Extra Flights Between HKG And LHR?

United Airline · Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:12 am

Hong Kong Airlines is starting first/business class only flights between HKG and LHR.

What about CX? Will there be a 5th daily flight? Will BA/VS resume their 3rd/2nd daily flights? NZ?

Possible for a HKG-LGW service? Oasis did it earlier.

APYu · Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:18 am

Hong kong airlines will operate into LGW

United Airline · Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:27 am

Any economy class on HA?

santos · Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:58 am

Quoting United Airline (Reply 2):
Any economy class on HA

Do you mean HX

I'm sure BA is increasing HKG from next year.

[Edited 2011-09-17 01:58:39]

United Airline · Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:04 am

Yes HX

Will BA go triple daily?

APYu · Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:15 am

BA will be three daily three days a week, in response to QF dropping their LHR-HKG flights next year

ZKOJH · Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:33 pm

with QF going and the likley of NZ too off this route, this will free up more room for BA and CX to fight out.

United Airline · Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:37 pm

Will QF return one day? Doubt NZ will pull the plug.

VS will be there still. And they have no plans to pull HKG-SYD

Will BA go 21 flights a week again? I expect more BA B 747-400s in HKG

blueflyer · Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:41 pm

Quoting United Airline (Thread starter):
Hong Kong Airlines is starting first/business class only flights between HKG and LHR.

Good luck to them. If they want to make it work, they'll need to provide better service than CX and BA at lower prices than EK.

LGWGate49 · Sat Sep 17, 2011 10:20 pm

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 8):
Good luck to them. If they want to make it work, they'll need to provide better service than CX and BA at lower prices than EK.

Totally agree, but is it true that HX don't offer a flat bed in business? That's never gonna work on LHR-HKG!

United Airline · Sun Sep 18, 2011 4:09 am

Will CX be adding extra flights? Maybe to LGW for a change?

I am surprised that HX has no economy class on its HKG-LGW flights

gabrielchew · Sun Sep 18, 2011 4:55 am

BA is putting the B777-300ER on some of the HKG routes, and the new daytime service out of HKG is goign to be a B772 I believe, so a choice of B744, B773 and B772 everyday from BA.

GSTBA · Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:30 am

Quoting gabrielchew (Reply 11):
BA is putting the B777-300ER on some of the HKG routes, and the new daytime service out of HKG is goign to be a B772 I believe, so a choice of B744, B773 and B772 everyday from BA.

The timetable is as follows for S12

BA031 LHR 12:00 HKG 06:55* 777 3,5,7
BA025 LHR 18:40 HKG 13:15* 747 D
BA027 LHR 22:00 HKG 16:50* 77W D

BA032 HKG 09:00 LHR 15:00 777 1,4,6
BA026 HKG 23:15 LHR 04:55* 747 D
BA028 HKG 23:45 LHR 05:40* 77W D

BA025/BA026 service will be operated by a Hi-J 747 (14F/70J/30W/185Y)
BA027/BA028 service will be operated on a 77W (14F/56J/44W/183Y)
BA031/BA032 service will operate on a 4 Class 777 (12F/48J/32W/127Y)

Quoting United Airline (Reply 4):
Will BA go triple daily?

No return to triple daily flights for S12. If they do it won't happen to late OCT12

qf002 · Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:16 am

Quoting gabrielchew (Reply 11):
so a choice of B744, B773 and B772 everyday from BA.

Only three days a week. On the other four days it will be a choice between the daily 744 or the daily 77W.

United Airline · Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:12 pm

Quoting GSTBA (Reply 12):
BA025/BA026 service will be operated by a Hi-J 747 (14F/70J/30W/185Y)

Why not use the high density one? HKG-LHR=packed

Eltomzo · Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:25 pm

Quoting LGWGate49 (Reply 9):
Totally agree, but is it true that HX don't offer a flat bed in business? That's never gonna work on LHR-HKG!

Certainly true on their current A330s. Will be interesting to see what they roll out for this new service.

qf002 · Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:27 pm

Quoting United Airline (Reply 14):
Why not use the high density one? HKG-LHR=packed

Well in reality, HKG-LHR = packed with high yielding J/F traffic, and plenty of Y capacity. They make more money filling a Hi-J 744 than a Lo-J one...

LondonCity · Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm

Quoting United Airline (Reply 7):
Doubt NZ will pull the plug.

But note that NZ is losing NZ$ 1 million a week on its international routes. The CEO has said that NZ will review its overseas routes and an announcement is expected by the end of the year. But if NZ goes then it means Star will have no representation on this important route.

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gener...08/25/awx_08_25_2011_p0-363241.xml

Quoting LGWGate49 (Reply 9):
but is it true that HX don't offer a flat bed in business? That's never gonna work on LHR-HKG!

It could work as not everybody needs a flat bed or is prepared to pay for one. Sure, top executives will demand the highest of comfort so will opt for BA/CX/VS etc but lower-ranking business people (especially owners of small firms) will be not be so fussy. And note that a lower priced business would appeal to wealthy leisure passengers.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 10):
I am surprised that HX has no economy class on its HKG-LGW flights

It seems as though HX is trying out a new business model. HKG-based Oasis used to fly HKG-LGW in a 2-class layout but it failed.

skipness1E · Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:56 pm

Quoting United Airline (Reply 4):
Will BA go triple daily?

Technically they're returning to triple daily, it was only dropped relatively recently.

anstar · Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:24 pm

Quoting LondonCity (Reply 17):
But if NZ goes then it means Star will have no representation on this important route.

Perhaps they will drop LHR-HKG in favour of a VS codeshare, allowing VS to go back to a double daily LHR-HKG service..... and who knows - we may even see VS in STAR one of these days!

slinky09 · Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:36 pm

Quoting Eltomzo (Reply 15):
Certainly true on their current A330s. Will be interesting to see what they roll out for this new service.

With BA J and F established, CX F rated very highly and a new J coming, and also with the OneWorld dominance on this route, any newcomer is going to have to have a very key USP to make it work. Let's see, but the odds are against them.

qf002 · Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:03 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 18):
Technically they're returning to triple daily, it was only dropped relatively recently.

No they're not!! They're moving to 17 weekly!

United Airline · Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:19 am

Will we see VS A380 in Hong Kong at some point?

AA767LOVER · Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:27 am

Quoting LGWGate49 (Reply 9):

Good grief! They better not charge flat bed prices for NON flat bed service, but that's hard. They will charge up people's noses to get the $$$$ no matter what.

CPDC10-30 · Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:45 pm

Quoting United Airline (Thread starter):
Possible for a HKG-LGW service? Oasis did it earlier.

And we all know what a colossal failure that airline was

I am very partial to STN but LGW really seems to have become very agressive at attracting traffic since their sell-off by BAA. Of course it would be great to have more competition. But there's no point throwing more Y capacity at LON-HKG. Prices are still quite competitive.

How about a twice weekly MFM - LON route? That could be interesting if the correct aircraft (such as A330-200) was used from the existing HX fleet. Would that work from a regulatory point of view though?

skipness1E · Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:01 pm

Quoting qf002 (Reply 21):
No they're not!! They're moving to 17 weekly!

Still a decrease on the five year capacity period then, more so given the dropping of the QF29 / 30 HKG-LHR-HLG sector.

Odd given CX have been operating 4 x B744s with the lunchtime A343 having become a B744 on many days this summer.

smi0006 · Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:21 pm

Quoting United Airline (Reply 7):
VS will be there still. And they have no plans to pull HKG-SYD

Quoting United Airline (Reply 22):
Will we see VS A380 in Hong Kong at some point?

Wasn't VS having some issues with SYD as there were too many HKG bound passenger taking up the seats for SYD passengers? I would love to see a VS upgauge the route, but what I would love more is a VS-VA codeshare to open up LHR-HKG-MEL, they were rumoured to be considering LHR-PVG-MEL at one point. I think this maybe in my dream world though. Whilst I think VS have the aircraft for this route I would imagine that it would be tough competing with CX 4 daily LHR and three daily MEL lol quiet the fortress they have there huh?

LondonCity · Tue Sep 20, 2011 4:41 pm

Quoting smi0006 (Reply 26):
Wasn't VS having some issues with SYD as there were too many HKG bound passenger taking up the seats for SYD passengers? I would love to see a VS upgauge the route

Yes it was and to answer the problem VS introduced a second daily LHR-HKG service in 2009. But it seems the extra flight wasn't a commercial success and VS scrapped it after only a short period.

http://www.businesstraveller.com/asi...ic-to-cut-london-heathrow-hongkong

qf002 · Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:41 am

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 25):
Still a decrease on the five year capacity period then, more so given the dropping of the QF29 / 30 HKG-LHR-HLG sector.

No contention to that point! Was just correcting what someone else said (that BA was going to 3 daily, which is not true

)

SKAirbus · Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:59 am

Well with OpenSkies and the common market there is nothing stopping another EU airline setting up shop at LHR and operate an LHR-HKG flight to keep Star Alliance on the route.

For example:

- LH could base an A340-300/600 at LHR or have it as part of an FRA-LHR-HKG-LHR-FRA rotation to operate a daily flight.
- BMI could lease an A340 from LH and operate this route or use one of their A330-200s on it if there is one available.
- VS could operate a second daily rotation and partner up with Star airlines.

Hopefully NZ will stay on the LHR-HKG-AKL route.

Seems a lot of airlines are downsizing at LHR at the moment. Sign that the government anti-aviation stance is taking its toll.

skipness1E · Wed Sep 21, 2011 12:53 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 29):
Well with OpenSkies and the common market there is nothing stopping another EU airline setting up shop at LHR and operate an LHR-HKG flight to keep Star Alliance on the route.

Dear me no, there's a common misconception on here that airline's actually think in terms of what's best for the Alliance. They often don't, they think in terms of what's best for their core responsibility. It's tricky enough to get Air France to think about KLM half the time without Lufthansa galloping to put heavies between the British capital and her former colony.

Why would Lufty operate a long haul configured aircraft between London and Frankfurt simply to fly between the UK and China? There's a massive gulf between what planespotters (like me!) (would like to see happen and what just might realistically come to pass.

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 29):
- LH could base an A340-300/600 at LHR or have it as part of an FRA-LHR-HKG-LHR-FRA rotation to operate a daily flight.
- BMI could lease an A340 from LH and operate this route or use one of their A330-200s on it if there is one available.
- VS could operate a second daily rotation and partner up with Star airlines.
Hopefully NZ will stay on the LHR-HKG-AKL route.

There is nothing to suggest that any of these would make money. The second VS flight was withdrawn as it was a lossmaker, BMI are in no shape to launch long haul into a new market with a new aircraft type as they are about to be sold off. LH would doubtless be able to make more money out of FRA than LHR on the route you suggest, the loss of profitability on the LHR-FRA sector alone would dent the business case.

The main point is that STAR is not an airline, it's an alliance of competing carriers, some of whom don't even get on, some like THAI and Singapore are direct regional competitors. Also as has been stated, Heathrow is not a STAR hub, that's FRA, LHR is a focus city, they're not the same animals. Hence it doesn't actually dent the bottom line too much if there is no STAR presence in this market.

[Edited 2011-09-21 05:54:21]

[Edited 2011-09-21 05:55:10]

SKAirbus · Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:24 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 30):
There is nothing to suggest that any of these would make money. The second VS flight was withdrawn as it was a lossmaker, BMI are in no shape to launch long haul into a new market with a new aircraft type as they are about to be sold off. LH would doubtless be able to make more money out of FRA than LHR on the route you suggest, the loss of profitability on the LHR-FRA sector alone would dent the business case.

I was merely looking at a scenario where NZ withdraws from the market leaving a capacity gap. Additionally BA's new service will only run three days a week.

VS could maybe make a second service to work if NZ withdraws. I wonder if they could even get rights to extend to AKL with an A343.

qf002 · Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:15 am

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 31):
I was merely looking at a scenario where NZ withdraws from the market leaving a capacity gap.

Well NZ is said to not being doing brilliantly HKG-LHR so I don't think there's a major * market there -- why fill a spot that has been emptied because of poor loads/returns? (assuming this is the reason for NZ withdrawal in your hypothetical).

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