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timz
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Was This A Real Airplane? (pre-King Air Beech)

Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:43 pm

Did they actually build a flying Model 120 (or whatever this was) or was this some sort of mockup?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/4590230262
 
Flaps
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RE: Was This A Real Airplane? (pre-King Air Beech)

Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:47 pm

It bears a striking resemblance to the original Merlin.
 
tp1040
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RE: Was This A Real Airplane? (pre-King Air Beech)

Fri Sep 09, 2011 2:52 pm

Could be the model 87. A Queen Air with PT6s. According to wiki, the model 87 was a proof of concept and never went into production.
 
KELPkid
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RE: Was This A Real Airplane? (pre-King Air Beech)

Fri Sep 09, 2011 2:56 pm

Those nacelles look like they hold a very long engine, like a pair of Rolls-Royce Darts or Allison T-56's  
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
2H4
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RE: Was This A Real Airplane? (pre-King Air Beech)

Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:25 pm

Quoting Flaps (Reply 1):
It bears a striking resemblance to the original Merlin.

The original Merlin actually used a fair amount of Beechcraft parts.
Intentionally Left Blank
 
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rikkus67
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RE: Was This A Real Airplane? (pre-King Air Beech)

Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:41 pm

Sound like Ed Swearingen was associated with Beechcraft at one time, and then branched off on his own with the Merlin design. A quick comparions between the OP's attached pic, and a Merlin from the database, shows very similar but not exact lines. I wonder how closely the two compare in dimensions?


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srbmod
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RE: Was This A Real Airplane? (pre-King Air Beech)

Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:15 pm

Quoting tp1040 (Reply 2):
Could be the model 87. A Queen Air with PT6s. According to wiki, the model 87 was a proof of concept and never went into production.

I believe that's the answer, as looking through the database, the only King Airs that look anything like this are the Model 65-90A-1/2/3/4s that were based on the Model 87 and were built for the US Army (U-21 Ute). All other King Airs have the rounded windows.
 
desertjets
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RE: Was This A Real Airplane? (pre-King Air Beech)

Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:23 pm

For a second I almost thought it was a Duke, but it is WAAAY too big to be one. Especially as it was close in size, with a shorter wingspan, than the Queen Air.


Looking at the planes in the picture though I can surmise it is pretty early on in the 60s. The Musketeer would have been the newest plane at the time in 63-64. The teardrop windows on the model 35 Bonanza make it at least a 61, same thing with the smaller windows on the Debonair. The Twin Bonanza way in back puts it in the early 60s are well. So I want to say that whatever it is it is some sort of proof of concept, but the King Air was more or less a Queen Air with turboprops (at least I always thought so).

interesting shot nonetheless.
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Dalmd88
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RE: Was This A Real Airplane? (pre-King Air Beech)

Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:33 pm

Those are not PT6's. The exhaust is in the rear. I'll bet they were Garrett TPE-331's. The same powerplant found on the Merlin/Metro. Having worked on about 60 different Metros, that was the first airplane that came to my mind, but it is a little different.
 
timz
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RE: Was This A Real Airplane? (pre-King Air Beech)

Sat Sep 10, 2011 5:13 pm

Turns out the 120 was to be a 12000-lb MTOW aircraft, compared to the 90 that presumably replaced it with 9000 lb MTOW. You'd think those were TPE331s, but according to Janes the 120 was to have 900+ hp Bastans. Still don't know whether one was actually built.
 
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dlednicer
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RE: Was This A Real Airplane? (pre-King Air Beech)

Sun Sep 11, 2011 1:07 am

According to "Beechcraft: Fifty Years of Excellence" (published in 1982), a wind tunnel model of the Model 120 was shown at the 1962 Beech distributor's meeting (held in December 1961). It was a eight- to ten-place, pressurized, 300-mph executive transport. The next, year a full-size mockup was shown at the distributor's meeting. The book says that in the end, management concluded that it would take too long and cost too much to develop the Model 120, so the King Air 90 was developed instead. That picture must have been taken at the 1963 distributors meeting (held in December 1962).

On a separate note, Cessna did fly this aircraft, although there are no pictures in the public domain:
http://eclipseaviationcritic.blogspo.../secret-projects-tempus-fugit.html

[Edited 2011-09-10 18:11:13]
 
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dlednicer
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RE: Was This A Real Airplane? (pre-King Air Beech)

Sun Sep 11, 2011 1:15 am

Another one that occured to me: the Beechcraft T-36A was cancelled by the USAF one day before it was supposed to fly. Again, I know of no pictures of it in the public domain, but it looked like this:
 
FlyHossD
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RE: Was This A Real Airplane? (pre-King Air Beech)

Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:42 pm

The photo looks a lot like the Merlin I, IMHO.

Nice contributions in posts 10 and 11, thanks, Dave. Going to Reno this week/weekend?
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
2H4
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RE: Was This A Real Airplane? (pre-King Air Beech)

Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:11 pm

Quoting dlednicer (Reply 11):
I know of no pictures of it in the public domain

Here you go:

http://i.imgur.com/wJUxa.jpg
Intentionally Left Blank
 
Rdh3e
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RE: Was This A Real Airplane? (pre-King Air Beech)

Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:38 pm

Can anybody read/look up the tail reg #?
 
JBirdAV8r
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RE: Was This A Real Airplane? (pre-King Air Beech)

Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:34 pm

Quoting srbmod (Reply 6):
Quoting tp1040 (Reply 2):Could be the model 87. A Queen Air with PT6s. According to wiki, the model 87 was a proof of concept and never went into production.
I believe that's the answer, as looking through the database, the only King Airs that look anything like this are the Model 65-90A-1/2/3/4s that were based on the Model 87 and were built for the US Army (U-21 Ute). All other King Airs have the rounded windows.

It's the Model 120 prototype. The Model 120 was significantly larger than the Model 87, which (for all intents and purposes) pretty much resembles the airplane sitting behind it.

Besides the obvious fact that the fuselage is completely different, the absolute giveaway is the wing. That's a new airfoil that, AFAIK, never made it into production on any Beechcraft airplane. The wing for the King Air and Queen Air was derived from the Twin Bonanza, which sits in the back to the right in this photograph.

It's not a Model 87, in fact there is no Model 87 in this photograph. A Model 87 will look exactly like the airplane sitting behind the Model 120, only with turboprops. I'd say this photograph dates to 1961-1962 or so.
I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
 
2H4
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RE: Was This A Real Airplane? (pre-King Air Beech)

Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:45 pm

Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 15):
The Model 120
http://i.imgur.com/VOwQE.jpg
Intentionally Left Blank
 
JBirdAV8r
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RE: Was This A Real Airplane? (pre-King Air Beech)

Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:55 pm

Quoting dlednicer (Reply 10):
According to "Beechcraft: Fifty Years of Excellence" (published in 1982), a wind tunnel model of the Model 120 was shown at the 1962 Beech distributor's meeting (held in December 1961). It was a eight- to ten-place, pressurized, 300-mph executive transport. The next, year a full-size mockup was shown at the distributor's meeting. The book says that in the end, management concluded that it would take too long and cost too much to develop the Model 120, so the King Air 90 was developed instead. That picture must have been taken at the 1963 distributors meeting (held in December 1962).

On a separate note, Cessna did fly this aircraft, although there are no pictures in the public domain:
http://eclipseaviationcritic.blogspo....html

Totally missed this great post.

I'd say you're right about it being a full scale mockup--I believe the registration (N120B) is a fake. It was attached to a Travel Air about that time period.

And @2H4....awesome picture.
I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
 
tp1040
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RE: Was This A Real Airplane? (pre-King Air Beech)

Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:39 pm

Little more looking, the engines are Turbomeca Bastan 6s.

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1962/1962%20-%203085.html
 
wernerga3
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Re: Was This A Real Airplane? (pre-King Air Beech)

Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:04 pm

I found this brochure which had a whole page on it. They are Turbomeca Bastan 6s and the plane was only a mockup

Image
Image
 
Dalmd88
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Re: Was This A Real Airplane? (pre-King Air Beech)

Fri Feb 07, 2020 8:31 pm

Pretty cool pics. The dead give a ways that it was not a Merlin to are; cockpit window config, Merlin has a three fwd windows single side window; Merlin engines have intakes on the top.
 
crjflyboy
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Re: Was This A Real Airplane? (pre-King Air Beech)

Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:04 pm

other then the engines, this could have been a great seller for them ... PT 6 engines did not enter service until 1964
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: RE: Was This A Real Airplane? (pre-King Air Beech)

Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:15 am

2H4 wrote:
Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 15):The Model 120


That tail looks remarkably like the original United tail:

 
ParkFSI
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Re: Was This A Real Airplane? (pre-King Air Beech)

Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:52 am

timz wrote:
Did they actually build a flying Model 120 (or whatever this was) or was this some sort of mockup?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/4590230262


Thanks for posting ! I’ve been associated with Merlin / Metros for 31 years and have never seen this. I no it’s not a Merlin but this may explain the history of how Ed Swearingen started his initial design. The SA26 with piston engine’s, SA26-T ll and IIA with PT-6’s and the llB with TPE-3’s. All of these with Beechcraft wings and tail and the fuselage is very similar.
Thread killer
 
strfyr51
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Re: Was This A Real Airplane? (pre-King Air Beech)

Sat Feb 08, 2020 1:23 am

That's a Merlin. the Engines are Garrett 331's Beech did build a Garret powered Beach King Air but the Exhaust was ported over the outboard side of the Pylon as the PT6 Was Exhausted just aft of the prop . I made a lot of money doing the Gearbox Inspections on the 331-2 thru 5's and even more doing PT6 30-50 series Hot sections including PT6 powered AG Airplanes down in the Imperial Valley of California.

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