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robo65
Topic Author
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CO 762. Another Exits Fleet

Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:24 pm

I know there was another thread several months ago regarding CO 767-200's that are exiting the fleet. I couldn't find that original thread to add this information to. Aircraft 157 CO 767-200 is at IAH preparing to exit fleet, it shows exit fleet to lease. Evidently CO has leased this aircraft out to some other carrier.
 
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kgaiflyer
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RE: CO 762. Another Exits Fleet

Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:00 am

Quoting robo65 (Thread starter):
I know there was another thread several months ago regarding CO 767-200's that are exiting the fleet. I couldn't find that original thread to add this information to. Aircraft 157 CO 767-200 is at IAH preparing to exit fleet, it shows exit fleet to lease. Evidently CO has leased this aircraft out to some other carrier.

UA's original idea -- when it retired its 762s -- was to have an agent market them as potential business aircraft. One or two sold abroad, but the rest found value as organ donors to other airframes.
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I hope the CO birds meet a different fate.
 
gigneil
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RE: CO 762. Another Exits Fleet

Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:07 am

These are wwwwaaaaaayyyy different circumstances - new frames, current engines.

NS
 
cslusarc
Posts: 554
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RE: CO 762. Another Exits Fleet

Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:16 am

Aren't CO's 762s 10-15 years younger that those UA 762 that were retired during bankruptcy?

I expect that the PMCO 762s will end up either in Latin America, Africa, South Asia or the former Soviet Union where they are willing to accept older planes and utilize them less like Allegiant.
--cslusarc from YWG
 
United1
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RE: CO 762. Another Exits Fleet

Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:18 am

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 1):
One or two sold abroad, but the rest found value as organ donors to other airframes.

UA did a pretty good job of marketing them to other carriers...of the 18 that were retired with UA 13 went on to other carriers. A few are still flying here in the US with Vegas Jet.

Quoting cslusarc (Reply 3):
Aren't CO's 762s 10-15 years younger that those UA 762 that were retired during bankruptcy?

They are and UA is keeping an eye out for leasing/sales opportunities for them as they have the worst CASM in the widebody fleet.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
modesto2
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RE: CO 762. Another Exits Fleet

Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:18 am

I don't know the exact ages, but CO's 762 fleet is much younger than was UA's 762 fleet.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
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RE: CO 762. Another Exits Fleet

Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:21 am

They were delivered from 1999-2001.

UA's weren't even all 762ERs, and all (almost all?) had JT9Ds.

NS
 
washingtonian
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RE: CO 762. Another Exits Fleet

Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:44 am

How many 762s does that leave in the United fleet?
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
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RE: CO 762. Another Exits Fleet

Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:46 am

Seven.

This is filler.

Etc. So on.

NS
 
Viscount724
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RE: CO 762. Another Exits Fleet

Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:52 am

Quoting gigneil (Reply 6):
They were delivered from 1999-2001.

The first of CO's 10 762ERs was delivered November 9, 2000 and the last October 29, 2001. The were the last non-military 762s built apart from one or two government VIP aircraft.
 
gigneil
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RE: CO 762. Another Exits Fleet

Tue Sep 13, 2011 2:11 am

You know, I wanted to say all in 2000 and 2001 but something told me I was wrong.... thx.

NS
 
United1
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RE: CO 762. Another Exits Fleet

Tue Sep 13, 2011 2:27 am

Quoting gigneil (Reply 6):
UA's weren't even all 762ERs, and all (almost all?) had JT9Ds.

None were ERs...UA converted 11 of the 19 to ETOPS standards and used them across the Atlantic but they were not full fledged ERs. They were all JT9D's...
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
warreng24
Posts: 574
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2005 9:38 am

RE: CO 762. Another Exits Fleet

Tue Sep 13, 2011 2:37 am

Quoting gigneil (Reply 6):
UA's weren't even all 762ERs, and all (almost all?) had JT9Ds.

Correct. The PMUA 762 fleet were some of the earliest birds off the assembly line. Each one was JT9D powered. The thirsty and MX intensive JT9D's was the primary reason that the birds were retired.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 9):
The first of CO's 10 762ERs was delivered November 9, 2000 and the last October 29, 2001. The were the last non-military 762s built apart from one or two government VIP aircraft.

Correct. All the PMCO 762's are CF-6 powered and are some of the newest 762's out there.
 
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AA777223
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RE: CO 762. Another Exits Fleet

Tue Sep 13, 2011 3:17 am

Does anyone have a seatmap of the old UA 762s? I think they were used primarily Transcon, like AAs (pre PS service). Hence the 762 loss on 9/11.
A318/19/20/21, A300, A332/3, A343/6, A388, L1011, DC-9, DC-10, MD-11, MD-80, B722, B732/3/4/5/7/8/9, B743/4/4M, B752/3, B762/3/4, B772/E/W, B788/9, F-100, CRJ-200/700/900, ERJ-135/145/175/190, DH-8, ATR-72, DO-328, BAE-146
 
gigneil
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RE: CO 762. Another Exits Fleet

Tue Sep 13, 2011 3:50 am

They were configured just like an international plane at the time. 2-1-2 first class seating, no suites. The normal business class seats, etc.

NS
 
FL787
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RE: CO 762. Another Exits Fleet

Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:38 am

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 7):
How many 762s does that leave in the United fleet?
Quoting gigneil (Reply 8):
Seven.

There will still be 8 after this plane leaves. I would bet that the remaining 762s will operate almost exclusively to South America by next year so UA can advertise all flat beds in Business class across both oceans.
 
fly2yyz
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RE: CO 762. Another Exits Fleet

Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:38 am

I wonder if there are any airlines looking to get their hands on a few of these 762s... maybe as a 310 replacement.
 
Max Q
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RE: CO 762. Another Exits Fleet

Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:00 am

Our 762's are the cream of the Crop, newest Airframes with the highest gross weight, most powerful engines and best performance of any that were made.



Shame to see them go, they are a delight to fly and the only Aircraft I have flown that can make a 757 seem underpowered !
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
nascarnut
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RE: CO 762. Another Exits Fleet

Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:07 am

Wouldn't they have been better off using this aircraft to operate the 2nd EWR-FRA flight just released. With the Mail and freight volumes going into and out of FRA, couldn't UA/CO make better use of the 762 vs a 757 anc capture both the premium customers along with the cargo/mail
 
robo65
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Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 4:53 am

RE: CO 762. Another Exits Fleet

Tue Sep 13, 2011 10:48 am

Quoting fly2yyz (Reply 16):
I wonder if there are any airlines looking to get their hands on a few of these 762s... maybe as a 310 replacement.Worked on the following

I am sure someone will pick these aircraft up because they are fairly new. A/C 155 is still sitting at GYR awaiting a new home. I had heard a rumor a few months ago that it was going to Omni International but so far it hasn't moved from GYR. A//C 157 the newest to exit shows parked IAH preparing exit to lease. So it appears A/C 157 has already found a new home.
 
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DL_Mech
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RE: CO 762. Another Exits Fleet

Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:16 am

I think they will have no problem remarketing these a/c as tanker or AWACS conversions. Remember that these 762s are about the only ones built with a fuel dump system.
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
warreng24
Posts: 574
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2005 9:38 am

RE: CO 762. Another Exits Fleet

Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:40 am

Quoting AA777223 (Reply 13):
Does anyone have a seatmap of the old UA 762s?

Google Images search is your friend.
http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/attack/docs/United_B762_B.png
 
EXCOASA1982
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RE: CO 762. Another Exits Fleet

Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:13 pm

Quoting NASCARNUT (Reply 18):
Wouldn't they have been better off using this aircraft to operate the 2nd EWR-FRA flight just released. With the Mail and freight volumes going into and out of FRA, couldn't UA/CO make better use of the 762 vs a 757 anc capture both the premium customers along with the cargo/mail

Not to hijack the thread, but when did the 2nd EWR-FRA get announced? Am I completely out of the loop? Thanks.

Nick
 
akelley728
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RE: CO 762. Another Exits Fleet

Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:51 pm

Quoting robo65 (Reply 19):
A/C 155 is still sitting at GYR awaiting a new home. I had heard a rumor a few months ago that it was going to Omni International but so far it hasn't moved from GYR.

Was A/C 155 the first the leave? Or will it be the third? I thought the first (can't remember the A/C #), had already found a home in Russia?
 
solarflyer22
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RE: CO 762. Another Exits Fleet

Tue Sep 13, 2011 2:58 pm

Maybe convert them to freighters. How much worse is the CASM of a 767-200 vs whatever is replacing them (787 perhaps)? Seems like you can get a great plane for dirt cheap. Maybe convert them to KC-45s?
 
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dutchflyboi
Posts: 93
Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 5:56 pm

RE: CO 762. Another Exits Fleet

Tue Sep 13, 2011 3:06 pm

Quoting EXCOASA1982 (Reply 22):
Not to hijack the thread, but when did the 2nd EWR-FRA get announced? Am I completely out of the loop? Thanks.

It starts January 2nd 2012.
CO118 EWR1650 – 0655+1FRA 752 D
CO050 EWR1925 – 0915+1FRA 777 D

CO119 FRA0845 – 1200EWR 752 D
CO051 FRA1105 – 1351EWR 777 D
 
abibus
Posts: 50
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RE: CO 762. Another Exits Fleet

Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:40 pm

Aeromexico Needs urgent Planes the 762 they have are very old and they Need more capacity so can am buy or lease them? Many pilots told me that am is like Crazy Looping for Planes and replace some of the old 767
 
washingtonian
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Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2010 5:56 pm

RE: CO 762. Another Exits Fleet

Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:51 pm

Quoting dutchflyboi (Reply 25):
It starts January 2nd 2012.

PMUA or PMCO 777?
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: CO 762. Another Exits Fleet

Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:58 pm

PMCO. CO50 would be a Continental operated flight (1-99)

NS
 
United1
Posts: 4184
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:21 am

RE: CO 762. Another Exits Fleet

Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:59 pm

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 27):
PMUA or PMCO 777?

PMCO
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
AADC10
Posts: 1511
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2004 7:40 am

RE: CO 762. Another Exits Fleet

Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:00 pm

Quoting NASCARNUT (Reply 18):
Wouldn't they have been better off using this aircraft to operate the 2nd EWR-FRA flight just released. With the Mail and freight volumes going into and out of FRA, couldn't UA/CO make better use of the 762 vs a 757 anc capture both the premium customers along with the cargo/mail

762s and 767s in general are not particularly good cargo carriers because they cannot carry LD-3s side by side, they use non-standard LD-2s. The CO 777 or the LH aircraft are better for cargo. UA also has 772s and sometimes 744s between ORD/IAD and FRA. UA is not going to keep the inefficient 762s around just for cargo. They clearly plan to make due with the current widebody fleet (less the 762s) until the 787s arrive. Even then, unless business is really booming, international capacity will grow slowly and domestic will continue to shrink.
 
codc10
Posts: 2896
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

RE: CO 762. Another Exits Fleet

Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:20 pm

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 27):
PMUA or PMCO 777?

CO50/51 is the existing daily roundtrip, CO118/119 is the new 757 service. It looks like one of the LH frequencies drops out for the winter (returns for the summer), but the schedules may still be in flux.
 
tommy767
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Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:18 pm

RE: CO 762. Another Exits Fleet

Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:24 pm

Quoting dutchflyboi (Reply 25):

It starts January 2nd 2012.
CO118 EWR1650 – 0655+1FRA 752 D
CO050 EWR1925 – 0915+1FRA 777 D

CO119 FRA0845 – 1200EWR 752 D
CO051 FRA1105 – 1351EWR 777 D

UGH, really a 757 on EWR-FRA? I never thought this was happen as both EWR and FRA are star hubs.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
gigneil
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RE: CO 762. Another Exits Fleet

Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:52 pm

Perfectly good product in both cabins, and plenty of capacity. What's wrong with it?

NS
 
n7371f
Posts: 1836
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RE: CO 762. Another Exits Fleet

Tue Sep 13, 2011 9:03 pm

Quoting robo65 (Reply 19):
A//C 157 the newest to exit shows parked IAH preparing exit to lease. So it appears A/C 157 has already found a new home.

157 is the only 767-200 in the fleet that is leased, instead of owned. So I'll guess it's going back to the lessor, unless CO has a sub-lease deal which I would doubt.
 
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calpsafltskeds
Posts: 3225
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:29 am

RE: CO 762. Another Exits Fleet

Tue Sep 13, 2011 9:17 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 32):
UGH, really a 757 on EWR-FRA? I never thought this was happen as both EWR and FRA are star hubs.
Quoting gigneil (Reply 33):
Perfectly good product in both cabins, and plenty of capacity. What's wrong with it?

Interesting since EWR-FRA is only 104 nm shorter than EWR-TXL, which has been flown with 767s in the winter due to headwinds. The service is to start in January.
One thing this does is offer flat beds on both roundtrips. Unless PMUA equipment were used, a mix of 764s and 762s would not have flat beds.
 
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FlyCaledonian
Posts: 1984
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RE: CO 762. Another Exits Fleet

Tue Sep 13, 2011 9:27 pm

So apart from 155 and 157, which was the third 762 to leave?
Let's Go British Caledonian!
 
MCOflyer
Posts: 7088
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 5:51 am

RE: CO 762. Another Exits Fleet

Tue Sep 13, 2011 9:54 pm

Which carriers are these a/c going too??

KH
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
kfitz
Posts: 140
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:47 am

RE: CO 762. Another Exits Fleet

Tue Sep 13, 2011 10:29 pm

Quoting gigneil (Reply 33):

1. Lack of premium seats, less upgrade chance, angry elites
2. One aisle, longer boarding, deplane
3. slower, more adept to unscheduled fuel stops due to headwinds (the German authority actually fined CO over their tatl 757s and their constant fuel stops as false advertising of a nonstop flight)
4. ELR seats few and far between, no Economy plus
5. Hard(er) E seats
6. 757 BF seats have worse length than 777 for anyone over 6'
7. Its a 757

[Edited 2011-09-13 15:30:31]
 
robo65
Topic Author
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 4:53 am

RE: CO 762. Another Exits Fleet

Tue Sep 13, 2011 10:42 pm

Quoting akelley728 (Reply 23):
Was A/C 155 the first the leave? Or will it be the third? I thought the first (can't remember the A/C #), had already found a home in Russia?

A/C 155 was the first to leave and is parked at GYR.

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 36):
So apart from 155 and 157, which was the third 762 to leave?

A/C 155 and 157 are the only two to leave. Fleet originally consisted of 10 frames which is now down to 8.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: CO 762. Another Exits Fleet

Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:03 pm

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 35):
One thing this does is offer flat beds on both roundtrips. Unless PMUA equipment were used, a mix of 764s and 762s would not have flat beds.

Correct.

Quoting kfitz (Reply 38):
5. Hard(er) E seats

That would be true of any CO equipment period. Come come now, you know better. This is an extra segment - i.e. a good thing.

NS
 
codc10
Posts: 2896
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

RE: CO 762. Another Exits Fleet

Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:58 am

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 32):

UGH, really a 757 on EWR-FRA? I never thought this was happen as both EWR and FRA are star hubs.
Quoting kfitz (Reply 38):

1. Lack of premium seats, less upgrade chance, angry elites
2. One aisle, longer boarding, deplane
3. slower, more adept to unscheduled fuel stops due to headwinds (the German authority actually fined CO over their tatl 757s and their constant fuel stops as false advertising of a nonstop flight)
4. ELR seats few and far between, no Economy plus
5. Hard(er) E seats
6. 757 BF seats have worse length than 777 for anyone over 6'
7. Its a 757

If you have a problem with the 757 flight, just wait 55 minutes for the LH 747, 2h45m for the CO 777, or 5h20m for the LH A340. This is an all-new frequency, not a replacement of any capacity.
 
sulley
Posts: 395
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 6:55 pm

RE: CO 762. Another Exits Fleet

Wed Sep 14, 2011 12:26 pm

Exactly. I would also like to add once again that the 752 does not have the uncomfortable Koito seats in Y. They are manufactured by BE Aerospace and are very similar to the seats on PMUA widebodies.
In thrust we trust!
 
John
Posts: 1257
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 1999 10:47 am

RE: CO 762. Another Exits Fleet

Wed Sep 14, 2011 12:34 pm

Surprised US Airways didn't jump on these. US could certainly use more widebody lift, at least temporarily, until A330-200 deliveries start back up in 2013. Since CO's 762ER fleet is 10 years younger or better, perhaps US would be able to at least, accelerate retirement of their oldest airframes. CO's 762ER have improved performance and range. as well.
 
tommy767
Posts: 4658
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:18 pm

RE: CO 762. Another Exits Fleet

Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:32 pm

Quoting kfitz (Reply 38):
3. slower, more adept to unscheduled fuel stops due to headwinds (the German authority actually fined CO over their tatl 757s and their constant fuel stops as false advertising of a nonstop flight)

That's the big one. I have no idea why CO would fly the 757 during the winter to FRA when they purposely took the 757 off TXL and made it a 762.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
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STT757
Posts: 14146
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: CO 762. Another Exits Fleet

Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:40 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 44):
I have no idea why CO would fly the 757 during the winter to FRA when they purposely took the 757 off TXL and made it a 762.

TXL was a unique situation. Stuttgart and Hamburg, both 757s, are operating normally from EWR during the Winter.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
brilondon
Posts: 3162
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:56 am

RE: CO 762. Another Exits Fleet

Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:41 pm

Quoting kfitz (Reply 38):
Its a 757

What is wrong with a 757? I like that aircraft and so does apparently a number other airlines. DL, AA, CO/UA, and a number of charter airlines.
Rush forever Closer To My Heart
 
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calpsafltskeds
Posts: 3225
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:29 am

RE: CO 762. Another Exits Fleet

Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:49 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 45):
TXL was a unique situation. Stuttgart and Hamburg, both 757s, are operating normally from EWR during the Winter.

What's different with TXL. It has a shorter runway than STR, HAM and FRA, but wouldn't a 9800 ft runway at 112 above Sea Level allow a full weight takeoff? Or does the 38 nm difference of TXL vs. STR make a huge difference. TXL is 94 nm farther than FRA.
 
kfitz
Posts: 140
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:47 am

RE: CO 762. Another Exits Fleet

Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:48 pm

the 757 was never designed to perform intl. tatl missions. CO has consistently flown them to their absolute limits over the Atlantic, to the point of having to stop for fuel.

As far as the seats, its not just the Kyoto seats which are hard - its also the standard CO seat. Kyoto's are even worse, however.
 
codc10
Posts: 2896
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

RE: CO 762. Another Exits Fleet

Wed Sep 14, 2011 6:03 pm

Quoting kfitz (Reply 48):

the 757 was never designed to perform intl. tatl missions. CO has consistently flown them to their absolute limits over the Atlantic, to the point of having to stop for fuel.

I think the engineers at Boeing would like to hear that one. The airplane has transatlantic range and is rated for ETOPS... that's not by accident. Fuel stops are down considerably as best practices for improving fuel efficiency and individual ship dispatching have evolved. Furthermore, diversions for fuel generally only occur during extreme periods of irregular operations, such that most other flights are also negatively impacted.

Additionally, your assertion that CO is flying the airplanes "to the absolute limits" is patently false. Every single flight is conducted well within prescribed safety margins, and if fuel stops are required, the flights never, ever operate outside of these margins.

Finally, E+ is coming to these birds in a few months. I'm supremely confident you'll continue to find plenty of things to whine about, though.

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