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 13):
Does that difficulty in understanding and communicating what was going on make their actions a "clusterf**k"?
I'm sorry. No.

I respect your feelings and opinions and I appreciate you taking the time to respond in such length. My opinion that the situation was a "clusterf**k" was based on the evidence that the whole thing was a mess and no one knew what was going on or what to do. It's inarguable that these situations arose, which in my opinion, warrants the description of it being a "clusterf**k". I'm not for one minute saying that any individual here didn't do what they thought was best, but clear communication could have made things a lot better. As for my comments that things could have gotten worse, it seems to me that it was only luck and timing that stopped those jets shooting down innocent aircraft. It certainly wasn't clear choice. In my mind and opinion, we were lucky not to suffer an even greater lose of life that day due to poor communication. I'm grateful it didn't get any worse than it already was.

Again, let's hope lessons have been learned and if any country was ever to suffer a tragedy on this level again, that we don't suffer the same problems.
 
rcair1
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RE: 9/11 Live ATC Audio Released On Sky News

Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:41 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 15):
derail this thread, but rcair1 beat me to it

Do you mean I beat you to derailing it?  
rcair1
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: 9/11 Live ATC Audio Released On Sky News

Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:02 pm

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 19):
Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 15):
derail this thread, but rcair1 beat me to it

Do you mean I beat you to derailing it?  

You have nice red righting on the top right of your posts... you do no wrong!

Quoting ghifty (Reply 17):

This is almost too much to handle.. To hear these flight crews speaking their last words really hits me hard.

I just watched a show on 9/11... a father was talking to his son on UA 175, the son saw the tower as they were turning and knew his and his wife and daughter's fate and could only say "Oh my God" a few times, the father heard a scream in the background, and then silence. He then looked on the TV and saw the 2nd plane hit. That was probably the worst I've heard in the 10 years of coverage...
 
rcair1
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RE: 9/11 Live ATC Audio Released On Sky News

Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:12 pm

Thanks for your thoughtful reply shufflemoomin

Quoting shufflemoomin (Reply 18):
As for my comments that things could have gotten worse, it seems to me that it was only luck and timing that stopped those jets shooting down innocent aircraft.

I would agree that, certainly there was luck involved (both good and bad) in specific outcomes. But in most cases I believe the actions of the aircrew, controllers and military, not luck, led to better outcomes (note, I did not say best). Aircraft crew responded to the ground stop by heading to the nearest airports (sometimes under direction, sometimes not). For Aircraft heading into 'closed' areas - like Washington DC, many did not get the information to turn around in a timely manner, but when intercepted by military aircraft, they responded appropriately to signals to turn around, descend and land. I do not know how "many" many is, and maybe nobody does. But I know it was a non-zero and not insignificant number because I've heard first hand accounts from military and civilian pilots who reported it.

I also agree with DeltaMD90 in that 'we' are better prepared today for an event of this type..... though being in the emergency response service, I know we are not as prepared as we should/could be. Much of the infrastructure investment in common communications has been driven by uninformed bureaucrats. I now have 2 radios in every engine in my department- and 2 radios strapped on my chest during the incident (if not 3). Those new radios are supposed to better inter agency cooperation. They do not - we almost never turn them on and the technology they use (800Mhz trunked) does not work in the physical environment we respond in. Like so much that is "top down", without the local knowledge, it is mis-directed. (BTW - in a recent tornado incident the new system overloaded and went down - and the only people talking were those of us who still had the 'old' stuff).

But I digress.

I'll close off my comments by saying that I, like many, will face this weekend with a very somber mood and some painful memories. I do pray that those impacted by 9/11 and other events find peace and comfort in the many memorials being held. Certainly - as a firefighter, I will find that in the many special events held in the fire service.
rcair1
 
rcair1
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RE: 9/11 Live ATC Audio Released On Sky News

Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:17 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 20):
You have nice red righting on the top right of your posts... you do no wrong!

That red does kind of stick out.... On the positive side, I 'think' a bit more about what I post than perhaps I used to...

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 20):
That was probably the worst I've heard in the 10 years of coverage...

Many of these events - like the one you describe - are haunting. They are not limited to 9/11. To this day I can hear the voice of a pilot I knew as he lifted his helicopter off for a final mission one day. I was listening on my fire radio to a fire I was not working - just listening as I drove home from work. 2 minutes later, he was down (vortex ring state).

I'm sure we all have those moments in our life.

Be well....
rcair1
 
ghifty
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RE: 9/11 Live ATC Audio Released On Sky News

Sat Sep 10, 2011 3:12 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 20):
I just watched a show on 9/11... a father was talking to his son on UA 175, the son saw the tower as they were turning and knew his and his wife and daughter's fate and could only say "Oh my God" a few times, the father heard a scream in the background, and then silence. He then looked on the TV and saw the 2nd plane hit. That was probably the worst I've heard in the 10 years of coverage...

My school had a 9/11 memorial. They played recordings of people who survived/related-to-victims.. very touching. One person in particular stood out, "I remember my sister calling me on September 10th, she was so excited.. because she finally had gotten a job. She told me it was in the Twin Towers." The audacity of my fellow High Schoolers was blood-boiling.. they were too "cool" to remember, or acknowledge. Pitiful.

What angers me even more is that I just tried to find the video you mentioned.. half the results link to conspiracies. HALF.
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Comments made here reflect only my personal opinions.

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