787 First Delivery On Monday!

WROORD · Sat Sep 24, 2011 6:50 pm

787 first delivery to ANA on Monday. You can follow it live here:

http://www.newairplane.com/787/firstDelivery/#/en/home/

trigged · Sat Sep 24, 2011 10:39 pm

Outstanding! Glad to see her enter commercial service.

laxboeingman · Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:15 pm

YES, finally! Congrats to Boeing and ANA, again. I am very excited this is finally happening. The revolution of flight is now here. I cannot wait to see her in service. This is the completion, or just the start depending on how you want to think of it, to many years worth of work and time. This is a positive for Boeing, and now things should start to turn around for them.

Thank you for all questions/comments,

laxboeingman

P.S. Thank you very much for the link.

LGWflyer · Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:33 pm

Wow finally after all this time! Im glad, hopefully soon more airlines will get them and the 787 I HOPE will be part of daily life at the airport.

flyorski · Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:46 pm

Wow! That is a nice link. Congrats Boeing and ANA! Glad it will finally be in revenue service!

ual747den · Sun Sep 25, 2011 12:14 am

That is a really neat website! I can't wait to get on that bird, as soon as they get familiar with the aircraft and start sending it on long-haul International I plan on booking my flight!

Does anyone know when and where the first 787's are going to be deployed?

I also have a very strong feeling that we will see some big announcements on new routes here soon.....

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fpetrutiu · Sun Sep 25, 2011 12:28 am

I had acctually started flyinh STAR alliance and United because of this bird. I just got my first United Credit Card to start acumlating miles. Congrats to Boeing and to ANA, look forward flying with them. Can;t wait for Delta to take delivery of theirs though, but that would be a long time from now, if ever...

WarRI1 · Sun Sep 25, 2011 12:39 am

Quoting flyorski (Reply 4):
Wow! That is a nice link. Congrats Boeing and ANA! Glad it will finally be in revenue service!

I agree with you. At long last, Boeing will deliver this aircraft. I'll bet Boeing and its workers are breathing a sigh of relief, along with ANA.

BlueBus · Sun Sep 25, 2011 12:56 am

it is a bit crazy that the 787 will go to ANA before the 7478F will go to Cargolux. Boeing will have a live feed starting at 9a PST on Monday to cover the events and looks like another one for the delivery flight on Tuesday morning.

This is the best schedule of the events I could find. I was hoping to get a more detailed by the time on what is happening when, but unable to find it...

http://www.airlinereporter.com/2011/...787-dreamliner-to-ana-this-monday/

I think I heard that Obama will be in SEA during this time too. Wonder if he will stop by.

carbon787 · Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:27 am

Great to see it finally entering service, a very long time coming.
Looking forward to my first flight on the 787, whenever that may be.
Oh and Kiwi.....bite your bum!

jogales · Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:30 am

Seems like it was forever ago that we got to see it roll out for the first time. Oh, wait...

In all seriousness, congratulations to Boeing! I'm looking forward to seeing these all over the sky.

Josh

Worldliner · Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:34 am

Wahoo! Can't wait to see this bird in the air, and plenty more in the future!

Stitch · Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:40 am

Quoting BlueBus (Reply 9):
it is a bit crazy that the 787 will go to ANA before the 7478F will go to Cargolux.

Well that is how it was supposed to happen way back when.

14ccKemiskt · Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:49 am

Am I the only one that feels that the ANA 787 special livery is not that attractive?

fpetrutiu · Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:52 am

Quoting 14ccKemiskt (Reply 15):
Am I the only one that feels that the ANA 787 special livery is not that attractive?

Nope. I agree with you on that one.

WarRI1 · Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:53 am

Quoting worldliner (Reply 12):
Wahoo! Can't wait to see this bird in the air, and plenty more in the [email protected]

I wonder, can this 787 operate on an 8700 foot runway?

fpetrutiu · Sun Sep 25, 2011 2:03 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 17):
I wonder, can this 787 operate on an 8700 foot runway?

If a 77W can do it, I am pretty sure the 787 will have absolutely no problem with it.

atnight · Sun Sep 25, 2011 2:05 am

Quoting fpetrutiu (Reply 13):
In all fairness, today, it is the most advanced comercial airliner in the world. Can anyone argue that? Again, today..

First, Congrats to ANA for FINALLY getting the 787.. I hope they love it and enjoy it and that it proves a total success!

But I have to admit that I am not as exited as I was for the A380 when it first got delivered, since it doesn't have the wow factor of a technical marvel as the A380 does.. it simply just doesn't...

Nevertheless, I also don't think that anyone can deny that there are many advances on the 787 that makes it one of the next gen aircraft... BUT remember that it's still evolutionary, not revolutionary.... and besides, I wouldn't necessarily say that the 787 it's right now the most technically advance aircraft, because many could argued that if you count in all that the aircraft represents (all systems, all features, all what it has), and not just some particular aspects, the A380 could still be the more technically advance aircraft than the 787... that again is what I think... in fact, if you look at what aircraft has more advanced features provided to the customers at a commercial level, the A380 has features that the 787 will never match, so your assessment can be argued and perhaps is best to always stick to a personal opinion in regards to what represents the most advance aircraft.... the good thing is that we'll be flying better and more advance aircraft in the future to many more destinations!!

So I hope to fly the 787 soon... I just hope they get their deliveries going!! Once again, congrats to ANA!

PS: Does anyone have a list of production and delivery schedule for the 787, like the A380 production thread? If so, could you start one?

zkeoj · Sun Sep 25, 2011 2:06 am

Finally - it will be great to see her in service! Does anybody know in what configuration this one is? ANA only has the international configuration with 46 J seats on their webpage, but somehow I think this one just has 2 rows of J, and the rest is Y? (http://www.ana.co.jp/wws/us/e/asw_common/inflight/seatmap/b787_8/)

I am booked on HND-HIJ-HND, and would love to know

Cheers
micha

fpetrutiu · Sun Sep 25, 2011 2:17 am

Quoting atnight (Reply 19):
the A380 has features that the 787 will never match

Care to mention a few? Like window shades? Camera in the tail so it can take turns? Not sure what features are thinking about. Also, cabin altitude on the 787 is now about 6000ft as opposed to 8000ft on any other plane (including the A380), which should make it a lot more comforatble ride. Moslty built of carbon fiber, smooth fuselage that reduces drag (no rivets). HUD, active gust alieviation system (borrowed from the B2) which is the first time in civil use. Now, what does the A380 have so new that it is more advanced except its size. It is basically a 747 with new engines and the second floor extended all the way to the tail.

BTW, I love the A380, don't get me wrong. But today, I think the 787 is a real step forward.

fpetrutiu · Sun Sep 25, 2011 2:19 am

Quoting ZKEOJ (Reply 20):
I am booked on HND-HIJ-HND, and would love to know

Cool! would love to hear your opinion on the 787 as a passenger. Please, please open a thread on it here!

qf002 · Sun Sep 25, 2011 2:36 am

This is exciting news. Now just to find a way to get to Japan to try this out

Quoting UAL747DEN (Reply 5):
Does anyone know when and where the first 787's are going to be deployed?

Domestic, then to China. First long haul is next February (I think?) to FRA.

zkeoj · Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:14 am

Quoting fpetrutiu (Reply 22):

Will do - might be my first TP ever

But still not sure about configuration. Weird that even in F/J ANA doesn't let you reserve seats in advance online. And since there is no call center anywhere close to here (NZ/OZ), and the ANA number in Japan didn't work, I had to call the US call center. Relatively unfriendly person, and all I got was "all window seats are gone, I can give you 2C and 2H" - which still doesn't help me with the configuration, haha! Oh, and I think they only have J on the 787, but the ticket says "First"...

Cheers
micha

jacobin777 · Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:19 am

Quoting atnight (Reply 19):
since it doesn't have the wow factor of a technical marvel as the A380 does.. it simply just doesn't...

Say what?

kanban · Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:29 am

Quoting fpetrutiu (Reply 21):
the A380 has features that the 787 will never match

Care to mention a few?

Forgot the wing tip magnets for attracting small aircraft

Stitch · Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:43 am

Quoting 14ccKemiskt (Reply 15):
Am I the only one that feels that the ANA 787 special livery is not that attractive?

At least it has color, which puts it up on what JL will be taking delivery of their birds in.

vee1rot8 · Sun Sep 25, 2011 4:11 am

It's good to see this airplane enter service finally. As for those arguing about who has the more technically advanced airplane, you could (and most probably will) be arguing for some time. There are advances which both the 787 and the A380 have over each other which suit the particular airplane. First, it's like comparing apples and oranges. They are in different classes and both possess their own "wow" factors. As far as in service deliveries go, I'd like to know who HAS delivered their planes on time. Everyone runs into something that delays delivery on new aircraft. I think most would like to see a "finished" product entered into service than a rushed one with faults that are going to come out at the wrong moment. With that said, congrats to Boeing and ANA, and I hope to see it in Japan when I'm there late next month.

SchorschNG · Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:30 am

EIS is always nice, but it is something like an island of happiness in an ocean of sadness.
The B787's EIS is in this respect just like the A380's EIS.

First it is much too late, in this case a small 40 month delay. The fact it works now cannot hide the fact that the plan went completely out of control.
Second, and actually more important, the first delivery is one aircraft out of several hundred. But when is the EIS of LN0100?
Originally planned - if I remember correctly - around end of 2009 to mid 2010. That would have been 18-24 month after first aircraft EIS. Now I can't see it before late 2013: this year we have at best half a dozen B787. But might well be, that is becomes less as all resources were concentrated on getting one aircraft fly (like the A380). Next year probably 30 more.
2013 should see the line stabilize, but we have seen on the A380 how difficult that can be.
So I wouldn't expect LN0100 before late 2013.
Third, despite all the technology (which is indeed very advanced, and sometimes very untested) the B787 has somehow the stigma of being "below target": severely overweight, SFC shortfall. Compared to the hype that was made around "all-carbon" and "leapfrog", it appears after all as "just another twinjet" (which is OK, it's a good one).

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to compare Airbus' versus Boeing performance. I just happen to see a pattern.
And I have this slight feeling of disappointment when I think of the B787: everything came in worse as originally thought.

Maybe the in-service experience makes up for all negative news of the last 4 years.

TK773ER · Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:06 am

Congratulations to both Boeing and ANA cant wait to see more of these birds flying around and our change hopefully next year when the QF group receive theirs we too can finally get the chance to fly on the 787.......

AirPacific747 · Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:33 am

I just saw the video with the interior of the ANA 787.. the moodlighting is nice, but the interior that ANA chose looks boring. I am sure that you feel a huge difference when you are actually onboard the aircraft, but except for the larger windows, this could have looked like a 767 with dreamliner interior to me. Nothing too revolutionary about the interior. I would love to be a pax onboard it though. I am sure you can only be positively surprised.

gunsontheroof · Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:40 am

Quoting atnight (Reply 19):
But I have to admit that I am not as exited as I was for the A380 when it first got delivered, since it doesn't have the wow factor of a technical marvel as the A380 does.. it simply just doesn't...

A380 BIG!=pinnacle of modern engineering...sure. Care to elaborate on your reasoning here? The A380 is absolutely fantastic in its mission role, but I think it's a bit of a stretch to say that Airbus took the bigger gamble than Boeing here (bear in mind that taking a "gamble" hardly means that Boeing made all the right calls). The A380 (as you said) definitely delivers more "wow" factor than the 787, but there's absolutely no way that it will ever come close to being as much of a (cue cliche') "game changer" as the 787 and very possibly, the A350. Given its limited mission applications, I'd be shocked if the A380 ends up coming anywhere near the 787s current order total...

That being said, I hope Boeing finally has their act together. I think we're finally at the point where even THEY will admit that outsourcing critical components of the program to third parties was a misguided decision...the cost of the delays incurred on this program far outweigh any potential savings incurred by outsourcing and I don't think it's unreasonable to say that this plane would already be in service had Boeing kept more of the work in house. I'll be very surprised if the next new airplane program relies as heavily on third-party suppliers as the 787 has.

Boeing is going to bring in a lot more orders for this plane in the next decade and can still make money on it if they've learned anything from the last seven years--let's hope they do!

cuban8 · Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:49 am

Quoting SchorschNG (Reply 29):
And I have this slight feeling of disappointment when I think of the B787: everything came in worse as originally thought.

There are a lot of opinions regarding the B787 and it's technology, performance and all the hick ups in the program. Regardless of that, I think these days we should all enjoy that a new airplane type is going to see the sky's commercially! Some people even thought it would never make it??!!

In a few weeks from now we can argue about the specs, dispatch reliability, break even point and performance. We'll probably have some numbers from ANA as well and that will give us some nice discussions about the B787 vs other airplanes.

For now, let's just enjoy the B787 and (even though late) congratulate Boeing for its latest addition to the aviation world!!!

BrouAviation · Sun Sep 25, 2011 10:41 am

Finally! EIS is nice.

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 32):
I think we're finally at the point where even THEY will admit that outsourcing critical components of the program to third parties was a misguided decision.

I sure hope they aren't as outsourcing is the future of aircraft construction. That Boeing screwed up in the 787 design process doesn't mean anything about the principle of outsourcing itself. It's also about whom you out-source to.

I am sure Boeing will use major outsourcing in their next major project as well, but wether or not Alenia will get a piece of the pie, only time can tell.

EPA001 · Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:00 am

Quoting BrouAviation (Reply 34):
Finally! EIS is nice.

Indeed it is, but it is also long, long over due.

Quoting BrouAviation (Reply 34):
It's also about whom you out-source to.

Even more important is how you are supervising your out-sorted work. Imho that is where they lost control during the design and early manufacturing process.

Nevertheless this (I hope) will be a very fine aircraft. Not a game changer since it is just the next evolution in civil aviation airliners, but of course a highly modern and hopefully very comfortable and profitable airliner for the customers (both passengers and airlines).

AirPacific747 · Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:39 am

Quoting fpetrutiu (Reply 13):
Airbus with the A350 is riding on a road already plowed by Boeing when it comes to technology.

I'd say that goes both ways. As far as I know, the 777 and 787 use FBW technology, which Airbus was the first to develop. Boeing is still keeping the yoke though, so it isn't too obvious.

Charlienoble · Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:56 am

Quoting SchorschNG (Reply 29):
Don't get me wrong, I don't want to compare Airbus' versus Boeing performance. I just happen to see a pattern.

I see a pattern also...707, 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, 777...all extremely successful programs over the past 50 years. And some of them had substantial doubt cast on their viability at one point or another. I'm thinking that Boeing's current troubles will pass.

Quoting SchorschNG (Reply 29):
And I have this slight feeling of disappointment when I think of the B787: everything came in worse as originally thought.

Pretty standard feeling when you compare hype to the real thing. I don't let the fact that the marketing punks promised us the moon detract from how nice of an airplane this is.

Not every airplane can be as awesome as the 757

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 35):
Not a game changer since it is just the next evolution in civil aviation airliners

By that definition there will be no "game changers", ever. Nobody is going to make 'revolutionary' changes to commercial air travel...too much risk.

I think the 787 could have been a game changer (open up more point to point, longer/thinner routes in greater comfort, per the original vision), but my guess is that airlines will jam them full of people and fly to their current destinations more profitably!

XaraB · Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:05 pm

Quoting fpetrutiu (Reply 21):

I'd urge you to recheck some of those statements of yours. I counted more wrongs than rights in your post... Hints: Cameras, cabin altitude, load alleviation, and a general lack of detail knowledge of basically any civilian aircraft's technical properties.

foxtrot2 · Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:05 pm

When is the expected date for TOM to recieve its 787? When will it start using the 787 and what routes will it fly?

LGWflyer · Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:18 pm

Quoting foxtrot2 (Reply 39):
When is the expected date for TOM to recieve its 787? When will it start using the 787 and what routes will it fly?

Thomson should be getting the 787 I think around the start of 2012. They're most likely to be flown from LGW and MAN to Florida and the Carribean. They was supposed to be adding some new destinations like Hawaii etc... when they got the aircraft. But that news was a while ago.

aircanada014 · Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:25 pm

finally congrats to Boeing and our Star Alliance partner ANA

Charlienoble · Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:27 pm

And not to take the thread too far off topic, all of this hand-wringing about Boeing's problems with the 787 seems unwarranted to me.

I think that for the next 30 years, if you want a widebody aircraft you're going to be looking at the 787 or the A350. Not every route can fill an A350, and Airbus couldn't supply all of that demand by themselves anyway...just not enough production capacity in one company. So unless the 787 loses certification due to fundamental technical flaws - admittedly always a possiblility - they are going to continue to sell a lot of them.

In one sense, Boeing has some reason to feel confident about their situation because the 787 has been certified and has demonstrated superior efficiency compared to the other aircraft in its class - even if not quite (yet) what was initially assumed. I wish Airbus all the best with the A350, but if the 787 taught us anything it's that you can't count your chickens until they fly (sorry for the mixed metaphor). People talk about the A350 like it's a done deal - not quite.

[Edited 2011-09-25 06:29:11]

atnight · Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:27 pm

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 32):
Care to elaborate on your reasoning here? The A380 is absolutely fantastic in its mission role, but I think it's a bit of a stretch to say that Airbus took the bigger gamble than Boeing here (bear in mind that taking a "gamble" hardly means that Boeing made all the right calls). The A380 (as you said) definitely delivers more "wow" factor than the 787, but there's absolutely no way that it will ever come close to being as much of a (cue cliche') "game changer" as the 787 and very possibly, the A350. Given its limited mission applications, I'd be shocked if the A380 ends up coming anywhere near the 787s current order total...

Really?? the 787 becoming a game changer? it's not happening, all it is doing is replacing aircraft with the same flight profiles... and you don't think Airbus took a bigger gamble with the A380? just from the point that the VLA sector was dying while the twin was growing should tell you otherwise... and it's 100% true that the A380 won't have that many orders compared to the 787, but that was never supposed to be the case (you really think anyone will believe that?)... and all I said that the A380 has a bigger WOW factor than the 787, which makes it the more technological marvel... at any rate, people here tend to defend their preference with forks and knives, instead of taking things objectively. SAD

Going back to topic, I am happy the 787 is finally flying with a customer.... would like to know when we'll see some in florida... perhaps with LAN, which I would definitely take a flight with!

Charlienoble · Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:36 pm

Quoting atnight (Reply 43):
Really?? the 787 becoming a game changer? it's not happening, all it is doing is replacing aircraft with the same flight profiles...

Agreed...remember the "game change" was supposed to be how the 787s would be flying point to point, long range all over the world with 200 people basking in unbridled luxury LOL. We probably should have figured that was a marketing dream.

Even so, the substantial fuel savings and noise reduction are WIN for everyone.

BrouAviation · Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:43 pm

Quoting atnight (Reply 43):
the A380 has a bigger WOW factor than the 787, which makes it the more technological marvel...

I do not at all understand your reasoning here. Both are technological marvels, what has the 'WOW-factor' (mostly imposed by ignorant passengers without the slightest clue about aerospace engineering) got to do with that?

ck8msp · Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:43 pm

Quoting atnight (Reply 43):
Really?? the 787 becoming a game changer? it's not happening, all it is doing is replacing aircraft with the same flight profiles..

Really? How many new route pairings are becoming possible (read: economical) with the 787 that would not happen without it? Would CO/UA be flying to Aukland and Lagos without this plane from Houston?

AirPacific747 · Sun Sep 25, 2011 2:05 pm

Quoting fpetrutiu (Reply 21):
active gust alieviation system (borrowed from the B2) which is the first time in civil use.

It is a part of the A320-series developed in the 80's...

Rara · Sun Sep 25, 2011 2:07 pm

Quoting CharlieNoble (Reply 37):
By that definition there will be no "game changers", ever.

I think there were a couple of "game changers" in the past. The definition should probably be: an aircraft that sufficiently influences the market for other aircraft that aren't necessarily in its class, and not only for its immediate predecessor. The 777, for instance, was a "game changer" in the sense that it pretty much ended the competitiveness of four-holers, except in the VLA segment.

In that sense, I don't see the 787 becoming a game changer. It's just a new (and probably very good) twinjet. Now, obviously the increased efficiency makes some new routes viable for airlines. That's to be expected with a new plane, though. Other than that:

Quoting CharlieNoble (Reply 44):

Even so, the substantial fuel savings and noise reduction are WIN for everyone.

dfambro · Sun Sep 25, 2011 2:19 pm

Quoting atnight (Reply 43):
all it is doing is replacing aircraft with the same flight profiles...

Quoting CharlieNoble (Reply 44):
Agreed...remember the "game change" was supposed to be how the 787s would be flying point to point, long range all over the world

Well, we're finally getting direct to Tokyo service here in BOS due to the 787, and as far as I'm concerned that changes the game out of BOS in a really good way!

GCT64 · Sun Sep 25, 2011 2:19 pm

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 47):
Quoting fpetrutiu (Reply 21):active gust alieviation system (borrowed from the B2) which is the first time in civil use.It is a part of the A320-series developed in the 80's...

I thought it was first introduced on the Tristar 500 (Wiki reckons #1176 was the first Tristar 500 fitted with it in production - f.f. 16 Nov 79)

AirPacific747 · Sun Sep 25, 2011 2:32 pm

Quoting GCT64 (Reply 50):
I thought it was first introduced on the Tristar 500 (Wiki reckons #1176 was the first Tristar 500 fitted with it in production - f.f. 16 Nov 79)

You might be right. I don't know that aircraft. Either way, the 787 is not the first civil airliner to use it.

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