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LHRFlyer
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IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:50 am

http://www.iairgroup.com/phoenix.zht...-newsArticle&ID=1609466&highlight=

Quote:
 LONDON HEATHROW SLOT PURCHASE

IAG has approved the acquisition by British Airways of six daily slot pairs at London Heathrow from bmi British Midland International.

The slots will be used by British Airways from late October 2011 with the airline looking to expand both its longhaul and shorthaul network at the airport.

Just in time for new 777 deliveries!
 
AIR MALTA
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:05 am

Does that mean 6 departures and 6 arrival slots... That's good news. It seems that LH has started to dismantle BD before even selling it... Where do you think these slots will go? It isn't to late to use them for this winter?
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LHRFlyer
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:21 am

Yes, each slot pair is a daily arrival & departure slot.

In terms of new long-haul routes:

- Possibly another secondary city in North America (though I think that's more likely with the 787)
- South America (notwithstanding the IB merger BA has said it will still add capacity)
- China (again another region touted for expansion)

Don't forget that BA is also getting two daily slot pairs on lease from Qantas next year so that's 8 extra daily flights from LHR in total.
 
PEET7G
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:25 am

Ok everyone, allow me to look stupid, but I have no freaking idea how slots are handled, I mean how they trade at LHR. Does these 6 slot pairs have specific sizes? I mean what can BA use them for? Heavies, Super heavies, or single aisle planes? Is there even such restrictions on slots at LHR, or the owner can puzzle with their slots around to best fit their operations?
Peet7G
 
qf002
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:46 am

Quoting PEET7G (Reply 3):
Does these 6 slot pairs have specific sizes? I mean what can BA use them for? Heavies, Super heavies, or single aisle planes? Is there even such restrictions on slots at LHR, or the owner can puzzle with their slots around to best fit their operations?

The only restriction is with the timing of them. The slot is set at a specific time (say 10am) and is only good to use at that time. If BA want to add another flight at say 11am, though, then they can just shuffle each flight between 10am and 11am forward one slot (but the departure time would stay the same because they have so many slots so can shuffle them a tiny bit) and add the new flight in at 11am.
 
LHRFlyer
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:49 am

Quoting PEET7G (Reply 3):
Ok everyone, allow me to look stupid, but I have no freaking idea how slots are handled, I mean how they trade at LHR. Does these 6 slot pairs have specific sizes? I mean what can BA use them for? Heavies, Super heavies, or single aisle planes? Is there even such restrictions on slots at LHR, or the owner can puzzle with their slots around to best fit their operations?

It's just an arrival and departure slot at a set time. Absolutely no restrictions on the type of aircraft.
 
AIR MALTA
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:49 am

I guess at this point, BA mught add shorthaul flights as it is too late to launch longhaul destinations in winter.

May be Warsaw will get back its 3rd daily flight.
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lhr380
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:15 am

Fantastic news  

Wonder what is going to be done with them.
(The views on this site are my own and no one elses)
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:07 am

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 1):
It seems that LH has started to dismantle BD before even selling it... Where do you think these slots will go? It isn't to late to use them for this winter?

  

The more slots they sell, the less marketeable the remainder of BD becomes, atb the end of the day its just a mish mash of assorted planes and routes held up by some valuable LHR slots.
 
GSTBA
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:21 am

In the short term BA will probably use the new slots to add frequency to some of it's short haul destinations for the W11/12 season.

BA have been evaluating for sometime now the feasibility of some new long haul routes from LHR. The arrival of 3 new 77W's during the W11/12 season and the delivery of new A380's during S12 will release aircraft to start these new routes.

Some of the routes being looked at include a number of destinations that BA have served before. The routes that are in the final stages of evaluation include:

Africa

Addis Ababa
Dakar
Port Harcourt

Asia

Guangzhou
Ho Chi Minh City,
Kuala Lumpar (To Link Future OW hub)
Seoul
Shenzhen
Taipei
Xiamen

Middle East

Beirut (Possbile 767/787 route)
Damman

North America

Fort Lauderdale (Possbile 767/787route)
Portland

South America

Brasillia (Possbily Via GRU)
Lima
Manila
Santiago (To Link OW hub)
 
AIR MALTA
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:32 am

Quoting GSTBA (Reply 9):
Africa

Addis Ababa
Dakar
Port Harcourt

Dakar won't really work on its own. The market is thin to the UK and they already have AF, SN, EK and TK. I can see it as a stop of a service to another city.

Quoting GSTBA (Reply 9):
Asia

Guangzhou
Ho Chi Minh City,
Kuala Lumpar (To Link Future OW hub)
Seoul
Shenzhen
Taipei
Xiamen

Seoul, Guanzou and Kuala Lumpur might work. I am not sure about the others though.

Quoting GSTBA (Reply 9):
South America

Brasillia (Possbily Via GRU)
Lima
Manila
Santiago (To Link OW hub)

Lima looks feasible and LA wants to mkae it hub for north South America. Not sure about Santiago.

As for the BMI destinations as BEY, DAM, ADD, they might work if BD pulls out of them.
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kl911
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:39 am

Quoting LHRFlyer (Reply 2):
Yes, each slot pair is a daily arrival & departure slot.
Quoting LHRFlyer (Reply 2):
Don't forget that BA is also getting two daily slot pairs on lease from Qantas next year so that's 8 extra daily flights from LHR in total.

What will the EU think of this? Wont BA need approval? They are already very dominant at LHR.
 
AIR MALTA
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:41 am

Quoting kl911 (Reply 11):
What will the EU think of this? Wont BA need approval? They are already very dominant at LHR.

EU won't think anything. BA is buying slots which is completely legal. On top of that BA is not as dominant at LHR as AF at CDG, LH at FRA/MUC or KL at AMS.
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ndebelebev
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:42 am

Quoting GSTBA (Reply 9):
South America

Brasillia (Possbily Via GRU)
Lima
Manila
Santiago (To Link OW hub)

When was MNL moved to South America?  
Her Pose Is That Of Someone... Who Knows It All And Is In Total Control Of Her World... Little Does She Know...
 
SCL767
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:46 am

Quoting GSTBA (Reply 9):
Lima

Interesting since LAN was analyzing opening a non-stop route between LIM and LHR with the B-787s.

Quoting GSTBA (Reply 9):
Santiago (To Link OW hub)

Another route that LAN showed an interest in operating with the B-787s.
 
jfk777
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:48 am

Quoting GSTBA (Reply 9):
Addis Ababa
Dakar
Port Harcourt

Asia

Guangzhou
Ho Chi Minh City,
Kuala Lumpar (To Link Future OW hub)
Seoul
Shenzhen
Taipei
Xiamen

Middle East

Beirut (Possbile 767/787 route)
Damman

North America

Fort Lauderdale (Possbile 767/787route)
Portland

South America

Brasillia (Possbily Via GRU)
Lima
Manila
Santiago (To Link OW hub)

Lima would be better then Santiago as LAN is also the biggest airline in Lima and connects to all the cities Santiago does.

In China Guangzhou would be the best option. Seoul is such a huge Skyteam city BA could find it difficult as both Asiana and Korean Air fly to LHR.

FLL ? Is that a good idea with MIA 30 miles down the road. FLL has a very small customs and its runway is only 9500 feet long.
 
VictorKilo
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:49 am

I made this list for the LH to sell BMI thread. Here is the list of the current BMI flights from LHR:

14 daily flights on mainline narrowbody aircraft to locations in the British Isles (mostly EDI/BHD/DUB, also MAN)

14 daily flights on express 50-seat aircraft to locations in the British Isles (mostly ABZ/MAN/DUB, also EDI/BHD)

10 daily flights on mainline narrowbody aircraft to locations with Lufthansa owned national airlines (TXL/BSL/VIE)

3 daily flights on express 50-seat aircraft to a location with Lufthansa owned national airlines (HAJ)

2 daily flights on mainline narrowbody aircraft to locations with national airlines in Star Alliance (BGO/SVG)

8 daily flights on mainline narrowbody aircraft to locations in the Mediterranean/Caucus region (AMM/BEY/GYD/DAM/EVN/CMN/RAK, plus tags)

2 daily flights on mainline narrowbody aircraft to Moscow

2 daily flights on manline widebody aircraft to Sierra Leone, Riyadh, Kazakhstan, plus tags

Total Flights: 55

Where will these six slots come from?
 
SCL767
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:53 am

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 15):
Lima would be better then Santiago as LAN is also the biggest airline in Lima and connects to all the cities Santiago does.

Perhaps LAN is interested in operating the B-787s into MAD and FRA from both LIM and SCL. It would be great to see BA back at BOG though.
 
BlueShamu330s
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:56 am

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 15):
FLL has a very small customs and its runway is only 9500 feet long.

SAN is "only" 9400ft; what's your point?

Rgds
Flying around India
 
EUflyer
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:26 pm

Could they move some longhaul LGW operations to use the new slots at LHR ?

[Edited 2011-09-23 05:31:52]
 
ISTGRU
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:39 pm

Quoting GSTBA (Reply 9):
Kuala Lumpar (To Link Future OW hub)

Could be likely if KUL becomes the base for QF's new Asian carrier or if BA enters into a codeshare arrangement with MH for non-BA south-east asian destinations like CGK, DPS, SGN, PNH etc
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:08 pm

Quoting EUFlyer (Reply 19):
Could they move some longhaul LGW operations to use the new slots at LHR ?

They could, but would it be a good use of expensively aquired slots to then use them for price sensitive lesuire orientated routes ?
Additionally BA currently have a fairly clear division between business orientated long haul at LHR and leisure orientated long haul at LGW, moving part of the LGW operation would confuse the issue somewhat.
 
DFWHeavy
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:08 pm

FLL runway at 9,500 ft is plenty long for a transatlantic flight. It won't be anywhere near MTOW. FLL is a sea leavel and typically a nice breeze off the ocean.
Christopher W Slovacek
 
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yellowtail
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:47 pm

Quoting GSTBA (Reply 9):
Lima

Its no secret that there is already a ton of leisure UK-LIM traffic....only thing that BA would need to do is to work on the yields. Due to the high cost of operating this route....(read union work rules etc)....they will need to agressively work on the F&J cabin.

Cargo should do nicely too.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
MCOGVADCA
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:49 pm

Quoting GSTBA (Reply 9):

Guangzhou
Ho Chi Minh City,
Kuala Lumpar (To Link Future OW hub)
Seoul
Shenzhen
Taipei
Xiamen

Shenzhen would be very interesting, albeit risky, considering BA's tiny China footprint (compared to other European majors). Xiamen would be a surprise, as KLM already serve Europe from XMN and, at least at this point in time, there's really not enough demand for two European flights. Given their relative thin-ness, both will be more likely to come to fruition once the 787s arrive.
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soups
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Fri Sep 23, 2011 5:09 pm

Would Kumasi, Ghana be a good option on a narrowbody?

Rumours a while ago about BA looking to fly to KMS, then SW from JNB but nothing was set in concrete!
Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
 
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FlyCaledonian
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:04 pm

Quoting EUFlyer (Reply 19):
Could they move some longhaul LGW operations to use the new slots at LHR ?

I'd have thought more likely move some LGW shorthaul, possibly one or two destinations that could add value (in terms of feed) to the LHR network. My thoughts would be any of: -

* Marseille
* Bordeaux
* Bologna
* Venice
* Tunis
* Marrakech
Let's Go British Caledonian!
 
AIR MALTA
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:45 pm

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 26):
Tunis

I hope Tunis gets its LHR route. LGW is nice but does not offer any connection possibility beyong the UK.
I think BA should study the relaunch of Casablanca and the introduction of Rabat.
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realsim
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:57 pm

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 10):
Dakar won't really work on its own. The market is thin to the UK and they already have AF, SN, EK and TK. I can see it as a stop of a service to another city.

Besides, IAG already flies to DKR, as IB flies daily from MAD (5 weekly direct, 2 weekly via LPA).
 
bastew
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:59 pm

I think KUL will definitely happen.

I was flicking thru the Australian Financial Review a few weeks ago and in an article about QF's new Asian based premium carrier the QF 'source' said there was an expectation that BA would commence flights into KUL to feed the new carrier should they base it at KUL.

In fact I see more co-operation with QF/BA in the years to come. They have demonstrated through their recent joint cuts on the 'kangaroo route' that the Joint Services Agreement is working for them.
 
jfk777
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:32 pm

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 18):
Quoting jfk777 (Reply 15):
FLL has a very small customs and its runway is only 9500 feet long.

SAN is "only" 9400ft; what's your point?

How many intercontinetal airports BA 744's and 777 fly to that have onky 9500 feet runways ? Few, San Diego for one, and they stopped flying there at one point even though though they fly to SD now.
 
B747forever
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:37 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 30):
How many intercontinetal airports BA 744's and 777 fly to that have onky 9500 feet runways ? Few, San Diego for one, and they stopped flying there at one point even though though they fly to SD now.



You seriously believe that BA stopped to fly to SAN because their runway is 9500 feet?
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
Humberside
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:59 pm

Quoting VictorKilo (Reply 16):
Where will these six slots come from?

My guess is these are the Lufthansa Italia LHR-MXP slots. I'm not aware of any replacement service being announced at LHR when LHR-MXP ends and Lufthansa Italia closes down. Also on pprune I've seen reference that the slots being sold by bmi are currently leased out and not used by bmi
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SANFan
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:21 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 15):
FLL ? Is that a good idea with MIA 30 miles down the road. FLL has a very small customs and its runway is only 9500 feet long
Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 18):
SAN is "only" 9400ft; what's your point
Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 22):
FLL runway at 9,500 ft is plenty long for a transatlantic flight. It won't be anywhere near MTOW. FLL is a sea leavel and typically a nice breeze off the ocean
Quoting jfk777 (Reply 30):
How many intercontinetal airports BA 744's and 777 fly to that have onky 9500 feet runways ? Few, San Diego for one, and they stopped flying there at one point even though though they fly to SD now.
Quoting B747forever (Reply 31):
You seriously believe that BA stopped to fly to SAN because their runway is 9500 feet?

And the advantage for FLL over SAN is that they don't have the hills off both ends of the runway! (But even the hills aren't causing much of a penalty for our T7 this time around; BA has been carrying a very healthy amount of cargo out of SAN this summer, in addition to nice loads of everything else!

Nevertheless, the ongoing debate about BA serving FLL usually revolves around it's closeness to MIA and whether Gatwick or Heathrow would make the better jump-off point from the right side of the pond. What's the latest on those concerns?

bb
 
jfk777
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:43 pm

Quoting B747forever (Reply 31):
Quoting jfk777 (Reply 30):
How many intercontinetal airports BA 744's and 777 fly to that have onky 9500 feet runways ? Few, San Diego for one, and they stopped flying there at one point even though though they fly to SD now.



You seriously believe that BA stopped to fly to SAN because their runway is 9500 feet?

NO but limited payload is a reason for flying the 777 to another city, given the limited amount of slots at LHR I am happy to offer plenty of alternatives suggestions. IF BA really wants to expand its presence in South Florida I know a group of county commisoners more then happy to welcome BA and a 777 or 787. FLL is too close to Miami, the only city in the USA where BA flies to two airports is New York. PBI would love to have a flight to Europe and this would served everyone from Pompano Beach north to Vero Beach very nicely. MIA to LHR is well served by BA and AA plus Delta and Virgin, FLL to LHR would bring what exactly to Broward county ? The Newark of Florida.
 
LX138
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:01 pm

Quoting GSTBA (Reply 9):
Guangzhou
Ho Chi Minh City,
Kuala Lumpar (To Link Future OW hub)
Seoul
Shenzhen
Taipei
Xiamen

Could see SGN, KUL and even TPE working. ICN is completely covered by Korean and Asiana and most of that traffic is of the ethnic VFR type - so theres no chance there at the moment.
Couldn't see XMN working, just not enough demand and SZX is way too close to HKG where BA has a large presence.

Quoting GSTBA (Reply 9):
Beirut (Possbile 767/787 route)
Damman

Could see both these working, aren't the yields bad to BEY though?

Quoting GSTBA (Reply 9):
Fort Lauderdale (Possbile 767/787route)
Portland

Bot sure about Portland, they probably should concentrate on SEA. And that runway at FLL - well you could barely get an A318 off there  
Quoting GSTBA (Reply 9):
Brasillia (Possbily Via GRU)
Lima
Manila
Santiago (To Link OW hub)

Lima is not going to happen! IB will serve that market, Manila (wrong continent) - no way! Very low yielding and is served well by on-off codeshare with CX.
Santiago - nope, its too far, and BA hate sending planes long distances where they can't get a good yield (thinking MEL), and no, a constant stream of gap year students paying £900 per ticket doesnt count.
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SCL767
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:25 pm

Quoting LX138 (Reply 35):
Lima is not going to happen! IB will serve that market

IB already serves MAD-LIM. However, unlike AF/KL, IB does not offer connections to Asia and many other destinations via MAD, as compared to AF via CDG and KL via AMS. AF recently resumed CDG-LIM 5x weekly and is benefiting from high LFs on the route. KL operates AMS-LIM daily and also records high LFs on the route.

Quoting LX138 (Reply 35):
Santiago - nope, its too far, and BA hate sending planes long distances where they can't get a good yield (thinking MEL), and no, a constant stream of gap year students paying £900 per ticket doesnt count.

SCL-Europe is low yielding? Tell that to AF!
 
Worldliner
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Sat Sep 24, 2011 12:04 am

If BA did launch FLL, my guess it would be with a 787 out of LGW. As most of the leisure routes go out of LGW, and I couldn't see FLL getting a full 777 even 3 flights a week, simply because of the two daily 744's on the LHR-MIA.

I can see Kuala Lumpur, Lima and Santiago. The rest are all possible, but unlikely.

However, I am sure I read somewhere that BA are dropping the Kuala Lumpur - Sydney leg, and just making it a flight that terminates in KUL.

For example, the reason that airline don't fly to Seoul, is because the majority of pax that fly to Seoul, are Korean. The pax are used to Korean culture and only Korean carriers can provide this, hence why no North American carriers fly to Seoul either.

When BA get their 787's the company will expand a lot more, and will fly to more secondary cities, and I can see smaller countries, such as Vietnam getting a direct flight to LHR.
@777Worldliner
 
1stfl94
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Sat Sep 24, 2011 12:48 am

Quoting worldliner (Reply 37):
However, I am sure I read somewhere that BA are dropping the Kuala Lumpur - Sydney leg, and just making it a flight that terminates in KUL

BA dropped KUL-SYD back in 2000 and the terrminator KUL in 2001. So far, nothing official has been announced about a return
 
YVRLTN
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:40 am

Quoting worldliner (Reply 37):
no North American carriers fly to Seoul either.

AC do from YVR.

I think the more interesting story here is that LH are selling the slots to IAG rather than using them themselves.
Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
 
BestWestern
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:45 am

Quoting LX138 (Reply 35):
Manila (wrong continent) - no way! Very low yielding and is served well by on-off codeshare with CX.

BA have a 777 that sits in HKG for the best part of an afternoon. If they do return to MNL - it will be a tag onto the HKG flight.

Shenzhen is only a 30 minute ferry away from HKG, so unsure of the benefits of a direct Shenzhen service, execpt for cargo.

Xiamen has yet to proove itself with KLM - too early for a second EU service.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
MCOGVADCA
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:47 am

Quoting worldliner (Reply 37):
The pax are used to Korean culture and only Korean carriers can provide this, hence why no North American carriers fly to Seoul either.

United and Delta both fly to ICN from SFO and DTW, respectively.

You do make a valid point though; O&D traffic to ICN is overwhelmingly Korean, which explains why KE is able to fly to so many destinations in North America (along with its fantastic connecting opportunities to Japan and China), while US carriers only serve two cities from ICN total.
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qf002
Posts: 3692
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:14 am

RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Sat Sep 24, 2011 7:06 am

Quoting bastew (Reply 29):
In fact I see more co-operation with QF/BA in the years to come. They have demonstrated through their recent joint cuts on the 'kangaroo route' that the Joint Services Agreement is working for them.

I agree with increased cooperation (and that it will certainly influence their network decisions going to Asia), I'm not so sure about the second sentence -- surely a halving of operations shows that the JV isn't being all that successful (ie even with it they are suffering badly?)

Quoting worldliner (Reply 37):
However, I am sure I read somewhere that BA are dropping the Kuala Lumpur - Sydney leg, and just making it a flight that terminates in KUL.

I think you're thinking of BKK here. BA are dropping BKK-SYD and making the BKK flight a terminator from next March.
 
LJ
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Sat Sep 24, 2011 9:55 am

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 36):

IB already serves MAD-LIM. However, unlike AF/KL, IB does not offer connections to Asia and many other destinations via MAD, as compared to AF via CDG and KL via AMS. AF recently resumed CDG-LIM 5x weekly and is benefiting from high LFs on the route. KL operates AMS-LIM daily and also records high LFs on the route.

The Europe - Lima market is already getting crowded. Not only do IB, AF, KL and UX already fly to LIM, LH is rumored to enter this market as well.

Quoting worldliner (Reply 37):

For example, the reason that airline don't fly to Seoul, is because the majority of pax that fly to Seoul, are Korean. The pax are used to Korean culture and only Korean carriers can provide this, hence why no North American carriers fly to Seoul either.

That argument doesn't go well for European airlines both KL, AF and LH have daily flights to ICN, Why shouldn't BA?
 
B747-4U3
Posts: 617
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:06 am

Quoting LX138 (Reply 35):
Could see SGN, KUL and even TPE working.

SGN might make a viable tag-on to the BKK route once it stops continuing to SYD. The plane will be sitting in BKK for many hours anyway, so if the economics work out it might be viable.

I personally can't see TPE working unless it is going to be served at least 5 weekly. CI have tried 3 weekly non-stop and have already reduced it. Connections to TPE are so easy and frequent via HKG that the frequency of a non-stop LHR-TPE service will have to be near daily, otherwise it's easier to go via HKG. It could potentially be added as a tag-on to HKG, but then what is the advantage of that over a connection with CX.

Quoting LX138 (Reply 35):
ICN is completely covered by Korean and Asiana and most of that traffic is of the ethnic VFR type - so theres no chance there at the moment.

I disagree. I think of all of the potential routes mentioned, this is one of the stronger ones. Fares from LHR-ICN aren't cheap when compared to flights of similar lengths. I have often seen a one-stop service to Seoul more expensive than non-stop flights to HKG - which is a longer flight time. There is no reason why BA should be less successful in the Korean market than they are in the Japanese market - where they offer more capacity than their Japanese rivals.

BA also sends people to Seoul via Tokyo on JL, so I presume BA must have a good idea of how many of their customers could use this service and how much of the market they could gain with a non-stop flight.

Whilst it is true that there is a lot of ethnic VFR traffic (which could be coaxed to use BA if the price is right) there is also a lot of business traffic and cargo which BA could potentially tap into.

Quoting LX138 (Reply 35):
Manila (wrong continent) - no way! Very low yielding and is served well by on-off codeshare with CX.

That isn't that much different to TPE which is well served via CX.

Quoting LX138 (Reply 35):
Santiago - nope, its too far, and BA hate sending planes long distances where they can't get a good yield (thinking MEL), and no, a constant stream of gap year students paying £900 per ticket doesnt count.

BA operate a number of long routes where yields may be questionable....Mauritius, Cancun, Male. I appreciate that Santiago is further than those destinations, but there is the advantage of stronger business travel to Santiago. Again, BA used to fly there via EZE and now send people there via Madrid, so I would imagine they would have a pretty good idea of what the yields could be like.

Quoting worldliner (Reply 37):
For example, the reason that airline don't fly to Seoul, is because the majority of pax that fly to Seoul, are Korean. The pax are used to Korean culture and only Korean carriers can provide this, hence why no North American carriers fly to Seoul either.

United, Delta, Air Canada?

Furthermore, KLM, Air France, Aeroflot, Finnair and Lufthansa fly there from Europe, so there must be enough demand for non-Korean services for so many non-Korean carriers to fly there.
 
fcogafa
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:11 am

Taipei couldn't support the original three CAL A340 flights a week, which is now down to two, so the logic of more carriers on the route would be questionable.

As the UK has no direct services to Guangzou it might be an idea, especially as the BAA were bleating on about the lack of UK services to China this week, although HKG is not that really far away.
 
SCL767
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:33 am

Quoting LJ (Reply 43):
The Europe - Lima market is already getting crowded. Not only do IB, AF, KL and UX already fly to LIM, LH is rumored to enter this market as well.

Indeed, UX has reduced frequency on the MAD-LIM route to 4x weekly and IB will soon operate the MAD-LIM route 9x weekly. LH currently routes pax traveling between FRA and LIM via BOG on AV and via CCS on TA. LAN offers daily rapid connections between FRA and LIM on its own metal via MAD. LAN has expressed an interest in operating into LHR from LAN's hubs at LIM and SCL with the B-787s. Besides S7, LAN is currently the only major OW carrier that does not serve LHR.

Quoting B747-4U3 (Reply 44):
Again, BA used to fly there via EZE and now send people there via Madrid, so I would imagine they would have a pretty good idea of what the yields could be like.

BA also places its code on one of LAN's daily SCL-GRU services. It's actually the only service operated by LAN that BA places its code on.
 
LX138
Posts: 323
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RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Sat Sep 24, 2011 3:08 pm

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 36):
SCL-Europe is low yielding? Tell that to AF!

I didn't say it was low yielding in general, I mean that BA require a certain yield to find the justification to operate it, even if they can make money. I suspect AF probably have most of the connecting traffic mopped up too, so BA would rely more on O&D which is pretty thin between LON and SCL. Trust me I'd love a LHR-SCL flight, i'd be the first on it!

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 40):
BA have a 777 that sits in HKG for the best part of an afternoon. If they do return to MNL - it will be a tag onto the HKG flight.

Which is what they did back in the old days wasn't it? The problem is that MNL is famous for being low-yielding to just about anywhere, so BA in the past have decided that paying for another set of landing and navigation fees, handling costs, and crewing a flight over to MNL is just not covered by the ticket prices they could get.

Quoting B747-4U3 (Reply 44):
I personally can't see TPE working unless it is going to be served at least 5 weekly. CI have tried 3 weekly non-stop and have already reduced it. Connections to TPE are so easy and frequent via HKG that the frequency of a non-stop LHR-TPE service will have to be near daily, otherwise it's easier to go via HKG. It could potentially be added as a tag-on to HKG, but then what is the advantage of that over a connection with CX.

I think its interesting because on paper a BA LHR-TPE flight seems doomed. But then you think how non-existent the brands of China Airlines and EVA are over here and you wonder if the BA flight would stand out? Theres an enormous amount of student traffic to TPE ex LHR, and the tickets are insanely expensive, I've done it twice!

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 45):
As the UK has no direct services to Guangzou it might be an idea

Yep, I think it would be a strong route.
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SCL767
Posts: 2812
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 6:25 am

RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Sat Sep 24, 2011 3:48 pm

Quoting LX138 (Reply 47):
I didn't say it was low yielding in general, I mean that BA require a certain yield to find the justification to operate it, even if they can make money. I suspect AF probably have most of the connecting traffic mopped up too, so BA would rely more on O&D which is pretty thin between LON and SCL. Trust me I'd love a LHR-SCL flight, i'd be the first on it!

SCL happens to be a major financial and business center and is also a major metropolitan region in the Southern Hemisphere. The Chilean economy has grown significantly over the past decade and as a result, major carriers are adding more flights into SCL. LAN does not operate in the same way as BA and also benefits from lower operating costs. LAN will be the first carrier in the Western Hemisphere to operate the B-787 Dreamliner, which makes the SCL-LHR route feasible for LAN for various reasons. LHR is also a major OW hub, thus pax will have more options to connect throughout the world via LHR. Interesting to note that next year, Qantas will launch SYD-SCL 3x weekly and already plans on operating the route on a daily basis. LAN also operates SCL-AKL-SYD daily and SCL-MAD-FRA daily. Other airlines such as EK and QR are interested in serving SCL as well.
 
BestWestern
Posts: 8362
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

RE: IAG/BA Acquires 6 Daily LHR Slot Pairs From Bmi

Sat Sep 24, 2011 4:28 pm

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 45):
As the UK has no direct services to Guangzou it might be an idea, especially as the BAA were bleating on about the lack of UK services to China this week, although HKG is not that really far away.

Guangzhou makes sense, but we have seen a huge increase in capacity over the past twelve months from CAN to europe. CDG is now x12 weekly, and AMS is now daily direct rather than via PEK.

This has had an effect on yield. AF have now scheduled aircraft with the smallest J cabin and no Premiere. Even though it is very easy to get Z class most days of the week.
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