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enilria
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AA Lowers Boom On VX: $99RT DFW-LAX/SFO

Thu Sep 15, 2011 5:53 pm

Not much else to say, clearly directed at VX. AA has been pretty lazy about defending its turf lately. This is a U-turn.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/110915/da68967.html?.v=1
 
RamblinMan
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RE: AA Lowers Boom On VX: $99RT DFW-LAX/SFO

Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:01 pm

Must be purchased 21 days out, only valid through 10/27... so basically they're doing one month of this. Maybe not a spectacular response, but definitely more than AA has been doing lately.

Anybody need a mileage run? That would be about 5c/mile, not too shabby.
 
commavia
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RE: AA Lowers Boom On VX: $99RT DFW-LAX/SFO

Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:11 pm

I doubt this is really going to harm VX all that much, but certainly is a more material response from AA than usual of late. The thing I found most interesting and unusual about this was that this $49.50 one-way fare was available on virtually every single flight throughout the week during that period - usually the fare sales are more of a Tuesday/Wednesday/Saturday sort of thing. One thing's for sure: load factors DFW-LAX are going to jump on October!
 
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LAXintl
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RE: AA Lowers Boom On VX: $99RT DFW-LAX/SFO

Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:15 pm

Well the $99 one-way fares and double-miles (including double elite qualifications) for the entire summer was not enough I guess for AA.

Obviously VX is effecting AA at DFW, and AA trying to shore up its clients from defecting, while employing a scorched earth policy.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
jacobin777
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RE: AA Lowers Boom On VX: $99RT DFW-LAX/SFO

Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:16 pm

Quoting RamblinMan (Reply 1):
Must be purchased 21 days out, only valid through 10/27... so basically they're doing one month of this. Maybe not a spectacular response, but definitely more than AA has been doing lately.

Anybody need a mileage run? That would be about 5c/mile, not too shabby.
Quoting commavia (Reply 2):
I doubt this is really going to harm VX all that much, but certainly is a more material response from AA than usual of late. The thing I found most interesting and unusual about this was that this $49.50 one-way fare was available on virtually every single flight throughout the week during that period - usually the fare sales are more of a Tuesday/Wednesday/Saturday sort of thing. One thing's for sure: load factors DFW-LAX are going to jump on October!

This is going to help me re-qualify as an AA Platinum for the 7th straight year..  
"Up the Irons!"
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: AA Lowers Boom On VX: $99RT DFW-LAX/SFO

Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:20 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 4):
This is going to help me re-qualify as an AA Platinum for the 7th straight year..

Except as much as I beg, you wont ever come out to visit!

Thanks for coming to my wedding though!  
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
jacobin777
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RE: AA Lowers Boom On VX: $99RT DFW-LAX/SFO

Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:33 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 5):
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 4):
This is going to help me re-qualify as an AA Platinum for the 7th straight year..

Except as much as I beg, you wont ever come out to visit!

Thanks for coming to my wedding though!

Hahaha...  

Yah, thanks for inviting us, Mrs. Jacobin777 and I had a blast!

These are about 60-75 minute turn-arounds. I'm not even taking a day off from work.

Don't worry, I'm working on DFW for a visit.... 
"Up the Irons!"
 
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enilria
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RE: AA Lowers Boom On VX: $99RT DFW-LAX/SFO

Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:40 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 2):

I doubt this is really going to harm VX all that much, but certainly is a more material response from AA than usual of late. The thing I found most interesting and unusual about this was that this $49.50 one-way fare was available on virtually every single flight throughout the week during that period - usually the fare sales are more of a Tuesday/Wednesday/Saturday sort of thing. One thing's for sure: load factors DFW-LAX are going to jump on October!

I think it hurts VX a lot in the DFW point-of-sale. Why not fly on the hometown carrier for that price? I suspected it was not heavily inventory restricted if they announced it in a release.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):
Obviously VX is effecting AA at DFW, and AA trying to shore up its clients from defecting, while employing a scorched earth policy.

$49 in this era is scorched. That won't even cover fuel.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 4):
This is going to help me re-qualify as an AA Platinum for the 7th straight year..

Congrats
 
blueflyer
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RE: AA Lowers Boom On VX: $99RT DFW-LAX/SFO

Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:43 pm

Since the arrival of VX into the DFW market, AA has also significantly dropped its last-minute fares, not just to LAX and SFO, but to cities that can only be reached with a connection on VX as well.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: AA Lowers Boom On VX: $99RT DFW-LAX/SFO

Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:48 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 7):
Why not fly on the hometown carrier for that price?

To experience VX' new super-dee-duper IFE?
I don't take responsibility at all
 
LAXtoATL
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RE: AA Lowers Boom On VX: $99RT DFW-LAX/SFO

Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:00 pm

Contrary to the thread title, I think this is more of a case that VX has already lowered the boom on AA for them to take this action*. They already hadannounced a fare sale and increased miles when VX launched service to DFW so apparently not only has VX been very successful in DFW, but AA's initial response was not very effective. AA is now willing to lose money on the route to prevent further growth by VX?


* Certainly VX cannot cause AA any serious harm considering the scope of their respective operations, however on these two routes its seems that VX with its limited schedule has certainly caused AA a lot pain.
 
AADC10
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RE: AA Lowers Boom On VX: $99RT DFW-LAX/SFO

Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:00 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):
Obviously VX is effecting AA at DFW, and AA trying to shore up its clients from defecting, while employing a scorched earth policy.

In any other business, that would be considered predatory pricing and subject to anti-trust rules but they have never been applied to airlines.
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: AA Lowers Boom On VX: $99RT DFW-LAX/SFO

Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:06 pm

Hmm...saw this on flyer talk and did some searching to not much luck, but it would require a trip down from ORD for me to visit the 'rentals back in DFW (would love to take my parents out to Cali if I had the vaca time)...

However, I wonder if VX has similiarly impacted AA/UA on the ORD-SFO/LAX routes...they were offering the same DEQM promotion as from DFW, so I went on a few trips and an MR to CA.
 
neutronstar73
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RE: AA Lowers Boom On VX: $99RT DFW-LAX/SFO

Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:27 pm

Virgin America won't even feel it. American's inflight experience doesn't have a prayer of competing against VX. Virgin will not be losing sleep over this at all. Who would chose to fly on AA when you can get far better treatment and amenities on Virgin? I know I wouldn't.
 
RamblinMan
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RE: AA Lowers Boom On VX: $99RT DFW-LAX/SFO

Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:38 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 7):
Why not fly on the hometown carrier for that price?

Uhh... cause VX service is waaaaay better. They don't seem to be bothering with matching AA's price, at least not yet. Who cares if it's a "hometown carrier"... if it sucks, it sucks, and despite the overwhelming sentiment on this site that the unwashed masses will always choose the lowest price, I think it says something that AA has to offer money-losing fares in an attempt to win back those who jumped ship when VX came to town.

Quoting enilria (Reply 7):
I suspected it was not heavily inventory restricted if they announced it in a release.

Looks like the sale fares are selling out quickly to SFO, LAX is a bit easier.
 
crosswinds21
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RE: AA Lowers Boom On VX: $99RT DFW-LAX/SFO

Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:54 pm

Quoting neutronstar73 (Reply 13):
Virgin America won't even feel it. American's inflight experience doesn't have a prayer of competing against VX. Virgin will not be losing sleep over this at all. Who would chose to fly on AA when you can get far better treatment and amenities on Virgin? I know I wouldn't.

If AA was cheaper and all I needed to do was to get from Point A to Point B, I would. And so would a lot of other people. Why would I pay even $10 extra just so that I can get mood lighting and order food at my seat, all on a 2-3 hour flight? Besides, I would rather get AA miles anyway.
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: AA Lowers Boom On VX: $99RT DFW-LAX/SFO

Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:14 pm

Quoting crosswinds21 (Reply 15):
If AA was cheaper and all I needed to do was to get from Point A to Point B, I would. And so would a lot of other people.

Then again, there are plenty of people who ARE willing to pay $10 extra to fly on a far superior product.

Assuming this post...

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):
Well the $99 one-way fares and double-miles (including double elite qualifications) for the entire summer was not enough I guess for AA.


...holds to be true, then this rather risky move for conservative AA could be signs that LCCs/OALs can compete effectively against AA's entrenched network at DFW, even when it offers perks/incentives on a limited promotional period basis.

To be truthful, the premium product on domestic UA and AA flights pale in comparison to what one can get on VX. I've seen the TRs on VX and the service looks unreal. After experiencing UA F on LAXORD this summer, it was nothing to write home about. The catering was more or less what I would have received 10 years ago in Y for free, except served in fine china and with free alcohol.

Ideally, I'd love to see more incumbents, such as B6, take on the monopolies AA holds on routes like DFW-NYC/BOS.
 
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enilria
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RE: AA Lowers Boom On VX: $99RT DFW-LAX/SFO

Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:19 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 9):
Quoting enilria (Reply 7):
Why not fly on the hometown carrier for that price?

To experience VX' new super-dee-duper IFE?

They do have a great system, BUT AA Advantage is a little more powerful. LOL

Quoting LAXtoATL (Reply 10):
Contrary to the thread title, I think this is more of a case that VX has already lowered the boom on AA for them to take this action*.

That's fair. VX lowered fares first. AA can do the same...

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 11):
In any other business, that would be considered predatory pricing and subject to anti-trust rules but they have never been applied to airlines.

...as long as its not below cost and this is clearly below cost.

Quoting neutronstar73 (Reply 13):

Virgin America won't even feel it.

They will. $49 is awful. AA will feel it too.

Quoting RamblinMan (Reply 14):
Uhh... cause VX service is waaaaay better.

Yes, but as I said AA Advantage is powerful. How many people in this thread have already posted they are buying AA tickets? How many for VX?

Quoting RamblinMan (Reply 14):
Looks like the sale fares are selling out quickly to SFO, LAX is a bit easier.

Not surprising. It's less than the taxi to the airport. LOL
 
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mariner
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RE: AA Lowers Boom On VX: $99RT DFW-LAX/SFO

Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:22 pm

Quoting neutronstar73 (Reply 13):
Virgin America won't even feel it. American's inflight experience doesn't have a prayer of competing against VX. Virgin will not be losing sleep over this at all.

More practically, I would guess that the "help" that Virgin America is getting from DFW - $375,000 pus no airport fees for a year - will cushion this.

It pales compared with the $3 million "help" Qantas is getting from DFW for SYD, of course.  

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
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ERJ170
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RE: AA Lowers Boom On VX: $99RT DFW-LAX/SFO

Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:30 pm

IMO, AA needs to do this. Yes, they have some loyat customers at DFW as it is one of their mega-hubs.. but the VX experience is 1000 times better than the AA experience. The service, the ambiance, the options, the ride (although it is in a whiny A320) is soooo much nicer.. AA really didn't have a choice but to try to beat them one of the few ways they can and that is a junk price offer.. Good luck, AA.
Aiming High and going far..
 
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LAXintl
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RE: AA Lowers Boom On VX: $99RT DFW-LAX/SFO

Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:31 pm

For fun VX should match the fare and extend the time period for the entire winter which would really put AA in the zinger.

AA has tons more inventory on many more flights which could be tied up with this craziness.

Ultimately it's seems like folks like VX and NK are making themselves well noticed in DFW.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
RamblinMan
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RE: AA Lowers Boom On VX: $99RT DFW-LAX/SFO

Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:32 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 17):
Yes, but as I said AA Advantage is powerful. How many people in this thread have already posted they are buying AA tickets? How many for VX?

The people who have so posted in this thread are AAdvantage-hounds making use of the best mileage-run opportunity to come along in a while. VX has not matched this ridiculous price. Perhaps they don't need to.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: AA Lowers Boom On VX: $99RT DFW-LAX/SFO

Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:44 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 17):
...as long as its not below cost and this is clearly below cost.

Arguably everything VX sells is below cost
I don't take responsibility at all
 
Super80DFW
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RE: AA Lowers Boom On VX: $99RT DFW-LAX/SFO

Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:51 pm

Well I just purchased my DFW-SFO-DFW daytrip! Booked my AA flights for less than half of what VX is charging for the same day!
 
hiflyer
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RE: AA Lowers Boom On VX: $99RT DFW-LAX/SFO

Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:57 pm

Just as majors have done with other 'startups' (UA vs Indy Air for instance) it is all about who has the deeper pockets. Obviously AMR thinks a short period will impact VX adversely...otherwise why do it? With Virgin Atlantic close to joining an alliance, (and pretty much sure it is not OneWorld..grin,) why not see how much more Sir Richard will cough up to keep this offspring viable? 5 years of not one profitable quarter and an increasing CASM for 1/4 2011 does a target make.

http://www.virginamerica.com/press-r...uarter-2011-Financial-Results.html
 
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par13del
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RE: AA Lowers Boom On VX: $99RT DFW-LAX/SFO

Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:02 pm

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 8):
Since the arrival of VX into the DFW market, AA has also significantly dropped its last-minute fares, not just to LAX and SFO, but to cities that can only be reached with a connection on VX as well.

An item often overlooked when referring to business travellers and folks in need of emergency travel, one of the benefits that LCC's bring to the market place.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 16):
Then again, there are plenty of people who ARE willing to pay $10 extra to fly on a far superior product.

Hopefully, these are not the same folk who whine about baggage fees, change fees, fuel surcharges, etc. etc. etc.

I can see some folks actually jumping on this with the mindset that they are finally getting something back, or better yet, want to see what's so great about travelling with carry on only. Fare is certainely low enough for a day trip just for the fun of it.
Funny thing, the cost of AA processing a change in reservation is greater that the cost of actually flying a pax, go figure  
 
LAXtoATL
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RE: AA Lowers Boom On VX: $99RT DFW-LAX/SFO

Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:52 pm

Quoting hiflyer (Reply 24):
Obviously AMR thinks a short period will impact VX adversely...otherwise why do it?

This is the question I have. What is the purpose of doing this for such a short period? It will not impact VX, they will ride it out its just one month. This action will hurt AA more than VX as AA offers so many more flights on these routes than VX. Then after that month those customers that were lured by AA's price will deflect even faster after the shock of the fare jumping. When you see a fare jump more than 100% most people's instinct is to look elsewhere (even if elsewhere is the same price because they fell like they are being hosed if the business can charge $99 and raise their price to $200). The only thing I can see making since is that AA wants to test the waters for a month and see what the results are and possibly extend it before the month is over, I just don't see what one month will accomplish. I understood why AA initially lowered their fares and offered bonus miles, I just don't see what this is really suppose to accomplish as one month on two routes is not going to make much of a difference and there will be little to no carry-over effect. (The only thing I can think of is that AA got wind of VX increasing capacity on these routes and is sending them a message that they will bleed before they relinquish dominance on these routes. That said, with VX having so many planes on order and they must find routes to put them on I don't see how that tactic will really work - if I'm VX I am going to stick to the markets that fit my model and let the others worry about the competition and if I had to pick my battles I much rather battle AA right now than DL or UA)
 
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LAXintl
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RE: AA Lowers Boom On VX: $99RT DFW-LAX/SFO

Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:12 pm

Per Abby Lunardini Virgin America's spokesperson:

"It is great to see some competition in markets that did not have much before we started flying -- it is long overdue and a good thing for DFW travelers.

With new planes, touch-screen TVs, WiFi and power outlets at every seat, we have a very different product and we've seen that once people try us they like us.

Our 'Switch to Virgin America' campaign is really all about that difference...asking travelers to 'approximate' what they get for all those past frequent flyer miles, as opposed to what they get onboard Virgin America right out of the gate - has clearly struck a chord."
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
RamblinMan
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RE: AA Lowers Boom On VX: $99RT DFW-LAX/SFO

Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:17 pm

Quoting par13del (Reply 25):
Hopefully, these are not the same folk who whine about baggage fees, change fees, fuel surcharges, etc. etc. etc.

Why not?
I often pay extra to fly WN... in no small part because their product includes luggage and changes for no additional charge.
 
Elevated
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RE: AA Lowers Boom On VX: $99RT DFW-LAX/SFO

Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:22 pm

Quoting LAXtoATL (Reply 10):
ontrary to the thread title, I think this is more of a case that VX has already lowered the boom on AA for them to take this action*. They already hadannounced a fare sale and increased miles when VX launched service to DFW so apparently not only has VX been very successful in DFW, but AA's initial response was not very effective. AA is now willing to lose money on the route to prevent further growth by VX?


* Certainly VX cannot cause AA any serious harm considering the scope of their respective operations, however on these two routes its seems that VX with its limited schedule has certainly caused AA a lot pain.

Bingo.

Quoting neutronstar73 (Reply 13):
Virgin America won't even feel it. American's inflight experience doesn't have a prayer of competing against VX. Virgin will not be losing sleep over this at all. Who would chose to fly on AA when you can get far better treatment and amenities on Virgin? I know I wouldn't.

Exactly.

Our planes are filled with new customers each flight, along with winning over many WN loyals. They are amazed at our product and service. I cannot tell you how many times I get, "I will never fly AA again" or "I don't care how many miles I have, never going back to AA." It's incredible in the DFW market and ORD (especially) the tremendous positive response. 99% is the population isn't the fan boys of Dinosaur Airlines XYZ at A.net despite popular rumor here.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 20):
For fun VX should match the fare and extend the time period for the entire winter which would really put AA in the zinger.

Expect just that.

Quoting hiflyer (Reply 24):
Obviously AMR thinks a short period will impact VX adversely...otherwise why do it?

American is desperate (when were they last profitable by the way?) and they feel it and they are the ones looking short term at "sale" fares. This is a short lived flame on Americans' part. Some old business once over.
 
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par13del
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RE: AA Lowers Boom On VX: $99RT DFW-LAX/SFO

Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:31 pm

Quoting LAXtoATL (Reply 26):
This is the question I have. What is the purpose of doing this for such a short period?

What would it do to their share values and reviews by financial houses if they announced this fare sale for an extended period of time, all I can see is negative financial press.
However, if they do so for a short period, they can review the data and always commence another period of sales, since they are the only ones privy to the actual nunbers, it would be difficult to justify the claim that they are just dumpiing to run VX off the route.
 
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BNE
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RE: AA Lowers Boom On VX: $99RT DFW-LAX/SFO

Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:46 pm

Quoting neutronstar73 (Reply 13):
Virgin America won't even feel it. American's inflight experience doesn't have a prayer of competing against VX. Virgin will not be losing sleep over this at all. Who would chose to fly on AA when you can get far better treatment and amenities on Virgin? I know I wouldn't.

Seems like a few of us would choose to fly AA just for the miles.
Why fly non stop when you can connect
 
surfdog75
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RE: AA Lowers Boom On VX: $99RT DFW-LAX/SFO

Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:03 pm

I think it would be fun to see the other carriers defend their turf vigorously at every turn. If you're going to start a company, pay substandard wages, have substandard work rules to try and undercut established carriers who have built the current airtraffic system, you should be prepared for the defense. I actually wonder why established companies don't do more to make life hard on new competition.
 
Kleiner
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RE: AA Lowers Boom On VX: $99RT DFW-LAX/SFO

Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:16 pm

It's like saying free tickets for life, on a dirty bus with a crotchety bus driver. People will pay more to get treated like human beings.
 
LAXtoATL
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RE: AA Lowers Boom On VX: $99RT DFW-LAX/SFO

Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:18 pm

Quoting par13del (Reply 30):
What would it do to their share values and reviews by financial houses if they announced this fare sale for an extended period of time

Nothing its just two routes. American is too big for two routes to make or break them.

And AA certainly doesn't care what analyst and financial houses have to say anyway, they have been yelling for AA to do something different for at least the pass 8 quarters and AA continues down the same path and shrugs of the analysts questions and comments. And besides it is what is, they aren't gonna fool the analyst that follow the industry and or the company with smoke and mirrors - they see AA's actions no matter how big or small or for how long they pursue a certain strategy. For even a month, I assume that you will here an analyst or two that berates AA's course of action here as they are ignoring their short-term financial performance in order to hold onto market-share. While two routes won't have a meaningful effect on the overall financial picture I think it will be looked at as a sign that management is steadfast with their same old playbook and not willing to adapt to the new environment they are operating in.
 
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gdg9
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RE: AA Lowers Boom On VX: $99RT DFW-LAX/SFO

Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:29 pm

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 16):
After experiencing UA F on LAXORD this summer, it was nothing to write home about. The catering was more or less what I would have received 10 years ago in Y for free, except served in fine china and with free alcohol.

Spot on. I've been fortunate to be upgraded several times in the past few months to UA F... your comment is exactly right. The last time I flew AA Y, a few months ago, I didn't even get peanuts. Southwest at least gave me some pretzels.
@dfwtower
 
commavia
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RE: AA Lowers Boom On VX: $99RT DFW-LAX/SFO

Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:45 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 7):
Why not fly on the hometown carrier for that price?
Quoting RamblinMan (Reply 14):
Uhh... cause VX service is waaaaay better. They don't seem to be bothering with matching AA's price, at least not yet. Who cares if it's a "hometown carrier"... if it sucks, it sucks

It's all about the overall value proposition.

For some customers, VX is perfect, for others, AA is. VX definitely offers an overall better product (although I dispute that AA simply "sucks" as is often repeated here on A.net) and has an extremely attractive, innovative, fresh approach to air travel. They also typically have relatively low fares.

However, that being said, VX flies to a grand total of 15 cities - and only 2 nonstop from DFW. For people - especially DFW-originating - who require frequent flies, to lots of destinations around the country and/or the world, and for whom loyalty programs and global connectivity are important, VX's excellent service doesn't compensate for its limited reach.

Like with so many things, it's not a question of better or worse, right or wrong - merely different.

Quoting Elevated (Reply 29):
Our planes are filled with new customers each flight, along with winning over many WN loyals. They are amazed at our product and service. I cannot tell you how many times I get, "I will never fly AA again" or "I don't care how many miles I have, never going back to AA." It's incredible in the DFW market and ORD (especially) the tremendous positive response. 99% is the population isn't the fan boys of Dinosaur Airlines XYZ at A.net despite popular rumor here.

Having flown on VX several times (in F and Y), I agree that the product and service are exceptional - definitely the best hard and soft product I've ever experienced on a domestic U.S. flight hands down.

My personal main issue is, again, the scope of that network, which is fairly limited for a person like me who flies mostly out of DFW, and all over the country/world.

I also still have questions about the long-term growth potential, financial longevity and economic sustainability of that exceptional product/service that VX offers, at the price VX offers it, over the network VX serves.
 
goldenstate
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RE: AA Lowers Boom On VX: $99RT DFW-LAX/SFO

Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:01 am

Quoting Elevated (Reply 29):
American is desperate (when were they last profitable by the way?) and they feel it and they are the ones looking short term at "sale" fares. This is a short lived flame on Americans' part. Some old business once over.

Sorry, when was Virgin America's last profitable year?

Quoting Elevated (Reply 29):
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 20):
For fun VX should match the fare and extend the time period for the entire winter which would really put AA in the zinger.

Expect just that.

That would suggest that VX is unable to drive a revenue premium in DFW-California.
 
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RE: AA Lowers Boom On VX: $99RT DFW-LAX/SFO

Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:11 am

Quoting commavia (Reply 36):
Having flown on VX several times (in F and Y), I agree that the product and service are exceptional - definitely the best hard and soft product I've ever experienced on a domestic U.S. flight hands down.

My personal main issue is, again, the scope of that network, which is fairly limited for a person like me who flies mostly out of DFW, and all over the country/world.

I also still have questions about the long-term growth potential, financial longevity and economic sustainability of that exceptional product/service that VX offers, at the price VX offers it, over the network VX serves.

I appreciate you feedback and comments.

Our original master plan was (and still is on target since 2007) is fly to all the major cities and then connect the dots and then go deep international. I wont give the potential continent(s) away just yet!

Yes, we have expanded slower as others aspire to point out here in particular, but we have NOT diverted around our initial mast plan; despite the continuous talk about how slow we've grown in just 5 years in countless other threads. It costs lots and lots of money to open new stations, hire literally thousands of new employees and take on new planes. It's all carefully calculated as we continue to be innovating with our on-board product and refreshing at the same time we grow. Many people don't realize this. There are industry-leading things to come in our planes that isn't public yet.

We are getting lots if new planes in the beginning of 2012 all at once in the first couple of months and are going to hire 400 new flight attendants by spring. We are also getting a couple more planes by the end of 2011. Look for big expansion for DFW down the road. Obvious routes for example would look like: DFW-ORD, DFW-SEA, SAN and DFW-JFK, IAD. FLL, ORD, etc. as well as future cities that haven't been released. We are expected to announce one more U.S. city this year.
 
jacobin777
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RE: AA Lowers Boom On VX: $99RT DFW-LAX/SFO

Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:15 am

Quoting enilria (Reply 7):
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 4):
This is going to help me re-qualify as an AA Platinum for the 7th straight year..

Congrats

Sometimes I'm not so sure if its worth it....really my goal is to become have lifetime status on AA. From there I can decide then.

Quoting enilria (Reply 17):

Quoting RamblinMan (Reply 14):
Looks like the sale fares are selling out quickly to SFO, LAX is a bit easier.

Not surprising. It's less than the taxi to the airport. LOL

  

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 19):
IMO, AA needs to do this. Yes, they have some loyat customers at DFW as it is one of their mega-hubs.. but the VX experience is 1000 times better than the AA experience. The service, the ambiance, the options, the ride (although it is in a whiny A320) is soooo much nicer.. AA really didn't have a choice but to try to beat them one of the few ways they can and that is a junk price offer.. Good luck, AA.

To be fair, AA flies a number of their B738's on the route and those planes are perfectly fine. I'm not so sure if they have WiFi however. Now the B752's....hmmm...  

Quoting Kleiner (Reply 33):
It's like saying free tickets for life, on a dirty bus with a crotchety bus driver. People will pay more to get treated like human beings.

While the service isn't VX, there are other variables which come into play. Also, as I mentioned above, its not as if they are flying old dingy planes.
"Up the Irons!"
 
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RE: AA Lowers Boom On VX: $99RT DFW-LAX/SFO

Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:18 am

Quoting goldenstate (Reply 37):
Sorry, when was Virgin America's last profitable year?

Don't turn my question around and re-spin it. Is that your answer to my original question? American is the one slashing ticket prices and we aren't. That says something right there at this stage. Enough said.

Quoting goldenstate (Reply 37):
That would suggest that VX is unable to drive a revenue premium in DFW-California.

That would suggest pure speculation without the hard numbers to verify just that. Until then...
 
FreequentFlier
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RE: AA Lowers Boom On VX: $99RT DFW-LAX/SFO

Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:36 am

Quoting goldenstate (Reply 37):

Sorry, when was Virgin America's last profitable year?

Yeah no kidding. An awful lot of brash talk for an airline that has never made a dime...ever.

Quoting Elevated (Reply 38):
Look for big expansion for DFW down the road. Obvious routes for example would look like: DFW-ORD, DFW-SEA, SAN and DFW-JFK, IAD. FLL, ORD, etc. as well as future cities that haven't been released. We are expected to announce one more U.S. city this year.

If true, that is interesting news, but probably not something you should be sharing on a public forum prior to implementation.
 
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seabosdca
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RE: AA Lowers Boom On VX: $99RT DFW-LAX/SFO

Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:45 am

Quoting goldenstate (Reply 37):
Sorry, when was Virgin America's last profitable year?

  

Big plans without any assurance of a way to pay for them.

I hope VX succeeds, but I think it would take the business equivalent of cold fusion to make it happen.
 
PI767
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RE: AA Lowers Boom On VX: $99RT DFW-LAX/SFO

Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:59 am

As a DFW resident (and an airline employee who DOES purchase tickets when it is simply not worth the hassle and headache of flying NRSA)....I will say this:

If AA's fare is lower or the same as Virgin America, I am going to fly American.

I wonder if the non-DFW residents who post on anet have any idea of the power that American and, even more so, AAdvantage plays into DFW residents picking a flight.

I have an AAdvantage account (because I DO buy tickets) and if I see that AA's fares are lower then Virgin's.......I am going to fly AA. Heck, if I see that the fares are the same or within $50, I am going to choose AA. Why? Because of AAdvantage. If AA and Virgin are offering the exact same fare between DFW and LAX/SFO.....I am not going to think of cool mood-lighting and meals on demand.... I am going to think of how many AAdvantage miles I am going to earn for $49 each way and how instead of being able to earn miles on Virgin so I can fly DFW-LAX-SEA or DFW-LAX-SFO.... I am going to think of the fact that I can earn AAdvantage miles to SO MANY more cities. And don't even think I am talking about exotic foreign destinations.....I am talking about being able to use my AAdvantage miles to go see my family in Pittsburgh. Where can Virgin take me from DFW on award tickets? (Do they even have a frequent flyer program? I don't know.) Maybe I can go to LAX or SEA or LAS or SAN on Virgin America.....but on AA, I know I am earning major AAdvantage points that I can use to go to Pittsburgh or Cleveland or Columbus or Dayton or Indianapolis......

AAdvantage was, and may still be, the largest frequent flyer program in the world. And not everyone in DFW is using it to go to London or Tokyo ot Bali or Sydney..... and for that reason AA and AAdvantage have accomplished their goal: They make the travelers in DFW say to themselves: "The same price for cool lights on the plane and a groovy ticket counter and hot young stewardesses......or the same price to be able to earn miles and fly to the cities we want to fly to (A heck of a lot more cities than Virgin offers)."

Is the hip environment and flowers at the ticket counter and a cool inflight entertainment system nice? Sure it is. But as a DFW flyer I who has to occaissionally purchase tickets to one of the VERY FEW cities that Virgin can get me to on the west coast.....all of that lacks in comparison to what I can earn for the same price by earning AAdvantage miles to get me to the EAST COAST. How does Virgin do that for me?

With so many corportate accounts that AMR and AA hold in DFW, and so many DFW residents getting AAdvantage miles on the company dime....who has the upper hand?

And I do have friends who have raved about Virgin and their service from DFW to SFO and LAX....but I also know that they ALL bought their tickets based on lowest fare....not on what they have heard about Virgin and not about any loyalty to any particular company. It was all about price. Throw in the rock-bottom fares and the AAdvantage loyalty in the Metroplex.....and I think AA will come out ahead.

How many AAdvantage members are going to go all out to fly this $99 fare just to earn more miles on milage runs.....compared to how many people are going to fly Virgin for the same reason?

Good luck, AA. I am rooting for you.
"Piedmont. The Model of What a Good Airline Should Be."
 
YYZAMS
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RE: AA Lowers Boom On VX: $99RT DFW-LAX/SFO

Fri Sep 16, 2011 1:02 am

Why does VX still say ACES Columbia when I hover over it?

Is ACES still in operation? Let's change it to Virgin Merica
 
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LAXintl
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RE: AA Lowers Boom On VX: $99RT DFW-LAX/SFO

Fri Sep 16, 2011 1:07 am

Quoting PI767 (Reply 43):
I wonder if the non-DFW residents who post on anet have any idea of the power that American and, even more so, AAdvantage plays into DFW residents picking a flight.

And maybe DFW residents can't appreciate the appeal and following a carrier VX has developed in its home markets like LA and SF.

Quoting PI767 (Reply 43):
...who has the upper hand?

Sure AA is the DFW power-house, and AAdvantage holds many people hostage, however VX certainly has negatively effected AA, to the great benefit of consumers - especially the AA ones which have seen nice fare reductions.

Quoting PI767 (Reply 43):
Good luck, AA. I am rooting for you.

Even as a AA EXP, I'm rooting for VX.

Why - they have a terrific product, and if not for VX consumers such as myself would have paid many millions more for their air travel needs to/from DFW since last year.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
LAXtoATL
Posts: 596
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RE: AA Lowers Boom On VX: $99RT DFW-LAX/SFO

Fri Sep 16, 2011 1:29 am

Quoting PI767 (Reply 43):
If AA's fare is lower or the same as Virgin America, I am going to fly American.

I wonder if the non-DFW residents who post on anet have any idea of the power that American and, even more so, AAdvantage plays into DFW residents picking a flight.

Based on AA's recent actions it appears you are in the minority. Considering that AA had already matched VX fares and offered AAdvantage mile bonuses and they now feel compelled to drop fares to obvious money-losing levels, AA power and AAdvantage miles weren't enough to deter DFW residents from choosing VX. This is a drastic and desperate move that speaks for itself. There was a lot of debate before VX commenced service about how successful they would be competing against AA at DFW, AA's actions today should leave no doubt that VX has been very successful in DFW and AA is extremely nervous.
 
PI767
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RE: AA Lowers Boom On VX: $99RT DFW-LAX/SFO

Fri Sep 16, 2011 1:40 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 45):
And maybe DFW residents can't appreciate the appeal and following a carrier VX has developed in its home markets like LA and SF.

Maybe we/they don't. All I know is that when I want to buy a ticket and American and Virgin Atlantic have the same fare....I am going to go with American. Like I said, if a DFW resident wants to go to LAX, SFO, SEA or SAN (the latter two changing planes).....and the fare is the SAME.....they are not going to think about the fact that the environment and there is a level of hip-ness to flying Virgin. They are going to think that, between Virgin and American....they have the AA credit card, they can use miles to take their family to the east coast, they are going to think first of all of the advantages the hometown airline offers.....whether they have cool mood-lighting, newer planes, younger employees, etc..... "Hey, I live in Dallas/Fort Worth and I want to take the wife and kids to Orlando next year.....and I earn miles with my AA credit card....and if I have to go to SFO or LAX and the fare is the same on Virgin....who am I going to fly?" I know my answer.

I think it would be freakin' awesome to fly in the state-of-the-art new A320 with awesome lights and a hip boarding environment....but if the price is the same and I have to buy a ticket to San Fran or LA..... I am going to think: "Huh.....which one of these airlines frequent flyer programs are going to do more to get me to Pittsburgh at Christmas?" And the choice is obvious to me.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 45):
Sure AA is the DFW power-house, and AAdvantage holds many people hostage

Isn't that the whole point of frequent flyer programs? To capture, or as you say, "Hold hostage" the members. I am sure there is a reason the vast majority of people in Charlotte are captive to USAirways Dividend Miles....and people in Detroit are captive to Delta SkyMiles.....because they WANT to earn the milage on those carriers.

Look at Southwest on the PHL-BOS route. Despite lowering fares dramatically, WN does not see that route as profitable. Whther you like it or not, WN lowered fares (just like AirTran, Eastwind, NationsAir, etc have done in the past) but the residents of those cities were loyal to the legacy carriers who one had ridiculous fares....all because of the fact that they could still earn miles on the carrier their frequent flyer accounts were tied o.

And there is nothing wrong with that. I would probably do the same thing. If my preferred route was DFW-Memphis and all of a sudden some new carrier came in with $19 fares and AA and DL were forced to match.....and even if said new carrier had all of this cool, awesome stuff.... I would still fly the airline my miles were attached to. Its the name of the frequent flyer program business. That's why those programs were started.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 45):
to the great benefit of consumers - especially the AA ones which have seen nice fare reductions.

And I won't deny that point. I am sure that AAdvantage and even SkyMiles members that are stuck from the pre-dehubbing of Delta love it. Or the same way that PHL-PIT passengers who only fly USAirways have loved what WN has done to fares in that market over the past year. Take advantage of it....I would! Let's see what happens when the low-cost carrier goes away. Like I said, I won't be the first to deny that I take advantage of a low-fare carrier's presence when they are around and AA matches the fare.....but I still know that ultimately, my loyalty in buying tickets will be with American because when all is said and done....AA's route system is much larger and much more beneficial and AAdvantage's awards will benefit me more than the program of a carrier that serves a handful of cities in the direction of the country that I rarely fly.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 45):

Even as a AA EXP, I'm rooting for VX.

Why - they have a terrific product, and if not for VX consumers such as myself would have paid many millions more for their air travel needs to/from DFW since last year.

Again... I won't disagree with you. Baed on what you have said, your travel priorities must be (or include) a lot of west coast travel. For someone like me, who's need to buy tickets is based in travel to the East Coast...Virgin America does nothing for me. They do not fly to the cities I need to go to in the east. And, if they did, it would probably be DFW to the west coast and back out east. Sorry.... Even for free..... that doesn't benefit me. But if you have a reason to continuously fly to LAX, SFO, SAN, SEA, LAS....good for you that you have Virgin America. For me....those routes do nothing for me and the lowering of fares to a small handful of west coast cities does nothing for me as a DFW resident who normally purchases tickets to the east coast and northeast. When Virgin starts flying to PIT, CLE, CMH, DAY.....then I might be interested. Until then, its all American and all AAdvantage and I doubt I am one of the few in the Metroplex who feel that way. Either way, I will be happy to earn my AAdvantage miles by flying $99 roundtrip to LAX and SFO.
"Piedmont. The Model of What a Good Airline Should Be."
 
RamblinMan
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RE: AA Lowers Boom On VX: $99RT DFW-LAX/SFO

Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:32 am

Contrary to what people on this site think, not everybody out there is a miles hound. It is, as it turns out, possible to book with different carriers for different trips. So all this argument that VX is useless for people in DFW...well, it's useful for those who want to take a trip (even a single trip) to LAX or SFO. I'm not disputing the marketing power of FF programs, just saying that the majority are non-elites whose loyalty can be switched.

Quoting LAXtoATL (Reply 46):
Based on AA's recent actions it appears you are in the minority. Considering that AA had already matched VX fares and offered AAdvantage mile bonuses and they now feel compelled to drop fares to obvious money-losing levels, AA power and AAdvantage miles weren't enough to deter DFW residents from choosing VX. This is a drastic and desperate move that speaks for itself.

For sure. AA will always have a powerhouse hub at DFW, but that doesn't mean VX can't capture some of the local market.
 
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fxramper
Posts: 5839
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RE: AA Lowers Boom On VX: $99RT DFW-LAX/SFO

Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:42 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 20):
For fun VX should match the fare and extend the time period for the entire winter which would really put AA in the zinger.

Would love to see VX destroy AA on one of the grandaddy routes.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 20):
AA has tons more inventory on many more flights which could be tied up with this craziness.

My thoughts exactly. Cut off your nose to spite your face methodology at AA.

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