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LH422
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SQ Put A380 On SIN-FRA-JFK-FRA-SIN

Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:09 am

Just got a newsletter from SQ that they will start A380 services on the former B744 route starting Jan 15, 2012. The flights will be operated with aircraft that have Y seating on the upper deck. The timing for SQ 25/26 will stay approximately the same:

SQ26 Singapore - Frankfurt 23:55-06:10+1
SQ26 Frankfurt - New York 08:20-11:10
SQ25 New York - Frankfurt 20:10-10:00+1
SQ25 Frankfurt - Singapore 11:50-06:50+1

I didn't find a link yet.
 
flythere
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RE: SQ Put A380 On SIN-FRA-JFK-FRA-SIN

Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:14 am

Well, if this is so, this is the first time that they clearly voice it out their plan of A380 for JFK.

Though on a side note, just wonder how would it impact the EWR-SIN operation.
 
wilco737
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RE: SQ Put A380 On SIN-FRA-JFK-FRA-SIN

Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:18 am

Quoting LH422 (Thread starter):

Good news for SQ and I expected that change as the SIN-FRA flight is rather long for the 744. The 380 will do just well on that route.

wilco737
  
 
santos
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RE: SQ Put A380 On SIN-FRA-JFK-FRA-SIN

Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:24 am

Quoting flythere (Reply 1):
Though on a side note, just wonder how would it impact the EWR-SIN operation.

Isn't SIN-EWR an A340-500 non stop with Bussiness Class only? I'm sure there is enought demand for a non stop service to NYC.
 
flythere
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RE: SQ Put A380 On SIN-FRA-JFK-FRA-SIN

Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:48 am

Quoting santos (Reply 3):
Isn't SIN-EWR an A340-500 non stop with Bussiness Class only? I'm sure there is enought demand for a non stop service to NYC.

Can it fill up the extra seats on the A380 then? Recall that the used to be daily LAX-SIN has shrinked to 5 weekly at the same time A380 was introduced to LAX via NRT, now both flights to LAX are underperforming and just barely breakeven.
 
Hirnie
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RE: SQ Put A380 On SIN-FRA-JFK-FRA-SIN

Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:48 am

With LH switching to A 380 to SIN this will be a nice boost in capacity between FRA and SIN.

Sad to see another daily 744 leaving FRA...
 
wilco737
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RE: SQ Put A380 On SIN-FRA-JFK-FRA-SIN

Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:54 am

Quoting Hirnie (Reply 5):
Sad to see another daily 744 leaving FRA...

Nicely said. Indeed sad. but I guess it is getting worse over the years.

Quoting Hirnie (Reply 5):
With LH switching to A 380 to SIN this will be a nice boost in capacity between FRA and SIN.

Maybe LH is switching back to 744/748i in summer again. Maybe 2 380s a day is too much for this route. And they are both leaving at the same time in SIN.

wilco737
  
 
qf002
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RE: SQ Put A380 On SIN-FRA-JFK-FRA-SIN

Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:57 am

Quoting santos (Reply 3):
sn't SIN-EWR an A340-500 non stop with Bussiness Class only? I'm sure there is enought demand for a non stop service to NYC.

Yes, and I agree that a 10 seat per day increase won't be too disastrous considering the route currently gets 150 J seats a day, and this is going up to 160. An increase of around 6-7% (not that that's not an insignificant increase!)


Quoting flythere (Reply 4):
Can it fill up the extra seats on the A380 then? Recall that the used to be daily LAX-SIN has shrinked to 5 weekly at the same time A380 was introduced to LAX via NRT, now both flights to LAX are underperforming and just barely breakeven.

Like I said, an extra 10 seats a day on a route that sees 150 a day at the moment isn't all that dangerous in my eyes. NYC is a far more premium market with greater J demand, and the nonstop flight serves quite a different market to the one stop flight (ie EWR, all J). With LAX it was just a matter of capacity going up too much, but with NYC it's really only capacity going up on JFK, with EWR in my eyes unaffected (or if it is then it'll be a matter of a couple of seats).
 
LH422
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RE: SQ Put A380 On SIN-FRA-JFK-FRA-SIN

Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:04 am

Quoting santos (Reply 3):
Isn't SIN-EWR an A340-500 non stop with Bussiness Class only?

This must be the reason they're not using the A380 with the all-business upper deck.

Many, including myself, had speculated that they would change something other than just substituting the B744 for the A380. This was because it appears that the flight is always full between SIN and FRA but fairly empty between FRA and JFK. Perhaps they hope the A380 will attract more pax (especially tourists) to New York.

FRA-JFK is currently served by LH on the A380, but will switch back to B744 for the winter. LH will then switch FRA-SIN from B744 to A380, so SQ will not have the first A380 on these routes.

SQ will be the third A380 operator at FRA, following LH and KE. Who will be the next?
 
wilco737
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RE: SQ Put A380 On SIN-FRA-JFK-FRA-SIN

Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:07 am

Quoting LH422 (Reply 8):
FRA-JFK is currently served by LH on the A380, but will switch back to B744 for the winter.

Looks like JFK will be 330s/340s during winter with LH.

Quoting LH422 (Reply 8):
Who will be the next?

EK maybe?

wilco737
  
 
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N14AZ
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RE: SQ Put A380 On SIN-FRA-JFK-FRA-SIN

Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:08 am

So how many operators will serve JFK with A 380s (subject to seasonal changes)?
1.) EK
2.) AF
3.) LH
4.) KE
5.) SQ

Or in other words - all current A 380-operators except for QF. Correct?
 
santos
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RE: SQ Put A380 On SIN-FRA-JFK-FRA-SIN

Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:12 am

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 10):
Or in other words - all current A 380-operators except for QF



And soon CZ - China Southern Airlines
 
Hirnie
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RE: SQ Put A380 On SIN-FRA-JFK-FRA-SIN

Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:25 am

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 9):
Who will be the next?
Quoting wilco737 (Reply 9):
EK maybe?

Or Thai? They already confirmed to send their A380 to FRA. But if they will be next or after EK I don't know.

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 6):
but I guess it is getting worse over the years

Over the past yaers we lost so many 747s. Only CX, QF, Air China and UA will be left, wehn SQ and Thai switch to A380 (not considering LH and freighters).

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 6):
Maybe LH is switching back to 744/748i in summer again

I think the 748 would do just fine on the route, taking all the capacity from MUC into consideration.
 
maxfly
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RE: SQ Put A380 On SIN-FRA-JFK-FRA-SIN

Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:30 am

Quoting Hirnie (Reply 12):

you forgot OZ, they still fly the 744 on ICN-FRA, however CA is one those lost services, the 744 having recently been replaced by the 77W on CA 931/932
 
blueflyer
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RE: SQ Put A380 On SIN-FRA-JFK-FRA-SIN

Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:34 am

Quoting flythere (Reply 1):
how would it impact the EWR-SIN operation.

Probably won't make much of a difference. The extra premium seats of the A380 will be snapped up for the SIN-FRA leg of the flight where there currently isn't enough capacity to meet demand on SQ26. Look for cheap seats on the FRA-JFK leg, however, where the 744 is more than enough already.

Besides, the timing of the two flights is distinct enough that the SIN-EWR is, in my opinion, a far better option than SIN-FRA-JFK. When you land in JFK, it isn't even mid-day yet and your body tells you it is past bed time (in Singapore). On SIN-EWR, a nap of a few hours before landing at 6 pm is enough to carry you to a "normal" East Coast bed time (or so it is in my experience anyway).

Throw in the passengers connecting in EWR with Star partner CO (there are a few, me included) and I don't see much risk to the SIN-EWR flight.
 
bonusonus
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RE: SQ Put A380 On SIN-FRA-JFK-FRA-SIN

Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:45 pm

It made sense that this was coming, even if the loads on the FRA-JFK route weren't the best. JFK is a flagship location for many international airlines, and I think SQ wants to put their flagship aircraft on it, even if it won't make them money right away. It definitely is possible that it will attract some more people to the route because of the aircraft. Maybe an advertising campaign is needed (EK seems to do a good job with this).
 
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EPA001
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RE: SQ Put A380 On SIN-FRA-JFK-FRA-SIN

Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:59 pm

Quoting LH422 (Thread starter):
Just got a newsletter from SQ that they will start A380 services on the former B744 route starting Jan 15, 2012. The flights will be operated with aircraft that have Y seating on the upper deck. The timing for SQ 25/26 will stay approximately the same:

Great news. That is another good change to fly the A380 again.  .
 
mozart
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RE: SQ Put A380 On SIN-FRA-JFK-FRA-SIN

Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:02 pm

I had hoped that the FRA-JFK was going to leave a bit later, just half an hour or so, that would have made some European transfer connections possible. A pity that hasn't happened.
 
dlphoenix
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RE: SQ Put A380 On SIN-FRA-JFK-FRA-SIN

Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:14 pm

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 14):
Probably won't make much of a difference. The extra premium seats of the A380 will be snapped up for the SIN-FRA leg of the flight where there currently isn't enough capacity to meet demand on SQ26. Look for cheap seats on the FRA-JFK leg, however, where the 744 is more than enough already.

SQ stands a chanche to take J passengers from LH on the FRA-JFK segment with a significanly superior product.
 
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robffm2
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RE: SQ Put A380 On SIN-FRA-JFK-FRA-SIN

Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:18 pm

Quoting dlphoenix (Reply 18):
SQ stands a chanche to take J passengers from LH on the FRA-JFK segment with a significanly superior product.

Has not happened in the past,why should it happen now?
 
washingtonian
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RE: SQ Put A380 On SIN-FRA-JFK-FRA-SIN

Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:22 pm

It's amazing that SQ is still sending the 744 to JFK. They are the last prestigious Asian airline to do so. I would have expected a 77W on FRA-JFK, but this is a nice surprise!
 
LH422
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RE: SQ Put A380 On SIN-FRA-JFK-FRA-SIN

Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:23 pm

 
SASDC8
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RE: SQ Put A380 On SIN-FRA-JFK-FRA-SIN

Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:29 pm

Great news as I now have another 380 flight to choose from to JFK  
Quoting blueflyer (Reply 14):
Look for cheap seats on the FRA-JFK leg, however, where the 744 is more than enough already.
I guess this means the end for "cheep" business and first tickets on SQ to JFK...
2-3-2 is NOT a premium configuration
 
panamair
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RE: SQ Put A380 On SIN-FRA-JFK-FRA-SIN

Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:32 pm

Quoting dlphoenix (Reply 18):
SQ stands a chanche to take J passengers from LH on the FRA-JFK segment with a significanly superior product

Doesn't matter how great SQ's product is, SQ has a 'home market' disadvantage in sectors such as FRA-JFK or NRT-LAX (also the A388): most people do not think of SQ when they want to fly between FRA and NYC or between TYO and LAX, so they discount heavily to gain whatever share they can get in such local markets. That's why SQ consistently offers some of the lowest Business class fares (Economy too, most of the time) in these markets. In the similar NRT-LAX market, SQ easily has the best J product now with the A388 but comes in consistently as the cheapest option; inferior products such as UA and DL price quite a way above SQ in the NRT-LAX market....
 
LH422
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RE: SQ Put A380 On SIN-FRA-JFK-FRA-SIN

Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:34 pm

Quoting SASDC8 (Reply 22):
I guess this means the end for "cheep" business and first tickets on SQ to JFK...

Not if you hurry up. It's still listed as B747-400 in the booking system...  

This would also be an opportunity to book First using miles and then getting upgraded to Suites when the equipment changes...
 
SASDC8
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RE: SQ Put A380 On SIN-FRA-JFK-FRA-SIN

Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:39 pm

Quoting LH422 (Reply 24):
Not if you hurry up. It's still listed as B747-400 in the booking system...  

Just saw that my self and I guess there is no cheaper way to fly Suites on a long haul flight than 4800 Euro to JFK  
Quoting LH422 (Reply 24):
This would also be an opportunity to book First using miles and then getting upgraded to Suites when the equipment changes...

I thought SQ had a bad habit of not honoring award tickets when F changes to Suites?
2-3-2 is NOT a premium configuration
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: SQ Put A380 On SIN-FRA-JFK-FRA-SIN

Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:40 pm

"SQ has a 'home market' disadvantage in sectors such as FRA-JFK "

I think if you are spending thousands on a business/first class ticket, you are a savvy, regular traveller. And if you are a savvy, regular traveller, you know this flight exists.

If JFK was not working for Singapore, they would have ended it upon entrance to EWR.
 
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Polot
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RE: SQ Put A380 On SIN-FRA-JFK-FRA-SIN

Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:44 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 26):
I think if you are spending thousands on a business/first class ticket, you are a savvy, regular traveller. And if you are a savvy, regular traveller, you know this flight exists.

Unless you are a savvy, regular business traveler to and around Asia, it is likely that you are very loyal to LH or one of the US carriers if you are frequently doing business in Frankfurt/Europe though.

That is of course assuming a savvy, regular business traveler knows that the flight exists, I wouldn't give them that much credit, they can be pretty stupid at times just like all the other regular pax. Half of them are probably not even choosing their own flights.
 
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OA260
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RE: SQ Put A380 On SIN-FRA-JFK-FRA-SIN

Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:57 pm

Great news and a great boost to FRA . I was wondering when they would get rid of this outdated product on the FRA-JFK route also ,
 
DUSdude
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RE: SQ Put A380 On SIN-FRA-JFK-FRA-SIN

Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:10 pm

Sad to see the 744 go, but looking forward to lying on the A380. I fly on SQ25/26 for the FRA-JFK segment regularly.
 
briguy1974
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RE: SQ Put A380 On SIN-FRA-JFK-FRA-SIN

Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:42 pm

Why not send the FRA flight to EWR to take full advantage of STAR connections????
 
bombayhog
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RE: SQ Put A380 On SIN-FRA-JFK-FRA-SIN

Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:44 pm

Quoting LH422 (Reply 24):
Not if you hurry up. It's still listed as B747-400 in the booking system...

This would also be an opportunity to book First using miles and then getting upgraded to Suites when the equipment changes...

First thing I thought of! Except SQ appears to be wise to this already--even though it's still a 744 in the booking system, there are no business or first seats available using miles for all of January, as far as I can see.
 
atlflyer
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RE: SQ Put A380 On SIN-FRA-JFK-FRA-SIN

Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:53 pm

During the stopover in FRA, do all passengers deplane (and reboard) or only those not continuing to JFK or SIN?
 
TR1
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RE: SQ Put A380 On SIN-FRA-JFK-FRA-SIN

Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:03 pm

Quoting ATLflyer (Reply 32):
During the stopover in FRA, do all passengers deplane (and reboard) or only those not continuing to JFK or SIN?



Everyone deplanes while the aircraft is being serviced in FRA. I took this flight last October.
 
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vegas005
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RE: SQ Put A380 On SIN-FRA-JFK-FRA-SIN

Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:04 pm

Hop aboard and you too will be denied frequent flyer miles unless flying on an expensive ticket. Cheapest Star Alliance carrier of the bunch...
 
blueflyer
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RE: SQ Put A380 On SIN-FRA-JFK-FRA-SIN

Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:06 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 26):
I think if you are spending thousands on a business/first class ticket, you are a savvy, regular traveller.

A lot of these "savvy, regular travelers" work for companies that would much prefer have a single corporate contract with LH that meets all their needs ex FRA rather than piecemeal contracts for specific routes, such as FRA-JFK. Corporate discounts are based both on market shares and volume. If a German company contracted to LH wants to carve out an exception for FRA-JFK, they need a pretty steep discount from SQ to make it worth their while.

At the other end of the route, replace LH by UA (nee CO), AA or DL and you'll understand why SQ doesn't have a big share of the corporate market between FRA and JFK.

Real-life example: If employees in our Frankfurt office wanted fly SQ between FRA and JFK, they would have to demonstrate to their manager that their schedule at either end makes it nearly impossible to use LH so unless they somehow need to make a lunch meeting near JFK, they can forget about it (notice I didn't mention fares).
 
BlueBus
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RE: SQ Put A380 On SIN-FRA-JFK-FRA-SIN

Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:23 pm

I am trying to think. Is this the first time where A380s are flown from different airlines on the same route?
 
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N14AZ
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RE: SQ Put A380 On SIN-FRA-JFK-FRA-SIN

Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:30 pm

Quoting BlueBus (Reply 36):
I am trying to think. Is this the first time where A380s are flown from different airlines on the same route?

No, I don't think so - Sydney - Signapore is a route operated by QF and SQ.
 
peanuts
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RE: SQ Put A380 On SIN-FRA-JFK-FRA-SIN

Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:50 pm

What does this SQ FRA-JFK leg "do" for StarAlliance? LH/SQ have no JV on this I believe right? I don't think this is building bridges, so to speak...

SQ and LH remind me a bit like KE and DL. Stand-offish "cooperation"...
 
nickofatlanta
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RE: SQ Put A380 On SIN-FRA-JFK-FRA-SIN

Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:13 pm

That's a lot of capacity on SIN-FRA each week:
SQ - 7xB77W; 7xA388
LH - 7xA388 (they've been marketing this quite heavily in Australia)
QF - 7xB744
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: SQ Put A380 On SIN-FRA-JFK-FRA-SIN

Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:15 pm

FRA-JFK could make another First to Fly the Singapore Airines A380 addition to my already busy list.

I could get me my favourite seat on the upper deck in whY class.
with possibly one of my fav' captains flying the plane.

15 January sounds very good to me.

Singapore Girl You're a Great Way to Fly

     
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
laca773
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RE: SQ Put A380 On SIN-FRA-JFK-FRA-SIN

Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:29 pm

Quoting flythere (Reply 4):
Can it fill up the extra seats on the A380 then? Recall that the used to be daily LAX-SIN has shrinked to 5 weekly at the same time A380 was introduced to LAX via NRT, now both flights to LAX are underperforming and just barely breakeven.

So how is SQ doing since they placed the A380 on the LAX-NRT market? Are they still going to reduce capacity in October with a downgauge to the 77W? I know several people who will only fly SQ to NRT.

Does EWR-SIN perform better than EWR-LAX or are they about the same?
 
dlphoenix
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RE: SQ Put A380 On SIN-FRA-JFK-FRA-SIN

Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:35 pm

Quoting robffm2 (Reply 19):
Has not happened in the past,why should it happen now?

Because the SQ J product on the 744 is similar to the LH J product. The SQ J product on the A388 is superior (flat bed, direct aisle access from every seat, etc.).

Quoting panamair (Reply 23):
Doesn't matter how great SQ's product is, SQ has a 'home market' disadvantage in sectors such as FRA-JFK or NRT-LAX (also the A388):
Quoting blueflyer (Reply 35):
A lot of these "savvy, regular travelers" work for companies that would much prefer have a single corporate contract with LH that meets all their needs ex FRA rather than piecemeal contracts for specific routes, such as FRA-JFK.
...
Real-life example: If employees in our Frankfurt office wanted fly SQ between FRA and JFK, they would have to demonstrate to their manager that their schedule at either end makes it nearly impossible to use LH so unless they somehow need to make a lunch meeting near JFK, they can forget about it (notice I didn't mention fares).

I don't think SQ will dominate the market, but they can offset the J capacity increase (10 seats/day) by taking a few customers who either:
- Use their own money.
- Work for companies with more sophisticated travel policies. (e.g. The company I work for has a corporate contract with UA, but we can book other airlines if the fare is cheaper and we must book the other airline if the difference is bigger than a predefined threshold).

Happy Travels
DLP
 
FlyboyOz
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RE: SQ Put A380 On SIN-FRA-JFK-FRA-SIN

Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:50 pm

I have flown on it once and it was a nice experience! SQ 25/26 is always full. Yeah that's why they need a bigger plane to fill more pax.
The Spirit of AustraliAN - Longreach
 
panamair
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RE: SQ Put A380 On SIN-FRA-JFK-FRA-SIN

Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:01 pm

Quoting peanuts (Reply 38):
What does this SQ FRA-JFK leg "do" for StarAlliance? LH/SQ have no JV on this I believe right? I don't think this is building bridges, so to speak...

No JV; they don't even codeshare on the route currently. In the beginning, LH did codeshare on SQ 25/26 for the FRA-JFK portion in addition to the FRA-SIN flights, but the codeshare was dropped after a couple of seasons, IIRC. No idea whether it was LH or SQ's idea to cancel the codeshare.
 
boacvc10
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RE: SQ Put A380 On SIN-FRA-JFK-FRA-SIN

Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:20 pm

Quoting LH422 (Thread starter):
SQ that they will start A380 services on the former B744 route starting Jan 15, 2012.

Now this is interesting, I have current booking on this flight (for departure: Jan 16,2012) on my return leg, SIN-(FRA)-JFK.

Is the A380 service going to be daily on the SQ25/SQ26 route? Would it be practical to assume the Jan 16 flight will indeed be a A380 aircraft? I was even given seat assignments, but didn't think (just think, an a.net person not asking!) what the aircraft type would be....

Any more details please?
Up, up and Away!
 
gigneil
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RE: SQ Put A380 On SIN-FRA-JFK-FRA-SIN

Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:27 pm

Quoting briguy1974 (Reply 30):
Why not send the FRA flight to EWR to take full advantage of STAR connections????

They take quite full advantage of connecting opportunities with a nonstop SIN-EWR.

NS
 
YYZAMS
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RE: SQ Put A380 On SIN-FRA-JFK-FRA-SIN

Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:54 pm

Curious about the 2 hour ground time in FRA...is it

really enough time to clean that big whale of a plane?
 
tullamarine
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RE: SQ Put A380 On SIN-FRA-JFK-FRA-SIN

Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:23 am

Quoting YYZAMS (Reply 47):
Curious about the 2 hour ground time in FRA...is it

really enough time to clean that big whale of a plane?

2 hours is more than enough. The A388 can turnaround in the same time as a 744. 3 bridges mean disembarkation is quicker than a 744 and cleaning is more a factor of how many staff you throw at the problem.

Given the commencement date of this service, this route is obviously being serviced by the original layout A388s currently on the MEL route which is switching to all 777s from January. Apparently MEL gets A380s back on one of its services after a few months hiatus. I assume these will be new format only.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
qf002
Posts: 3692
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:14 am

RE: SQ Put A380 On SIN-FRA-JFK-FRA-SIN

Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:35 am

Quoting YYZAMS (Reply 47):
Curious about the 2 hour ground time in FRA...is it

really enough time to clean that big whale of a plane?

All the A380s flying Australia-SIN-LHR have less than 90 minutes on the ground in SIN. More than plenty of time.

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