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B747-4U3
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:43 am

Quoting LX138 (Reply 47):

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 36):
SCL-Europe is low yielding? Tell that to AF!

I didn't say it was low yielding in general, I mean that BA require a certain yield to find the justification to operate it, even if they can make money.

I think that was certainly true in the past, however now I am not so sure. I believe BA have said that all new routes (or was it new aircraft?) will be operated with the mixed fleet crew which have significantly lower costs. I would imagine that the savings that the cheaper crew bring might make some previously unviable routes viable.

Quoting LX138 (Reply 47):
Quoting bestwestern (Reply 40):
BA have a 777 that sits in HKG for the best part of an afternoon. If they do return to MNL - it will be a tag onto the HKG flight.

Which is what they did back in the old days wasn't it? The problem is that MNL is famous for being low-yielding to just about anywhere, so BA in the past have decided that paying for another set of landing and navigation fees, handling costs, and crewing a flight over to MNL is just not covered by the ticket prices they could get.

I think part of the problem was that they had sufficient demand to Hong Kong to fill a flight on its own. The Manila tag-on was filling seats that could otherwise have been filled with more lucrative passengers to Hong Kong.

I think the only way MNL could work is a non-stop flight as it will give BA an advantage over the likes of Emirates and Cathay Pacific, however I'm not sure the yield would be there.

Quoting LX138 (Reply 47):
I think its interesting because on paper a BA LHR-TPE flight seems doomed. But then you think how non-existent the brands of China Airlines and EVA are over here and you wonder if the BA flight would stand out? Theres an enormous amount of student traffic to TPE ex LHR, and the tickets are insanely expensive, I've done it twice!

The problem is, what are non-existent brands? Some friends of mine have booked flights with Etihad which they'd never heard of before. I believe that they have 3 or 4 daily flights into Heathrow so they are hardly a small player.

China Airlines have recently cut the frequency from 3 to 2 per week. Whenever I've looked, their fares to Taipei have been quite reasonable provided you are flexible with dates. EVA go via Bangkok, and again they are often the cheapest non-stop option to Bangkok from London in both Economy and Business and I imagine that that is how they manage to fill their planes. I'm not sure how many through-passengers to Taipei they carry.

The problem with relying on student traffic is that it is seasonal, limited to a few weeks before and a few weeks after the term and is price sensitive.
 
vv701
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Sun Sep 25, 2011 12:19 pm

Quoting PEET7G (Reply 3):
Ok everyone, allow me to look stupid, but I have no freaking idea how slots are handled, I mean how they trade at LHR. Does these 6 slot pairs have specific sizes? I mean what can BA use them for? Heavies, Super heavies, or single aisle planes? Is there even such restrictions on slots at LHR, or the owner can puzzle with their slots around to best fit their operations?

Stupid? Hardly. Few if any of us fully understand all the ins and outs of LHR slot sales, leases and exchanges. But I do know that until recently direct trading in LHR slots (or any other EU slots) was theoretically illegal. This is no longer true. So thew slot coordinator, Airport Coordination Ltd, now have a Slot Trade section on their web site at

http://www.acl-uk.org/

While I do not dispute what others have said about an LHR arrival or departure slot being no more or less than that - an authority for an aircraft to arrive or depart within a specified 5 minute period - there are certainly other considerations. For example the reports on the above web site talk of "Runway Scheduling Limits" (which are the slots we are discussing here). But it also talks of and quantifies "Terminal Scheduling Limits" (which are the hourly maximum passenger throughput figures for each terminal divided where appropriate into "International" and "Domestic" passengers) and "Stand Scheduling Limits" (which are the maximum number of aircraft of each size category for which stands are available).

How these three restrictions interact or interface with one another I have no idea. But clearly if an airline has a specific landing slot it must also have the use of a terminal capable of handling the passengers on the aircraft that will use the slot and access to a stand large enough to handle that aircraft. In other words using an arrival slot for an A380 when all the A380-ready stands are scheduled to be in use is a non-starter as is using a slot to deliver 500 mor more passengers to a terminal already working to its maximum passenger capacity at that time.

Quoting GSTBA (Reply 9):
BA have been evaluating for sometime now the feasibility of some new long haul routes from LHR. The arrival of 3 new 77W's during the W11/12 season and the delivery of new A380's during S12 will release aircraft to start these new routes.

According to the presentation made last year at the BA Investors' Day Meeting, delivery of the 380s originally scheduled for 2012/13 (6) and 2013/14 (6) has been put back to 2013/14 (4), 2014/15 (3), 2015/16 (3) and 2016/17 (2). See Slide 30 here:

http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_.../01_ID_2010_Full_presentations.pdf

Perhaps this has been changed again? However at that time - see Slide 32 - the plan was to stand-up 2 of the parked BA 744s with the flexibility to stand-up more if required. Of course the first two are now already back in service with the third currently being prepared at CWL to re-enter service. It looks as this aircraft as well as two of the new 77Ws will enter service at around the time these new slots become available.

Quoting bongodog1964 (Reply 21):
Additionally BA currently have a fairly clear division between business orientated long haul at LHR and leisure orientated long haul at LGW, moving part of the LGW operation would confuse the issue somewhat.

Currently BA base nine 772s in three different cabin configurations at LGW. The situation could be simplified and made a lot clearer by moving the LGW-BDA and LGW-BGI services to LHR. These services require two 772s in a 4-class configuration to be included among these nine aircraft. Moving these flights to LHR would result in all of BA's 4-class 772s being LHR based and reduce the different 772 configurations operated out of LGW by a third.

Returning to the main topic, 6 daily slot pairs does not sound a lot. The way the LHR slot coordinator lists slots is always in terms of weekly slots (because a service may only operate five or six days a week). So if these are truly daily slot pairs they equate to 84 individual weekly slots.

Today BD have 800 LHR weekly slots. So here we are talking of 10.5 per cent of all of BD's current slots.

I have checked back on recent history and as far as I can determine the largest slot reassignments at LHR in recent years have been:

BD to LH. Start of Summer Season 2009. 124 LHR weekly slots
BD to LX. Start of Summer Season 2009. 84 weekly slots (restart of GVA-LHR service)
BD to BA. Start of Winter Season 2008. 54 weekly slots (transfer of former BMed slots to BA at a reported total cost of £30 million)

So this sale by LH to BA of BD LHR slots appears to be the second largest slot transfer or sale since at least 2003. Very clearly it also shows that LH are quite prepared to sell BD slots to the highest bidder to ensure best value for their shareholders and will not refuse any good offer even from a direct competitor.
 
GSTBA
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:40 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 51):
According to the presentation made last year at the BA Investors' Day Meeting, delivery of the 380s originally scheduled for 2012/13 (6) and 2013/14 (6) has been put back to 2013/14 (4), 2014/15 (3), 2015/16 (3) and 2016/17 (2). See Slide 30 here:

You are correct. I stand corrected.

BA will increase there Longhaul fleet by a total of 5 frames (2 x 744 & 3 x 77W's) by the start of S12. The addition of the the 5 aircraft will mean BA will be in a position to open up new or increase frequency on current routes.

The 3 new 77W's will enter service in late OCT11, mid JAN12 and mid MAR12. This will take the fleet to 6. BA will also announce this week that they have decided to excercise 2 of there 77W options. The aicraft will enter service 3Q/4Q11.

G-BNLG - Was flown from storage at VCV to CWL back in late JUN. The aircraft has undergone major return to service maintanance and has had the new F cabin fitted. Is expected to re-enter service late OCT11. G-BNLH is to be flown from storage in VCV to CWL in early NOV. The aicraft will undergo major return to service maintanance, will also have the new F cabin fitted. BA plan to return the aircraft to service just before S12 season.

When it comes to the rest of the 747 fleet BA will NOT return the other 2 aircraft currently in storage at VCV to the fleet the are expected to be parted out early 2012. G-BNLB and C which have been stored at CWL have had all titles removed and will be B/U shortly.

In late 2012 BA will restart the process of the retirement of there 744 fleet. At least 8 747 aircraft will leave fleet in 2013
 
AIR MALTA
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Sun Sep 25, 2011 4:14 pm

Quoting GSTBA (Reply 52):
BA will increase there Longhaul fleet by a total of 5 frames (2 x 744 & 3 x 77W's) by the start of S12. The addition of the the 5 aircraft will mean BA will be in a position to open up new or increase frequency on current routes.

I guess we won't see any longhaul increase for W12. It is too late to start such services. We will some increases on shorthaul. I remember BA flying 2 daily flights to Tripoli not long ago and sometimes an extra daily flight to Brussels. It was clear BA wanted to use the slots and the aircraft instead of parking them the whole day at LHR.

[Edited 2011-09-25 09:15:03]
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GCT64
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Sun Sep 25, 2011 4:28 pm

Quoting LX138 (Reply 47):
But then you think how non-existent the brands of China Airlines and EVA are over here and you wonder if the BA flight would stand out? Theres an enormous amount of student traffic to TPE ex LHR, and the tickets are insanely expensive, I've done it twice!

I used to go back and forward between LHR and TPE a lot (about every three weeks I would do a round trip) and I always used the CX flights via HKG - it was convenient, reasonably priced, lots of schedule options etc. Unless BA want to do a non-stop LHR-TPE then they should probably leave TPE to their alliance partner CX.
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UAL777UK
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Sun Sep 25, 2011 5:03 pm

Quoting worldliner (Reply 37):
hence why no North American carriers fly to Seoul either.

What, you mean apart from AC, UA and DL???
 
vv701
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:02 pm

Quoting GSTBA (Reply 52):
BA will increase there Longhaul fleet by a total of 5 frames (2 x 744 & 3 x 77W's) by the start of S12. The addition of the the 5 aircraft will mean BA will be in a position to open up new or increase frequency on current routes.

The 3 new 77W's will enter service in late OCT11, mid JAN12 and mid MAR12. This will take the fleet to 6. BA will also announce this week that they have decided to exercise 2 of there 77W options. The aircraft will enter service 3Q/4Q11.

Thanks for this information. It certainly helps in creating a clearer view of the overall situation regarding the purchase of BD's slots.

If I am not adding 2 and 2 to make 5 it seems that BA will obtain 6 daily slot pairs in time for the start of the Winter Schedules at the end of October. By that time they will have added a new 77W and an old 744 to their current operational long haul fleet. Assuming that neither the LGW-BDA or LGW-BGI services are moved from LGW to LHR (with the aircraft that currently operate them) we can expect one of the new slot pairs to be allocated to the new 77W. However the 744 will operate the new "long haul" DME service using existing BA slots (even if they require juggling a bit because of shorter flight times). This leaves five new daily slot pairs.

The upgrading of the DME service to a long haul flight will release the two 320s that currently operate to DME. They can therefore be used to fill four or five of the new daily slot pairs on new short haul European or domestic services.

This suggests that the upgrading of the DME service to a long haul flight, the standing up of the 744 currently at CWL and the purchase of the six daily slot pairs are all part of an interdependent package.

One wonders what similar process is going on that has resulted in BA taking up two of their 77W options. Could it even be that they are working with LH to buy more of the current BD slots for transfer at the end of October 2012?
 
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MillwallSean
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:52 pm

I agree about Seoul being a prime candidate for a route.
South Korea and VFR? To Europe?
Not many migrants from Korea in Europe so I don't really get that one. (Unless adopted children counts)

But Seoul is a business centre and since Japan has been very US centric Europeans have worked with Korea more and more. The free trade agreement between the EU and South Korea is in play to enhance this even more.
Components and manufacturing is surprisingly often done with South Korean counterparts. They run the cheap sweatshops in Asia instead of the white man...
South Korea has previously been and still is one of the most closed economies to certain exports though. It's very hard to make business there and the koreans are masters when it comes to inventing trade hurdles if they see possible competition for one of their few big groups of manufacturers. This is hopefully slowly being reduced and then we will see Europeans trade with Korea even more.
(Look at the cars driven around in Korea, 96% Korean cars etc and that is very weird indeed)
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lhr380
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:25 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 58):
Now this is just getting sad:

Not a surprise really.
(The views on this site are my own and no one elses)
 
jacobin777
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:26 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 58):
Now this is just getting sad:

I'm not so sure if its "just sad" as he has to do everything in his power from preventing the competitor from expanding. That being said, I doubt he'll be too successful.
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lightsaber
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:09 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 60):
I'm not so sure if its "just sad" as he has to do everything in his power from preventing the competitor from expanding. That being said, I doubt he'll be too successful.

VS doesn't have the money right now to do much. If they disliked it, why didn't they out-bid for the slots.   

Any link on how much LHR slots trade for today? What is the difference between peak time and off peak slot values? Thanks in advance for any information.

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jacobin777
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:18 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 61):
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 60):
I'm not so sure if its "just sad" as he has to do everything in his power from preventing the competitor from expanding. That being said, I doubt he'll be too successful.

VS doesn't have the money right now to do much. If they disliked it, why didn't they out-bid for the slots.

I agree.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 61):
Any link on how much LHR slots trade for today? What is the difference between peak time and off peak slot values? Thanks in advance for any information.

I don't know how relevant this is, but it might help:

http://www.acl-uk.org/default.aspx
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LHRFlyer
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:32 pm

Bit disingenuous of Virgin (though that's never stopped them before) to claim they didn't buy the slots because they were advertised as for lease when they themselves have done plenty of deals to lease slots to/from other airlines.

Like the campaign against AA/BA ATI it's futile and hardly anyone is listening.
 
vv701
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:39 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 58):
Now this is just getting sad

Quite.

According to the Blomberg article "Branson has himself been pursuing BMI for more than a decade".

What a sad admittance of failure!

Bishop did not want BD. He tried for many years to off load it. Eventually he forced LH to buy it. Yet Branson failed in his alleged tireless pursuit.

Today LH does not want BD. Yet Branson has failed again. Worse still he is annoyed that BA has picked up a few of BD's slots!

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 60):
I'm not so sure if its "just sad" as he has to do everything in his power from preventing the competitor from expanding.

Everything in his power?

As indicated above he has had plenty of opportunity to buy BD which he claims is what he wanted to do. Or he could have bought (or leased) the slots himself. After all he told Blomberg that he knew they were up for grabs. And if he did not buy or lease them it should not be surprising to anyone with any knowledge of LHR, let alone him, that BA would. Further I am quite sure LH would rather have sold them to VS with whom they do not directly compete at all and is half owned by their Star partner SQ than to BA where it and its subsidiaries compete directly with BA on many routes including most of their 794 weekly rotations at LHR.

However if Branson had bought or leased the slots there would be several downsides. He would certainly have had to put his money where his mouth is. He would also have had to introduce six more daily LHR services to use them, but to where?. Worst of all it would have destroyed this opportunity of having another public dig at BA.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:42 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 51):
See Slide 30 here:

http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_...s.pdf

Facinating read. Thank you. I found slide 28 and 32 also very interesting...

The 747 'stand up' strategy makes sense. It isn't worth selling the frames at today's market values.   

Quoting VV701 (Reply 51):
BD to LH. Start of Summer Season 2009. 124 LHR weekly slots
BD to LX. Start of Summer Season 2009. 84 weekly slots (restart of GVA-LHR service)
BD to BA. Start of Winter Season 2008. 54 weekly slots (transfer of former BMed slots to BA at a reported total cost of £30 million)

Thank you. It does show LH is trying to maximize the value of the BMI slots. I recall numbers like you suggested of about a million pounds per slot-pair at the peak. I'm curious as to the current value. Considering how much an A380 costs to purchase and operate, if a large aircraft were to utilize the slots, the value would be maximized.

With T5C to open soon boosting the BA gates by ten (net, 12 physical gates, I assume 2 gates are lost elsewhere to improve aircraft movements), they will be able to utilize the slots well.

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lhr380
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:49 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 65):
With T5C to open soon boosting the BA gates by ten (net, 12 physical gates, I assume 2 gates are lost elsewhere to improve aircraft movements), they will be able to utilize the slots well.

Ummm, its fully open and has been for about 3 months now.
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slinky09
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:55 pm

Quoting LX138 (Reply 35):
Lima is not going to happen! IB will serve that market, Manila (wrong continent) - no way! Very low yielding and is served well by on-off codeshare with CX.
Quoting B747-4U3 (Reply 50):
I think the only way MNL could work is a non-stop flight as it will give BA an advantage over the likes of Emirates and Cathay Pacific, however I'm not sure the yield would be there.

BA did used to fly there (you can even see signs to the BA lounge still in the terminal ... and there is increasing business, I know a number of FTSE companies that have opened offshore centres there. Currently most fly via HKG or SIN or DXB ...

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 39):
I think the more interesting story here is that LH are selling the slots to IAG rather than using them themselves.

Indeed, another nail in the coffin of BMI and a step further toward LH's exit from it.
 
jacobin777
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:58 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 64):
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 60):
I'm not so sure if its "just sad" as he has to do everything in his power from preventing the competitor from expanding.

Everything in his power?

As indicated above he has had plenty of opportunity to buy BD which he claims is what he wanted to do. Or he could have bought (or leased) the slots himself. After all he told Blomberg that he knew they were up for grabs. And if he did not buy or lease them it should not be surprising to anyone with any knowledge of LHR, let alone him, that BA would. Further I am quite sure LH would rather have sold them to VS with whom they do not directly compete at all and is half owned by their Star partner SQ than to BA where it and its subsidiaries compete directly with BA on many routes including most of their 794 weekly rotations at LHR.

We do know he's "about the media", that's more of the point I was trying to make.
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vv701
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:01 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 65):
The 747 'stand up' strategy makes sense. It isn't worth selling the frames at today's market values.

The latest update on the BA 747 situation (as detailed recently in another thread but I cannot remember which) is that:

The two 744s parked at CWL (G-BNLB and 'LC) will remain there until they are parted out.

The 744 ferried from VCV to CWL last June (G-BNLG) will be returned to service around the start of the Winter Schedules after being fitted with the new F Class cabin and undergoing a D Check.

A fourth 744 wail be ferried back from VCV in time for a cabin refurbishment and major maintenance to be completed at CWL before the start of the 2012 Summer Schedules.

The remaining two 744s at VCV will be parted out.

The net result is that the active BA 744 fleet will grow to 53 aircraft for Summer 2012 having been at 57 from April 1999 until October 2008 before falling back to 49 in response to the credit crunch. Additionally three 748Fs in BA livery (but to be operated on their behalf by Global Supply Systems) will be delivered in October (1) and November (2).
 
rutankrd
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:37 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 69):
Additionally three 748Fs in BA livery (but to be operated on their behalf by Global Supply Systems) will be delivered in October (1) and November (2).

I would not hold my breath for the GSS B748F deliveries as it appears these may be the ones that Atlas have declined to take due performance issues.
 
bennett123
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:31 pm

Which BMI routes will be pulled?.
 
1peter
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:49 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 56):
However the 744 will operate the new "long haul" DME service using existing BA slots (even if they require juggling a bit because of shorter flight times). This leaves five new daily slot pairs.

The upgrading of the DME service to a long haul flight will release the two 320s that currently operate to DME. They can therefore be used to fill four or five of the new daily slot pairs on new short haul European or domestic services.

This suggests that the upgrading of the DME service to a long haul flight, the standing up of the 744 currently at CWL and the purchase of the six daily slot pairs are all part of an interdependent package

When I checked this out yesterday the systems were showing the longhaul 76's and 747 to start serving DME from S12. That along with new flight numbers, moving away from the current 872, 874 and 880........233, 235 237 ex LHR. With the current 872 service which if I recall correctly, will be the 233 and this will be the 747.

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 70):
Quoting VV701 (Reply 69):
Additionally three 748Fs in BA livery (but to be operated on their behalf by Global Supply Systems) will be delivered in October (1) and November (2).

I would not hold my breath for the GSS B748F deliveries as it appears these may be the ones that Atlas have declined to take due performance issues.

We had a memo the other day stating that a 5 year contract has been signed with GSS for the 748's............so we are getting them!
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rutankrd
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:03 pm

Quoting 1peter (Reply 72):
We had a memo the other day stating that a 5 year contract has been signed with GSS for the 748's............so we are getting them!

Didn't say GSS weren't getting the 748F from Atlas just not the three that were scheduled ( these have the performance issues, hence they have not received the full BA livery)

Having read an other thread i think VV701 has eluded to this already and that later frames have now been allocated to the GSS lease.
 
vv701
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:54 pm

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 70):
I would not hold my breath for the GSS B748F deliveries as it appears these may be the ones that Atlas have declined to take due performance issues.

The aircraft that Atlas have cancelled are RC571 (LN 1429), RC572 (LN 1432) and RC573 (LN1437). They were indeed origionally destined for GSS to be operated for BA with the first to be delivered this month.

Following the Atlas cancellation of the above aircraft the frames that will now be operated by GSS on behalf of BA World Cargo will be what were, before the cancellation, to be Atlas's fourth, fifth and sixth frames. These are RC574 (LN 1442), RC575 (LN 1444) and RC576 (LN 1445).

Both RC574 and 575 are complete and out of the factory. They are parked on the Boeing Flight Line at PAE. As I stated in my previous reply, the first of these is now scheduled for delivery in October. Similarly the second is now scheduled for November delivery.

I believe that RC576 will be the next 748 to be rolled out at PAE. It will also be delivered in November unless Boeing experience an entirely new discontinuity in 748 production or testing.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:13 am

Quoting VV701 (Reply 69):
The two 744s parked at CWL (G-BNLB and 'LC) will remain there until they are parted out.
Quoting VV701 (Reply 69):
The remaining two 744s at VCV will be parted out.

Bummer to hear.   I'm not surprised at today's 744 values that they're worth more as parts.

Quoting lhr380 (Reply 66):
Ummm, its fully open and has been for about 3 months now.

Ooops...    So BA has the gates.  

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LipeGIG
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:35 am

Any idea of the schedule on such pairs ?

Quoting GSTBA (Reply 9):
South America

Brasillia (Possbily Via GRU)
Lima
Santiago (To Link OW hub)

BSB via GRU is a back track. Makes more sense to try LHR-BSB-SCL/LIM but i doubt it works as BSB market is far from being deep business related to UK. The good markets in Brazil (business) for UK are just Rio and Sao Paulo.
LHR-LIM is expected as well as if they try to run LHR-GIG overnight like EZE and GRU.

LHR-SCL is something i believe Latam could try thru Brazil.
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
Humberside
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Tue Sep 27, 2011 4:08 pm

Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 71):
Which BMI routes will be pulled?.

The slots concerned are probably those from Lufthansa Italia's soon to end LHR-MXP service
Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
 
LH121GLA
Posts: 345
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Tue Sep 27, 2011 5:38 pm

Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 71):
Which BMI routes will be pulled?

MAN and EDI?

Bmi cuts domestic flights
 
jfk787nyc
Posts: 479
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:33 pm

Quoting GSTBA (Reply 9):
North America

Fort Lauderdale (Possbile 767/787route)
Portland

The population of Broward, Palm Beach Counties equals to over 3.15 Million People plus, Plus an additional 200-250'000 population of Miami-Dade that lives in North Miami that hate to commute to MIA Airport.

This community of people are very rich and live all year round more and more, If BA will fly to FLL I would start flying international with them, Now I fly either threw NYC or ATL international. This would be a great addition.

This would be unbelievable if they would start this and get a head start on other European carriers,

Quoting VictorKilo (Reply 16):
Kazakhstan

Do people really expect for BA to start flights to Kazakhstan? This would also be great as there is a lot of business going on there now.
 
AIR MALTA
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:49 pm

We are now one month before the start of the winter season. BA should soon announce the new 6 daily flights. Could these be increases to MAN and EDI (as BD is reducing services).
Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
 
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par13del
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Wed Sep 28, 2011 1:29 pm

Quoting GSTBA (Reply 9):
In the short term BA will probably use the new slots to add frequency to some of it's short haul destinations for the W11/12 season.

It has been awhile since we went in detail into slots, but if my memory serves, there is a time frame where slots can be idle before some regulations kick in.
Is there a possibility of BA purchasing slots which are around times for some key flights that they can defacto use to minimize delays by reducing congestion?
 
vv701
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Wed Sep 28, 2011 5:03 pm

Quoting par13del (Reply 81):
It has been awhile since we went in detail into slots, but if my memory serves, there is a time frame where slots can be idle before some regulations kick in.

Each slot must be used on a minimum of 80 per cent of possible occasions within, as appropriate, the Winter or Summer Schedule period. If an airline does not use a slot for this minimum number of times it will loose it.

Note here that Winter Timetable slots are not valid in the Summer Timetable or vice-versa. So having one or more slots confiscated for not using it / them for at least 80 per cent of Winter Timetable flights means the airline will loose the slot in the following Winter Schedules. It will not impact ownership of the same slot in the Summer Timetable if that slot is operated by the same airline.

During the height of the Credit Crunch and before the EU temporarily cancelled this "use it or loose it" rule some airlines, like BA, cancelled, for example, one out of five daily flights but ensured that each of the slots for those five flights was used on a minimum of 80 per cent of occasions.
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:23 pm

With BD axing around 10% of their LHR slots, this must them have a knock on effect on both staffing and planes. When you take into consideration all the other slots which have been transferred to LH group airlines, staff morale must be suffering, as BD's LHR operation has near enough halved in recent years.
 
jet72uk
Posts: 111
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:21 pm

The slots will be used as follows:
1x NCE
1x MAN
1x EDI
1x GLA
1x PRG
1x ORY
All 1 extra daily.
Not totally Inspiring eh!

[Edited 2011-10-01 12:22:29]
 
LHRFlyer
Topic Author
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:47 pm

Quoting Jet72uk (Reply 84):
All 1 extra daily.Not totally Inspiring eh!

Most likely just to keep the slots occupied until the Summer 2012 season. Also short rotations, thus not requiring much in terms of additional aircraft hours.

New long-haul routes need a few months on sale before launch and the whole schedule will have probably have to be rejigged to accommodate new long haul routes as the newly acquired slots themselves may not be suited to long haul ops.
 
vv701
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Sat Oct 01, 2011 8:06 pm

Quoting Jet72uk (Reply 84):
1x NCE
1x MAN
1x EDI
1x GLA
1x PRG
1x ORY

Half of these new valuable slots used for domestic flights. Very surprising. Also interesting.

Another used for PAR. It - like the domestic routes - is supposed to be going the way of the train. Also surprising and interesting.

And no long haul! No North America!
 
LHRFlyer
Topic Author
Posts: 1041
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Sat Oct 01, 2011 8:10 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 86):
Half of these new valuable slots used for domestic flights. Very surprising. Also interesting.

Another used for PAR. It - like the domestic routes - is supposed to be going the way of the train. Also surprising and interesting.

And no long haul! No North America!

As above, they have to use the slots immediately. Adding the shortest short-haul routes is the easiest way to start using the slots at very short notice. Long-haul routes can't be added at a moment's notice.

Does anybody seriously believe BA would pay tens of millions of new slot pairs and use them for extra domestic rotations?

[Edited 2011-10-01 13:18:09]
 
B747-4U3
Posts: 617
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2002 8:08 am

RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Sat Oct 01, 2011 8:21 pm

Quoting LHRFlyer (Reply 87):
Quoting VV701 (Reply 86):
Half of these new valuable slots used for domestic flights. Very surprising. Also interesting.

Another used for PAR. It - like the domestic routes - is supposed to be going the way of the train. Also surprising and interesting.

And no long haul! No North America!

As above, they have to use the slots immediately. Adding the shortest short-haul routes is the easiest way to start using the slots at very short notice. Long-haul routes can't be added at a moment's notice.

I would imagine that the shortness of the flights added makes it easier to squeeze into the aircraft utilisation schedule. If they added flights that were 2-3hrs (or 6hrs for a return trip) it might be hard to find the aircraft to operate them.

I would also imagine - given the 80% usage rule - that using the slots for already frequently served routes will make it easier for BA to selectively cancel certain flights to meet demand whilst still providing frequent service - unlike routes which are served once or twice per day.
 
fcogafa
Posts: 1310
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:37 pm

RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Sat Oct 01, 2011 9:15 pm

With BMA pulling MAN/EDI/GLA flights it makes sense for BAW to take their place. There is no LHR competition on the Prague and NCE is one of BAWs highest earners.....
 
edina
Posts: 594
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Sat Oct 01, 2011 9:31 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 86):
Half of these new valuable slots used for domestic flights. Very surprising. Also interesting.

Have you seen the fares from LHR to GLA on BA lately?? The route has become a cash cow since BD pulled off wit yields shooting up....the LCY & LGW services are a bargain in comparison.
Worked on - Caravelle Mercure A300 A320 F27 SD3-60 BAe146 747-100/200/400 DC10-30 767 777 737-400 757 A319 A321
 
by188b
Posts: 561
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 10:46 am

RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:10 pm

Quoting edina (Reply 90):
Have you seen the fares from LHR to GLA on BA lately?? The route has become a cash cow since BD pulled off wit yields shooting up....the LCY & LGW services are a bargain in comparison.

Indeed. the early morning GLA-LHR flights are often sold out even after being upgraded to A321, and seats that are available are often ££££££
next flights : LHR-SOF BA, SOF-DOH-KAT QR, KAT-HKG KA, HKG-LHR VS, LHR-ATH-LHR BA, LHR-CDG-LHR AF, LHR-MAD-LHR IB/BA
 
santos
Posts: 550
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:46 pm

RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:28 pm

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 89):
There is no LHR competition on the Prague and NCE is one of BAWs highest earners.....

BD does fly from LHR to NCE daily.
 
eicvd
Posts: 1453
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:11 pm

RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:28 pm

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 89):
There is no LHR competition on the Prague and NCE is one of BAWs highest earners.....
Quoting santos (Reply 92):
BD does fly from LHR to NCE daily.

I think you read that wrong santos, he just said NCE was one of BA's highest earners, nothing about competion.
COYBIB
 
LH121GLA
Posts: 345
Joined: Sat May 01, 2004 5:42 pm

RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:28 pm

Quoting by188b (Reply 91):
Indeed. the early morning GLA-LHR flights are often sold out even after being upgraded to A321, and seats that are available are often ££££££

They're putting a 767 on the 1st LHR-GLA on certain days of the week, I can't recall which days.
 
Humberside
Posts: 3239
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:44 am

RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Sun Oct 02, 2011 9:31 am

Quoting VV701 (Reply 86):
Another used for PAR. It - like the domestic routes - is supposed to be going the way of the train. Also surprising and interesting.

Orly slot sitting? Not easy to get Orly slots
Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
 
lhr380
Posts: 2453
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:39 pm

RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Sun Oct 02, 2011 10:12 am

SO surprised that on a Sunday, the first BD plane to MAN is 0715. The NEXT one after that is 1715. Both are ER4s!! BA have 3 flights in between the 0745 and 1735 departures.
(The views on this site are my own and no one elses)
 
BrianDromey
Posts: 2927
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:23 am

RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Sun Oct 02, 2011 10:29 am

Quoting par13del (Reply 81):
It has been awhile since we went in detail into slots, but if my memory serves, there is a time frame where slots can be idle before some regulations kick in.

80% use it or loose it is the rule, of course winter and summer slots are different too. Launching short haul routes with high volumes at short notice makes sense. These are likely to be routes with a lot of short notice booking and the easiest to fit into the timetable and schedule. I think the summer timetable will be more interesting and indicative of what BA actually wants to do with the slots. There are a few long haul aircraft arrivals coming over the next twelve months, I understand?
 
AIR MALTA
Posts: 1791
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2001 6:45 am

RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Sun Oct 02, 2011 11:06 am

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 97):
There are a few long haul aircraft arrivals coming over the next twelve months, I understand?

BA wil have 2 daliy slots coming from Qantas also... It will be very intersting to see what BA is going to do with all these slots.
Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
 
LHRFlyer
Topic Author
Posts: 1041
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:50 pm

RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Sun Oct 02, 2011 11:24 am

Quoting Humberside (Reply 95):
Orly slot sitting? Not easy to get Orly slots

Most likely slot-sitting for OpenSkies.

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