Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
apodino
Topic Author
Posts: 3942
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:11 am

Chautauqua Parking All F9 ERJ's?

Fri Sep 09, 2011 3:21 pm

Haven't seen an official link on this but a source at RAH mentioned that the Chautuaqua ERJ's currently in service for F9 are all being parked, and that RAH is furloughing 56 new hires and that this was announced to their employee group today.

I can't say the ERJ flying surprises me if its true, but what does this mean for F9 going forward?
 
loggat
Posts: 437
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2000 11:34 am

RE: Chautauqua Parking All F9 ERJ's?

Fri Sep 09, 2011 3:35 pm

Wow, you're fast. I just heard it from someone in training about 30 minutes ago, hot off the press. I have heard nothing official though, so I don't want to speculate in a public forum as to numbers and intent.
There are 3 types of people in this world, those that can count, and those that can't.
 
User avatar
TVNWZ
Posts: 2269
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:28 am

RE: Chautauqua Parking All F9 ERJ's?

Fri Sep 09, 2011 4:14 pm

Also, believed that 400 Republic employess in MKE will be laid off by/in November. This from conversations inside the company.
 
User avatar
JBo
Posts: 1769
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 7:23 am

RE: Chautauqua Parking All F9 ERJ's?

Fri Sep 09, 2011 4:15 pm

They can't be parking all of them since they have EAS contracts for MBL and IWD. Nothing has been posted on the DOT dockets for those regarding termination or changes in service, so if they are scaling back ERJ ops they haven't closed those cities yet.
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
 
ScottB
Posts: 7050
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

RE: Chautauqua Parking All F9 ERJ's?

Fri Sep 09, 2011 4:24 pm

Quoting apodino (Thread starter):
Haven't seen an official link on this but a source at RAH mentioned that the Chautuaqua ERJ's currently in service for F9 are all being parked, and that RAH is furloughing 56 new hires and that this was announced to their employee group today.

If this is indeed true, that doesn't leave much at MKE.

Quoting JBo (Reply 3):
They can't be parking all of them since they have EAS contracts for MBL and IWD. Nothing has been posted on the DOT dockets for those regarding termination or changes in service, so if they are scaling back ERJ ops they haven't closed those cities yet.

It's unlikely that they'd file to end the EAS flying until the decision to end the Frontier Express ERJ flying was public (since they'd give that as the reason for why they want to pull out of the EAS markets).

[Edited 2011-09-09 09:26:27]
 
User avatar
NWAESC
Posts: 1602
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:02 pm

RE: Chautauqua Parking All F9 ERJ's?

Fri Sep 09, 2011 4:27 pm

Not much left at MKE at all...

Along with that, how many (if any) F9 cities only have EMB service?

Mine has 4x daily service to MKE. With an ERJ pulldown, that would leave 1-2x daily service to DEN, depending on season. They've recently beefed up staffing, and it'd be a shame to see so many possibly get cut.
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
bjorn14
Posts: 3595
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:11 pm

RE: Chautauqua Parking All F9 ERJ's?

Fri Sep 09, 2011 4:30 pm

Quoting JBo (Reply 3):
They can't be parking all of them since they have EAS contracts for MBL and IWD. Nothing has been posted on the DOT dockets for those regarding termination or changes in service, so if they are scaling back ERJ ops they haven't closed those cities yet.
Quoting ScottB (Reply 4):
It's unlikely that they'd file to end the EAS flying until the decision to end the Frontier Express ERJ flying was public (since they'd give that as the reason for why they want to pull out of the EAS markets).

Contracts haven't stopped many a EAS carrier from throwing in the towel mid-contract.
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
User avatar
JBo
Posts: 1769
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 7:23 am

RE: Chautauqua Parking All F9 ERJ's?

Fri Sep 09, 2011 4:56 pm

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 6):
Contracts haven't stopped many a EAS carrier from throwing in the towel mid-contract.

No, it hasn't, but nothing has been posted yet either.
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
 
User avatar
TZTriStar500
Posts: 891
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 1:33 am

RE: Chautauqua Parking All F9 ERJ's?

Fri Sep 09, 2011 4:59 pm

Just announced to employees.....

Today we announced reductions to our network that will become effective on Nov. 1. While the service reductions primarily affect Milwaukee, Kansas City and Denver will see changes as well. These reductions are in addition to those announced last week that will go into effect on Oct. 1.

The November schedule reductions include suspension of nonstop service from Milwaukee to six destinations. We will reduce daily departures from 67 to 45 and ground six ERJ 145s. In the short term, five of the six removed aircraft will be re-deployed in temporary charter service from November through March. The schedule also includes service reductions in Kansas City from 26 daily departures to 20 and suspension of MCI-MSP service.

The schedule cuts will result in reduction in staffing levels in Milwaukee, the details of which will be provided to affected employees early next week.
35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
 
F9Animal
Posts: 4435
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

RE: Chautauqua Parking All F9 ERJ's?

Fri Sep 09, 2011 5:07 pm

Not all ERJ's are being parked. However, several will be. I understand that more cuts in MKE are coming, and there will indeed be layoffs.

I highly respect this move, as it is a move that many felt was needed. I love MKE and it's employees, and I am saddened to hear of the job losses. I hope that most can be handled through attrition. What I would like to see is MKE remain a decent sized operation, and eventual growth with larger aircraft in the future. I wonder if the Q400 might have a fit in MKE? The ERJ's have been discussed in several postings, and a majority of a.netters have stated that the losses from them are not good.

Bedford and team are making some strives, and I applaud them for shifting this airline to become successful.

[Edited 2011-09-09 10:09:32]
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
User avatar
NWAESC
Posts: 1602
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:02 pm

RE: Chautauqua Parking All F9 ERJ's?

Fri Sep 09, 2011 5:09 pm

Quoting TZTriStar500 (Reply 8):
The November schedule reductions include suspension of nonstop service from Milwaukee to six destinations.

Any idea on what the 6 are?
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
ScottB
Posts: 7050
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

RE: Chautauqua Parking All F9 ERJ's?

Fri Sep 09, 2011 5:17 pm

Quoting TZTriStar500 (Reply 8):
The schedule also includes service reductions in Kansas City from 26 daily departures to 20 and suspension of MCI-MSP service.

Frontier/Republic finally blinked. We'll see Delta drop the point-to-point flights from MCI in fairly short order now.

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 9):
I wonder if the Q400 might have a fit in MKE?

Doubtful given the current size of the fleet, unless BB were to reverse his previous position on turboprops. The cost & logistics of splitting the Q400 between MKE and DEN would be unworkable.

[Edited 2011-09-09 10:19:59]
 
User avatar
TZTriStar500
Posts: 891
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 1:33 am

RE: Chautauqua Parking All F9 ERJ's?

Fri Sep 09, 2011 5:28 pm

Quoting nwaesc (Reply 10):
Any idea on what the 6 are?

The email didn't specify and I'm curious as well as about 15 n/s cities have ERJ only service.
35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
 
USPIT10L
Posts: 2059
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:24 am

RE: Chautauqua Parking All F9 ERJ's?

Fri Sep 09, 2011 5:28 pm

Quoting nwaesc (Reply 10):
Any idea on what the 6 are?

Best guess would be MKEATW, MKECLE, MKECMH, MKEFNT, MKEBDL, MKEEWR, and MKEPIT, as they are the only non-EAS routes tied exclusively to MKE. I think RW has been trying to get out of PIT and CLE for over a year now. Why else would you cut schedules to bare-bones levels?
It's a Great Day for Hockey!
 
USPIT10L
Posts: 2059
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:24 am

RE: Chautauqua Parking All F9 ERJ's?

Fri Sep 09, 2011 5:33 pm

Quoting TZTriStar500 (Reply 12):
about 15 n/s cities have ERJ only service.

Try about seven. F9 (pre-merger) was all Airbus, the E170s and 190s were added by RW. IINM, all the ERJ flying is restricted to MCI and MKE. Not too surprised to see MCIMSP cut, however. DL should be out of the p2p flying at MCI soon.
It's a Great Day for Hockey!
 
User avatar
TZTriStar500
Posts: 891
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 1:33 am

RE: Chautauqua Parking All F9 ERJ's?

Fri Sep 09, 2011 5:38 pm

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 14):
Try about seven

Beg to differ, MKE-CMH/DAY/CLE/IND/MSP/SDF/OMA/GRR/GRB/MSN/DSM/BNA/FNT/MBL/EWR are all ERJ/ER3...15 cities

Forgot PIT too, make that 16

[Edited 2011-09-09 10:41:12]

[Edited 2011-09-09 10:43:24]
35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
 
USPIT10L
Posts: 2059
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:24 am

RE: Chautauqua Parking All F9 ERJ's?

Fri Sep 09, 2011 5:44 pm

Quoting TZTriStar500 (Reply 15):
Forgot PIT too, make that 17

Thanks, it doesn't help when F9 gets rid of the PDF timetable on their website. It used to be easy to track changes. Now not so much. Still wouldn't be surprised if the ERJ-only markets went first, however.
It's a Great Day for Hockey!
 
ScottB
Posts: 7050
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

RE: Chautauqua Parking All F9 ERJ's?

Fri Sep 09, 2011 5:57 pm

Quoting TZTriStar500 (Reply 15):
Beg to differ, MKE-IND/CMH/DAY/CLE/IND/MSP/SDF/OMA/GRR/GRB/MSN/DSM/BNA/FNT/MBL/EWR are all ERJ/ER3...16 cities

I think his point was that only seven (apart from the 3 EAS destinations) cities see nothing other than RP ERJ's from MKE; however, of his list, BDL and ATW were already known to be discontinued before today.

I'm not sure that I believe the existence of Airbus or E190 service to or from a city saves the MKE flights, though, as MKE-SDF was already dropped even though DEN-SDF remains in the network. It is certainly also possible that one or more of the destinations to be dropped from MKE would include PHX/LAS/MCO/TPA/RSW/FLL (particularly as the first two are available via DEN).

Just dropping six ERJ-only cities won't result in a decrease in 22 departures from MKE, so I think it's likely that some of the retained spokes will lose one or two daily flights as well.
 
User avatar
knope2001
Posts: 3027
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:54 am

RE: Chautauqua Parking All F9 ERJ's?

Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:25 pm

If I had to guess...

DSM, GRB, CLE, DAY, IND and EWR go.
BOS, PHL, DFW, MCI, DEN, MSP, MSN, FNT, and CMH all lose 1x each, most of these RON overnight at the outstation

45 flights remaining for November:

2 BOS
3 LGA
2 PHL
3 DCA
1 MCO
2 DFW
1 PHX
1 LAS
5 DEN
3 MCO
2 OMA
3 MSP
2 MSN
2 RHI
2 MBL
3 GRR
2 FNT
2 CMH
2 PIT
2 BNA

Obviously just speculation. I could see them dropping MSP outright instead of some other cut.

It's interesting that this comes so quickly on the heels of the announced October cut. I would guess they are getting serious pressure to stem losses in Milwaukee this winter. Funny...these are the types of cuts I hoped would be spared given the day-of-week reductions in MKE announced the other week.
 
atrude777
Posts: 4412
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:23 pm

RE: Chautauqua Parking All F9 ERJ's?

Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:36 pm

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 13):
Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 14):
Quoting TZTriStar500 (Reply 15):

Hey you all forgot MKE-STL!! We see 3 daily as well. I could see this being dropped because of WN flying MKE-STL 2 daily now as well.
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
ScottB
Posts: 7050
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

RE: Chautauqua Parking All F9 ERJ's?

Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:37 pm

Quoting atrude777 (Reply 19):
Hey you all forgot MKE-STL!! We see 3 daily as well. I could see this being dropped because of WN flying MKE-STL 2 daily now as well.

The cessation of MKE-STL was already public with the October MKE reductions, so presumably it's not included in this round.

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 18):
If I had to guess...

DSM, GRB, CLE, DAY, IND and EWR go.
BOS, PHL, DFW, MCI, DEN, MSP, MSN, FNT, and CMH all lose 1x each, most of these RON overnight at the outstation

I don't see them dropping IND for the simple fact that it connects MKE to the RAH mother ship. I'm mixed on DSM because on one hand, FL will be retaining MKE-DSM, while on the other, DSM was apparently a good enough market to see point-to-point Florida service planned. And GRB I also question, as it saw summer seasonal DEN service again this year. I definitely concur on CLE & DAY from looking at Jan-Mar loads this year.
 
sideflare75
Posts: 417
Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 2:30 pm

RE: Chautauqua Parking All F9 ERJ's?

Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:49 pm

Here's a short list I got. I know there is supposed to be one more but this came out of this mornings MKE meeting.

GRB, MSN, DSM, CLE, and MSP all gone.
 
smoot4208
Posts: 595
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:39 am

RE: Chautauqua Parking All F9 ERJ's?

Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:50 pm

Yeah I could easily see FNT, DSM, GRB, and DAY get axed
 
oswegobag
Posts: 47
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:48 pm

RE: Chautauqua Parking All F9 ERJ's?

Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:52 pm

Quoting apodino (Thread starter):
RAH is furloughing 56 new hires
Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 2):
Also, believed that 400 Republic employess in MKE will be laid off by/in November

Does anyone know where the 56 new hires were to supposed be going? Gate Agents? CHQ pilots and FA's?

Anyone know what groups of employees are the 400 or so getting let go?
 
kingcavalier
Posts: 412
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2006 4:02 am

RE: Chautauqua Parking All F9 ERJ's?

Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:56 pm

Quoting sideflare75 (Reply 21):

GRB, MSN, DSM, CLE, and MSP all gone.

CLE, MSP & DSM are no surprise since WN is maintaining their big jet presence on those routes. F9 simply cannot compete on routes such as these with 2 LCC's fighting for what little revenue there is to be had.
Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness
 
sideflare75
Posts: 417
Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 2:30 pm

RE: Chautauqua Parking All F9 ERJ's?

Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:02 pm

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 2):
Also, believed that 400 Republic employess in MKE will be laid off by/in November. This from conversations inside the company.

I'm not even sure there are 400 Republic employees in MKE but the word from this mornings meetings was 16 mechanics and 9 materials people. This only covers the maintenance side of course but I find it hard to believe they can find another 375 people here to lay off unless they close down the call center. No idea how many people work there.
 
User avatar
knope2001
Posts: 3027
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:54 am

RE: Chautauqua Parking All F9 ERJ's?

Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:02 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 20):
I don't see them dropping IND for the simple fact that it connects MKE to the RAH mother ship. I'm mixed on DSM because on one hand, FL will be retaining MKE-DSM, while on the other, DSM was apparently a good enough market to see point-to-point Florida service planned. And GRB I also question, as it saw summer seasonal DEN service again this year. I definitely concur on CLE & DAY from looking at Jan-Mar loads this year

Hard to say. You might be right about IND...IND and EWR were definitely #5 and #6 in my goal to get to six markets to drop. It depends on where the biggest source of bleeding is. If they need more feed for connections, then places like DSM, MSP, MSN, OMA are important. If the connections are a big part of the problem, then those places are in trouble.

DSM is in trouble because they have low local fares and lots of connections (prob at low yields too.) MSP is in a similar boat, and MSN has no local traffic at all. With GRB likely in trouble, maybe MSN is too.

MSP provides lots of connecting volume at Milwaukee and I would sooner see the market get E190. The connecting flows on the E145 are just not likely a good match.
 
User avatar
knope2001
Posts: 3027
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:54 am

RE: Chautauqua Parking All F9 ERJ's?

Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:17 pm

Looks like word got out while I was writing....appears to be MSP, MSN, GRB, DSM, DAY and CLE.

To get to 45 that could be something like this, then:

2 BOS
3 LGA
2 EWR
2 PHL
3 DCA
1 MCO
2 DFW
1 PHX
1 LAS
5 DEN
3 MCI
3 OMA
2 RHI
2 MBL
3 GRR
2 FNT
2 CMH
2 PIT
2 IND
2 BNA

The only good thing I'll say is that the business cuts are not as bad as they could be:

MSN and GRB have no local traffic
DSM and MSP have rather little local traffic for F9. (Neither FL nor F9 really cracked DL's lockhold)
DAY can be accessed via IND or CMH
CLE is a loss

As a MKE-based traveler I'd sooner see MSP go than IND, DSM sooner than BNA, or certainly GRB and MSN over EWR and PIT. I'm eager to see what the remaining schedules looks like. And the notion of cutting from 67 to 45 flights...I'm not positive how they came to exactly 67 before these cuts, and so 45 might not be "45". Is that the departures on the peak day? Departures on the average weekday? Average departures through the entire week? The six cities had 17 flights on peak days, so we know some trip reductions are planned beyond these six dropped markets. I'm guessing fewer overnight flights to places like BOS, DFW, PHL, MCI and CMH but we'll see.
 
PlaneAdmirer
Posts: 259
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 8:39 pm

RE: Chautauqua Parking All F9 ERJ's?

Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:25 pm

I am coming late to this - Is DAY going and if so, when?

Thanks,
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Chautauqua Parking All F9 ERJ's?

Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:32 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 11):
Frontier/Republic finally blinked. We'll see Delta drop the point-to-point flights from MCI in fairly short order now.

I understand the probable inevitability of it, but I wish they'd been able to hang on to that one. I thought it was a battle well worth fighting.

I hope you're right about Delta. I know it's standard practice, but I'm not holding my breath.

mariner

[Edited 2011-09-09 13:33:18]
aeternum nauta
 
rj777
Posts: 1807
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 1:47 am

RE: Chautauqua Parking All F9 ERJ's?

Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:46 pm

So does this mean non-stops between OMA and MKE will be scrubbed? Or upgraded to bigger planes?
 
LoveJT8D
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:31 am

RE: Chautauqua Parking All F9 ERJ's?

Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:09 pm

Two weeks ago I booked CMH-LAX via MKE on Dec 30th. We'll see what happens.
 
dbo861
Posts: 1050
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 2:20 am

RE: Chautauqua Parking All F9 ERJ's?

Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:14 pm

Quoting kingcavalier (Reply 24):
CLE, MSP & DSM are no surprise since WN is maintaining their big jet presence on those routes. F9 simply cannot compete on routes such as these with 2 LCC's fighting for what little revenue there is to be had.

I'm curious if this will benefit FL's DSM-MKE route..recently upgraded from Skywest CRJ to Airtran 717.
 
kingcavalier
Posts: 412
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2006 4:02 am

RE: Chautauqua Parking All F9 ERJ's?

Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:23 pm

Quoting dbo861 (Reply 32):
I'm curious if this will benefit FL's DSM-MKE route..recently upgraded from Skywest CRJ to Airtran 717.

It certainly can't hurt but I bet FL still won't make money on it unless they up their fares.

I think it's interesting that all 6 cities (nothing official, just what has been mentioned here) are all served by F9 to DEN. DAY, DSM, MSN, MSP, GRB and CLE (via CAK) all have nonstop service to DEN. STL was already announced as being cut and it, of course, has nonstop service to DEN as well. And some of these cities have F9 service to Mexico and Florida. So, no city is losing F9 service all together. Don't get me wrong F9 did leave RDU all together when the MKE service was cut. BDL and ATW are in the same boat. But like SDF, the 6 routes getting axed in the November schedule will still have an F9 presence. So that raises the question about what will happen to other ERJ markets like PIT with only MKE service. I think Bedford is far from done.
Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness
 
ridgid727
Posts: 1081
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:58 am

RE: Chautauqua Parking All F9 ERJ's?

Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:26 pm

Do you think 12 months from now, F9 will even have 45 departures at MKE? Just sayin---it looks kinda bleak for MKE.
 
MSYtristar
Posts: 7543
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:52 am

RE: Chautauqua Parking All F9 ERJ's?

Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:33 pm

Any word on MCI cuts besides the before mentioned MSP service? Where are the other four coming from? Disappointing to see MCI pulled back.
 
kingcavalier
Posts: 412
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2006 4:02 am

RE: Chautauqua Parking All F9 ERJ's?

Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:35 pm

Quoting ridgid727 (Reply 34):
Do you think 12 months from now, F9 will even have 45 departures at MKE? Just sayin---it looks kinda bleak for MKE.

I think it might be half that many and resemble a MCI-sized focus city. The E135/E145 has no place in a high oil cost/low fare/LCC business model. Removing 6 E135/E145 is just the start and it seems will only incease the CASM on the remaining E135/E145 left in the branded operation. I think the band-aid has only been pulled half way off. They've got to sort out the remaining E135/E145 MKE routes like PIT, FNT & GRR. If F9 cannot get a compensatory fare to cover the costs of the E135/E145 then they need to cut any remaining unprofitable routes. I think the future F9 branded ops will be 99+ seat aircraft only and if the markets cannot support that gauge of equipment it will not stick around.
Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness
 
ScottB
Posts: 7050
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

RE: Chautauqua Parking All F9 ERJ's?

Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:36 pm

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 26):
It depends on where the biggest source of bleeding is. If they need more feed for connections, then places like DSM, MSP, MSN, OMA are important. If the connections are a big part of the problem, then those places are in trouble.
Quoting knope2001 (Reply 27):
Looks like word got out while I was writing....appears to be MSP, MSN, GRB, DSM, DAY and CLE.

I suppose that answers the question; the connections are the bigger part of the problem. I'm really a bit surprised about GRB, MSN & DSM given the DEN flights for all three and the Florida flights for the latter two. Dropping MSP probably makes sense with the competition from both DL and FL/WN, although MKE-MSP is in the top 10 or 12 MKE O&D's (just as ATL is).

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 27):
And the notion of cutting from 67 to 45 flights...I'm not positive how they came to exactly 67 before these cuts, and so 45 might not be "45". Is that the departures on the peak day? Departures on the average weekday? Average departures through the entire week? The six cities had 17 flights on peak days, so we know some trip reductions are planned beyond these six dropped markets. I'm guessing fewer overnight flights to places like BOS, DFW, PHL, MCI and CMH but we'll see.

From my count, I would guess we're talking about average weekday departures since I came up with 69 peak day departures in November. If the E170's really are all leaving the fleet, I could see DFW shifting from the current scheduled three E170's to two E190's. I don't expect DEN to lose a flight; the six DEN-MKE flights run full very consistently, but MCI-MKE does not perform as well.

There aren't a lot of places they can make further cuts; on any route where they'd expect yields that can cover the costs of an ERJ, two daily round-trips are going to be the absolute minimum.

Quoting TZTriStar500 (Reply 8):
The schedule also includes service reductions in Kansas City from 26 daily departures to 20 and suspension of MCI-MSP service.

So will they move ahead with the additional gate at MCI, or is that no longer needed?

Quoting kingcavalier (Reply 36):
They've got to sort out the remaining E135/E145 MKE routes like PIT, FNT & GRR. If F9 cannot get a compensatory fare to cover the costs of the E135/E145 then they need to cut any remaining unprofitable routes. I think the future F9 branded ops will be 99+ seat aircraft only and if the markets cannot support that gauge of equipment it will not stick around.

Perhaps PIT gets a chance to see if it will improve with OO/FL* out of the market. But honestly, I don't see any of the remaining ERJ markets as being workable with the E190; they are pretty much all too small going by O&D.

[Edited 2011-09-09 14:49:35]
 
MSNfan
Posts: 148
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:24 am

RE: Chautauqua Parking All F9 ERJ's?

Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:07 pm

Wow, I actually just flew F9 MSN-MKE-MSP-MKE-MSN this week. I guess apparently that was my first and last time doing that. One thing that really stood out at Concourse D in MKE was the amount of Chautuaqua ERJ traffic. Looks like it will be taking a substantial hit. Too bad about MSN losing MKE service after all those years (F9 and YX), it was certainly a fun flight to take. I wonder how long MSN will keep the F9 DEN (and eventually MCO) service...
Dentistry: Because everyone smiles in the same language!
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 3856
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

RE: Chautauqua Parking All F9 ERJ's?

Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:34 pm

This explains why the F9 station manager at MSP hhas not been her usual happy self this week.
 
fanofjets
Posts: 2025
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2000 2:26 am

RE: Chautauqua Parking All F9 ERJ's?

Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:41 pm

I flew them last year, EWR-MKE (aboard an ERJ). Sad to see them go. I also miss those nifty Midwest Boeing 717s at EWR. I guess I'll be flying Delta a litttle more now.
The aeroplane has unveiled for us the true face of the earth. -Antoine de Saint-Exupery
 
FL787
Posts: 366
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:18 am

RE: Chautauqua Parking All F9 ERJ's?

Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:10 am

Like most here I'm shocked that this is being announced not even a week after F9 implemented the day of the week cuts. It's also surprising to hear about the MCI cuts considering they announced LAS and HOU not too long ago. We really take the blunt of the cuts here in MSP going from 11 flights to 5. I knew MCI-MSP wasn't exactly stellar but I agree with Mariner that the route was worth more than the profit or loss. I guess the board was getting a little antsy...

I really think F9 needs to make sure they do not become as DEN-centric as they used to be but things are heading in the opposite direction. If MCI and/or MKE aren't the answer then perhaps more Florida P2P could be a possibility.

As for the 45 MKE flights left, I'll go ahead and throw my hat into the ring. I'm separating it by the type of market:

5x DEN
3x MCI

3x LGA
3x DCA
2x BOS
2x DFW

1x PHX
1x LAS
0x Anywhere in Florida (I don't think F9 has any interest in serving MKE-Florida outside of peak periods)

3x GRR
3x FNT
3x OMA
2x EWR
2x PHL
2x PIT
2x CMH
2x BNA
2x IND
2x MBL
2x RHI-IWD

That's a total of 45 flights. I think F9 now regrets bidding for the EAS routes as now they are stuck with not only the markets but also a fleet that is dwindling until they find a replacement carrier.

Unfortunately for MKE, I think it will end up looking like markets such as SAT, CMH, IND, etc.: A market with a decent legacy and LCC presence but few exciting new route possibilities. That's a far cry from having two LCC hubs...
 
User avatar
knope2001
Posts: 3027
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:54 am

RE: Chautauqua Parking All F9 ERJ's?

Sat Sep 10, 2011 1:02 am

Quoting ScottB (Reply 37):
Perhaps PIT gets a chance to see if it will improve with OO/FL* out of the market. But honestly, I don't see any of the remaining ERJ markets as being workable with the E190; they are pretty much all too small going by O&D.

Do remember that Chautauqua F9* does not show up in the DoT market stats. The quarterly reports of local O+D aer singificantly underreported because of this. That's not to say most of these can reasonably support E190, but these markets are not as tiny as the quarterly DoT stats suggest.

Quoting FL787 (Reply 41):
As for the 45 MKE flights left, I'll go ahead and throw my hat into the ring.

I like your thinking...see post 27. Of course we do clash in one place...you have a 3rd FNT flight while I still have one MCO flight.

Quoting fanofjets (Reply 40):
I flew them last year, EWR-MKE (aboard an ERJ). Sad to see them go

Note that EWR isn't ending...they will still fly MKE-EWR.
 
F9Animal
Posts: 4435
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

RE: Chautauqua Parking All F9 ERJ's?

Sat Sep 10, 2011 1:25 am

Quoting ridgid727 (Reply 34):
Do you think 12 months from now, F9 will even have 45 departures at MKE? Just sayin---it looks kinda bleak for MKE.

Time is important. 12 months from now, oil might be at a manageable level to bring back some of the flights. However, I doubt we will see ERJ's much longer. As F9 gets more Airbus aircraft in the fleet, expansion is a possibility. That certainly is up for debate, but again, if oil drops, we might see growth again.

Here is the big question I have. If Republic had not bought F9, what do you think the MKE operation would have been? Was Republic getting hammered when they took over Midwest to begin with?

I am sad to see MKE going this direction, but I also understand it. I have many friends in markets mentioned being cut. I feel very badly for them. '

CLE is a market that bums me out. Why not fly DEN to CLE? I think CLE has tons of potential.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
n7371f
Posts: 1836
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:54 pm

RE: Chautauqua Parking All F9 ERJ's?

Sat Sep 10, 2011 1:29 am

Quoting FL787 (Reply 41):
I really think F9 needs to make sure they do not become as DEN-centric as they used to be but things are heading in the opposite direction.

Returning to DEN-centric is what made Frontier survive bankruptcy under Menke.
 
ruuxxv
Posts: 56
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2001 4:39 am

RE: Chautauqua Parking All F9 ERJ's?

Sat Sep 10, 2011 1:35 am

In this week's load the following are cxld eff 1Nov.

MKE-MSP
MKE-MSN
MKE-DSM
MKE-GRB
MKE-CLE
MKE-DAY
 
FL787
Posts: 366
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:18 am

RE: Chautauqua Parking All F9 ERJ's?

Sat Sep 10, 2011 1:47 am

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 42):
I like your thinking...see post 27.

Guess my list was a little redundant then.   I actually did read your post but I made my list after that and never went back and compared. Guess I could have saved myself some typing. I didn't count MCO because currently on weekdays it's supposed to only operate 13 so I figured that wasn't included in the 45.

Quoting n7371f (Reply 44):
Returning to DEN-centric is what made Frontier survive bankruptcy under Menke.

True but I'm not convinced that strategy is the correct one this time.
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Chautauqua Parking All F9 ERJ's?

Sat Sep 10, 2011 2:16 am

Quoting n7371f (Reply 44):
Returning to DEN-centric is what made Frontier survive bankruptcy under Menke.

I'm not sure that is what is happening. I think it is doing to MKE what SM did to DEN.

I've been saying for some time that I want to see MKE "sorted out" and I've always believed that it required something radical. I didn't count last week's minor adjustments as radical.

This is radical, and as such, I think it represents a most complete review not just of what Frontier is but what, in this environment, Frontier can be in the future.

I think MKE can have a clear and important place in the network, just as MCI has, but I think these moves are vitally necessary and, perhaps, a tad overdue.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
YXwatcherMKE
Posts: 384
Joined: Sat May 05, 2007 3:06 pm

RE: Chautauqua Parking All F9 ERJ's?

Sat Sep 10, 2011 3:41 am

Don't count out the Florida Markets on your counts of cities with service this winter because F9 is advertising MCO, FLL, TPA and RSW like crazy on the radio including today's Brewer's game.

As to the MKE lay-off's this was on the radio today regarding the reductions at MKE....
"A spokesperson for the company says it is currently unclear how many people will lose their jobs but the number will likely be more than 100."
http://www.620wtmj.com/news/local/129554838.html
I miss the 60's & 70's when you felt like a guest on the plane not cattle like today
 
toltommy
Posts: 2790
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:04 am

RE: Chautauqua Parking All F9 ERJ's?

Sat Sep 10, 2011 3:51 am

Quoting YXwatcherMKE (Reply 48):
Don't count out the Florida Markets on your counts of cities with service this winter because F9 is advertising MCO, FLL, TPA and RSW like crazy on the radio including today's Brewer's game.

The ad space was likely purchased well in advance. Just because its being advertised today doesn't mean it'll actually be flown. I hope its not true, no promises at this point.
A300/A310/A319/A320/A321/A332/A333 / 707/712/727/732/733/734/735/738/739/752/753
/762/763/764/772/788/789/DC8/DC9-10/30/40/50/MD81/83/87/88/90/L1011-/250/500/CRJ200/440 /700/900/EMB135/140/145/170/175/190/328Jet/F70/SF3/BE1/J31

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos