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764
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UA Takes Economy Plus Away From Premier

Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:38 pm

Didn't find this mentioned anywhere else, but the new Mileage Plus program no longer offers Economy Plus for Premiers (Silver). They say that you have access to Economy Plus at check-in, but of course everybody has access to those seats at check in, so that's no benefit. With this step they have removed the one and only benefit that has made me want to return to the new United after flying Delta for many years. Good job, United.......
 
zrs70
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RE: UA Takes Economy Plus Away From Premier

Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:41 pm

Poor/ misleading title to the thread. Premier still have access at check in, as your wrote. That's 24 hours in advance. And they don't have to pay a fee. Non UA elites still have to pay a fee.

Still, no question that the change is a downgrade for premiers, who in the current program get E+ at the time of reservation.

[Edited 2011-09-22 11:42:24]

[Edited 2011-09-22 11:51:14]
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gigneil
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RE: UA Takes Economy Plus Away From Premier

Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:41 pm

Yeah you're not quite right.

Everyone does not have access at checkin unless they pay for it. Premiers will still get it free.

NS
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: UA Takes Economy Plus Away From Premier

Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:41 pm

Quoting 764 (Thread starter):
They say that you have access to Economy Plus at check-in, but of course everybody has access to those seats at check in, so that's no benefit.

Not quite correct. The difference is that Premiers will have access to E+ for free, while everyone else (non-status) would have to pay for it....except in cases where all E- seats are already taken.

Admittedly, it's still a cut for Premiers, but not quite as bad as you are making it.
 
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kgaiflyer
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RE: UA Takes Economy Plus Away From Premier

Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:46 pm

Quoting 764 (Thread starter):
Didn't find this mentioned anywhere else, but the new Mileage Plus program no longer offers Economy Plus for Premiers (Silver). They say that you have access to Economy Plus at check-in, but of course everybody has access to those seats at check in, so that's no benefit. With this step they have removed the one and only benefit that has made me want to return to the new United after flying Delta for many years. Good job, United.......

For whatever reason, the thread on this was pulled.

The idea is that there should be benefits exclusive to each frequent flyer level. You can't become Silver and get it **all**. That would leave little incentive to become Gold, Platinum, or 1-K -- or to stay loyal to one carrier.

Plus -- this is the way **all** the legecies and AS and AC operate.
 
joeljack
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RE: UA Takes Economy Plus Away From Premier

Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:53 pm

Remember too that 1K's and Platinums and Gold's will all be upgraded by then. In the vast majority of cases, this will free up lots of seats for Premier Silver's to select. It really isn't much of a downgrade not choosing the seat until check-in. I really just wish they would have made it 48 hrs vs 24 hrs for being able to select a seat. Oh well.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: UA Takes Economy Plus Away From Premier

Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:07 pm

Quoting joeljack (Reply 5):
It really isn't much of a downgrade not choosing the seat until check-in.

United really missed a trick by not offering Silvers a discount on E+ Access. It's said to still be under consideration, but should have been part of the rollout announcement to at least appear to be throwing Silvers a bone.
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kiwiandrew

RE: UA Takes Economy Plus Away From Premier

Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:09 pm

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 3):
The difference is that Premiers will have access to E+ for free, while everyone else (non-status) would have to pay for it.
Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 6):
United really missed a trick by not offering Silvers a discount on E+ Access.

How much more of a discount do you want?
 
AeroWesty
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RE: UA Takes Economy Plus Away From Premier

Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:15 pm

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 7):
How much more of a discount do you want?

E+ Access is what, $425? It gives purchasers the option to select E+ at the time of booking, same as Silvers currently enjoy now. As UA will be taking that benefit away from Silver Premiers next year, Silvers could be offered a discounted pathway to retain that privilege in return for their loyalty, albeit small as it is.
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IrishAyes
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RE: UA Takes Economy Plus Away From Premier

Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:24 pm

This is obnoxious. I'm getting Premier next week, just as they make this announcement.

At least the premier line will still be an option.
 
mdtrunner
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RE: UA Takes Economy Plus Away From Premier

Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:28 pm

At time of check-in (24 hr in advance) there is almost always E+ seats available on most routes. The non Premier customer often doesn't do E+ seating until they're in the airport or don't feel the need to pay. Keep in mind too other Premier fliers get the seating as well and that's another way all the E+ could be filled. Still, the savvy Premier Silver customer will scoop them up with no troubles.
 
jacobin777
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RE: UA Takes Economy Plus Away From Premier

Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:33 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 8):

E+ Access is what, $425? It gives purchasers the option to select E+ at the time of booking, same as Silvers currently enjoy now. As UA will be taking that benefit away from Silver Premiers next year, Silvers could be offered a discounted pathway to retain that privilege in return for their loyalty, albeit small as it is.

It used to be only $350 a few years ago.....
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gigneil
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RE: UA Takes Economy Plus Away From Premier

Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:35 pm

Jesus, did none of you really read what was said?

They're not taking it away, silly people. Its still free, you still get it.

NS
 
RamblinMan
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RE: UA Takes Economy Plus Away From Premier

Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:48 pm

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 4):
For whatever reason, the thread on this was pulled.

It's in polls and prefs, at least I think that's the one you're talking about.

Quoting gigneil (Reply 12):
They're not taking it away, silly people. Its still free, you still get it.

Mmmm... big difference though. Silvers now only get to pick the E+ seats that are leftover at check-in. Non-elites who have purchased the "annual option" are now ahead of you.

I know ancillary revenue is the name of the game these days, but at some point selling elite benefits will backfire as the whole program is diluted.
 
Prinair
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RE: UA Takes Economy Plus Away From Premier

Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:52 pm

Funny how at all of the airlines that I have worked the low end elite/premiers are worse prima donnas than those on higher levels. While all customers deserve courtesy and efficiency at all times, these passengers should remember that many of these perks are privileges and not god given rights.
PRINAIR - Puerto Rico International Airlines
 
AeroWesty
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RE: UA Takes Economy Plus Away From Premier

Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:02 pm

Quoting RamblinMan (Reply 13):
Quoting gigneil (Reply 12):
They're not taking it away, silly people. Its still free, you still get it.

Mmmm... big difference though. Silvers now only get to pick the E+ seats that are leftover at check-in. Non-elites who have purchased the "annual option" are now ahead of you.

  

Throwing Silvers a discount for the purchased E+ option could have gone a long way to dampen their anger with the new program.

[Edited 2011-09-22 13:06:01]
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nutsaboutplanes
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RE: UA Takes Economy Plus Away From Premier

Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:10 pm

Smart decision by UA IMO. This gives them the opportunity to sell those revenue generating premium seats up until the day of departure........this is good business. If all of those seats are being filled by people who are not paying the premium for them, whats the point in having E+? You could throw more seats on the jet and come out ahead if you were not seeing a return on the E+ seats.

I think this is a good compromise by UA, they didn't say that premiers couldn't get the seats, they just took the opportunity to up-sell the premium seats as opposed to giving them away.
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RamblinMan
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RE: UA Takes Economy Plus Away From Premier

Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:19 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 15):
Personally, I would have been more upset with the RDM bonus reduction, but different strokes for different folks.

Oh believe me that hasn't gone unnoticed. No difference for the lowest tier or the highest tier...but it's a BIG drawback for the 2 in the middle. If I were a "gold" now making only a 50% bonus I would be seriously considering whether another carrier could meet my needs.

Quoting Prinair (Reply 14):
Funny how at all of the airlines that I have worked the low end elite/premiers are worse prima donnas than those on higher levels. While all customers deserve courtesy and efficiency at all times, these passengers should remember that many of these perks are privileges and not god given rights.

Having been among that group in some years I take issue with your blanket characterization. Maybe it's because I don't make it every year, but I appreciate all perks that are available and I don't think I expect too much.

Furthermore, I don't think anyone is being a "prima donna" by not liking the changes UA has announced...they are a direct reduction of the benefits that elites have been enjoying for years and places UA's elite program behind some other major carriers.
 
RamblinMan
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RE: UA Takes Economy Plus Away From Premier

Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:28 pm

Quoting Nutsaboutplanes (Reply 16):
If all of those seats are being filled by people who are not paying the premium for them, whats the point in having E+?

Nope, no point at all in keeping the elites happy so they keep coming back year after year. Much better to extract a one-time $39 from your occasional customer and be done with it.
 
frmrCapCadet
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RE: UA Takes Economy Plus Away From Premier

Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:35 pm

Quoting Prinair (Reply 14):
Funny how at all of the airlines that I have worked the low end elite/premiers are worse prima donnas than those on higher levels. While all customers deserve courtesy and efficiency at all times, these passengers should remember that many of these perks are privileges and not god given rights.

Repeatedly airlines and their employees seem to hold their economy passengers in low esteem and find it OK to call them names. Considering that no airline has been able to survive without having the back of the plane full..... I have found far too little courtesy and efficiency on almost 1/3rd of the flights I have been on in the past few years. I didn't complain - just fly far less.
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slimshady
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RE: UA Takes Economy Plus Away From Premier

Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:39 pm

Quoting Prinair (Reply 14):
Funny how at all of the airlines that I have worked the low end elite/premiers are worse prima donnas than those on higher levels. While all customers deserve courtesy and efficiency at all times, these passengers should remember that many of these perks are privileges and not god given rights

Just remember, and just trying to be objective here, not everyone works at an airline, and when we travel, us "civilians" look forward to what little perks we have earned when we travel. We cant buy an upgrade even to an economy plus seat. I am a silver and always look forward to an E+ seat, because I EARNED it. Nothing is worse than going from SFO-PVG in 31" seat pitch. (I am 6'3")... 35" seat pitch is at least tolerable to me. I know "stuff" happens and we cant always get what we want especially after a long stressful business trip, and I am sure there are bad apples that spoil the bunch. When you work for a penny-pinching company like i do, I COUNT on those perks I EARNED. Just remember, us customers pay your salary and we are not all whiny and demanding even though we are just cattle to a lot of airport workers. Us "civilians" have miserable jobs and we hate our employers and customers too.
 
blueflyer
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RE: UA Takes Economy Plus Away From Premier

Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:43 pm

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 4):
Plus -- this is the way **all** the legecies and AS and AC operate.

Actually, UA is more generous than AC still, at least for most passengers. Even AC's top tier elites get free access to Preferred Seats only on certain coach fares. If they buy the cheapest coach ticket, they compete against everyone else, they get neither discount nor early access.

On the other hand, passengers who earned Star Gold status with another carrier are treated like middle tier AC elites for Preferred Seats, meaning they get them for free if they book the highest coach fares on AC (Latitude), something UA doesn't do.

In fact, as a Star Gold customer, I get better service/recognition on AC than on any other carrier, save the one I earned my status with. I think that's pretty smart marketing on behalf of AC.

Quoting RamblinMan (Reply 13):
Non-elites who have purchased the "annual option" are now ahead of you.

They were already ahead of you if the booked before you, and since this kind of program is (or was) likely to attract mostly occasional fliers who want the perks they cannot get by status, they were already ahead of you anyway as they tend to book early for the best fares.

Quoting Prinair (Reply 14):
Funny how at all of the airlines that I have worked the low end elite/premiers are worse prima donnas than those on higher levels.

Oooohh trust me if I see a lowly silver boarding ahead of me on the blue carpet, I throw one of these tantrums you need a DC8 at full thrust to drown out. Back of the line is where they belong!



(yes it is sarcasm in case you missed it)

(edited out 'cause it'll bite me in the you-know-what one day)

[Edited 2011-09-22 13:53:01]
 
gullairACK
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RE: UA Takes Economy Plus Away From Premier

Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:27 pm

Quoting Prinair (Reply 14):
Funny how at all of the airlines that I have worked the low end elite/premiers are worse prima donnas than those on higher levels. While all customers deserve courtesy and efficiency at all times, these passengers should remember that many of these perks are privileges and not god given rights.



Hmmm, not much tact here considering the open forum. But I will try and help him out of the hole, hoping I don't make it worse...

I think his generalisation should be seen as a personal observation. I used to be the agent at the gate/ticket desk and I always preferred to work the first class/Elite lines. Road Warriors were more accepting of commonplace disruptions like ATC in the Northeast corridor, snow, summer thunderstorms every afternoon, etc... They didn't like them any more than anyone else, but it was never a first time occurance. I found they generally appreciated my service even if it did not get them home as planned. This preference would completely unravel when presented with a reissue to the South Pacific using 3 residual refund processed tickets just before closing...only happens in Elite lines (keeps your skills sharp though).

Elites were very aware of their perks and as time went on, automation of the perks made it so that the airport agent had very little decision making to do. Elites gained more control of their airport/inflight experience and we took alot less flack for failed expectations. As a result, these days, agents receive the upgrade queries from the medium level Elite tiers and it give the appearance of a group asking more questions....and showing their reaction more than Golds, Platinum's.

My memory of tough customer stereotypes?... A university student in the Northeast holding a copy of Dad's Gold card flying on the shuttle on a Friday night blagging an upgrade or lounge access while on their mobile. Add snow, ATC and thunderstorm and their performance is just not pretty. In a few years, they become successful, mellow out and become a Gold Elite that is perfectly enjoyable to deal with. They just need experience on their side.
 
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kgaiflyer
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RE: UA Takes Economy Plus Away From Premier

Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:49 pm

Quoting RamblinMan (Reply 13):
I know ancillary revenue is the name of the game these days, but at some point selling elite benefits will backfire as the whole program is diluted.

Uum -- like charging fees for luggage will backfire?
 
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kgaiflyer
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RE: UA Takes Economy Plus Away From Premier

Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:50 pm

Quoting Prinair (Reply 14):
Funny how at all of the airlines that I have worked the low end elite/premiers are worse prima donnas than those on higher levels.


That's funny.

I was thinking the same thing.
 
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kgaiflyer
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RE: UA Takes Economy Plus Away From Premier

Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:57 pm

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 21):
Actually, UA is more generous than AC still, at least for most passengers. Even AC's top tier elites get free access to Preferred Seats only on certain coach fares. If they buy the cheapest coach ticket, they compete against everyone else, they get neither discount nor early access.

True.

And in addition, at lower AC elite levels, you get only 25% of flown miles -- unless you agree to pay a fee.
 
RamblinMan
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RE: UA Takes Economy Plus Away From Premier

Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:10 pm

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 23):
Uum -- like charging fees for luggage will backfire?

Not even remotely the same thing, but a line typical of an airline apologist. And it may very well have backfired in the form of longer turnaround times but I'm just going on personal observation so I won't make a definitive statement either way. Oh and there was that other thread about AA vs UA in Chicago that showed both of them are almost the exact same size they were 10 yrs ago while WN has quadrupled... makes you wonder.

Quoting GullAirACK (Reply 22):
these days, agents receive the upgrade queries from the medium level Elite tiers and it give the appearance of a group asking more questions....and showing their reaction more than Golds, Platinum's.

It's obvious to me that you understand that part of the job is answering questions over and over again, and certain other CSRs do not.
 
mdtrunner
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RE: UA Takes Economy Plus Away From Premier

Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:35 pm

Quoting RamblinMan (Reply 26):
Not even remotely the same thing, but a line typical of an airline apologist. And it may very well have backfired in the form of longer turnaround times but I'm just going on personal observation so I won't make a definitive statement either way. Oh and there was that other thread about AA vs UA in Chicago that showed both of them are almost the exact same size they were 10 yrs ago while WN has quadrupled... makes you wonder.

But we'll see about the next 10. If you want to have a fare argument for AA vs. UA vs. WN let's start a new thread and do it. At some point the free bags start to come back. And bag charges are a few years old, if you really believe they have a lot of do with AA and UA not growing and WN expanding I'd like to see something concrete to back that up. That's a rather bold assertion.
 
m11stephen
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RE: UA Takes Economy Plus Away From Premier

Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:35 pm

Quoting Prinair (Reply 14):
Funny how at all of the airlines that I have worked the low end elite/premiers are worse prima donnas than those on higher levels. While all customers deserve courtesy and efficiency at all times, these passengers should remember that many of these perks are privileges and not god given rights.

All the airline is entitled to do is to get you from point A to point B safely. Anything other then that is icing on the cake. While I will do everything I can to get an elite upgraded, get them the seat they want, etc. there is only so much I can do. A premier is not entitled to a seat in first class. It is a courtesey the airline extends to them as a "thankyou" for flying with us. If available, they will get one after all Global Service, 1K and Premier Executive passengers have been accommodated.

Quoting frmrCapCadet (Reply 19):
Repeatedly airlines and their employees seem to hold their economy passengers in low esteem and find it OK to call them names. Considering that no airline has been able to survive without having the back of the plane full..... I have found far too little courtesy and efficiency on almost 1/3rd of the flights I have been on in the past few years. I didn't complain - just fly far less.

When you pay 99$ for a ticket from JFK-LAX what do you expect? I find it hard to believe that any airline employee, whether it be a CSA or an F/A, would call economy passengers name or intentionally be disrespectful to them.

Quoting GullAirACK (Reply 22):
My memory of tough customer stereotypes?... A university student in the Northeast holding a copy of Dad's Gold card flying on the shuttle on a Friday night blagging an upgrade or lounge access while on their mobile. Add snow, ATC and thunderstorm and their performance is just not pretty. In a few years, they become successful, mellow out and become a Gold Elite that is perfectly enjoyable to deal with. They just need experience on their side.

I have had nothing but great experiences (knock on wood) with our Global Service passengers. In general most of our elite passengers are a joy to deal with. I did have one 1K completely go off on me and start screaming when I suggested that she use the kiosk because my computer was down at the moment and the CPU was smoking. She screamed, "I'm a 1K! I don't use kiosks! I pay your salary!" She also copped an attitude with me when she learned that the flight was full and she couldn't have any seat that she wanted...   I don't care who you are, I don't get payed enough to deal with people like that. Also, if you harass or try to intimidate a member of the ground crew what's to say that you won't harass, intimidate, or interfere with one of our flight attendants if they make a request to fasten your seatbelt, bring your seatback upright, etc? 99% of my passengers are great and I will do everything I can for them. But the other 1% of people make me want to scream.
My opinions, statements, etc. are my own and do not have any association with those of any employer.
 
delta2ual
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RE: UA Takes Economy Plus Away From Premier

Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:16 pm

Quoting slimshady (Reply 20):
Just remember, us customers pay your salary

I agree with most of what you said, but this line gets old. We ALL pay everyone's salary. It doesn't matter if you work in the private sector, government, or if you sell airline tickets or pacemakers. This is like saying the customer is "always" right-and I think we know that is certainly not the case.

As for "earning" these perks, I wish every airline would follow the model that WestJet uses. The more money you SPEND, the more you earn. Take away all the rental car, credit cards, etc. airline miles. The people who spend the most should be treated the best. I feel like these airline loyalty programs have created some real problems. I have personally witnessed grown men acting like my 5 year old nephew over upgrades. It's embarrassing.
From the world's largest airline-to the world's largest airline. Delta2ual
 
RamblinMan
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RE: UA Takes Economy Plus Away From Premier

Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:24 pm

Quoting MDTrunner (Reply 27):
If you want to have a fare argument for AA vs. UA vs. WN let's start a new thread and do it.

I don't want any such thing, at least not here. Please read the post I was replying to so that you understand the point before you risk derailing the thread.

Quoting m11stephen (Reply 28):
When you pay 99$ for a ticket from JFK-LAX what do you expect?

A- maybe that was normal in 2005 but I haven't seen a fare like that in a long time (AA's DFW sale notwithstanding).
B- even if I did pay that much, I expect not to be treated like my business is unwanted. If the airline puts up seats for sale at a super-low price, it's because they want to put some butts in those seats.

Quoting m11stephen (Reply 28):
But the other 1% of people make me want to scream.

If it makes you feel any better, they often make the other pax want to scream as well.
 
frmrCapCadet
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RE: UA Takes Economy Plus Away From Premier

Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:35 pm

Quoting m11stephen (Reply 28):
When you pay 99$ for a ticket from JFK-LAX what do you expect? I find it hard to believe that any airline employee, whether it be a CSA or an F/A, would call economy passengers name or intentionally be disrespectful to them.

I have never got that sort of bargain on any ticket I have got. The quote I answered called elites "primma donnas", which is at least name calling. Like I said, I have not argued with or been rude to any FA, nor called customer service nor written a letter of complaint. Just fly less. You make my point.

ps - why is your company selling those seats for $99 - it may be all they are worth?
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Chinook747
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RE: UA Takes Economy Plus Away From Premier

Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:57 pm

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 25):
And in addition, at lower AC elite levels, you get only 25% of flown miles -- unless you agree to pay a fee.

This is not quite true..with Air Canada you receive mileage accrual based on the fare you have purchased regardless of your status. If you have purchased a domestic Tango fare then you will accrue at 25% and then based on your status you will receive bonus accrual based on your status, ie: Prestige: 25% bonus, Elite: 50% bonus and Super Elite at 100% bonus tier.
 
kfitz
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RE: UA Takes Economy Plus Away From Premier

Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:58 pm

To those suggesting a discounted annual E+ pass for Silvers, this is in fact something that UA is considering per UAInsider on FT.

As far as dillution of premier (now premier silver) beneifts, consider that the airline values you, yes, but objectively speaking, not nearly as much as every successive higher tier. I see some silvers here acting like they deserve the world because they have earned the entry level status in the FF program. UA obviously made a conscious decision to open up more E+ inventory to higher tier levels. It makes sense of the plan is to make higher tier (and higher revenue) elite tiers happy.
 
jgw787
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RE: UA Takes Economy Plus Away From Premier

Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:44 am

While yes airlines have to make the upper tiers have more luxurious, us UA flyers have for years considered E+ and base line perk for elites.
 
RamblinMan
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RE: UA Takes Economy Plus Away From Premier

Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:51 am

Quoting kfitz (Reply 33):
I see some silvers here acting like they deserve the world because they have earned the entry level status in the FF program.

And I see some higher level elites here acting like silvers shouldn't be entitled to anything at all. After all, what the hell kind of loyalty is a mere 25000 miles a year?

Nobody is acting like they deserve the world, just disliking the fact that the program details announced today are a pretty big cut. I know SkyPesos is the program everybody on here loves to hate but as a silver elite with DL I had about a 50% success rate getting upgraded to FIRST CLASS and here we are talking whether the UA equivalent should be automatically entitled to decent economy seats. Gimme a break.
 
Prinair
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RE: UA Takes Economy Plus Away From Premier

Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:53 am

Quoting m11stephen (Reply 28):
99% of my passengers are great and I will do everything I can for them. But the other 1% of people make me want to scream.

Totally agree.

Quoting delta2ual (Reply 29):
I have personally witnessed grown men acting like my 5 year old nephew over upgrades. It's embarrassing.

I see this almost every day and sometimes more than once per day.

My post had nothing to with class of service paid. I am simply stating that some members of the lower end elite tiers seem to have more of an elitist attitude while most members of the higher levels seem to be more in-tune with their program. Perhaps it is a lack of experience as was mentioned here or it might be that they are just plain rude....

I certainly believe that they have earned their status and the airline should offer certain perks or benefits to reward them but they should remember that those are privileges associated to their status and are not rights. Usually those on the higher levels are better informed and more understanding of their benefits. As an agent I would certainly do everything within my reach to make sure that you are provided all benefits and amenities you are entitled according to your tier or level but as mentioned on this forum there are some bad apples that seen to think the world revolves around them.

I am also a firm believer that all passengers should be treated with courtesy and provided with the proper assistance regardless of fare paid or frequent flyer status.... I do believe that most airline employees strive to do this every day despite of the treatment they receive from a minority of passengers.
PRINAIR - Puerto Rico International Airlines
 
N960AS
Posts: 436
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RE: UA Takes Economy Plus Away From Premier

Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:43 am

I'm Premier (I'm going to avoid the new nomenclature) and while this cut is of course unwelcome it's not a big deal. I typically go online about 2 days before my flights and find that E+ is emptied out with Premier Exec, 1K, GS upgraded by then and so I can switch seats (within E+) if I desire.

Also, UA is cutting the 2nd bag free and reducing the UDU window to 24 hours for us. I'm not expecting the world as Premier but this just gives me fewer and fewer reasons why I shouldn't fly jetBlue or even Southwest. We'll see...
 
Calibansa333
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RE: UA Takes Economy Plus Away From Premier

Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:51 am

Well this is too bad for UA. They had a foot up on their biggest competitor in the states, DL, because of the complimentary E plus seats and now the DL and UA silver program benefits are pretty much identical. In my opinion this is a bad move, with complimentary E plus they would have at least had a little something more to offer frequent flyers deciding between DL and UA. This may cause them to loose a little business in the long run.
 
ikramerica
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RE: UA Takes Economy Plus Away From Premier

Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:16 am

Quoting m11stephen (Reply 28):
When you pay 99$ for a ticket from JFK-LAX what do you expect? I find it hard to believe that any airline employee, whether it be a CSA or an F/A, would call economy passengers name or intentionally be disrespectful to them.

Where can you get that fare? I've been trying and the best I can do is nearly $300 rt at awful departure times.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
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fbgdavidson
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RE: UA Takes Economy Plus Away From Premier

Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:25 am

Quoting joeljack (Reply 5):
Remember too that 1K's and Platinums and Gold's will all be upgraded by then. In the vast majority of cases, this will free up lots of seats for Premier Silver's to select.

...and free up room for all those extra apostrophes  
Quoting RamblinMan (Reply 13):
I know ancillary revenue is the name of the game these days, but at some point selling elite benefits will backfire as the whole program is diluted.

With United it's all become a bit silly, you can buy all the elite benefits clearly during the buying process.

Quoting Nutsaboutplanes (Reply 16):
If all of those seats are being filled by people who are not paying the premium for them, whats the point in having E+?

Because it's an incentive for elites   If I were flying a small amount of miles p.a. and wanted to credit to a US carrier I'd certainly look to United over the other carriers for that very reason. Then again maybe I value comfort more than yourself.

Quoting slimshady (Reply 20):
Us "civilians" have miserable jobs and we hate our employers and customers too.

Monster.com....or if you're 1K or Global Services maybe theladders.com  
"My first job was selling doors, door to door, that's a tough job innit" - Bill Bailey
 
764
Topic Author
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RE: UA Takes Economy Plus Away From Premier

Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:36 am

Honestly, I'd much rather give up UDU than complimentary E+. Most of my trips are international and even in E+, there are now five seats per row on the 777 that I'd rather not be in (middle seats and those further than one from the aisle). So picking my seat in advance is indeed a big advantage.

In a way, E+ has been a way for those of us who fly 25K-49K miles per year to maintain many of the benefits that all Economy passengers used of enjoy some 10+ years ago. I don't think that many of us expect to be treated like royalty, but rather like the fairly frequent travelers that we are. When airlines started taking things away from regular Eco passengers, we were somewhat shielded from that reduction as a reward for our loyalty. Now we're pushed down the same slope that "once-a-year vacation fliers" have gone down before. This is just frustrating.

Even the higher tiers have lost many benefits. It appears that United is trying to move away from awarding passengers for loyalty and instead wants to categorize passengers entirely by the amount of money they spend.... I wouldn't at all be surprised if they'd put the top tiers up for sale soon. Want to purchase 1K status for 10K$? Lifetime 1K for 100K$? Might sound unlikely, but I wouldn't be surprised....
 
DLD9S
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RE: UA Takes Economy Plus Away From Premier

Fri Sep 23, 2011 4:04 am

So many people complained about UA's attempt to charge for meals on IAD to Europe flights that they rolled it back before it ever started.

Let UA know how you feel and maybe it will change. If they don't roll it back, email DL and encourage them to expand Econ Comfort and maybe the rumor will come true.

http://faq.ua2go.com/display/4/kb/atr/index.aspx?tab=atr&r=0.4694507
717 727 737 747 757 767 777 DC9 DC10 M80 M90 M11 L10 AB6 333 340 319 320 321 ARJ CRJ EM2 EMJ SF3 146 100 BE1...
 
kfitz
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RE: UA Takes Economy Plus Away From Premier

Fri Sep 23, 2011 4:37 am

the revenue requirements outlined in the "leaked" 2012 program sneak peak were all dropped, so the attempt to purport there are still there for all listed tiers (not GS) is a bit silly, as well as simply untrue. And lets not forget that lowly 1P/2Ps gained tremendously from the "democratization" of the boarding process (the complete CF/zoo/circus/carnival that is now elite boarding at UA) and the "Premier Access" checking counters.

The reality is, the premier silver level's beneifits are fully in line with the rest of the industry. You want to go be a SkyPesos convert, with all of its absolutely bottom of the barrel qualities then go ahead; Don't let the Mileage Plus door hit you on the way out.

I do know that its difficult for some to hear, but UA has no problem saying goodbye to low tier elites who dont contribute substantial revenue relative to higher tiers. Essentially the flyers who book the constant lowest fare class they can find, who rack up PremierExec/1K status while only contributing a few thousands in revenue each year. I know those black sheep have got to keep Smisek up at night.

In sum, something had to give in the revised program of what is now the worlds #1 airline, especially when SkyMiles in a shameless race to the absolute bottom in most every respect (award windows, qualifications, redemption of award inventory, etc.), ultimaty cementing its status as the worst FF program among network carriers.

If we compare the 2012 MileagePlus to SkyPesos, one clealry still comes off as the more structurally favorable to all members. And really, it puts all this criticism in perspective. I'm no fan of many of Smisek's bean counter moves (removal of pillows from domestic F, downgrading Transpacific midflight snack offerings, downgrading RCC foods and alcohol, dilluting 1k boarding, etc.), but I think in this case, Smisek and Jeff Foland, President of MileagePlus, signed off on a blanced, competitive and reasonably fair program on a whole. The reaction has been overwhelmingly positive, and rightfully so.
 
nutsaboutplanes
Posts: 545
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RE: UA Takes Economy Plus Away From Premier

Fri Sep 23, 2011 4:45 am

Quoting fbgdavidson (Reply 40):
Because it's an incentive for elites If I were flying a small amount of miles p.a. and wanted to credit to a US carrier I'd certainly look to United over the other carriers for that very reason. Then again maybe I value comfort more than yourself.

I think its an incentive to reach the next tier of status. Most of the people that we are talking about here have a huge bulk of miles built up and because most people are creatures of habit, they likely will not defect to AA, DL or any other carrier in any significant number. This was a revenue driven decision and while their may be a short term backlash, every change brings some complaint and then people learn to live with it.

I look at AS's situation now because its of a smaller scale. They are the primary carrier in SEA and they have built a huge frequent flier base. So big in fact, that so many people hold status that there is a bottleneck and they feel like they can never exercise their status for upgrades....particularly on routes like SEA-DCA and SEA-SJC....its crazy to watch the pre-boarding process when they invite MVP's to board, its half the plane.......except for those who hover like vultures over the gate agent waiting for a first class seat to open up.

The lower tier is becoming so crowded that it doesn't benefit people most of the time anymore unless you are not traveling at peak times. Upgrades and family seating are the two biggest issues that gate agents put up with ......I should probably throw carry on bags in there too. I know there has been some criticism of the lower tier frequent fliers on this thread and I have witnessed these interactions myself.....although, its a small number.

I do value comfort.....but if I want to guarantee that I will get it, I pay for it in advance.

[Edited 2011-09-22 21:49:27]

[Edited 2011-09-22 21:50:30]
American Airlines, US Airways, Alaska Airlines, Northwest Airlines, America West Airlines, USAFR
 
AA767LOVER
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RE: UA Takes Economy Plus Away From Premier

Fri Sep 23, 2011 4:59 am

25,000 miles is not really peanuts you know? Not everyone can afford to fly that much. To have E+ on long haul routes and high density routes will help a lot. Free upgrades are a joke for current Premier as it is. It is basically non-existent. They expect you to use your miles if you really want to upgrade. If it is as they say, then I'm going back to Oneworld and Skyteam in 2013. I have no need to make Elite anyways as my work doesn't require me to travel much anyways. But seeing that my habit of going to North America twice a year from HKG is going down to almost once every two years, the need for Elite is zilch.
J.I. Tsui, American Advantage Member, United Mileage Plus (Premier)
 
genybustrvlr
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RE: UA Takes Economy Plus Away From Premier

Fri Sep 23, 2011 5:12 am

Kudus United. 25K miles is too low a barrier to entry. It's only about 5 RT transcon or 3 RT International and there are just too many people with access. I wish they revoked the security line privileges for premier silver too. Let them board early, get their overhead, and call it a day.
 
kfitz
Posts: 140
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RE: UA Takes Economy Plus Away From Premier

Fri Sep 23, 2011 5:24 am

Quoting AA767LOVER (Reply 45):
25,000 miles is not really peanuts you know? Not everyone can afford to fly that much. To have E+ on long haul routes and high density routes will help a lot. Free upgrades are a joke for current Premier as it is. It is basically non-existent. They expect you to use your miles if you really want to upgrade. If it is as they say, then I'm going back to Oneworld and Skyteam in 2013. I have no need to make Elite anyways as my work doesn't require me to travel much anyways. But seeing that my habit of going to North America twice a year from HKG is going down to almost once every two years, the need for Elite is zilch.

If the insinuation is that air travel is too costly for people to be able to afford - come on, you know the truth falls in the opposite direction. The point I'm making is that 25,000 is essentially nothing in the grand scheme of the FF program. Your biggest benefit is free checked back (which was also devalued).

UA shouldn't be chasing those who can't "afford to fly that much", and in fact, they make it known that their best and preferred customers are those who can have their worth valued in revenue - their business travelers. Not to mention, those that "can't afford to fly" probably are the last people who have any business being part of a FF program, even in the entry level tier. Yet it's always those who want to pay as least as possible, in the cheapest fare bucket, that also seem to demand the highest amount of elite privileges. Posts in this thread verify the truth of that. The idea that a Premier Silver is "entitled" to E+ no questions asked, and if that is taken away, the only solution is to pack up and leave for AAdvantage of SkyMiles is simply preposterous. I think some FFs
 
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kgaiflyer
Posts: 2741
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:22 am

RE: UA Takes Economy Plus Away From Premier

Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:13 am

Quoting kfitz (Reply 47):
Posts in this thread verify the truth of that. The idea that a Premier Silver is "entitled" to E+ no questions asked, and if that is taken away, the only solution is to pack up and leave for AAdvantage of SkyMiles is simply preposterous.

The funny thing is that -- having formerly been both an AA Gold and a NWA Platinum -- their programs work exactly the same way.

Farewell to the ones who don't want to work at becoming an elite (like - someone gave us our 1-K status) .
 
abibus
Posts: 50
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 5:46 pm

RE: UA Takes Economy Plus Away From Premier

Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:23 am

Sorry if i am asking for skyteam but i am Elite there and i Never feel a diffrence between being a Elite member or Not what is the difrence and how can i get up Grades???

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