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mcdu
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RE: Southwest Kicks Women Off For Kissing.

Tue Sep 27, 2011 3:46 pm

Now in the USA Today
http://content.usatoday.com/communit...-southwest-for-excessive-kissing/1

Not sure Southwest can have it both ways. They say it is the passengers around them that were offended. So WN doesn't make decisions about who is on the airplane and what behavior is improper? Sure hope a Mullah in garb is kicked off because Mom and Pop don't want Timmy to see anyone dressed differently on their way to Epcot (there is some great irony there!) The line of what is allowed and not allowed on WN appears to be a wavering and subjective to the religious and political views of the crew that is operating that particular segment.

Seems the WN crew are taking the NFL referee idea to level never intended. Perhaps the F/A could have thrown a yellow flag and cited the couple for "illegal contact". But of course their bags did fly free so I am sure they don't mind being thrown off the plane. ;-(
 
Curiousflyer
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RE: Southwest Kicks Women Off For Kissing.

Tue Sep 27, 2011 4:07 pm

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 46):
Southwest seems to have a knack for kicking off its flights just the right people who have the audience to make sure their complaint is heard loud and clear by the general public. I can't help but draw one of two conclusions:
a) Southwest is kicking a lot of Joe Schmuck off its flights every week for traveling with the wrong clothes, books, attitude or partner. We just never hear about them;
b) Southwest's sent their marketing director to the Michael O'Leary school of free publicity.

Yup they seem to be aiming their strategy at the Fox crowd... The more I hear about these stunts the more worried I get about them. I never flew them, I am afraid they will still not be an option for me.
 
gigneil
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RE: Southwest Kicks Women Off For Kissing.

Tue Sep 27, 2011 4:14 pm

Quoting mcdu (Reply 50):
They say it is the passengers around them that were offended.

The thing is this: I do not care, even in the slightest, who is offended by my homosexual behavior. I would never make out with someone on an airplane, but I would certainly give them a kiss.

This is America, after all. Isn't it?

NS
 
jreuschl
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RE: Southwest Kicks Women Off For Kissing.

Tue Sep 27, 2011 4:22 pm

Considering Southwest has their own website specifically for gays I'm not sure we can give them a general bad name for this incident.

www.southwest.com/gaytravel
 
VC10er
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RE: Southwest Kicks Women Off For Kissing.

Tue Sep 27, 2011 4:22 pm

I naturally didn't see the kiss. If it was really a over-the-top making out session between anyone: male and female, female and female, male and male, drag queen and Rick Santorum I personally would find it too much. But, I wouldn't complain. If they were teenagers, then it would seem natural. But if was an endearing kiss, more than a peck, I would find it sweet, especially if was a gesture of love for one another.

We haven't had a "Gay Kiss-in" for a long time. Perhaps one on Southwest or maybe all airlines on a given day would be a good idea. We used to do shopping malls back in the 1980's. After the initial shock, then a gay kiss becomes old news. I bet this will get a lot of attention with GLAAD or ACLU.

Let's see if it's on CNN tonight.
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1stfl94
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RE: Southwest Kicks Women Off For Kissing.

Tue Sep 27, 2011 5:23 pm

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 37):
Quoting AustrianZRH (Reply 36):
That is very true. However, my safety has never been in peril from a snogging lesbian couple...

Well if they don't comply with the FA's request now what makes you so sure they will in an emergency that may affect your safety.

How can you compare being asked to stop a bit of affection/eating each other's faces (depending on what actually happened on the flight) with being say being asked to assist with an evacuation. Most travellers have the common sense to know which requests are the ones the matter.

There seems to be a trend within Southwest for staff making up their own rules, maybe they need to retrain staff in some basic common sense.
 
Type-Rated
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RE: Southwest Kicks Women Off For Kissing.

Tue Sep 27, 2011 5:30 pm

Quoting skygirl1990 (Reply 6):
When are people going to learn? Upsetting lesbians is NEVER a good idea! Hell hath no fury like an upset lesbian

Very true. If you do there will be consequences that will make you most unhappy.

I agree with everyone else. If it was a quick peck on the cheek I wouldn't see a problem with that. But if it was some kind of escalating foreplay, I'd say get a room. Even when straight people do this in public it's offensive. The standard should be the same for both straights and gays.
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Revelation
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RE: Southwest Kicks Women Off For Kissing.

Tue Sep 27, 2011 5:52 pm

Quoting CuriousFlyer (Reply 51):
The more I hear about these stunts the more worried I get about them. I never flew them, I am afraid they will still not be an option for me.

Even if these "stunts" happen once a week (which I personally doubt), they're a tiny fraction of a percent of the tens of thousands of flights that WN offer each week. WN is the largest domestic airline in the US. If it truly were homophobic, we'd be hearing a lot more reports than we now do.
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EA CO AS
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RE: Southwest Kicks Women Off For Kissing.

Tue Sep 27, 2011 6:28 pm

No one gets it. This was merely a test of WN's new brand of IFE.  
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tothestars
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RE: Southwest Kicks Women Off For Kissing.

Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:26 pm

Passengers will complain about anything...At my former airline TW, we used to show music videos while boarding. One of the videos was "Rain" by Madonna, which is a beautiful and very tame video. A gentleman came up to the first class galley to tell me very loudly that we needed to turn if off because he didnt want his family being exposed to "that w#0+e." I cant remember how I responded but I think I may have stiffled a laugh which was not appropriate...but I just kept thinking, Mister your kids are going to be far more damaged from living with you than they will by watching this video.

[Edited 2011-09-27 12:28:20]
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BC77008
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RE: Southwest Kicks Women Off For Kissing.

Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:43 pm

Quoting tothestars (Reply 59):
Passengers will complain about anything...At my former airline TW, we used to show music videos while boarding. One of the videos was "Rain" by Madonna, which is a beautiful and very tame video. A gentleman came up to the first class galley to tell me very loudly that we needed to turn if off because he didnt want his family being exposed to "that w#0+e." I cant remember how I responded but I think I may have stiffled a laugh which was not appropriate...but I just kept thinking, Mister your kids are going to be far more damaged from living with you than they will by watching this video.

I love Madonna!! If I was on your flight I would have insisted on a nonstop Madonna music video marathon or else I would throw a huge hissy fit!
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mcdu
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RE: Southwest Kicks Women Off For Kissing.

Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:48 pm

Quoting jreuschl (Reply 53):
Considering Southwest has their own website specifically for gays I'm not sure we can give them a general bad name for this incident.

The website is a PR operation. I believe the actions of the company and the employees it has should be the judgement versus a website. The website is of no value if they are not willing to follow through.
 
GQfluffy
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RE: Southwest Kicks Women Off For Kissing.

Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:03 pm

Was it a simple kiss or were they making out? Was it a simple kiss then they overheard someone say something so then they made out?
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Rdh3e
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RE: Southwest Kicks Women Off For Kissing.

Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:04 pm

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 21):
It's 2011, large North American corporations don't have racist or homophobic company policies.

So I don't know if you would consider Chik-fil-a a large corporation, but they do donate significant sums of money to Anti-Gay rights campaigns. It still does happen, just not to such a degree as it used to.
 
gigneil
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RE: Southwest Kicks Women Off For Kissing.

Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:08 pm

They do not only donate large sums of money, but they operate several hate organizations directly.

They are a private company however.

NS
 
tothestars
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RE: Southwest Kicks Women Off For Kissing.

Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:09 pm

[quote=rdh3e,reply=63][/quote

I dont go to Chik-fil-a and havent been in a Target Store in over a year and I used to spend tons of money there...They lost a big chunk of my disposable income....Southwest better do some sensitivity training and hope for the best...cause the gays do like to travel.


http://movies.yahoo.com/news/l-words...st-airlines-actions-161001338.html

[Edited 2011-09-27 13:29:14]
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PSA53
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RE: Southwest Kicks Women Off For Kissing.

Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:37 pm

Quoting netjetsintl (Reply 7):
Southwest is sure making the rounds, last month they kicked off the lead singer of Green-Day for "baggy pants" on a flight to Los Angeles. He ran to a computer and twited the event.

It was low pants.Not baggy pants.

Quoting rolfen (Reply 24):
When Southwest tries to have and enforce their own definition of what is morally acceptable in public places

No it's not! It's applying a general public dress and conduct code and trying to remain neutral at the same time.

Quoting richcandy (Reply 27):

Does it not all sort of depend on the sort of kiss?

Exactly! And both TV and radio is not saying.Media might be protecting their celebrity.Did a lewd sucking tongue kiss or normal polite kissing .But I can't help to think why is WN being targeted.If the kiss was lewd,which was seen by other passengers,then I'm very suspect that this "star" was provoking an incident for publicity for her show or a political statement.And media loves this stuff because it's they're political base.
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CX747
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RE: Southwest Kicks Women Off For Kissing.

Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:58 pm

Let's take a step back here. Do you really think that this women and her friend were removed from a flight for just kissing? I highly doubt that is the case. There is kissing and then there is making out and moving up the scale from there. When you are in public, you do NOT get to do whatever you want, WHENEVER you want. These two didn't share a quick kiss and get thrown off a flight. Any couple going beyond a few light kisses on an AIRPLANE in front of everyone else is more than likely going to get talked to at one point or another. Failure to obey the FA in this day in age is going to get you a law enforcement greeting upon arrival at the gate.

Let's be honest, in order to get removed from a flight, you have to do some really stupid stuff. I recently flew EWR-LAS on Continental and trust me, there was plenty of stupid behavior but nobody was removed.
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GuitrThree
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RE: Southwest Kicks Women Off For Kissing.

Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:01 pm

Quoting netjetsintl (Reply 7):
Southwest is sure making the rounds, last month they kicked off the lead singer of Green-Day for "baggy pants" on a flight to Los Angeles. He ran to a computer and twited the event.

Really? Wow. You know, I don't care who it is, Green-Day or Elvis, I could care less. If you think a celebrity "running to a computer to tweet" is a command for you or anyone else to stop flying based on his or her experience, and not yours, then that's your problem. Sounds like to me only a bunch of sheep would care -or- those who ran around re-tweeting "OMG OMG OMG OMG- SWA just kicked Billy Joe Armstrong off a plane!"

I for one could care less about any celebrity problem, including a high profile lesbian who self admits that she started arguing. I could care less if it was the Pope. If you're asked to do something on a jet and you don't, argue and get kicked off don't come crying to me. And I for one will go out of my way to fly such an airline just to piss these "crybaby think they are better than everyone else people" off.

Oh, and pull your damn pants up before going in public. You look like an utter fool walking around holding your pants all day. Tweet that my Green-Day friends...
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flyorski
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RE: Southwest Kicks Women Off For Kissing.

Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:16 pm

Quoting YVRFlyer (Reply 35):
I wouldn't be surprised if this turned out to be some clever viral marketing strategy, so a WN competitor can grab more of the lucrative LGBT market, by encouraging the LGBT community to mentally-associate WN with intolerance. Rather than run some negative ad saying, "hey, gay people: don't fly with the rubes, fly with us instead!", this is even more effective. Maybe later on the actress will get a lucrative endorsement deal with another airline.
Just my 2 cents.

  

That has to be about the craziest conspiracy theory I have ever heard!
"None are more hopelessly enslaved, than those who falsly believe they are free" -Goethe
 
Grid
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RE: Southwest Kicks Women Off For Kissing.

Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:17 pm

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 68):
I for one could care less about any celebrity problem,
Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 68):
Really? Wow. You know, I don't care who it is, Green-Day or Elvis, I could care less
Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 68):
I could care less if it was the Pope

OK, so you do care then, because you could, you know, care less. So can you quantify how much you care?

Quoting CX747 (Reply 67):
Let's be honest, in order to get removed from a flight, you have to do some really stupid stuff. I recently flew EWR-LAS on Continental and trust me, there was plenty of stupid behavior but nobody was removed.

You mean like being of dark skin and making frequent, long trips to the lavatory? Or do you mean doing something even stupider than that like being of dark skin and sitting between two people who are making frequent, long trips to the lavatory?
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Rdh3e
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RE: Southwest Kicks Women Off For Kissing.

Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:21 pm

Quoting Grid (Reply 70):
You mean like being of dark skin and making frequent, long trips to the lavatory? Or do you mean doing something even stupider than that like being of dark skin and sitting between two people who are making frequent, long trips to the lavatory?

I think he's more refering to getting drunk and trying to open the door in flight... If I'm correct, the reference you're making, the guy didn't actually get taken off the flight. Also, let's not forget about the guy who got talked to by the cops for reading an airplane book onboard!
 
Grid
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RE: Southwest Kicks Women Off For Kissing.

Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:24 pm

Quoting rdh3e (Reply 71):
f I'm correct, the reference you're making, the guy didn't actually get taken off the fligh

No, three people were removed, one of whom was a woman who was merely seated between two guys who were the cause for the removal.
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GuitrThree
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RE: Southwest Kicks Women Off For Kissing.

Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:32 pm

Quoting Grid (Reply 70):
OK, so you do care then, because you could, you know, care less. So can you quantify how much you care?

Well, now that you ask....... I might have to give my opinion on the matter.

  
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Rdh3e
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RE: Southwest Kicks Women Off For Kissing.

Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:36 pm

Quoting Grid (Reply 72):
No, three people were removed, one of whom was a woman who was merely seated between two guys who were the cause for the removal.

I was thinking of the incident where 3 people travelling together, I believe a man and his mom and sister or something similar were accused by a fellow pax of suspicious behaviour because the ladies each used the restroom and he got up to grab his laptop. Some people think everything is suspicious I suppose.
 
csavel
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RE: Southwest Kicks Women Off For Kissing.

Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:48 pm

Quoting risingsunfitnes (Reply 20):
I think the point here, is people need to understand what is appropriate in the general public. Want to show affection ? whether you're gay, lesbian or straight. Fine.... But remember, a plane is a public environment, and as such, you don't threaten people around you, you don't pee against the windows, and you don't display, (lets call it excessive) acts of affection... thats what rooms are for....
Quoting CX747 (Reply 67):
These two didn't share a quick kiss and get thrown off a flight.

Well how do we know that? Was anyone on this thread there? Do we have the video of the two ladies smooching? (if so, it is probably in the Interwebs now, nudge, nudge, wink, wink.) It could very well turn out to be true, or it could very well turn out to be, as someone suggested upthread, an uptight schoolmarm who is freaked out about ANY PDA by ANY gay person no matter how G-rated and complained to the F/A - who probably thought she had to do something.

I am waiting for more info.
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CX747
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RE: Southwest Kicks Women Off For Kissing.

Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:49 pm

My initial post on this topic dealt with drunken behavior and not anyone's skin color. There is a difference between stupid behavior and suspicious behavior. Both need to be dealt with regardless of one's skin type or sexual preference. It's this simple, the rules changed on 9/11/01 ESPECIALLY on American carriers.


The following is a rant that I just need to get out!

What truly amazes me at this point in time, is people's behavior on board commercial aircraft. First off, does anyone actually realize they are in public? I'm not always sure because people show up in pajamas. Exactly when did that become acceptable attire? Add to that the fact that flip flops and going barefoot down the main cabin walkway now seems the thing to do. Barefoot...Barefoot in an airplane just blows my mind. This isn't your personal car so, I'm sorry but keep your SHOES on. Nobody wants to see your feet, smell your feet and gosh darn it, do you think the carpets in that 737 or A320 are clean enough to walk on? Let's not even get started about how your feet will do in flip flops should you need to evacuate a stricken aircraft.

Let's also not forget the gigantic carry on luggage that is crammed three ways to Sunday in the overhead bins. I always shake my head when I see someone's carry on that is larger than my checked luggage underneath. I hate paying an additional $25 per bag but can we all be adults and realize what the actual size of the bins are?
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wdleiser
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RE: Southwest Kicks Women Off For Kissing.

Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:32 pm

Scenario most likely went like this:

1. Couple are making out or keep kissing over and over again.
2. Passenger(s) complain.
3. FA asks couple to stop
4. B level celebrity goes "excuse you how dare you tell me what to do"
5. FA says, it is making some passengers uncomfortable, just stop
6. Couple goes "this is discrimination how dare you, we know our rights, it is because we are a gay couple rabble rabble, you cannot tell us what to do, this is a free country"
7. FA has enough of this as she deals with this stuff all the time and gets them off the plane and avoids an even worse headache.


Had this been a straight couple kicked off, this would have been a non issue and not made the news.

I applaud Southwest for kicking the Greenday singer off. Pull up your pants that is all and don't get in a dick measuring contest with the flight attendant, you will lose. The sense of entitlement from some celebrities is a joke.

Had this lesbian couple been kicked after being told to stop holding hands then it would have been a totally different issue. Clearly this was not just a single peck on the lips or the cheak.
 
AirCalSNA
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RE: Southwest Kicks Women Off For Kissing.

Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:34 pm

Quoting CX747 (Reply 67):
Let's take a step back here. Do you really think that this women and her friend were removed from a flight for just kissing? I highly doubt that is the case. There is kissing and then there is making out and moving up the scale from there. When you are in public, you do NOT get to do whatever you want, WHENEVER you want. These two didn't share a quick kiss and get thrown off a flight. Any couple going beyond a few light kisses on an AIRPLANE in front of everyone else is more than likely going to get talked to at one point or another. Failure to obey the FA in this day in age is going to get you a law enforcement greeting upon arrival at the gate.

Let's be honest, in order to get removed from a flight, you have to do some really stupid stuff. I recently flew EWR-LAS on Continental and trust me, there was plenty of stupid behavior but nobody was removed.

I agree that there must have been something more than a quick peck. But even if there wasn't, I'm sure the participants understood that two women kissing in public might get other people upset, especially in St. Louis. If you don't like the heat, stay out of the kitchen. On the bright side, this is probably a lot more attention that she's had in a long time.
 
GoDIA
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RE: Southwest Kicks Women Off For Kissing.

Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:49 pm

I don't like to watch ANYONE---gay or straight---kissing passionately on a flight. It's a public place and that behavior is inappropriate in a public setting. Simple. End of story. This assumes that the lesbian couple was kissing passionately, which we do not know for certain. But a friend of mine was on a flight a lot of years ago (pre-9/11) and a young heterosexual couple was making out (loudly, unfortunately) in the front of the cabin...he said someone asked them to stop (the FA didn't, BTW) and the guy stood up and screamed at everyone to "mind your own f***ing business." Only THEN was he was confronted by a crew member. I don't believe they were kicked off the flight.

Unfortunately, many people (and gays in particular) are so anxious to "push the envelope" and shock or p*** off the rest of the population that when they are told to tone it down, they explode and scream discrimination. Most people, frankly, are offended by overtly passionate behavior in public. Everyone should be respectful of others and follow the norms of public behavior...like don't stay in the movie theater when your baby is screaming, keep your snotty kid from kicking the seat of the guy in front, don't yap loudly on your cell phone in public,and wait until you're in private to make out with your spouse. Too bad the folks who scream the most about "tolerance" are frankly the least tolerant of other peoples' opinions.
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YVRFlyer
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RE: Southwest Kicks Women Off For Kissing.

Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:52 pm

Quoting flyorski (Reply 69):
  
  

That has to be about the craziest conspiracy theory I have ever heard!

Crazy yes, but as the physicists ask, is it crazy enough to be true? With the social media becoming a major marketing venue, stealth campaigns and innuendo can be even more effective and cheaper than traditional advertising.
YVRFlyer
 
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fxramper
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RE: Southwest Kicks Women Off For Kissing.

Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:55 pm

Quoting wdleiser (Reply 77):
1. Couple are making out or keep kissing over and over again.

So f/a have been looking the other way for decades about 'the mile high club' and one couple kisses and it's game over?
 
csavel
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RE: Southwest Kicks Women Off For Kissing.

Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:57 pm

Quoting wdleiser (Reply 77):
Clearly this was not just a single peck on the lips or the cheak.

Again, I want to know how people are so sure that clearly this was not a peck on the cheek. I am not saying you are wrong, but I could also see a peck on the cheek or a kiss or running fingers through hair, the G-rated stuff that married people do all the time, freak out some "defender of morality" who probably hasn't got much of anything in the love dept gay or straight, and decides to complain.

Now my assertion could be BS, but none of us really can say what happened or say that there is more to the story w/o corroboration from someone who was there.

(Well actually we can, it is Airlines.net after all!, but well, our assertion would be baseless w/o corroboration.)
I may be ugly. I may be an American. But don't call me an ugly American.
 
ghifty
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RE: Southwest Kicks Women Off For Kissing.

Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:59 pm

They were just showing some LUV, really SW?

On another (more serious) note.. I feel like this is being over-blown just because of the LGBT-pride thing. If I had a girl-friend and I was obscenely making out with her (as a straight couple) on a flight, I'd do so acknowledging that it's not appropriate for a public place.. and likely get kicked out.
Fly Delta (Wid)Jets

Comments made here reflect only my personal opinions.
 
Grid
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RE: Southwest Kicks Women Off For Kissing.

Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:03 am

Quoting goDIA (Reply 79):
I don't like to watch ANYONE---gay or straight---kissing passionately on a flight. It's a public place and that behavior is inappropriate in a public setting. Simple. End of story

I like to see it. I like to see it a lot. So if you complain about the smooching, and then I say, no, let them continue, it's awesome, and we are the only people speaking out, what happens?

Quoting wdleiser (Reply 77):
Scenario most likely went like this:

1. Couple are making out or keep kissing over and over again.
2. Passenger(s) complain.
3. FA asks couple to stop
4. B level celebrity goes "excuse you how dare you tell me what to do"
5. FA says, it is making some passengers uncomfortable, just stop
6. Couple goes "this is discrimination how dare you, we know our rights, it is because we are a gay couple rabble rabble, you cannot tell us what to do, this is a free country"
7. FA has enough of this as she deals with this stuff all the time and gets them off the plane and avoids an even worse headache.

Yes that is probably exactly what happened because that is how you needed it to happen in order to construct your answer.

Quoting wdleiser (Reply 77):
7. FA has enough of this as she deals with this stuff all the time and gets them off the plane and avoids an even worse headache.

Deals with it what all the time? Kissing on planes?
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ltbewr
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RE: Southwest Kicks Women Off For Kissing.

Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:43 am

Situations like this on aircraft to me have several factors that cause attention:

1) Actual behavior that is unacceptable to almost anybody and requires appropriate discipline. We are seeing much more of this for a variety of reasons, mainly that just idiots, selfish and deliberately like to make a scene (with these women involved in entertainment) for attention.

2) Behavior that is unacceptable to certain people due to their particular religious or cultural beliefs. 2 of the same gender kissing each other or showing PDA's perhaps not the best to do in a semi-private space where some narrow minded persons may be around.

3) Many more who do find some act unacceptale speaking out or asking the f/a's to do something. In turn, f/a's fear for their jobs by pax complaints made if they don't take action on those doing the objectionable acts.

4) A lot more people who are more willing to ignore any authority or even to be verbally or psychically violent when facing authorities like f/a's doing their job.

5) 'Zero tolerance' of any disobedience of a F/A, often backed up by the airlines or workers unions where applicable.

6) Our personal electronics revolution which means we can record anything, say anything without filters or any balance and in seconds to minutes after it occurs to get it out to the public and media.
 
wdleiser
Posts: 865
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:32 am

RE: Southwest Kicks Women Off For Kissing.

Wed Sep 28, 2011 1:05 am

Quoting Grid (Reply 84):

Deals with it what all the time? Kissing on planes?

No, Passengers claiming they know their rights, causing a scene after being asked to do something from the crew. Such a thing could be done by an obnoxious drunk person who won't settle down.

The couple wasn't kicked off for kissing, they were kicked off for arguing with the crew.

Quoting fxramper (Reply 81):

That was a cute response:
1. With the bathroom door shut, people entering the mile high club would not be in few of others.
2. Somewhere written down it is an FAA rule forbidding more than 1 person in a lav at a time.
- certain situations may be allowed such as helping a child and/or one that is handicapped.
3. Now lets look at Southwest and their response to a mile high extravaganza
http://www.kltv.com/story/5680118/co...ienttype=printable&redirected=true
-----------------NOW what did they get charged with? Not Kissing in public, not fucking on a plane, buttttt interfering with flight crew AKA not obeying an order.

4. As we can see, masturbating on an airplane is shunned upon http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0...pearce-united-airlin_n_866407.html

5. Even flight attendants get in trouble for sex in the loo http://www.news.com.au/top-stories/h...claim/story-e6frfkp9-1111112975617
 
VC10er
Posts: 4288
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:25 am

RE: Southwest Kicks Women Off For Kissing.

Wed Sep 28, 2011 6:05 am

I do know a gay couple who successfully joined the mile high club on UA I believe some years ago. Somehow they had believed thet eluded the FA's watchful eyes entering the lav. Then they each exited the lav separately. Upon returning to their seats they discovered a bottle of Champagne wrapped in a white table cloth with a note from the crew that said "congratulations for entering the mile-high club"

So, I guess not all FA's frown upon fooling around up there!
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
Grid
Posts: 253
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:26 am

RE: Southwest Kicks Women Off For Kissing.

Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:43 am

Quoting VC10er (Reply 87):
I do know a gay couple who successfully joined the mile high club on UA I believe some years ago. Somehow they had believed thet eluded the FA's watchful eyes entering the lav. Then they each exited the lav separately. Upon returning to their seats they discovered a bottle of Champagne wrapped in a white table cloth with a note from the crew that said "congratulations for entering the mile-high club"

So, I guess not all FA's frown upon fooling around up there!

Sounds like an urban legend.

Quoting wdleiser (Reply 86):
No, Passengers claiming they know their rights, causing a scene after being asked to do something from the crew. Such a thing could be done by an obnoxious drunk person who won't settle down.

The couple wasn't kicked off for kissing, they were kicked off for arguing with the crew.

It really sounds like the reason was that they were kicked off for kissing and the arguing was pretense. See something that you don't like? Tell that person to stop and bludgeon them with the rule that they must obey a flight attendant. If they don't comply, and assert they are not doing anything wrong or illegal or even bothersome, viola, you have your reason to remove them. Power corrupts - no one is immune.
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2175301
Posts: 1988
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 11:19 am

RE: Southwest Kicks Women Off For Kissing.

Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:16 pm

The problem I have is that in most of the SW cases none of the activity was illegal.

If I am dressed legally - no one objects while I enter the airport and pass through security - and then get told by some anyone (including FAs) my reaction is going to be along the line of mind your own business. Which the other person may consider rude... and now the FAs can now claim that I am not being cooperative and kick me off the flght.

The situation never would have occurred if the FA had not instigated the "situation" in the first place. Its a no loose for the FAs - they can instigate a situation and then claim legal backing by the response.

Somewhere I'm waiting for the lawsuit that sets the standard that people do not have to comply with unreasonable request by a FA or crew - and that holds the person who made such unreasonable request responsible.

As much as I may not like how someone is dressed - or acting. dressing, kissing, etc is not really a flight safety issue.

If someone complains to a FA because of personal preferences (vs legal standards) - then why does the FAs not ignore the complaint.

Its great to say that their are terms and conditions - but terms and conditions have to also be interpreted and enforced reasonably. There have been too many similar cases on SW - I think "nannyism" and FAs butting and creating situations where they can now exercise their "authority" is apparent. Remember - who watches the watchers. Same principle.

Have a great day,
 
Grid
Posts: 253
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:26 am

RE: Southwest Kicks Women Off For Kissing.

Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:46 pm

Quoting 2175301 (Reply 89):
Somewhere I'm waiting for the lawsuit that sets the standard that people do not have to comply with unreasonable request by a FA or crew - and that holds the person who made such unreasonable request responsible.

As much as I may not like how someone is dressed - or acting. dressing, kissing, etc is not really a flight safety issue.

If someone complains to a FA because of personal preferences (vs legal standards) - then why does the FAs not ignore the complaint.

Most of these plaintiffs don't appear sympathetic - if they quietly refused an order to pull up their pants or stop kissing, rather than getting rude and then presented their complaint to the public, they would have a better chance at winning, either in public debate or court.
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User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 25224
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

RE: Southwest Kicks Women Off For Kissing.

Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:59 pm

Quoting 2175301 (Reply 89):
The problem I have is that in most of the SW cases none of the activity was illegal.

Actually not - pretty much anything that causes a disturbance on an airplane is illegal.

The couple involved were asked to cool it, and instead of just doing so, they got upset, and were asked to leave.

Bottom line: you have less rights on an airplane than you do elsewhere, like let's say a restaurant but even still, a lot of these same behaviors (sloppy dress, inappropriate behaviour) might result in you being asked to leave a restaurant too, and they'd be in their rights as a private business to do so.

Quoting 2175301 (Reply 89):
As much as I may not like how someone is dressed - or acting. dressing, kissing, etc is not really a flight safety issue.

And it isn't at a restaurant either, yet you can be asked to leave, and if you refuse, you can be arrested for trespassing. Happens every day of every week all around the world.

Quoting 2175301 (Reply 89):
There have been too many similar cases on SW

Come now. They run 3400 flights a day, so they have a much larger odds of something happening then let's say Virgin America.

Note also that those 3400 flights are staffed by human beings, so not every passenger is going to have a perfect experience every time.

But just like the restaurant case, feel free to not use their services.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
Grid
Posts: 253
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:26 am

RE: Southwest Kicks Women Off For Kissing.

Wed Sep 28, 2011 1:41 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 91):

Actually not - pretty much anything that causes a disturbance on an airplane is illegal.

The couple involved were asked to cool it, and instead of just doing so, they got upset, and were asked to leave.

I think the problem is that it wasn't really a disturbance until someone complained and then it escalated and became a disturbance. No clear guidelines exist for what constitutes a disturbance and it's up to the discretion of a flight attendant.
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Curiousflyer
Posts: 587
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 3:19 am

RE: Southwest Kicks Women Off For Kissing.

Wed Sep 28, 2011 1:49 pm

Quoting Grid (Reply 88):
Sounds like an urban legend.

Let's call it an urban legend. As long as passengers were not bothered I say go UA!

They could also have provided a few single use packs of Purell with or instead of champagne.

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