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777way
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PIA Airbus Fleet Under EU Scrutiny Again

Mon Sep 12, 2011 3:37 pm

Related due to fuel leak on an aircraft heading back home from Paris last month, it was stopped from leaving and held up for four days, http://nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-n...irbus-flights--face-another-EU-ban
 
varig md-11
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RE: PIA Airbus Fleet Under EU Scrutiny Again

Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:16 pm

Thanks for the link to the article.
I saw the plane parking 4 days at CDG with DGAC inspectors on the back of PK technicians.

The A310 in question looked decrepit with scratches, leaks, stains of all kinds.
While the engine latch was open I saw electric cables with damaged insulation and /or sort of hanging out fixing system.
PK technicians and station manager were of good will but the task just looked too big and DGAC inspectors couldn't hide their anger.

Now we'll have the 777 back but this coffin will still fly in Pakistan
AF TW AA NW DL UA CO BA U2 TP UX LH SK AZ MP KL SN VY HV LS SS TK SQ PC RG IW SE LI TX PY
 
777way
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RE: PIA Airbus Fleet Under EU Scrutiny Again

Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:15 pm

That was one of the leased PW engined aircraft.
 
kaitak
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RE: PIA Airbus Fleet Under EU Scrutiny Again

Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:17 pm

Which A310 was it (reg)?
 
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OA260
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RE: PIA Airbus Fleet Under EU Scrutiny Again

Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:21 pm

Quoting kaitak (Reply 3):
Which A310 was it (reg)?

AP-BGO
 
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breiz
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RE: PIA Airbus Fleet Under EU Scrutiny Again

Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:22 pm

Quoting kaitak (Reply 3):
Which A310 was it (reg)?


???
The linked article says BGO.

OA260, you have beaten me to it  Smile.

By the way, the news article is quite a read!

[Edited 2011-09-12 14:38:03]
 
AT
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RE: PIA Airbus Fleet Under EU Scrutiny Again

Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:01 pm

"When contacted PIA spokesman Tajwar said, “Yes it happened and PIA A-310 plane was inspected by SAFA inspectors at Paris airport who detected a good number of snags in the plane but PIA is no more operating Airbus for European destinations, rather B-777 planes have replaced them for said sector”.

That is unintentionally hilarious-- the A310s are not safe enough to travel to Paris or Europe, but they're okay for other parts of the world?

They're either safe to fly or not-- and if not, they should be withdrawn from service until any issues are fixed.
 
NoUFO
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RE: PIA Airbus Fleet Under EU Scrutiny Again

Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:04 pm

Quoting AT (Reply 6):
They're either safe to fly or not-- and if not, they should be withdrawn from service until any issues are fixed.

Can SAFA do that or would that be up to the authorities in Pakistan?
I support the right to arm bears
 
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MillwallSean
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RE: PIA Airbus Fleet Under EU Scrutiny Again

Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:26 pm

You know you have a failed company and a failed CAA when the solution is to operate a different plane instead of addressing the issue.
That the man happily says the problem is solved no more A310 to Europe just says it all. Avoid PIA seems to be the best advice I can give. Eventually such antics results in a crash.

Lets hope the 777 and any other plane arriving on EU soil gets inspected frequently and with great detail. The knowledge of that happening might be enough to get the PIA people to ensure that those planes are kept according to standards. I know PIA have qualified enough people to do it but I doubt that management of PIA is in many cases qualified enough to assess or give orders.
With the relationship and cronyism mentioned in the article I wouldn't be surprised to hear more about Pakistan and discussions about putting them on the EU black list.
No One Likes Us - We Dont Care.
 
comorin
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RE: PIA Airbus Fleet Under EU Scrutiny Again

Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:34 am

This is the classic line:

...Civil Aviation Authority spokesperson had said that CAA inspectors checked the aircraft regularly and the faults for which the aircraft was held at Paris might have developed after it flew out from here.

Oh really...   
 
AT
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RE: PIA Airbus Fleet Under EU Scrutiny Again

Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:45 am

The sad part is that PIA used to be a leading airline of the region just a couple of decades ago. And it is in shambles now.
 
risingsunfitnes
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RE: PIA Airbus Fleet Under EU Scrutiny Again

Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:05 am

Whether it is PIA, or any other airline, maybe this is naive, but how could mgmt possibly just let things go, and "swap" planes on a sector. I mean we all know how well Iran air is in their ingenuity to keep their birds flying with embargoes. And correct me if I'm wrong but PIA has none ?
 
usmanj
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RE: PIA Airbus Fleet Under EU Scrutiny Again

Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:09 am

PIA is a failing day by day...
 
usmanj
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RE: PIA Airbus Fleet Under EU Scrutiny Again

Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:13 am

Only use the faulty planes for carrying the politician on their state paid overseas visits.
 
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CrimsonNL
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RE: PIA Airbus Fleet Under EU Scrutiny Again

Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:57 am

Does the fact that the BGO is a leased plane have anything to do with it? I couldn't help but notice that the BGN (also leased) I was on was significantly more worn down then the BEU (one of PK's own planes). Their dispatch reliability in AMS is pretty good with hardly any technical issues that arise.
Always comparing your flown types list with mine
 
zainmax
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RE: PIA Airbus Fleet Under EU Scrutiny Again

Tue Sep 13, 2011 7:04 am

Quoting comorin (Reply 9):

This is the classic line:

...Civil Aviation Authority spokesperson had said that CAA inspectors checked the aircraft regularly and the faults for which the aircraft was held at Paris might have developed after it flew out from here.

Oh really...   

Yeah really there are signs of hard landings on this aircraft and fuel leaks are identified due to that from not one place because wings structure sustained fatigue loads.

PIA A310's are airworthy and flying according to EASA/CAA Pak regulations.
Here in Pakistan our whole fleet is SAFA inspected regularly.
ZAINMAX APPRENTICE MECHANIC - PIA
 
nclmedic
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RE: PIA Airbus Fleet Under EU Scrutiny Again

Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:42 am

Quoting AT (Reply 6):
That is unintentionally hilarious-- the A310s are not safe enough to travel to Paris or Europe, but they're okay for other parts of the world?

And the flip side of this being that a badly maintained 777 is just as dangerous as a badly maintained A310!

A 20 minute evacuation from the order is a disgrace. This is nothing to do with maintenance but inadequate training. Can't say this fills me with reassurance for PIA...
 
na
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RE: PIA Airbus Fleet Under EU Scrutiny Again

Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:51 am

How many years until PIAs 777s are under threat of banning to fly into the EU?

Quoting nclmedic (Reply 16):
And the flip side of this being that a badly maintained 777 is just as dangerous as a badly maintained A310!

Of cause. And why should someone expect PIA to manintain its 777s better than its A310s?
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: PIA Airbus Fleet Under EU Scrutiny Again

Tue Sep 13, 2011 9:14 am

Quoting nclmedic (Reply 16):
Quoting AT (Reply 6):
That is unintentionally hilarious-- the A310s are not safe enough to travel to Paris or Europe, but they're okay for other parts of the world?

And the flip side of this being that a badly maintained 777 is just as dangerous as a badly maintained A310!

A 20 minute evacuation from the order is a disgrace. This is nothing to do with maintenance but inadequate training. Can't say this fills me with reassurance for PIA...

Probably the crew allowing the C and F pax to collect their belongings and leave at their leisure before they let the Y pax off, who did not listen to the announcements and took all their hand baggage with them...
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
zainmax
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RE: PIA Airbus Fleet Under EU Scrutiny Again

Tue Sep 13, 2011 10:00 am

Quoting na (Reply 17):
Of cause. And why should someone expect PIA to manintain its 777s better than its A310s?

Who can expect what from airlines's engineering around the world.
No body knows what is going on under the hood, so if you have any concerns than you are welcome for revewing B777 Maintenance Program at PK.
ZAINMAX APPRENTICE MECHANIC - PIA
 
aljrooney
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RE: PIA Airbus Fleet Under EU Scrutiny Again

Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:04 pm

Quoting zainmax (Reply 15):
Yeah really there are signs of hard landings on this aircraft and fuel leaks are identified due to that from not one place because wings structure sustained fatigue loads.

PIA A310's are airworthy and flying according to EASA/CAA Pak regulations.
Here in Pakistan our whole fleet is SAFA inspected regularly.

So did someone crawl out and close the latch with lockwire while enroute?
 
na
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RE: PIA Airbus Fleet Under EU Scrutiny Again

Tue Sep 13, 2011 2:29 pm

Quoting zainmax (Reply 19):
Who can expect what from airlines's engineering around the world.
No body knows what is going on under the hood, so if you have any concerns than you are welcome for revewing B777 Maintenance Program at PK.

I didnt mean to insult the maintenance at PIA, but if A310 and 747s have been found defective by European controllers, why should someone expect the 777s fair better when they get old? Not logical. Its maintained by the same people and the 777 isnt made of better material than the 747 or A310s.
 
777way
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RE: PIA Airbus Fleet Under EU Scrutiny Again

Tue Sep 13, 2011 2:38 pm

Quoting AT (Reply 10):
The sad part is that PIA used to be a leading airline of the region just a couple of decades ago.

No that was in the 1960s.
 
zainmax
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RE: PIA Airbus Fleet Under EU Scrutiny Again

Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:10 pm

Quoting aljrooney (Reply 20):
So did someone crawl out and close the latch with lockwire while enroute?

The question here is regarding fuel leak. Locking wires are not in question right now and no latch found secured with a locking wire I guess. This common quote won't work any more  
Quoting na (Reply 21):
I didnt mean to insult the maintenance at PIA, but if A310 and 747s have been found defective by European controllers, why should someone expect the 777s fair better when they get old? Not logical. Its maintained by the same people and the 777 isnt made of better material than the 747 or A310s.

No I didn't mean to criticize you.
Indeed you are 100% correct that same people are maintaining the B777 fleet and it's a sensitive aircraft as compared to A310 and B747. Since 2007 things have changed now but still problems persists as it is an ageing fleet.

Engineers do sustain pressures to fly the aircraft and this is a common practice in the world for example in WN, Alaska, etc.
FAA fines several careers over poor maintenance every year, it does not mean that their fleet is not airworthy and maintenance is not looking after the fleet properly.

Same is the case here, aircraft with serious nature of defects are grounded and rectified as per EU/FAA regulations.
In this case there are several contributing factors like the evacuation of passengers was delayed (annoying for DGAC inspectors at that moment), chances of hard landing due to which aircraft suffered fuel leak defect.

Apart from above factors CAA Pakistan also carry out regular inspections on PIA aircraft as per SAFA requirements so that an airworthy aircraft flies out of Pakistan airspace.
ZAINMAX APPRENTICE MECHANIC - PIA
 
aad665
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RE: PIA Airbus Fleet Under EU Scrutiny Again

Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:43 pm

HI,

"Apart from above factors CAA Pakistan also carry out regular inspections on PIA aircraft as per SAFA requirements so that an airworthy aircraft flies out of Pakistan airspace."

just to correct a point...CAA Pak doesnt carry SAFA inspection to PIA, they monitor the AOC, fleet ops, and CofA or can do a SANA inspection to PIA. A SAFA inspection is for "Foreign operator" and PIA is not a Foreign ops to CAA- Pak.

It is normal that the director of DGCA sent a letter to CAA-PAK as it is normal standard procedure for SAFA.

aad665
 
zainmax
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RE: PIA Airbus Fleet Under EU Scrutiny Again

Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:05 am

Quoting aad665 (Reply 24):
just to correct a point...CAA Pak doesnt carry SAFA inspection to PIA, they monitor the AOC, fleet ops, and CofA or can do a SANA inspection to PIA. A SAFA inspection is for "Foreign operator" and PIA is not a Foreign ops to CAA- Pak.

I stated that CAA Pakistan does inspect as per SAFA PROCEDURE not like SAFA inspectors.
The things pointed out in these inspections by SAFA inspectors are noted so that local regulator can inspect the aircraft before aircraft flies out of Pakistan.

And yeah any regulatory in the world has right to send in writing to the operator's regulatory to point out safety hazards and lack of maintenance issues.
ZAINMAX APPRENTICE MECHANIC - PIA
 
charliecossie
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RE: PIA Airbus Fleet Under EU Scrutiny Again

Wed Sep 14, 2011 12:22 pm

If these 310s are so badly maintained and so dangerous, I wonder why Lufthansa technicians (and likely Air France technicians) are releasing the aircraft from Frankfurt (and Paris) when they visit?
Lufthansa *do* handle PIA in FRA and most likely Air France handle them in Paris (but I'm not positive as I don't work there). Any licenced engineer can refuse to release an aircraft he considers unsafe.
 
777way
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RE: PIA Airbus Fleet Under EU Scrutiny Again

Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:43 pm

773 BHW was held up at Milan for 2 hours due to SAFA inspection while heading to Paris.

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