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Airport
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UA's First 787: Odd Rudder Color?

Sun Sep 25, 2011 10:16 pm

I've been a bit behind the times in the aviation world over the last couple of weeks, so I deeply apologize if this has been posted or if the answer is obvious and I missed it. Airline Reporter just posted this photo of UA's first 787...

http://www.airlinereporter.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/7877.jpg

The rudder looks noticably different from their current color scheme (you can see a subtle gradient and a streak of whitish-blue towards the middle, and a bit of white at the bottom), anyone know the reasons for this? Special livery? I highly doubt they'd go for a new livery after all that's been done in the last year, but I could be wrong.

Thanks in advance!

[Edited 2011-09-25 15:16:46]
 
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STT757
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RE: UA's First 787: Odd Rudder Color?

Sun Sep 25, 2011 10:24 pm

Interesting, a special livery would be so cool!
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Viscount724
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RE: UA's First 787: Odd Rudder Color?

Sun Sep 25, 2011 10:26 pm

One other question prompted by the photo. Why are the 787s painted white and when is that done? I didn't think aircraft were normally painted until they were completely assembled. I'm sure I've seen older photos of 787s on the production line that were completely unpainted.

Or is that white paint some kind of protective coating that's removed before the final paintjob is done?
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: UA's First 787: Odd Rudder Color?

Sun Sep 25, 2011 10:42 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 2):
Why are the 787s painted white and when is that done? I didn't think aircraft were normally painted until they were completely assembled. I'm sure I've seen older photos of 787s on the production line that were completely unpainted.

The sub-assemblies are suppose to arrive "pre-stuffed" with wiring, plumbing, and I would presume a coat of primer paint. Early 787 components arrived bare because the subcontractors were behind schedule and shipped parts to final assembly with work still required.
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drerx7
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RE: UA's First 787: Odd Rudder Color?

Sun Sep 25, 2011 10:52 pm

That's just the outline in white of the globe. It doesn't look different to me - but thanks for the photo!
HOUSTON, TEXAS
 
Airport
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RE: UA's First 787: Odd Rudder Color?

Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:14 pm

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 4):
That's just the outline in white of the globe.

If that's the case then the globe on the 787 tail will be significantly different (and extremely inconsistant) in its placement than any other aircraft in the UA/CO livery, and significantly different than the renderings.




I would say that definitely is not the outline of the current globe.

[Edited 2011-09-25 16:15:30]
 
cruiseshipcrew
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RE: UA's First 787: Odd Rudder Color?

Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:26 pm

I think its being looked into too much at this point The plane is still being assembled and that white mark could be anything, even plastic wrap as an example. I do think a special livery would be great though!

James
 
workwings
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RE: UA's First 787: Odd Rudder Color?

Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:28 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 2):
One other question prompted by the photo. Why are the 787s painted white and when is that done? I didn't think aircraft were normally painted until they were completely assembled. I'm sure I've seen older photos of 787s on the production line that were completely unpainted.

Or is that white paint some kind of protective coating that's removed before the final paintjob is done?

Just saw that very aircraft during the tour at Everett on Saturday...what I remember is just as you say, it's not paint but a protective coat that washes off...since it's composite they of course don't put the same kind of (greenish) protection that they use on 777s etc... It wasn't clear why the tails had some livery already. But in general it seems they roll them out (with engines attached but no fuel, so they are towed) to a separate paint hangar.

Btb the first ANA aircraft seemed to have a slightly special livery.
 
cytz_pilot
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RE: UA's First 787: Odd Rudder Color?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:22 am

There's another photo of the aircraft in question on the same site, with the markings missing - what you saw in the photo might have been a reflection.

http://www.airlinereporter.com/wp-co...4650087085_634241_1506232198_o.jpg

What a beauty she'll be though!!! 



[Edited 2011-09-25 17:28:54]
 
Motorhussy
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RE: UA's First 787: Odd Rudder Color?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:36 am

Quoting cytz_pilot (Reply 8):
There's another photo of the aircraft in question on the same site, with the markings missing - what you saw in the photo might have been a reflection.

May be my imagination or the inner conspiracy theorist at work, but looks to me like the blue in that photo has been overlayed in photoshop to obscure the fact that there is a new logo being planned.
come visit the south pacific
 
SonomaFlyer
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RE: UA's First 787: Odd Rudder Color?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:00 am

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 9):
Quoting cytz_pilot (Reply 8):
There's another photo of the aircraft in question on the same site, with the markings missing - what you saw in the photo might have been a reflection.

May be my imagination or the inner conspiracy theorist at work, but looks to me like the blue in that photo has been overlayed in photoshop to obscure the fact that there is a new logo being planned.

I think we need to adjust someone's tinfoil hat   Sure its possible the first 787 will have some kind of special livery to mark UAL getting their a/c (three years late) but doubtful.
 
tpaewr
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RE: UA's First 787: Odd Rudder Color?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:11 am

It would be special if it was painted with CO titles!!   
 
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drerx7
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RE: UA's First 787: Odd Rudder Color?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:18 am

Quoting Airport (Reply 5):

oooooo - thanks for pointing that out, I am completely wrong. I don't think it's any type of special livery though.
HOUSTON, TEXAS
 
SPQR
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RE: UA's First 787: Odd Rudder Color?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:36 am

OT, I like the boardroom in the foreground with the light blue walls for privacy but no roof so the folks eating lunch can sit in on the meeting from the 2nd floor balcony
 
WestWing
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RE: UA's First 787: Odd Rudder Color?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:53 am

Quoting cytz_pilot (Reply 8):
There's another photo of the aircraft in question on the same site,

OT: Abeam of the right wing root in the second photo (linked in reply 8 above) - Is that group doing "Tai Chi" ?
The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
 
Airport
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RE: UA's First 787: Odd Rudder Color?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:58 am

Okay, now I'm definitely leaning on it being a reflection. Here's another photo:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/theboeingcompany/6183303280/

[Edited 2011-09-25 18:59:42]
 
ha763
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RE: UA's First 787: Odd Rudder Color?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:35 am

Quoting Airport (Reply 15):
Okay, now I'm definitely leaning on it being a reflection. Here's another photo:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/theboei...3280/

   on the reflection. Different angle, white streak lower and thicker than in the first picture. I'd say it is the light reflecting off the horizontal stabilizer
 
tdscanuck
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RE: UA's First 787: Odd Rudder Color?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:36 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 2):
Why are the 787s painted white and when is that done?

It happens at the suppliers...bare composite and UV don't get along.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 2):
I didn't think aircraft were normally painted until they were completely assembled.

The livery isn't applied until after assembly (except the rudder), but they always show up with some kind of primer or temporary protective coating.

Quoting workwings (Reply 7):
It wasn't clear why the tails had some livery already.

The rudder has to be very finely balanced...it's simpler to just paint it first and balance it after, rather than run the risk of unbalancing it during painting.

Quoting WestWing (Reply 14):
OT: Abeam of the right wing root in the second photo (linked in reply 8 above) - Is that group doing "Tai Chi" ?

It looks like it's possible, but it's more likely they're doing some pre-shift stretching and warmup...three of those folks are in white cotton tank-entry coveralls, which is a pretty physical job.

Tom.
 
Calibansa333
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RE: UA's First 787: Odd Rudder Color?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:45 am

It's fun to watch this bird come together, looks like she's almost ready to roll off the assembly line? Cool to see her fully assembled (well almost, missing some engines   )! Can't wait to have the chance to fly on one of these things!   
 
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N62NA
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RE: UA's First 787: Odd Rudder Color?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:56 am

Quoting cytz_pilot (Reply 8):

http://www.airlinereporter.com/wp-co...4650087085_634241_1506232198_o.jpg

Perhaps even more intriguing... the photo in the link also shows the "Dreamliner Diner!"
 
HorizonGirl
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RE: UA's First 787: Odd Rudder Color?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:49 am

Definitely looks like a reflection to me, you can see the way it changes in the light between photos.
It's so exciting to see this beautiful aircraft beginning take on its final form! 


Devon
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ual747den
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RE: UA's First 787: Odd Rudder Color?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:46 am

I'm not sure what information is available at this point so I'm going to have to be careful here.

Just thinking about the situation I would imagine that UA would do something special. Maybe not something huge since they are in the middle of some major branding changes but it would not be that out of line to see something special on the first 787......
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UAL777UK
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RE: UA's First 787: Odd Rudder Color?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:25 am

Quoting UAL747DEN (Reply 21):
UA would do something special. Maybe not something huge since they are in the middle of some major branding changes but it would not be that out of line to see something special on the first 787......

I really hope they do, first North American airline to get the 787, just like ANA at least a bold large 787 should go on the side. I remember when UA was first with the 777 they made a heck of lot of noises about that, I hope Smisek does similar.
 
qf002
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RE: UA's First 787: Odd Rudder Color?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:36 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 2):
Why are the 787s painted white and when is that done?
Quoting UAL747DEN (Reply 21):
Just thinking about the situation I would imagine that UA would do something special. Maybe not something huge since they are in the middle of some major branding changes but it would not be that out of line to see something special on the first 787......
Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 22):
I really hope they do, first North American airline to get the 787, just like ANA at least a bold large 787 should go on the side. I remember when UA was first with the 777 they made a heck of lot of noises about that, I hope Smisek does similar.

Even if they do, it wouldn't be making it's way onto the aircraft rudder at this stage. If they do anything it will be an additional paint shop job in the week before launch.
 
workwings
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RE: UA's First 787: Odd Rudder Color?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:14 am

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 17):
The rudder has to be very finely balanced...it's simpler to just paint it first and balance it after, rather than run the risk of unbalancing it during painting.

Thanks tdscanuck! This now makes sense.

It looks as if they will still need to paint the logo in the paint shop, but maybe that is less risky in terms of unbalancing?
 
tdscanuck
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RE: UA's First 787: Odd Rudder Color?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:21 pm

Quoting workwings (Reply 24):
It looks as if they will still need to paint the logo in the paint shop, but maybe that is less risky in terms of unbalancing?

Logos like that are often decals...very predictable weight placement.

Tom.
 
cytz_pilot
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RE: UA's First 787: Odd Rudder Color?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:26 pm

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 9):
May be my imagination or the inner conspiracy theorist at work, but looks to me like the blue in that photo has been overlayed in photoshop to obscure the fact that there is a new logo being planned.

I really wondered about that too, how the blue on the rudder seems so unbelievably saturated. But remember that most interior light has a yellowish tint. To correct in a photograph, you balance the color into the blue spectrum...making existing blues look almost unreal! Check out the other blue items in the background...they look the same way.
 
airlinereporter
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RE: UA's First 787: Odd Rudder Color?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:54 pm

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 9):
May be my imagination or the inner conspiracy theorist at work, but looks to me like the blue in that photo has been overlayed in photoshop to obscure the fact that there is a new logo being planned.

I can promise you there was no editing -- I took the photo, pulled it off my SD card, just re-sized and uploaded it while still in the factory  .

Here are two more photos from the floor showing it is just a plain blue tail. The blue did seem a bit brighter, but that could be from all the lighting in the factory too.

http://www.airlinereporter.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/UAL1.jpg

and

http://www.airlinereporter.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/UAL2-1.jpg

I think with UAL doing so much with getting folks to know (and like) their new (old) livery, they are probably not going to do a special livery for the 787. I hope that I am wrong.

David
 
gigneil
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RE: UA's First 787: Odd Rudder Color?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:57 pm

Launching a new logo in the middle of repainting hundreds of planes would have to top the stupidest things they've done so far list.

NS
 
BC77008
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RE: UA's First 787: Odd Rudder Color?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:32 pm

Quoting gigneil (Reply 28):
Launching a new logo in the middle of repainting hundreds of planes would have to top the stupidest things they've done so far list.

NS

Agreed!!

I have rain in Texas for sale to anyone that thinks that this is what is happening. ORD IAH EWR have all been rebranded. (i think SFO too but not sure) Almost 90% of CO's mainline fleet and just over 30% of UA's mainline fleet are in the "new" livery. I think it is safe to say that the "new" look going forward will be around for at least the next 10 years. There is a lot of money that goes into branding and building an image in the minds of your audience. And like any airline that does a rebranding or livery change, 1/2 of us will like it, 1/2 of us will hate it, and 10,000 of us will post modified airplane photos on how it could have been done better.
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