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point2point
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RE: New Frontier/Republic Part 27

Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:39 pm

Just saw an article about F9 at CAPA Center for Aviation and the cuts at MKE and MCI. Nothing really stated that most here don't already know, but kinda puts things into prospective.

http://www.centreforaviation.com/ana...ity-at-milwaukee-kansas-city-59655
 
bahadir
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RE: New Frontier/Republic Part 27

Sat Oct 01, 2011 2:28 pm

How about SNA-DCA? That would collect pretty good premium.. If I am not mistaken TWA used to fly this route with 757s.

Also, I ended up flying den-pvu-den flight last week.. This tiny little airport was able to fill more than enough seats.. I am not sure about the yield though..
Earthbound misfit I
 
ScottB
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RE: New Frontier/Republic Part 27

Sat Oct 01, 2011 3:31 pm

Quoting bahadir (Reply 51):
How about SNA-DCA? That would collect pretty good premium.. If I am not mistaken TWA used to fly this route with 757s.

You are mistaken. TWA flew LAX-DCA. It can't happen unless beyond-perimeter slot exemptions were to become available, and the existing slot exemptions can't be used for anything aside from the route for which they were granted -- otherwise you'd almost certainly have already seen US move its LAS-DCA to either SFO-DCA or LAX-DCA. They'd also likely have to take weight restrictions to get an A319 to DCA from SNA's 5700-foot runway.

Quoting mikefrommke (Reply 47):
Quoting mariner (Reply 46):
AUS-MKE via BKG, but I guess anything is possible.

I will be next Friday, but it just happens that the intro fare and times made sense. I'm never flown an F9 E145 before either, so I figured I'd get my credit while I still can.

That fact that they're carrying AUS-MKE passengers via BKG because the fare is cheap doesn't speak well to the viability of either flight, since the E145 has high unit costs.

Quoting mariner (Reply 43):
there are massive Christian communities who regard LAX as the Gate to Sodom and that somewhere like SNA gives them access to the (equally massive) Christian communities of SoCal.

They are a more than a bit delusional, as BUR is clearly the Gate to Sodom in SoCal due to one of the key industries of the Valley. And LAX has nothing on SFO in that regard, either.
 
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mariner
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RE: New Frontier/Republic Part 27

Sat Oct 01, 2011 6:06 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 52):
That fact that they're carrying AUS-MKE passengers via BKG because the fare is cheap doesn't speak well to the viability of either flight, since the E145 has high unit costs.

Whoa - I don't know that they are. It was pure speculation on my part and the intro fares AUS-BKG are long gone.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 52):
They are a more than a bit delusional, as BUR is clearly the Gate to Sodom in SoCal due to one of the key industries of the Valley. And LAX has nothing on SFO in that regard, either.

They may be, but it is what they believe and I don't think any of it is quite rational.

I know of Southern Baptists who prefer not to fly into SFO and some from other denominations who agree. Mom was very upset when we moved to Russian River, being so close to San Francisco - a lot of talk about "your kind of people." LOL.

Especially in matters religious, people believe what they want to believe. And airlines, too, sometimes.

mariner

[Edited 2011-10-01 11:31:04]
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PlanesNTrains
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RE: New Frontier/Republic Part 27

Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:37 am

Quoting ScottB (Reply 52):
That fact that they're carrying AUS-MKE passengers via BKG because the fare is cheap
Quoting mariner (Reply 53):
Whoa - I don't know that they are. It was pure speculation on my part and the intro fares AUS-BKG are long gone.

I think he might have been referring to this:

Quoting mikefrommke (Reply 47):
I will be next Friday, but it just happens that the intro fare and times made sense

But who knows when the itinerary was purchased or what he paid.

Hey, what about SNA-COS?  

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mikefrommke
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RE: New Frontier/Republic Part 27

Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:39 am

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 54):
But who knows when the itinerary was purchased or what he paid.

It was only a few weeks after service was announced. Was priced below the AUS-MCI-MKE route at the time.
 
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mariner
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RE: New Frontier/Republic Part 27

Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:28 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 49):
It's a hornet's nest. Better to see what happens and if it does happen.

Okay, it's out there.

DL To Start LAX-DEN (by FL787 Oct 3 2011 in Civil Aviation)

mariner
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bjorn14
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RE: New Frontier/Republic Part 27

Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:41 am

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 54):
Hey, what about SNA-COS?

Not a bad idea if you can get people to think that COS can be a gateway to the Summit County ski areas. They are almost (OK 40 mi.) as close to DEN.
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
ScottB
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RE: New Frontier/Republic Part 27

Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:53 pm

Quoting mikefrommke (Reply 55):
Was priced below the AUS-MCI-MKE route at the time.

...which doesn't speak well to the viability of the AUS/MKE-BKG flying on the E145, or it says that Frontier revenue management screwed up, in the sense that the intro pricing should be limited to just the individual sectors and not pricing the trip below the fare via MCI.

Quoting mariner (Reply 56):
Okay, it's out there.

DL To Start LAX-DEN

Back when NW responded to F9 adding MSP-LAX, I would have agreed that this route was retaliation -- but then in 2004, DEN-LAX was a far less competitive route than it is today. The entry of Southwest into the DEN-LAX market has already sharply reduced yields, and a few hundred seats each way on CR7/CR9 equipment is really a drop in the bucket when you consider the 2700 daily seats already available each way -- and that doesn't even account for DEN-SNA/BUR/ONT. IMO it is far more about DL building up LAX than about directing retaliation at F9, since DL already offers Delta Connection service from LAX to SFO/OAK/PHX/LAS/SMF/SAN, along with AS or MQ codeshares to several other destinations in the West.
 
mikefrommke
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RE: New Frontier/Republic Part 27

Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:29 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 58):
it says that Frontier revenue management screwed up, in the sense that the intro pricing should be limited to just the individual sectors and not pricing the trip below the fare via MCI.

I think part of it is also the website. The scheduling engine will show one-stops like AUS-BKG-MKE when the plane and flight number is the same. Also, I cannot book AUS-DEN-LAS via the website but I know it is a valid route and it is bookable via travelocity. I wonder how much business they lose by excluding valid routes?
 
alphascan
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RE: New Frontier/Republic Part 27

Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:34 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 58):
IMO it is far more about DL building up LAX than about directing retaliation at F9, since DL already offers Delta Connection service from LAX to SFO/OAK/PHX/LAS/SMF/SAN, along with AS or MQ codeshares to several other destinations in the West.

I agree, its all about building up the LAX ops. I'd think these flights will struggle to be in the black on their own without factoring in incrumental revenues generated by high yielding Asian connecting traffic which might otherwise have gone to Star Alliance carriers.

I'm not sure where the retaliation comment comes in. F9 hasn't done anything to provoke DL in several months have they? They have already capitulated on the MSP/MCI route. And certainly nobody else has suggested it was retaliation.
"To he who only has a hammer in his toolbelt, every problem looks like a nail."
 
rj777
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RE: New Frontier/Republic Part 27

Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:50 pm

I just noticed something..... starting in Nov, F9 has non-stops FROM MKE-OMA on Sundays, but NO non-stops FROM OMA-MKE. Anybody know what's going on?
 
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mariner
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RE: New Frontier/Republic Part 27

Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:04 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 58):
Back when NW responded to F9 adding MSP-LAX, I would have agreed that this route was retaliation

I don't think this LAX-DEN is retaliation. I can't think what it would be retaliation for.

I first mentioned the rumor in connection with the MCI stuff - which, I believe, was retaliation and which I am not convinced Delta will drop.

mariner
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RE: New Frontier/Republic Part 27

Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:49 pm

Quoting mikefrommke (Reply 55):
It was only a few weeks after service was announced. Was priced below the AUS-MCI-MKE route at the time.

It's a very interesting thing. Both AUS-BKG and MKE-BKG seem presently to be doing better than I had expected for the time of year.

The two may be completely unconnected, it may be coincidence - or the time of year. But I suppose it is not impossible to imagine some flow through. There's no non-stop, so anyone flying AUS-MKE (vv) has to stop somewhere and probably change aircraft, and the idea of one stop with one plane service might be attractive.

In which case, it doesn't seem too odd to have an intro or promo fare that is lower than the sum of the two parts, if only to let folk know they can do it.

I don't know what any of it means for the future. Both are slated to end in December and I haven't seen that they are coming back.

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OzarkD9S
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RE: New Frontier/Republic Part 27

Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:51 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 62):


I don't think this LAX-DEN is retaliation.

Nope, just DL providing another market for Skyteam connections. And DEN's international footprint is very weak for the size of the market. It's virtually identical service to AA's LAX-DEN which pretty much serves the same function for OW, tho AA does have some Hollywood corporate contracts in their pocket.
Next up: STL DEN PSP DEN STL
 
stlgph
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RE: New Frontier/Republic Part 27

Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:11 pm

Frontier to fly charter flights from Philadelphia for Apple Vacations
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
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mariner
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RE: New Frontier/Republic Part 27

Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:37 pm

Quoting stlgph (Reply 65):
Frontier to fly charter flights from Philadelphia for Apple Vacations

The first of many, starting at PHL in a couple of weeks. There's an article about the PHL (CUN/PUJ) service here - a sort of vale USA3000:

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/130992328.html

"USA3000, Philadelphia's hometown airline and a sister company to Apple Vacations Inc., will stop flying its own aircraft from Philadelphia to Cancun and Punta Cana the middle of this month.

Instead, Frontier Airlines will pick up the USA3000 flights to those destinations, operating a charter service for Newtown Square-based Apple Vacations.

Travelers from Philadelphia will be able to book seats on the Frontier charter flights to Cancun or Punta Cana through AppleVacations.com, or a travel agent.

"I see it as a good business move," said Kate Murphy, president and CEO of Wings Travel Group in Blue Bell, which books Apple Vacation travel. "Why would you want to be involved in hardware - planes - when you can charter from an existing airline?"

"Frontier obviously would like to bulk up their numbers out of Philadelphia. It seems to me it's the best of both worlds."


There are a few oddities in the article:

"Apple Vacations now charters AirTran Airways and Southwest Airlines in Baltimore and Pittsburgh, and uses Frontier, AirTran and Southwest carriers in St. Louis. Apple uses AirTran in Milwaukee; Frontier in Denver, and JetBlue Airways at JFK airport in New York, Mullen said.

In fact, by January, STL will be all Frontier/USA3000 - CUN, LIR, MBJ and PUJ:

http://www.applevacations.com/flight-schedule/stl-st_louis/

ORD is interesting because it means Frontier will be flying ORD-HUX (yay!) as well as some ORD-CUN.

mariner
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point2point
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RE: New Frontier/Republic Part 27

Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:34 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 56):
Quoting mariner (Reply 49):
It's a hornet's nest. Better to see what happens and if it does happen.

Okay, it's out there.

DL To Start LAX-DEN (by FL787 Oct 3 2011 in Civil Aviation)

mariner

and the "dickeybirds" have sung.

I'm just surprised that they didn't get RAH to do the contract flying.......


edited to add: I would have preferred VX, but oh well.....  Sad

[Edited 2011-10-03 17:36:13]
 
mcg
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RE: New Frontier/Republic Part 27

Tue Oct 04, 2011 4:06 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 66):
In fact, by January, STL will be all Frontier/USA3000 - CUN, LIR, MBJ and PUJ:

http://www.applevacations.com/flight-schedule/stl-st_louis/

ORD is interesting because it means Frontier will be flying ORD-HUX (yay!) as well as some ORD-CUN.

What is HUX? Thanks.
 
kingcavalier
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RE: New Frontier/Republic Part 27

Tue Oct 04, 2011 4:36 pm

Quoting mcg (Reply 68):
What is HUX? Thanks.

HUX HUATULCO, MEXICO

I believe F9 has flown that from DEN in the past.
Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness
 
ScottB
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RE: New Frontier/Republic Part 27

Tue Oct 04, 2011 4:50 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 66):
"Why would you want to be involved in hardware - planes - when you can charter from an existing airline?"

Not that this is your question, of course, but there were valid reasons for Apple to own its own airline -- or there were valid reasons in the past.

A decade or more ago, charter airlines were often unreliable operations using old aircraft, and for Apple to have its own airline helped to control that aspect of the customer experience (i.e. less chance of expensive, complaint-generating multi-day delays). These days, they can get reliable scheduled carriers (like Frontier) to do the flying at competitive costs and with better service guarantees. There's also a greater opportunity to customize the in-flight experience (if that's desired) by owning the airline.

To some degree, if you can transport the passengers at a low cost with an in-house airline, that can also be a competitive advantage, and you get to keep the profits that the charter operator would have otherwise kept. But there are also capital and management costs to having your own airline, and if the margins on the tour business are high enough, the airline operation can be a drag on margins. And again, it seems that scheduled commercial carriers are willing to compete for the business at attractive rates. There's a bit of future risk, in that the subcontracted carriers might pursue better opportunities (in the scheduled business) when the market improves, but a long-term contract like the one inked between Apple & Republic helps to mitigate that risk for Apple in return for guaranteed business for Republic.
 
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mariner
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RE: New Frontier/Republic Part 27

Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:42 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 70):
Not that this is your question, of course, but there were valid reasons for Apple to own its own airline -- or there were valid reasons in the past.

I agree completely, I think there were very valid reasons for Apple to start USA3000 - then.

The flaw in the model is the inherent seasonality of the business, but that probably didn't matter so much when fuel was cheap.

I didn't follow USA3000 all that closely, but I assume that a number of those odd routes connecting domestic cities were to try and counter that seasonality, to do something with the aircraft in the down times, as well as feed into the Mexican/Caribbean routes in the reduced summer schedule.

To some extent, the same applies to Frontier - although the seasons are reversed. As long as I have followed Frontier it has battled through the winter months, other than the plum and snowbird routes.

I would anticipate that next winter (2012) Frontier will be doing the bulk of Apple flying (more than this year), and that it won't just be the present USA3000 route map. It is already a bit more than that, because BOS does not appear on that route map.

I think it is interesting, too, that Apple is retaining Frontier's tiered pricing and is making some play of it - "food on flights!" - promoting Classic and Classic Plus fares even as folk book their Apple Vacation.

The outliers will be those few cities where Apple had already signed a long term contract. I assume that to be true of Airtran at MKE - it would seem silly, otherwise, for Airtran to be doing all the Apple flying there and not Frontier, given the new contract. And I don't know what the hangover deal is with Sun Country at, say, LAN.

The puzzle to me is RSW, which has been a big focus for USA3000 and seems to have a diminished role at Apple now.

Most interesting - to me - is ORD, which is a big (ish) operation for Apple/USA3000 and which is only a foot in the door for Frontier this winter. If - and it remains IF - Frontier does take over the USA3000 flying at ORD, then I wonder what the future possibilities of that are.

And, as always, there are USA3000's authorities for scheduled service - ORD-CUN, for example, and it used to have PHL-CUN. I don't what the plan is for those.

There are other oddities. DEN-RFD came about partly because of the Apple contract, but it seems to be booking extremely well. I don't know what happens to that 1 x weekly DEN-BOS (winter) repositioning flight, but it has attracted some bookings already - not many, and not enough to make it, in itself, break-even, but it doesn't have to be.

Generally, I think this is an extremely smart move, by both Frontier and by Apple, a marriage of mutual interest and benefit. I assume there will be a few glitches this winter as they sort it out - and DEN-BOS may well be one of those - but since the contract allows for "joint venture" routes I think it may offer some unique opportunities.

mariner

[Edited 2011-10-04 12:05:42]
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point2point
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RE: New Frontier/Republic Part 27

Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:27 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 71):
Generally, I think this is an extremely smart move, by both Frontier and by Apple, a marriage of mutual interest and benefit.

So next it could be DEN/MJB (this route really needs to materialize, there is more than enough O&D there), and DEN/HUX, but at about 2600+ miles, can the A319s quite have enough legs for a DEN/PUJ? Remember though, that even with the hot and high in DEN (although this would probably be a winter flight, so we will have just high) the eastbound segment from DEN would probably be easier with the winds than the westbound segment from PUJ.

The longest A319 route that I can find is CDG/SSG at about 3150 miles, but that goes practically straight north/south.
 
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mariner
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RE: New Frontier/Republic Part 27

Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:40 pm

Quoting Point2point (Reply 72):
So next it could be DEN/MJB (this route really needs to materialize, there is more than enough O&D there), and DEN/HUX, but at about 2600+ miles, can the A319s quite have enough legs for a DEN/PUJ?

Jeff Potter's rule of thumb was that the A319 has a range of 2500 miles with an effective commercial payload, so that puts DEN-PUJ outside the limit.

But that has changed a wee bit. Improvements to the performance of both the A319 and the A320 probably add another 100 or so miles to that range, and the "neo" versions of both aircraft will have a bit more than that.

I don't know what this does for DEN-PUJ, whether it would be viable from DEN, but it is already viable from MKE and MCI.

I don't expect to see DEN-HUX as a scheduled route in the near future. Much as I love Huatulco (I nearly moved to Puerto Escondido, just up the coast, instead of NZ), it has struggled to find its place in the tourist world. The upside is that it has very little of the Narco violence that besets much of Mexico.

"Old" Frontier toyed with DEN-MBJ for years, it was one of those routes that we kept expecting to be announced each winter, and although it never materialized, I suspect it may now.

But the beauty of the Apple Vacations contract is that it isn't just DEN.

mariner

edit: I think the A319 used on CDG-SSG has additional fuel tanks and a reduced payload. Air France uses the A319LR (long range) on a number of "long" routes, but in an all business class configuration.

[Edited 2011-10-04 12:47:53]
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RJNUT
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RE: New Frontier/Republic Part 27

Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:56 pm

this is all good, but at least with USA 3000 one could book "flight only " thru the GDS/ online travel sites but the Frontier service has to go thru the Apple website and then it tries to line you up with all these extras travel experiences, similar to Allegiants website!
 
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mariner
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RE: New Frontier/Republic Part 27

Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:00 pm

Quoting RJNUT (Reply 74):
this is all good, but at least with USA 3000 one could book "flight only " thru the GDS/ online travel sites but the Frontier service has to go thru the Apple website and then it tries to line you up with all these extras travel experiences, similar to Allegiants website!

At the moment, yes, this isn't at-risk flying for Frontier. This is also the first winter of the operation and, as I said, the contract allows for future joint ventures, as DEN-LIR is now.

mariner

[Edited 2011-10-04 13:29:44]
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point2point
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RE: New Frontier/Republic Part 27

Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:30 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 73):
edit: I think the A319 used on CDG-SSG has additional fuel tanks and a reduced payload. Air France uses the A319LR (long range) on a number of "long" routes, but in an all business class configuration.

I think that maybe so....

Other long A319 routes (over 2700 miles that I can find) include SW JNB/ACC at 2906m (and a part of it overwater I would guess), QR DOH/STR at 2792m, TU TUN/DXB at 2764m (again, maybe some overwater here) FV LED/IKT at 2756m, LR with SJO/LAX at 2725m and lastly, and closest to home is VX with SFO/BOS at exactly 2700m (and this is pretty much east/west).

So DEN/PUJ at 2612m with a bit of overwater may just be in the range. And I would think that the PUJ/DEN segment would be much more the concern on a route such as this, if it ever were to actually materialize.

And btw, the wiki A320 page (wiki, yeah right) does list the range (fully loaded) of the A319 at 4100m, and of course the source there is Airbus itself. Thought everyone would get a kick out of that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbus_A320_family
 
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mariner
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RE: New Frontier/Republic Part 27

Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:53 pm

Quoting Point2point (Reply 76):
And btw, the wiki A320 page (wiki, yeah right) does list the range (fully loaded) of the A319 at 4100m, and of course the source there is Airbus itself. Thought everyone would get a kick out of that.

This has been a long and very contentious debate, on this website and elsewhere.

The claims that both manufacturers make for their aircraft (A320 and 737) seem at odds with what the commercial airlines say. I have raised it with the Tech Wallahs here, and even the best of them - Astuteman, eg - admit there is an anomaly, but can't explain it.

So the Tech Wallahs stick with the manufacturer's statements and I stick with the airlines. I can find no evidence of any standard A319 flying longer distances than (about) 2500 miles and all the routes longer than that have the extra fuel tanks/reduced capacity.

It was a big problem for JetBlue. Their A320's were range limited for transcons (say 2500 miles) in many weathers, there were often fuel stops. JetBlue took some A320's with additional fuel tanks for those transcons, but for whatever reason (payload?) that wasn't satisfactory either.

LACA used to fly SJO-LAX with the A320 - 2700 miles - and they either had to take payload restrictions or often make a fuel stop, usually ACA or GUA.

Airbus has said that both sharklet A320's and the neo will have full US transcon capability, so I still don't have an answer to the present anomaly. But since the airlines have to fly 'em, I go by what they say - and what they do.

mariner
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point2point
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RE: New Frontier/Republic Part 27

Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:05 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 77):
I stick with the airlines. I can find no evidence of any standard A319 flying longer distances than (about) 2500 miles and all the routes longer than that have the extra fuel tanks/reduced capacity.

  

I agree with you here..... it's the airlines flying passengers in these babies, not the manufacturers. And the discrepancy between the 4100m and 2500m is pretty big, (60% or so) but I would also go by what the airlines state here.

I would also guess that the current conditions of the route (n/s vs e/w, temp, etc.) could affect some percentage of the range, but certainly not up to 60%.
 
GentFromAlaska
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RE: New Frontier/Republic Part 27

Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:27 pm

Quoting Point2point (Reply 76):
So DEN/PUJ at 2612m with a bit of overwater may just be in the range.

I suspect the 2500 statute mile limitation includes a safety buffer This route sounds like it could mirror the HNL-PPG flights I flew on a HA DC10. I don't think its so much the people weight although it could have been with a substantial Samoan pax base. The other concern was cargo. You wouldn't believe what some folks check in with. The family goat would be a start.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
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Tigerguy
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RE: New Frontier/Republic Part 27

Wed Oct 05, 2011 2:05 am

A little news: if, for some reason you were concerned about F9's safety, then, be less concerned.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/fro...veted-iosa-registration-2011-10-04

Quote:
Frontier Airlines has successfully completed the International Air Transport Association's (IATA) Operational Safety Audit (IOSA) and achieved IOSA registration.

You can see what all of that entails in the article, but it's obviously a feather in the cap.

Edit: stopped by the F9 site and was greeted with a spiffy-looking homepage. I was surprised and impressed by the look of it. I have yet to work through it, but it looks promising!

[Edited 2011-10-04 19:18:58]
Good night, and keep watching the skis. Uh, skies.
 
n7371f
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RE: New Frontier/Republic Part 27

Wed Oct 05, 2011 2:34 am

Speaking of safety...I noticed Sunday morning at DIA about 10 Airbus' or so parked along the east side apron of Concourse A. It didn't look like there was any maintenance work being done out there (I didn't see any workers or vehicles) as the planes were just parked for RON's. But it reminded me to double check that all maintenance at DIA is now just line stuff and F9 is completely out of the CO hangar. Otherwise many of those planes would've been parked at the hangar like the old days...
 
point2point
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RE: New Frontier/Republic Part 27

Wed Oct 05, 2011 4:45 pm

Quoting Tigerguy (Reply 80):
A little news: if, for some reason you were concerned about F9's safety, then, be less concerned.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/fro...veted-iosa-registration-2011-10-04

Quote:
Frontier Airlines has successfully completed the International Air Transport Association's (IATA) Operational Safety Audit (IOSA) and achieved IOSA registration.

You can see what all of that entails in the article, but it's obviously a feather in the cap.

A BIG CONGRATULATIONS to F9 and all of its management and wonderful employees for this.

This issue of safety isn't brought up too often here, and I would think that this is an issue that is just a given, that all airlines do the utmost to make sure all passengers first and foremost remain safe when in the presence of an airline. This is even more important I think than profits, routes, and all of the etc.'s that we talk about here.

Again a BIG CONGRATS to F9 for this. It shows that first and foremost they are concerned about each and every passenger that they serve in achieving this award.

[Edited 2011-10-05 09:48:58]
 
norcal
Posts: 1507
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2005 1:44 am

RE: New Frontier/Republic Part 27

Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:30 pm

I don't know if this has been discussed yet but the according to RAH pilots on APC the furloughs have been cancelled.

Enough pilots have volunteered to take leave of absence or reduce their line credit (their pay) in order to save the jobs of their fellow pilots.

Good job teamsters, good showing of unity!
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 24706
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: New Frontier/Republic Part 27

Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:40 pm

Quoting Point2point (Reply 82):
A BIG CONGRATULATIONS to F9 and all of its management and wonderful employees for this.

You realize being in the IOSA registry is SOP these days.

If you are not accredited and maintain accreditation future years some other companies will simply not do business with you.

Virtually every US airline of any meanigfull size is accredited
http://www.iata.org/ps/certification/iosa/Pages/index.aspx

North America
ABX Air, Inc.
Air Canada
Air Transat
Air Wisconsin Airlines Corporation
Alaska Airlines, Inc.
American Airlines
Atlantic Southeast Airlines, Inc.
Atlas Air Inc.
Cargojet Airways Ltd.
Chautauqua Airlines
Colgan Air, Inc.
Comair, Inc.
Compass Airlines, Inc
Continental Airlines, Inc.
Delta Air Lines
ExpressJet Airlines, Inc.
Federal Express Corporation
Freedom Airlines, Inc.
Frontier Airlines
GoJet Airlines, LLC
Hawaiian Airlines
Horizon Air Industries, Inc. (dba Horizon Air)
Jazz Air LP
JetBlue Airways Corporation
Mesa Airlines, Inc.
Mesaba Aviation Inc, dba Mesaba Airlines
Omni Air International
Piedmont Airlines
Pinnacle Airlines, Inc.
Polar Air Cargo Worldwide, Inc.
PSA Airlines, Inc.
Republic Airlines
Shuttle America
SkyWest Airlines
Southern Air Inc.
Trans States Airlines
United Airlines
United Parcel Service Co.
US Airways, Inc.
Virgin America, Inc
WestJet, an Alberta Partnership
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
rj777
Posts: 1807
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 1:47 am

RE: New Frontier/Republic Part 27

Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:10 pm

Where's Southwest & AirTran?
 
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Tigerguy
Posts: 566
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 2:28 am

RE: New Frontier/Republic Part 27

Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:04 am

We'll keep the good news wagon rolling here with some hot-off-the-press traffic numbers:

Quote:
Frontier Airlines, a subsidiary of Republic Airways Holdings, today reported preliminary traffic results for September 2011. Frontier's traffic increased 2%, to 1.0 billion revenue passenger miles (RPMs), while capacity was down 2%, at 1.2 billion available seat miles (ASMs). Frontier Airlines served 1.3 million passengers in September, a 5% increase from September 2010. September had a load factor of 86% compared to 83% in the same month last year. It was Frontier's third consecutive record monthly load factor.

Frontier press release: http://www.marketwatch.com/story/fro...-september-2011-traffic-2011-10-05

And, of course, a look at Republic as a whole:

Quote:
Republic Airways Holdings RJET +0.38% , today reported preliminary passenger traffic results for September 2011. The Company generated 1.7 billion revenue passenger miles (RPMs), a 2% decrease from the same month last year, while capacity was down 3% at 2.1 billion available seat miles (ASMs). Block hours were 76,582 in September 2011, a decrease of 4% from September 2010. Consolidated load factor was 80% in September of 2011 versus 79% in the same month last year. Republic Airways carried 2.6 million passengers during the month, a 2% reduction from the same month last year.

Republic press release: http://www.marketwatch.com/story/rep...ic-2011-10-05?reflink=MW_news_stmp

There were some minor comments about the restructuring, but nothing particularly informative. It's obviously a bit too early to see if the efforts are living up to expectations, but if the brief comment in the article is to be believed, then it looks like they're starting off in the right direction. How they do in winter will also see if this plan is generating any early returns. (Sorry, but I had to do it...    )
Good night, and keep watching the skis. Uh, skies.
 
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LAXintl
Posts: 24706
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: New Frontier/Republic Part 27

Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:31 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 84):
Where's Southwest & AirTran?

I don’t know about Airtran, however Southwest several years back stated it would not seek formal IOSA accreditation as the program would have multiple impacts on its K.I.S.S operating philosophy.
The carrier however remains in compliance with ATOS/IOSA recommendation and procedures including streamlining airline operations and regulatory subjects.

Anyhow, Southwest is not a full member of IATA (only BSP member), so IOSA is voluntary in such cases. Plus it does not really operate outside the US, nor fly on behalf of other parties that could likely demand IOSA certification.

At the end of the day it’s weighing the cost of having it versus not.

I worked with an air-carrier about 4-years ago which got certified and in its case it was critical to maintain foreign business relations, and to receive ongoing contract business from 3rd parties. Basically without IOSA they would have lost a good portion of their existing revenue stream.


For Frontier, IOSA simply rounds out the existing certification by Republic Holdings carriers Republic, Chautauqua and Shuttle America.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: New Frontier/Republic Part 27

Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:53 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 84):
You realize being in the IOSA registry is SOP these days.

I would have thought the point is that Frontier - which wasn't - now is.

It may mean no more than that, but it is at least that.

  

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
FL787
Posts: 366
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:18 am

RE: New Frontier/Republic Part 27

Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:05 am

Is MKE-TPA no longer going to operate this winter? I don't see it anymore.
 
smoot4208
Posts: 595
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:39 am

RE: New Frontier/Republic Part 27

Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:07 pm

Quoting FL787 (Reply 89):
Is MKE-TPA no longer going to operate this winter? I don't see it anymore.

That wouldn't surprise me if that didn't start back up this winter.

Does anyone know when we might hear anything on possible service to STS, TOL, SBN, or MDT?

I do know that airlines back proposals all the time. It basically puts another option on the table. However many airlines don't actually AGREE to start service there. F9 may be different as they seem content in taking small subsidies, to ensure a fixed amount of income.

Also for STS, does anyone think that the A318 would be better suited for the shorter runway?
 
bjorn14
Posts: 3595
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:11 pm

RE: New Frontier/Republic Part 27

Thu Oct 06, 2011 6:28 pm

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 90):
Also for STS, does anyone think that the A318 would be better suited for the shorter runway?

Yes definitely but last I heard the 'babies' were going bye bye.
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
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TZTriStar500
Posts: 891
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 1:33 am

RE: New Frontier/Republic Part 27

Fri Oct 07, 2011 12:30 am

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 91):

Yes definitely but last I heard the 'babies' were going bye bye.

Not yet. 805 goes in Sept. 2012, two in the fall of 13 and the last in 2014.
35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
 
freakyrat
Posts: 2045
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:04 pm

RE: New Frontier/Republic Part 27

Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:02 am

SBN has been talking to F9 for a few years now and is probably further along on this. Once all the details are worked out if this comes to fruition Buddy, Clover, Casey, Lucy, Blaze, Stu, Moe & Joe and Ollie should be pulling up to the new terminal Gate A8 or A9 sometime next year.
 
flyinryan99
Posts: 1504
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2001 6:54 am

RE: New Frontier/Republic Part 27

Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:06 pm

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 90):
Does anyone know when we might hear anything on possible service to STS, TOL, SBN, or MDT?

I don't think we'll hear anything from TOL for a while yet. I can't remember the time frame off of the top of my head, but it was something like starting discussions with Frontier at the end of the year and if Frontier was going to play ball it was estimated it could be almost 18 months before service starts (summer of 2013). Of course, the time frame could be sped up or slowed down or Frontier may not even want to do it. I just hope they do it right with morning originator and evening inbound flight to get the mix of business passengers. I would love to see 2x a day on most days...but I doubt F9 will have the resources for that.
 
FRNT787
Posts: 377
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 10:04 am

RE: New Frontier/Republic Part 27

Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:27 pm

Hey folks,

I am doing a project at school, and was wondering if anyone with quick access could give me the number of Frontier branded departures from:

DEN
MKE
MCI
OMA


Would be greatly appreciated.
 
GentFromAlaska
Posts: 2666
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2005 2:21 pm

RE: New Frontier/Republic Part 27

Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:51 pm

Quoting FRNT787 (Reply 95):
the number of Frontier branded departures from:

DEN
MKE
MCI
OMA

This should get you in the ballpark http://www.transtats.bts.gov/Data_Elements.aspx?Data=2 Type in the airline and the origin airport. After the page populates scroll to the bottom. I took a quick look at F9 from OMA The last data report was for June 2011 with 61 domestic departures for the month. Remember to add both the domestic and Intl columns were Inlt flights are in play.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
FutureUScapt
Posts: 161
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2008 9:39 pm

RE: New Frontier/Republic Part 27

Tue Oct 11, 2011 6:38 am

Quoting FL787 (Reply 89):
Is MKE-TPA no longer going to operate this winter? I don't see it anymore.

That is indeed the case. This winter F9 will have operate the following schedule from MKE to Florida: 1x daily to MCO, 4x weekly to FLL and 3x weekly to RSW (FLL and RSW operate on alternating days of the week).
 
User avatar
mke717spotter
Posts: 2157
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 9:32 am

RE: New Frontier/Republic Part 27

Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:11 am

Looks like F9 will have new competition to deal with on MCI-SEA in the form of AS: AS To Announce Two Routes & New City (by wedgetail737 Oct 10 2011 in Civil Aviation)
Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
 
floridaflyboy
Posts: 1604
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 3:26 pm

RE: New Frontier/Republic Part 27

Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:06 pm

Quoting mke717spotter (Reply 98):
Looks like F9 will have new competition to deal with on MCI-SEA in the form of AS: AS To Announce Two Routes & New City (by wedgetail737 Oct 10 2011 in Civil Aviation)

If it hasn't already been mentioned, F9 will also be using the Airbus this winter on this route.
Good goes around!

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