kaitak
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Irish 20/11: Failte Ar Bord!

Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:30 am

Good morning folks and welcome to our 20th thread of the year!

Our 19th thread was certainly an eventful one and certainly, given the econpmic throes we're going through, one of the most positive in a long time. The Emirates announcement was finally made and quite apart from being a big economic boost, was also a very important psychological boost.

We heard about the govt's plans (which won't be finalised until later in the year, or early next) to sell off its remaining EI shareholding. We also heard about the pension issue, so let's hope that can be sorted out some way. We also heard about FR's demand for a hefty dividend payment, so that'll give us some idea of FR's price for whatever airline wants to buy its shareholding; it'll get its pound of flesh.

Good news from Lufty as well, on two fronts: Knock gets a direct flight to Germany and Dublin gets a fairly sizeable increase in capacity. Incidentally, does anyone know (very roughly) what proportion of LH pax to FRA are "point to point" and what proportion is connection; I would imagine the latter is quite large.

So, unlike previous threads, lots of silver linings. Let's hope it continues for this one ...
 
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OA260
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RE: Irish 20/11: Failte Ar Bord!

Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:34 am

Quoting kaitak (Thread starter):
The Emirates announcement was finally made and quite apart from being a big economic boost, was also a very important psychological boost.

Indeed will open up a lot of new connections and of course the direct link to Dubai. Hope we eventually see an upgrade to a B777 that would be a great thing to see.

Quoting kaitak (Thread starter):
Incidentally, does anyone know (very roughly) what proportion of LH pax to FRA are "point to point" and what proportion is connection; I would imagine the latter is quite large.

Great to see an increase in capacity and I would presume around 70% are connections and 30% point to point. Whenever I have been on the DUB-FRA flights that seems to be the average split.

Cityjet starts off their new advertising campaign and I have seen a few of the Ads and quite like them.

Slogans such as “Think of me as Mr Nolan. Not seat 4A” and ''Cityjet now your flying'' , ''What better way to get to London then to actually land there''.

http://i955.photobucket.com/albums/ae40/PhilipOA260/wx1.png

I hope they do well. Their main competitor at LCY is BA who launch their new campaign this week also.

http://i955.photobucket.com/albums/ae40/PhilipOA260/wx2.png
 
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shamrock350
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RE: Irish 20/11: Failte Ar Bord!

Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:38 am

Quoting OA260 (Reply 1):
I hope they do well. Their main competitor at LCY is BA who launch their new campaign this week also.

It's much bolder and to the point than I expected, I like the way they've used their rather logo as well. The BA campaign looks set to be very good, I have a feeling it will be everything the Aer Lingus 75th campaign should have been. Speaking of EI, their recently launched adverts by new agency Irish International are just more of the same stuff we've been seeing from EI since about 2006.
 
sawtooth
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RE: Irish 20/11: Failte Ar Bord!

Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:33 am

Quoting OA260 (Reply 1):
Cityjet starts off their new advertising campaign and I have seen a few of the Ads and quite like them.

Nice clear graphic ads. They really need more brand awareness at home, we speak about Irish aviation daily but they usually go under the radar. Outside of the business commuters to The City I often wonder if most irish people know they exist?

-----

While on the point of advertising...

I had my first trip through T2 last week. In general my impression "unremarkable". But I don't mean it in a negative sense, I think the fact I breezed through both directions without any issues is probably testament to the design doing the job it was supposed to and getting out of my way. All round a thoroughly modern and world class building.

If I had to find a negative the one thing I missed was the rugby sponsorship light boxes and other Irish advertising in T1. Those large colourful billboards are one of the few things that welcomed you to Ireland or let you know you were back home. With the exception of EI branding on piers and check-in there's virtually nothing to say you are in Ireland in T2, it could be a terminal in AbuDabi or Osaka. So if I had to find a criticism it's that our major gateway needs something personal to say welcome to Ireland, or welcome home.

Quote:
Fantastic news regarding Emirates - good to see a rumour come true for a change. Interesting to see Lufthansa start a NOC route too. Any other optimistic rumours in the pipeline I should keep an eye out for?

Na, just a hub connection, US route and Ryanair base at NOC next year :P

[Edited 2011-09-19 03:13:24]
 
Eirules
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RE: Irish 20/11: Failte Ar Bord!

Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:13 am

On the subjest of LH, I see they are now sponsoring a morning radio show here in Dublin - "connecting Dublin to the world" as their slogan goes. Good to see a major European carrier making a real effort from DUB, lets be honest BA have pretty much done zero from an effort point of view from DUB. They have relied on historic links from DUB-LHR as an Irish connection route and have had it far too easy in my opinion
The way you cut your meat reflects the way you live....
 
kaitak
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RE: Irish 20/11: Failte Ar Bord!

Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:57 pm

Quoting EIRules (Reply 4):
On the subjest of LH, I see they are now sponsoring a morning radio show here in Dublin - "connecting Dublin to the world" as their slogan goes. Good to see a major European carrier making a real effort from DUB, lets be honest BA have pretty much done zero from an effort point of view from DUB. They have relied on historic links from DUB-LHR as an Irish connection route and have had it far too easy in my opinion

Fair point; I think it also illustrates the fact that if an airline doesn't have its own "metal" on the ground, it isn't going to market; you're quite right to say that it has had it too easy, because most pax have gone through LHR, almost "automatically"; now that dynamic is changing - largely due to the availability of different options. LH has seen this; it also sees that its mortal enemy is about to descend on the Irish market and it needs to increase its presence. Its a two pronged attack: increase visiblity and capacity. Again, presence = incentive; no presence, no incentive. The flipside of this is that the likes of LH, EY and now EK have the incentive to market Ireland in other markets, from SA to M/E to India, ASEAN, China etc. BA doesn't have that.
 
Eirules
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RE: Irish 20/11: Failte Ar Bord!

Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:03 pm

Quoting kaitak (Reply 5):
The flipside of this is that the likes of LH, EY and now EK have the incentive to market Ireland in other markets, from SA to M/E to India, ASEAN, China etc. BA doesn't have that.

Exactly. I regularly get emails from Kayak advertising deals from USA to Europe which Dublin often feature in. The fares are all with LH and AF (and to a lesser extent SK) but never BA. BA have done nothing to attract overseas visitors to DUB or Ireland full stop of late, they simply want feed FROM Ireland to their long haul network via EI and LHR
The way you cut your meat reflects the way you live....
 
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OA260
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RE: Irish 20/11: Failte Ar Bord!

Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:13 pm

Interesting development at EI HQ :

Airline accused of spying on employee

A MANAGER with Aer Lingus has claimed she was put under surveillance by private detectives hired by the company.

Kathleen Bermingham, a landside manager with Aer Lingus at Dublin Airport was suspended by the airline last March to "allow allegations of irregularities regarding attendances", to be investigated.

http://www.independent.ie/national-n...of-spying-on-employee-2879726.html
 
tonymctigue
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RE: Irish 20/11: Failte Ar Bord!

Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:44 pm

Quoting OA260 (Reply 7):
Airline accused of spying on employee

That's not something you read every day. A new low in EI industrial relations practice or just a lazy employee thinking she's smarter than she is and is just mad that she got caught? Hard to know. It will be an interesting one. We await the outcome.
Airports: SNN GWY NOC DUB ORK BOS EWR JFK ORD MCI BOI SEA LHR STN CDG LYS FAO GVA HKG MEL ADL HBA
 
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shamrock604
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RE: Irish 20/11: Failte Ar Bord!

Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:03 pm

Speaking of LH, I would be very surprised if they were not considering Cork or Belfast for a regional jet operated FRA service. They seem to be focusing on Ireland and Britain at present with the extra slots gained from the new runway at FRA.
 
Eirules
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RE: Irish 20/11: Failte Ar Bord!

Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:16 pm

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 9):
Speaking of LH, I would be very surprised if they were not considering Cork or Belfast for a regional jet operated FRA service. They seem to be focusing on Ireland and Britain at present with the extra slots gained from the new runway at FRA

I'd agree. A DUB-MUC service wouldnt surprise me either. EI can make it work and thats only point-to-point traffic. LH are growing their long haul business out of MUC so I can see them making a go at it. I know they flew to MUC last Summer on Satudays only but maybe that was just tipping their toes in the water.

BTW, happy anet birthday Shamrock604
The way you cut your meat reflects the way you live....
 
n272wa
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RE: Irish 20/11: Failte Ar Bord!

Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:19 pm

TC-ANA Turkish Air Force A319 on approach to DUB now.
 
BrianDromey
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RE: Irish 20/11: Failte Ar Bord!

Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:31 pm

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 9):
Speaking of LH, I would be very surprised if they were not considering Cork or Belfast for a regional jet operated FRA service. They seem to be focusing on Ireland and Britain at present with the extra slots gained from the new runway at FRA.


That would be great! Hopefully! I think attracting and keeping such a service would be difficult for ORK, but hopefully. As for BFS/BHD, I think a lot might depend on the outcome of the BD situation. We might even see some very odd solutions, theoretically WW could operate a FRA service for LH from BHD to LH standards like BD do from MAN and FRA.
 
n272wa
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RE: Irish 20/11: Failte Ar Bord!

Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:35 pm

EI operated FRA-DUB-ORK and CPH-DUB-ORK in the
mid 90's with 737. EI also pulled Berlin from
Cork, leaving Munich as the only German route. Surely
there is scope for further German expansion ex Cork.
 
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shamrock604
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RE: Irish 20/11: Failte Ar Bord!

Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:00 pm

Quoting EIRules (Reply 10):

Ah thank you! I hadn't even noticed til you said it!
 
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shamrock604
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RE: Irish 20/11: Failte Ar Bord!

Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:28 pm

Quoting sawtooth (Reply 3):

Its true what you say about cityjet, but really who do they need to know about them apart from the commuters to LCY?

The Paris and Pau routes are sold under the Air France brand, and LCY is well patronised with a loyal clientele who wouldnt fly to any other airport. Where Cityjet really need to market is in London, not here.
 
iRISH251
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RE: Irish 20/11: Failte Ar Bord!

Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:59 pm

Quoting N272wa (Reply 11):
TC-ANA Turkish Air Force A319 on approach to DUB now.

One of many government aircraft crossing the Atlantic this week en route to the UN in NYC. It has visited Dublin several times previously.

Turkish Government Airbus A319-115X TC-ANA by Irish251, on Flickr
 
EI1989
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RE: Irish 20/11: Failte Ar Bord!

Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:22 pm

Quoting OA260 (Reply 1):
Cityjet starts off their new advertising campaign and I have seen a few of the Ads and quite like them.

I flew with Cityjet today and there was a piece in their magazine about the new ads. They look pretty slick I must say. They have made subtle changes to their branding, or so they say; changes to in flight magazine, cabin uniforms etc. I have to say I was quite impressed by them. I managed to get a 50 euro all in fare to LCY one way, although I had booked in advance. I needed as much luggage allowance as possible and the 23KG they offer was a no brainer. Plus free coffee, juice and a muffin is a pleasant surprise when you're trying to wake up after rising at 6am   Couple that with a flying time of just under the hour mark, into the heart of London and it is a good product. I hope the campaign helps them move forward and attract more leisure customers (there were a few families on my flight) as well as solidifying their traditional business target market (at least for the LCY route) and helps to sustain their business, it is a niche product, but one that would be a shame to lose. As people have alluded to above, we don't really hear about them but if someone is travelling to London and plans ahead of time, cityjet can work out much better value than EI or FR.

Quoting kaitak (Thread starter):

Good news from Lufty as well, on two fronts: Knock gets a direct flight to Germany

As regards the Knock LH route, I think it's a great development and shows what proactive thinking and action can achieve, even in a small airport. I do have a nagging fear that the route might be a flash in the pan and LH might pull it after one season. Although anecdotal, it appears to me that the Germans love the West of Ireland so my pessimism could be well off the mark   .
The trouble with flying: We always have to return to airports.
 
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OA260
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RE: Irish 20/11: Failte Ar Bord!

Tue Sep 20, 2011 6:36 am

Quoting EI1989 (Reply 17):
I managed to get a 50 euro all in fare to LCY one way,

Indeed . I think its something like EUR9 for the fare and EUR49 taxes. Still good though .
 
dstc47
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RE: Irish 20/11: Failte Ar Bord!

Tue Sep 20, 2011 7:59 am

Quoting EI1989 (Reply 17):
the Germans love the West of Ireland

True. Various summer only services have been tried to various locations on the west coast from Germany over the years, SNN, KIR, mostly involving German IT contracts over the years and mostly relying on German only traffic. Little or no effort to get IRL based passengers or advertising support and often carriers unknown to the Irish passenger. Even St Angelo once had a weekly Swiss charter service. They tend to be very sensitive to changes in market demand, or operator tour whim and often seem to be marginal, so they come and go. If the bus tour does not sell - end of service.Best to view these as seasonal charters.

Regular scheduled service, and all year service is another thing.

Hard to see any scheduled German service running out of Belfast, unless FR took it up.
 
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AmricanShamrok
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RE: Irish 20/11: Failte Ar Bord!

Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:25 am

Any know if there is any progress with Aer Lingus' mobile check-in? So far it is only available on UK routes to/from Dublin but it's been that way for some time. Will it be eventually rolled out to the entire network including ShannonCork/Belfast/Knock?
 
sawtooth
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RE: Irish 20/11: Failte Ar Bord!

Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:46 am

Quoting EI1989 (Reply 17):
As regards the Knock LH route, I think it's a great development and shows what proactive thinking and action can achieve, even in a small airport. I do have a nagging fear that the route might be a flash in the pan and LH might pull it after one season. Although anecdotal, it appears to me that the Germans love the West of Ireland so my pessimism could be well off the mark   .

I believe that one of the most popular soaps in Germany for the last couple of years was based and partly filmed in the West of Ireland, which can only help create demand.

Hopefully there will be as much outbound demand, showing €138 (€88 fare, €55 taxes/charges) return on the LH site look good to me.

Anna.aero have an article on German numbers into Ireland
http://www.anna.aero/2011/09/15/knoc...sa-dusseldorf-service-next-summer/

[Edited 2011-09-20 02:27:25]
 
sawtooth
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RE: Irish 20/11: Failte Ar Bord!

Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:30 am

Reading some of the tweets from World Low Cost Airline Conference in LHR. Some interesting insights…(note these are tweets so may be paraphrasing exact quotes from Richard Quest panel)

C.Mueller EI:
- "Joining alliance is very expensive. We are not going to join any"
- "In Ireland passengers choose between Ryanair and us. Both crappy service, but we see pax want more"(?!)

Ken O'Toole FR
- Will grow by 6% this year but fares will rise by 12%
- Needs an additional €3 per pax to cover higher fuel cost
- Everyone in industry has to face up to price of oil, its not just an airline thing
- Growth definitely is slowing down. We will not put many additional aircraft next years.
- "We're open to new routes, but if we don’t make profit in 18 months will cancel them" (in response to Q on closing 170 last year)

Carolyn McCall EZ :
- "The new trend in the airlines industry is to try and get as much connection as possible"
- "Will launch loyalty program if it can be done a really cost-effective way"
- "Charging extra for the first seats with extra space is nonsense. We need to keep things simple. We will not add complexity to our business model"
- "We definately won't go long haul. Egypt and Israel is the limit"
- "Main vision - further increase frequencies and get more business passengers"
- Launching flexifare, if your more than 15 mins late next journey free (!)

------

Further analysis of top 11 top LCC globally, of interest:
- Ryanair has highest number of routes by a margin passing 1100 mark
- Ryaniar has lowest frequencies

http://www.anna.aero/2011/09/15/anna...l-lcc-network-strategy-comparison/

------

And if you really want some bedtime reading, here's an 50 page indepth analysis of every aspect of FR business model in 2011. Final summary:

Quote:
Ryanair has deeply modified the traditional model of airlines. Passenger transportation is no more the main source of income. Value comes from derived income sources such as airport subsidies orwebsite traffic monetisation.With a highly different business model from traditional airlines, it is difficult to compare the Irishcarrier with its competitors...
Yet, investors may wonder what the real value of the company is. On one hand, Ryanair’s businessmodel heavily relies on airports’ subsidies (around 20% of the company’s turnover) and employees subcontracted and hired on Irish conditions. On the other hand, the financial structure is complex with a holding, Ryanair Holdings plc publishing the annual report and the subsidiaries (Ryanair Ltd and its own subsidiaries) in charge of operations. Any change in the airport subsidies scheme or in the employee contract localisation could severely impact Ryanair’s numbers and destabilise the company. Its profitability could not be as high and it would both impact the firm’s futuredevelopment and the firm’s value to shareholders.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/65613687/A...-Scoop-Ryanair-Business-Model-2011

[Edited 2011-09-20 04:47:26]
 
auntie
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RE: Irish 20/11: Failte Ar Bord!

Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:38 pm

Quoting EI1989 (Reply 17):
I managed to get a 50 euro all in fare to LCY one way
Quoting OA260 (Reply 18):
I think its something like EUR9 for the fare and EUR49 taxes. Still good though .

That's really interesting to know. Around this time last year I was booking a flight to London for a Sat morning to a Sunday evening. FR to STN was about €40, EI to LHR was about €75 and WX to LCY was €270 !!!!!

For that reason I never even considered them again when looking at flights, assuming that was a typical fare. I must start including them in my 'shopping around' again!!
 
gosimeon
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RE: Irish 20/11: Failte Ar Bord!

Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:45 pm

Harbour Flights have been awarded their first licence to operate in Ireland today. When I first read about them, I assumed it wouldn't happen, but apparently it is! Website: http://www.harbourflights.com/
 
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shamrock350
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RE: Irish 20/11: Failte Ar Bord!

Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:16 pm

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 20):

Any know if there is any progress with Aer Lingus' mobile check-in? So far it is only available on UK routes to/from Dublin but it's been that way for some time. Will it be eventually rolled out to the entire network including ShannonCork/Belfast/Knock?

It was originally a limited amount of routes from DUB such as LHR, LGW and MAN but has recently been expanded to include all UK routes along with BRU and MAD from DUB. It's already proven quite popular so I'm sure it will be further expanded to include the other bases but I'd expect more routes from DUB first before that happens.

I've used it twice now and found it very easy, worked just like it should have.
 
kaitak
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RE: Irish 20/11: Failte Ar Bord!

Tue Sep 20, 2011 4:40 pm

Quoting sawtooth (Reply 22):
"In Ireland passengers choose between Ryanair and us. Both crappy service, but we see pax want more"(?!)

Did he actually say this?!!! Is this CM's "Ratners" moment?

Anyway, Howard Millar, FR's CFO, has commented on the airline's fleet needs, saying he would like to see an increase of about 10% in fuel efficiency before looking at the 737 Max. (Personally, I think FR - or indeed, any major carrier - would be crazy to look at the 737 Max; it's so obviously an interim aircraft and to replace the existing fleet would take several years, upon which a new type would be available..

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/0...=RSS&feedName=marketMovers&rpc=401
 
Eagleboy
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RE: Irish 20/11: Failte Ar Bord!

Tue Sep 20, 2011 4:49 pm

Quoting kaitak (Reply 26):
Did he actually say this?!!! Is this CM's "Ratners" moment?

I highly doubt it. CM is always very careful with his words. I assume this was a paraphrasing of what his actual quote was.

Quoting sawtooth (Reply 22):
Reading some of the tweets from World Low Cost Airline Conference in LHR. Some interesting insights…(note these are tweets so may be paraphrasing exact quotes from Richard Quest panel)
Quoting kaitak (Reply 26):
Personally, I think FR - or indeed, any major carrier - would be crazy to look at the 737 Max; it's so obviously an interim aircraft and to replace the existing fleet would take several years, upon which a new type would be available..

I agree, however how long will they have to wait for the 'new' aircraft, 5 years? 10?
The FR fleet mgmt model needs new units within the next 2-3 years I think.
 
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OA260
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RE: Irish 20/11: Failte Ar Bord!

Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:30 pm

Quoting auntie (Reply 23):
For that reason I never even considered them again when looking at flights, assuming that was a typical fare. I must start including them in my 'shopping around' again!!

Oh I was the same only for the fact that AF have given me an offer to retain my status til 2013 by just taking one more AF flight then I wouldn't have even looked myself.
 
BrianDromey
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RE: Irish 20/11: Failte Ar Bord!

Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:33 pm

Quoting Eagleboy (Reply 27):
I agree, however how long will they have to wait for the 'new' aircraft, 5 years? 10?

The problem FR might be facing is that resale values for the MAX might be quite poor, that will make a difference to their calculations too. That said Boeing will need a european launch customer (well a launch customer full stop - AA only have an MOU as I understand it), so discounts may be on offer.
 
EIBoston
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RE: Irish 20/11: Failte Ar Bord!

Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:40 pm

Quick question about SNN and the CBP. Do the EI flights to BOS and JFK clear at SNN or are they clearing on arrival in USA? My last few return flights have via Dublin, and I know I cleared in DUB for those. Thanks.
 
EI320
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RE: Irish 20/11: Failte Ar Bord!

Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:47 pm

All EI flights ex SNN clear at SNN
 
EIBoston
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RE: Irish 20/11: Failte Ar Bord!

Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:53 pm

Quoting EI320 (Reply 31):
All EI flights ex SNN clear at SNN

Thanks EI320!
 
EIBusiness
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RE: Irish 20/11: Failte Ar Bord!

Tue Sep 20, 2011 6:23 pm

On the potential sale of the government's stake in EI and the general EI Full Year Outlook:

FT - Lufthansa warns profits to fall after slow August

Lufthansa no longer expects its 2011 group operating profit to exceed that generated in 2010, and the German airline is responding by cutting planned increases in capacity.

Another analyst, who declined to be named, said Lufthansa’s profit warning would not be the last by a European flag-carrier this year, given the weak economic environment.


Two points are notable from this: Firstly, the ever worsening global environment is now directly impacting some of Europe's best performing airlines - LH for example. Given this latest guidance - LH are unlikely to want to make any acquisitions in the near term, as they rein in previous plans for growth.

Moreover - I think the downside risks to the Full Year EI Outlook, issued only some weeks ago have now increased significantly and the prospect of a worse than anticipated Q4 performance is becoming increasingly possible.

EIBusiness
Vivo Per Lei...
 
Eirules
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RE: Irish 20/11: Failte Ar Bord!

Tue Sep 20, 2011 7:18 pm

Quoting EIBusiness (Reply 33):
Two points are notable from this: Firstly, the ever worsening global environment is now directly impacting some of Europe's best performing airlines - LH for example. Given this latest guidance - LH are unlikely to want to make any acquisitions in the near term, as they rein in previous plans for growth.

With this in mind, and I understand the pressures on the govt from a cash flow point-of-view, now doesnt seems like a great time to be selling their stake in EI given the potentially poor performances from any prospective buyer. That said, I still see LH very much in the mix for EI and particularly if LH can offload the loss making BD
The way you cut your meat reflects the way you live....
 
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shamrock604
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RE: Irish 20/11: Failte Ar Bord!

Tue Sep 20, 2011 7:23 pm

Quoting EIBusiness (Reply 33):

A lot of the talk about selling the EI stake will have been "kite flying" to gauge public reaction, gauge FR's reaction, and of course gauge the market's reaction.

It's a lengthy process and of course one has to start the process by signaling intent to sell. The potential return is small in the big scheme of things and so i'm sure the government is quite happy to wait for a time.
 
styles9002
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RE: Irish 20/11: Failte Ar Bord!

Tue Sep 20, 2011 7:46 pm

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 35):
The potential return is small in the big scheme of things and so i'm sure the government is quite happy to wait for a time.

It is highly unlikely that the government stake in Aer Lingus will ever see anywhere near the valuation of either the first or second Ryanair bids.

I realize that whole situation was and is a very sensitive subject for many of the people who post on this thread but we are in a new normal now and I don't think the short- to mid-term prospects for Aer Lingus (or most any Euro airline save perhaps the big 4) are that great. That is my opinion based on my amateur analysis (which is probably as relevant as any Nobel laureate economist with the the track record from the academics; is anyone more wrong than economists? weathermen perhaps?) of the macro economy as well as Ireland's micro economy within it. If the economy doesn't get any worse, it looks like it will just plod along the bottom for quite some, perhaps even a decade before the various structural issues are absorbed into the economy.

Of course the government may be willing to wait, kicking the can down the road, because the government is a willing loss-taker. Other shareholders are probably less sanguine. Of course, things may improve and the valuation may increase but they can also remain similar or even worsen and then the government stake could be worth even less. However, if they government we to not block a sale (to Ryanair or someone else), it may give Aer Lingus the needed shot to out perform and be more nimble, etc..

Unfortunately, we will probably never know. It is sad yet almost humorous now to look back and see both, but especially the first Aer Lingus valuation based on the Ryanair bids.
It is what it is.
 
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shamrock604
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RE: Irish 20/11: Failte Ar Bord!

Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:28 pm

Quoting Reply 36):

Yeah, that's all quite fair to say. The value of the company has been, well, diminished, to be polite about it, and the government have lost out.

But...we still come back to the issue of potentially having one carrier controlling 80% of traffic here. That i simply do not want, whether the airline concerned is green or blue.
 
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AmricanShamrok
Posts: 2099
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RE: Irish 20/11: Failte Ar Bord!

Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:23 pm

Fares on Dublin/Shannon-Toronto with Air Transat for next May are €188 RETURN! I'm surely not looking at this properly?!

http://www.airtransat.ie/en/index.aspx
 
Eirules
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Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:17 am

RE: Irish 20/11: Failte Ar Bord!

Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:35 pm

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 38):
Fares on Dublin/Shannon-Toronto with Air Transat for next May are €188 RETURN! I'm surely not looking at this properly?

Thats mad, I'd nearly book just to try them out and finally fly on an A310 for that price
The way you cut your meat reflects the way you live....
 
ei2ksea
Posts: 441
Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2004 11:17 pm

RE: Irish 20/11: Failte Ar Bord!

Wed Sep 21, 2011 2:57 am

EUR128 for a weekend in Montreal in early May!? That's obscene! Sadly being based in BOS, the deal doesn't work in the opposite direction but if any Irish a.netters fancy a trip I'll meet you there for the weekend haha  

It would be a nice deal to log the A310, there cant be many opportunities left to get on one these days.
Next Flight: EWR-SEA (AS), SEA-EWR (UA), EWR-SEA-EWR (UA)
 
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shamrock350
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RE: Irish 20/11: Failte Ar Bord!

Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:56 am

The Metro Herald is claiming to be world's first augmented reality newspaper with the Blippar app on smart phones and Aer Lingus is one of the advertisers using it. You launch the Blipper app, place your phone over the advert and it launches an interactive advert on your screen where you can go directly to the mobile site or click the shamrocks which tell you a reason why you should fly EI, assigned seating and central airports are used in this case.



It's something a little bit different from EI, hopefully more of this new way of interacting with customers is on the way. We heard they would be improving their social networking as well and the Aer Lingus twitter page which was official but never used has now vanished, maybe in preparation of a better attempt?
 
Eagleboy
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Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:29 am

RE: Irish 20/11: Failte Ar Bord!

Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:36 am

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 35):
A lot of the talk about selling the EI stake will have been "kite flying" to gauge public reaction, gauge FR's reaction, and of course gauge the market's reaction.

Setting out the stall seems to be the intention at the moment

Quoting Reply 36):
It is highly unlikely that the government stake in Aer Lingus will ever see anywhere near the valuation of either the first or second Ryanair bids.

Indeed but would it be pie in the sky for the govt to aim for E1 as a selling price? It was launched at 1.20 and this was when FR purchased most of their stake so do people think FR would also be happy with this figure?
 
dstc47
Posts: 1420
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 1999 3:53 am

RE: Irish 20/11: Failte Ar Bord!

Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:51 am

A not particularly informative but positive story about Weston Airfield in the Indo today.

http://www.independent.ie/business/i...round-as-buyer-sought-2881162.html
 
bx737
Posts: 612
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2001 4:47 am

RE: Irish 20/11: Failte Ar Bord!

Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:12 am

Quoting Eagleboy (Reply 42):
It was launched at 1.20

The floatation was at €2.20 and went up to €3.40 after FR put in their bid. Then we have had the great slide down to where the shares are currently trading at 68 cents, which is quite a drop. This values EI at about €350 million.
 
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AmricanShamrok
Posts: 2099
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RE: Irish 20/11: Failte Ar Bord!

Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:36 am

Quoting EIRules (Reply 39):
Thats mad, I'd nearly book just to try them out and finally fly on an A310 for that price

And Club Class for ~€500! They're nearly paying you to fly to Canada! I'm going travelling around the US for a few weeks around then but sadly the transborder connecting flights between Toronto and the US cost more than SNN-

[Edited 2011-09-21 02:37:24]
 
Eagleboy
Posts: 1749
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:29 am

RE: Irish 20/11: Failte Ar Bord!

Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:09 am

Quoting bx737 (Reply 44):

Bloody hell, I forgot that figure! I had remembered the rapid climb above E3 when FR announced their efforts, the possibility of which Mannion and the EI mgmt at the time seemed oblivious to. With no insight into the workings of EI or FR even I had guessed that as a possibility!!
 
BrianDromey
Posts: 2537
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:23 am

RE: Irish 20/11: Failte Ar Bord!

Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:19 am

Quoting shamrock350 (Reply 41):
The Metro Herald is claiming to be world's first augmented reality newspaper with the Blippar app on smart phones and Aer Lingus is one of the advertisers using it.

Am I missing something with this concept? You have to take your smartphone out, open an app and then scan the ad, to get even more ads? It seems really cumbersome. Why would people go actively in search of more advertising, unless there was some benefit or discount for clicking through the app?
I think there is a real opportunity for advertisers at the minute as more and more media moves from physical print / television to media streaming. Trying to use old dogs for these new tricks does not really work for me. I think ads could become a lot more interactive, but Im not sure the Blipper app is the final solution.

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 45):
sadly the transborder connecting flights between Toronto and the US cost more than SNN-

Taxes departing Canada are quite steep alright. I don't think doing a miles redemption would even be much good as most carriers will charge all the tax and YQ. UA might not, if anyone has BD miles.
 
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shamrock350
Posts: 5345
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:38 am

RE: Irish 20/11: Failte Ar Bord!

Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:46 am

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 47):
Am I missing something with this concept? You have to take your smartphone out, open an app and then scan the ad, to get even more ads? It seems really cumbersome. Why would people go actively in search of more advertising, unless there was some benefit or discount for clicking through the app?

Well in the case of Aer Lingus it really does just launch another advert which then takes you to the Aer Lingus mobile site so the advantages are all for Aer Lingus but other advertisers using Blippar are different, some are trying harder to engage with customers by running competitions, discounts and special offers and giving away prizes which is what Sunway did with a €250 holiday vouncher. A lot of people, especially iPhone users will do it out of pure curiosity.

Aer Lingus could add voucher codes to offer discounts which people could then use for their online booking.
 
sawtooth
Posts: 171
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:16 pm

RE: Irish 20/11: Failte Ar Bord!

Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:41 am

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 47):
Am I missing something with this concept? You have to take your smartphone out, open an app and then scan the ad, to get even more ads? It seems really cumbersome. Why would people go actively in search of more advertising, unless there was some benefit or discount for clicking through the app?

I haven't seen it but I think your missing the augmented reality bit which generally means overlaying images, shapes or information over reality, like the London tube map apps that point to the nearest station as you pan your phone camera around the city. You view the press ad through your phones camera, the app recognises a symbol in the ad, and suddenly the ad becomes 3D and looks like it's animated out of the page live as you move around it. These are a bit gimmicky but quite cool so might get the smartphone set interested in visiting the site and in turn EI look trendy.

Here's another example you can try if you have a camera on your laptop...

http://ge.ecomagination.com/smartgrid/#/augmented_reality
http://www.90percentofeverything.com...-reality-demo-you-can-try-at-home/

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