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fxramper
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Charging A Premium For A 787 Ticket.

Wed Sep 28, 2011 1:25 am

I'm watching the CNBC special (rerun?) on the 787 and it doesn't look like a normal airplane. There are all sorts of bells and whistles Boeing is offering airlines to make the flying experience more desirable. Windows are 65% larger, they want to pump more oxygen into the cabin and have less dry air recirculate. I'm sure all the 787 junkies are aware of everything it will be.

Will airlines charge a premium on tickets they fly the 787? I can totally see UA doing this in the US. Just my   .
 
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jetfuel
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RE: Charging A Premium For A 787 Ticket.

Wed Sep 28, 2011 1:51 am

When is the ANA first revenue flight? I just heard a rumour that the plane may not be ready? Anybody know for sure?
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notaxonrotax
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RE: Charging A Premium For A 787 Ticket.

Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:14 am

The whole idea is that the lower fuel-bill compensates for all those thrills………..
I think there will be no prize-difference at all, the idea is offering this "all singing, all dancing"-jet for the same prize as the competition who fly with "ancient metal" like B777, A330 etc etc.

Does my business-model make sense????

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tdscanuck
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RE: Charging A Premium For A 787 Ticket.

Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:55 am

Quoting fxramper (Thread starter):
Will airlines charge a premium on tickets they fly the 787?

If they can, it will be a *huge* coup for Boeing...very few airliners in the modern age have been able to command a premium based on the airframe (A380 and Concorde are the only ones I can think).

Quoting jetfuel (Reply 1):
When is the ANA first revenue flight? I just heard a rumour that the plane may not be ready?

News to me...they just flew the first one home today and they're supposed to start some time next month, I think.

Quoting notaxonrotax (Reply 2):
think there will be no prize-difference at all,
the idea is offering this "all singing, all dancing"-jet for the same prize as the competition who fly with "ancient metal" like B777, A330 etc etc.

Does my business-model make sense????

Yes...the idea was that, for equal ticket price, the airlines could offer a better experience because their costs are lower. Of course, the airlines can turn that around and charge less and still get the same profit (use the airframe to under cut the competition) or, if the passenger experience pans out, actually charge a little more and make way more profit...the holy grail of airframe branding.

Tom.
 
qf002
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RE: Charging A Premium For A 787 Ticket.

Wed Sep 28, 2011 3:31 am

I really doubt it. This aircraft doesn't have the wow factor (simply being size) that the A380 was able to use to attract higher fares. The routes that this aircraft is likely to compete with other airlines on are full of modern A330s and 777s, whereas the A380 was a big jump in comfort from the 747s that populated the routes that they now fly.

It's also important to bear in mind that many 787 routes initially will be simgle-carrier routes (ie NRT-BOS will be a JL monopoly, IAH-AKL will be a UA monopoly) and it's hard to crank up prices on brand new routes where there is no competition, because people simply won't fly with you. The 787 will seem like a far more 'mainstream' aircraft to the general population too.
 
dispatchguy
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RE: Charging A Premium For A 787 Ticket.

Wed Sep 28, 2011 3:35 am

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 3):
If they can, it will be a *huge* coup for Boeing...very few airliners in the modern age have been able to command a premium based on the airframe (A380 and Concorde are the only ones I can think).

When UAL first started flying ORDHKG nonstop, they did charge a flight specific fare that was applicable only to that flight, in all classes.

I think it was FFAST, CFAST, and YFAST or something like that. I dont remember how much of a premium it was over a typical routing with a west coast connection.
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tdscanuck
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RE: Charging A Premium For A 787 Ticket.

Wed Sep 28, 2011 3:41 am

Quoting qf002 (Reply 4):
I really doubt it. This aircraft doesn't have the wow factor (simply being size) that the A380 was able to use to attract higher fares.

The ace in the hole may be the cabin environment. If the 787 can deliver on the promise of not having people feel like they've been on a plane for 8-12 hours after they've been on a plane for 8-12 hours, that might actually drive a meaningful preference even down into economy.

However, nobody's going to believe that until it proves itself in the market, so it will take some time.

Tom.
 
hal9213
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RE: Charging A Premium For A 787 Ticket.

Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:48 pm

I think 99% of non-aviation enthusiasts in the world do not have a clue, whatever a 787 is, contrary to the A380 or Concorde at its time.
Higher prices will only be commanded by a new cabin experience, like suites, lie-flat Js, some fancy IFE, Skycouches or similar. (Or market a downgrade as an upgrade, like LH with its "new-europe-cabin"  &nbsp  Airlines usually take the chance of designing new cabins when receiving new aircrafts (as some airlines recently did with 77Ws), but its similarly done to refurbished cabins of old aircraft.

Even A380: The only aspect still producing "wow"-effects is EKs showers and bars, SIAs doublebed suites, and maybe KEs shop. Who cares about yet-another-economy-middle-seat on the A380 ? Anybody ever watched "art" in AFs "gallery" ?    Germans are laughing about the old J seats on LH 380s and would anybody be thrilled to ride AirAustrals A380, assuming they would exist already?
 
Lufthansa
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RE: Charging A Premium For A 787 Ticket.

Wed Sep 28, 2011 3:37 pm

Quoting hal9213 (Reply 7):
Germans are laughing about the old J seats on LH 380s

This one really surprised me. Both AF and LH still using sleep at an angle seats? What were they thinking?
Especially given LH already as a 'space saving' fully flat seat being used by swiss that would pretty much fit
exactly in the upper deck. I'm really sure BA is thrilled that they made this decision when it comes to winning
connecting north american PAX.
 
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RE: Charging A Premium For A 787 Ticket.

Wed Sep 28, 2011 3:43 pm

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 8):
This one really surprised me. Both AF and LH still using sleep at an angle seats? What were they thinking?

I believe the decision to fit angled J seats on the A380 was made a while back when the marketplace was not so competitive. LH has a new design of fully flat bed J seating which will first see light of day on the B748 in 2012. Later this new J seat will be retrofitted to LH's A380s.
As for AF, your guess is as good as mine.
 
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RE: Charging A Premium For A 787 Ticket.

Wed Sep 28, 2011 3:46 pm

Quoting hal9213 (Reply 7):
I think 99% of non-aviation enthusiasts in the world do not have a clue, whatever a 787 is, contrary to the A380 or Concorde at its time.

The only two planes which really people know of is the "Jumbo Jet" Boeing 747 and as you mentioned, Concorde.
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planespotting
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RE: Charging A Premium For A 787 Ticket.

Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:01 pm

Quoting hal9213 (Reply 7):
I think 99% of non-aviation enthusiasts in the world do not have a clue, whatever a 787 is, contrary to the A380 or Concorde at its time.

This is an oft-stated statistic on a-net that I feel bares no reality to, well, reality. I would say that most of the leisure market probably doesn't care much at all about aircraft, but when it comes to frequent fliers (who are not aviation enthusiasts), they care a great deal about the product and the aircraft they're flying on. Whether it has to with the miles they're accruing, their chances for an upgrade or merely wanting to be comfortable on a 2-hour domestic flight, equipment, airline and experience are super important to frequent business travelers.

In my office, I sometimes sit next to one of my division's senior leaders who is based in Europe, but also works on the east coast and in the midwest. He cycles through here a few days a month, and I often hear his side of a conversation with someone he works with to book his travel. I can tell you if he's expecting to be on a certain type with a certain airline for a certain trip and those plans fall through, he is not hampy camper. From my experience with other frequent flyers at my current company and previous one, his attitude is not unique.
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seabosdca
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RE: Charging A Premium For A 787 Ticket.

Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:02 pm

Quoting fxramper (Thread starter):
Will airlines charge a premium on tickets they fly the 787?

No. Most (I expect all, within five years of EIS) 787s will be configured with 9Y, which actually has narrower seats than most of the competition (747s and 10Y 777s excepted). The better environment will be a nice bonus, but, like virtually any other amenity, won't command a premium. PTVs are the best example... they are WAY more noticeable to your average passenger than the 787 environmental differences, and they still don't command a meaningful premium.

I think the A380's premium will also become very small over time, but at least it has two good reasons for the premium: the novelty of size and the widest Y seats in the sky, which aren't likely to change because an A380 can reach its certified capacity at 10Y on the lower deck and 8Y on the upper.
 
qf002
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RE: Charging A Premium For A 787 Ticket.

Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:07 pm

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 6):
The ace in the hole may be the cabin environment.

How many honestly know and care though? Price will beat being able to talk about your flight on the new 787, unlike the A380 situation where everyone is in utter awe of the aircraft -- the 787 looks too 'normal' to most people.

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 8):
This one really surprised me. Both AF and LH still using sleep at an angle seats? What were they thinking?
Especially given LH already as a 'space saving' fully flat seat being used by swiss that would pretty much fit
exactly in the upper deck. I'm really sure BA is thrilled that they made this decision when it comes to winning
connecting north american PAX.

Agreed. LH should have gone with fully-flats, and I honestly don't understand why they didn't. AF seems to be hellbent on retaining the bed as a key differential between J and F, so I doubt they will be moving to fully-flats for a few more years at least. I suppose that if they can still fill the plane even with the poorer product then there's no real reason to invest the money till they need to. If they were concerned about density then they should look at the EK A380 layout.
 
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RE: Charging A Premium For A 787 Ticket.

Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:17 pm

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 3):
very few airliners in the modern age have been able to command a premium based on the airframe (A380 and Concorde are the only ones I can think).

Singapore Air's A350 nonstops from LAX/New York to Singapore...
 
wn700driver
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RE: Charging A Premium For A 787 Ticket.

Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:26 pm

Quoting glbltrvlr (Reply 14):

Singapore Air's A350 nonstops from LAX/New York to Singapore..

If you're meaning their A345s, aren't they configured to all J class? I would think that is the cause for the premium, not the route or a/c, if so...
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RE: Charging A Premium For A 787 Ticket.

Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:27 pm

Quoting glbltrvlr (Reply 14):
Singapore Air's A350 nonstops from LAX/New York to Singapore...

The premium on those flights have nothing to do with the airframe and everything to do with the product, distance, and complete lack of competition.
 
qf002
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RE: Charging A Premium For A 787 Ticket.

Wed Sep 28, 2011 5:00 pm

Quoting glbltrvlr (Reply 14):
Singapore Air's A350 nonstops from LAX/New York to Singapore...

Lucky them getting their A350s so early 
Quoting wn700driver (Reply 15):
aren't they configured to all J class?

  . It's like saying that BA's LCY-JFK service demands a premium (being 6000 pounds!) for being an A318. In any case the SQ tickets aren't all much more expensive nonstop compared with the onestop (particularly on the LAX flight).
 
fpetrutiu
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RE: Charging A Premium For A 787 Ticket.

Wed Sep 28, 2011 5:31 pm

Quoting jetfuel (Reply 1):
When is the ANA first revenue flight? I just heard a rumour that the plane may not be ready? Anybody know for sure?

November 1st. The plane is ready to fly today, if they wanted to, not sure what rumors those are.
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gothamspotter
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RE: Charging A Premium For A 787 Ticket.

Wed Sep 28, 2011 5:45 pm

If airlines market it correctly and the 787 cabin delivers on its comfort promises, they absolutely can charge a premium.
 
rampart
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RE: Charging A Premium For A 787 Ticket.

Wed Sep 28, 2011 6:10 pm

I read the title of the thread and wondered where I missed Ryanair or Spirit ordering 787s.   

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glbltrvlr
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RE: Charging A Premium For A 787 Ticket.

Wed Sep 28, 2011 6:41 pm

Quoting poLOT (Reply 16):
The premium on those flights have nothing to do with the airframe and everything to do with the product, distance, and complete lack of competition.

Precisely. The OP's question was "could an airline charge a premium for the 787?" The question implies that all other factors are equal, with a competitive service available on the same route, and with the interior equipped to a similar standard. In those circumstances, absolutely not. Larger windows and higher humidity is not going to make any difference to the vast majority of customers.

It's only when the airframe enables a service that wasn't viable before that value is created for the passenger that will translate into a willingness to spend more money. Now, you can argue that SQ's non-stop A350 to Singapore is barely viable financially, but the fact is that customers can and do pay a premium to skip the refueling stop/connection.

In the case of the 787, if Boeing's projections pan out and more secondary city direct services open up, will passengers pay a premium for those tickets over a connection through a hub? History suggests they will.

Quoting wn700driver (Reply 15):
If you're meaning their A345s, aren't they configured to all J class? I would think that is the cause for the premium, not the route or a/c, if so...

No - the A345s do have an unusually large J section, but there are coach seats available as well. In any case, the comparison needs to be apples to apples as far as seat class.
 
TomFoolery
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RE: Charging A Premium For A 787 Ticket.

Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:06 pm

Any premium, if any, will be short lived. There is alot of awareness out there, and there will be enough people out there who will make a reasonable effort to book sectors on the new 787, that most of the cheap fare bookings will be sold out quickly, leaving the higher priced fare classes. This will give the illusion that there is a premium, but in reality, the discounted tickets have long since sold out. Once the novelty wears out, it will be just another plane serving the route.

As others have pointed out, frequent travellers tend to get very pickey about the aircraft types they are booked on. This is typically due to specific cabin amenities, rather than being of a particular model. For example, a DL 767 400 ER is much different than a 767 300, which is different from the A330s. While the A330s are newer, some business travellers tend to favor the 767s J class seats/layout. Y passengers may favor the A330 over the 763 due to the superior IFE, not knowing a thing about the 764 with IFE. The key here is that different airlines have different models with different layouts. They are attracted to the product, as a result, they quickly learn to fly on equipment with their desired ammenities. Folks are more aware than they are given credit for.

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fpetrutiu
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RE: Charging A Premium For A 787 Ticket.

Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:14 pm

Quoting glbltrvlr (Reply 21):
History suggests they will.

I know I would. I would pay up to 20 to 30% more per ticket to fly non-stop. On MCO-MEM, I do it all the time, I pay on average $700 to $750 / ticket to fly non-stop as opposed to about $300 flying through ATL.
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United787
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RE: Charging A Premium For A 787 Ticket.

Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:17 pm

Slightly off topic...but will the A350 have any of the passenger advancements/improvements that the 787 is providing such as larger windows, quieter cabin, higher humidity & lower altitude pressure? I know the A380 has a really quiet cabin.
 
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bikerthai
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RE: Charging A Premium For A 787 Ticket.

Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:18 pm

Quoting TomFoolery (Reply 22):

As others have pointed out, frequent travellers tend to get very pickey about the aircraft types they are booked on. This is typically due to specific cabin amenities, rather than being of a particular model.

In this case this specific model includes a specific cabin amenity 6000ft pressure. If this help me sleep on a long flight to Asia or Europe . . . I will surely pick it on my next business trip. After all,my company is paying for the fare.

bikerthai
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Rara
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RE: Charging A Premium For A 787 Ticket.

Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:24 pm

Among the not aviation interested people in my circles, there is zero awareness of the 787, even among colleages who frequently travel by air. Interestingly, people remember the shark tail from the marketing visuals a few years ago, but they don't connect it to the present-day 787. I highly doubt any of them would pay a premium for higher windows or something.

In contrast, awareness of the A380 is pretty high.
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r2rho
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RE: Charging A Premium For A 787 Ticket.

Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:44 pm

For the average leisure traveller, there won't be a premium as there is no "wow" factor (size) like the A380.

The only way I see it happening is if the higher cabin humidity & pressurization that Boeing promotes really do make a difference, and word starts spreading around frequent travellers who value arriving more rested at their business destination, and are willing to pay a premium for it.

If the 787 fuilfills its role of bypassing hubs and opening direct routes, there will be a natural premium for the direct flight, but due to the routing and not the a/c itself.
 
brilondon
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RE: Charging A Premium For A 787 Ticket.

Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:54 pm

Quoting r2rho (Reply 27):
If the 787 fuilfills its role of bypassing hubs and opening direct routes, there will be a natural premium for the direct flight, but due to the routing and not the a/c itself.

Most airlines charge a premium for the benefits of flying direct instead of flying from point A to point B via point C.
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bikerthai
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RE: Charging A Premium For A 787 Ticket.

Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:50 pm

Quoting r2rho (Reply 27):
The only way I see it happening is if the higher cabin humidity & pressurization that Boeing promotes really do make a difference,

Boeing has done pressure chamber test to verify this.

Quoting r2rho (Reply 27):
If the 787 fuilfills its role of bypassing hubs and opening direct routes, there will be a natural premium for the direct flight, but due to the routing and not the a/c itself.

But it's the nature of the plane that makes the routing possible.

Quoting Rara (Reply 26):
In contrast, awareness of the A380 is pretty high.

The A380 have been flying for some times now. In a few of years more people will have flown the 787 than the A380. Words will spread quickly in the FF world - thanks to sites like this one, among others.

Quoting United787 (Reply 24):
Slightly off topic...but will the A350 have any of the passenger advancements/improvements that the 787 is providing such as larger windows, quieter cabin, higher humidity & lower altitude pressure?

Yes, though I don't know about the windows.

bikethai
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Rara
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RE: Charging A Premium For A 787 Ticket.

Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:01 pm

Quoting bikerthai (Reply 29):
The A380 have been flying for some times now. In a few of years more people will have flown the 787 than the A380.

Why would that be the case? Airbus and Boeing are planning to pump out about the same number of seats every month in the 787 and A380 programs (10 times 242 versus 4 times 555, in typical settings). Assuming that both types are flown with about the same load factor on average, I see no reason why more people will have flown the 787 at some point, especially since Airbus had a few years headstart.,
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bikerthai
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RE: Charging A Premium For A 787 Ticket.

Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:21 pm

Quoting Rara (Reply 30):
I see no reason why more people will have flown the 787 at some point, especially since Airbus had a few years headstart.,

Initially the 787 will fly shorter routes and thus will have more GAG per day cycle. Although I think UAL is already talking about US-Australia non stop with their 787

Besides, that is why I said a few years and not a couple of years 

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flylku
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RE: Charging A Premium For A 787 Ticket.

Wed Sep 28, 2011 11:35 pm

Quoting qf002 (Reply 4):
I really doubt it. This aircraft doesn't have the wow factor (simply being size) that the A380 was able to use to attract higher fares.

The passengers who actually know the difference are the same ones who are willing to pay a bit more. Bigger does not necessarily mean more comfortable and savvy flyers know this.
...are we there yet?
 
rj777
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RE: Charging A Premium For A 787 Ticket.

Wed Sep 28, 2011 11:48 pm

Quoting fpetrutiu (Reply 18):
The plane is ready to fly today, if they wanted to, not sure what rumors those are.

Do they already have the safety cards and in-flight magazines in them?
 
tdscanuck
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RE: Charging A Premium For A 787 Ticket.

Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:56 am

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 12):
Most (I expect all, within five years of EIS) 787s will be configured with 9Y

Why? At 9Y your payload is probably too high to hit max economic range...those operators on long thin routes will probably keep 8Y.

Quoting qf002 (Reply 13):
Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 6):
The ace in the hole may be the cabin environment.

How many honestly know and care though?

I think pretty much everyone cares about feeling better at their destination. I'm not talking about the gee-whiz stuff but the combination of humidity and pressure. It makes a *huge* difference on long flights. That's a lasting impression that people will notice. Whether or not they're willing to pay more is an open debate, but this might actually be something that people seek out.

Tom.
 
bralo20
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RE: Charging A Premium For A 787 Ticket.

Thu Sep 29, 2011 5:50 am

Quoting GothamSpotter (Reply 19):
If airlines market it correctly and the 787 cabin delivers on its comfort promises, they absolutely can charge a premium.

That will be hard if airlines will make the 787 a cattle carrier like several airlines do with the 777. I would expect to pay less to fly a cattle car. 
 
qf002
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RE: Charging A Premium For A 787 Ticket.

Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:12 am

Quoting glbltrvlr (Reply 21):
No - the A345s do have an unusually large J section, but there are coach seats available as well. In any case, the comparison needs to be apples to apples as far as seat class.

I think you need to check that out, because as of 4-5 years ago these were all J birds. Don't believe me -- check out the seatmap on SQ's own website

Quoting flylku (Reply 32):
The passengers who actually know the difference are the same ones who are willing to pay a bit more. Bigger does not necessarily mean more comfortable and savvy flyers know this.

But there aren't that many of us. The vast, vast majority of pax simply don't care, and there's no way for the airlines to differentiate between those who don't care and those who do in their ticket prices.
 
Ruscoe
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RE: Charging A Premium For A 787 Ticket.

Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:24 am

Quoting hal9213 (Reply 7):
I think 99% of non-aviation enthusiasts in the world do not have a clue

That's true unless they are told.

The 787 is a marketing department dream.

Higher pressure, higher humidity, and lighting to fool the bodies clock all add up to less jet lag, and every long haul pax knows about that.

In addition the filters , in the air circualtion system,are supplemented by UV light ducts, to kill viruses as well as fungi and bacteria.

The average pax would be very interested in that.

It might be wothwhile Boeing running their own advertising campaign in the popular press, quite apart from anything the airlines might do.

Ruscoe
 
5MillionMiler
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RE: Charging A Premium For A 787 Ticket.

Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:46 am

Quoting glbltrvlr (Reply 21):
No - the A345s do have an unusually large J section, but there are coach seats available as well. In any case, the comparison needs to be apples to apples as far as seat class.

Not on SQ. It is fully J on SIN-EWR and SIN-LAX. They have removed all the Y+ (TG still has economy)

In terms of charging a premium, I think it is about attracting people to your brand. You can charge if you have a better product that people value as differentiated... and the equipment is a part of that if you promote it as such and deliver on the promise. Having a 787 and promoting the benefits could certainly form part of a compelling proposition for a lot of people to pay a little more. They'd just need to understand their target market and work out what that price point was. LOL... I bet if they had the a.net mailing list they find a few takers!

The A380 was absolutely a huge draw for QF and SQ in terms of business traveller preferences -- partially for being on the new "it thing" and also because of all the new comforts it provided. When the 777 came out a lot of frequent travellers made an effort to get onto it. DFW-MIA routes on AA were always oversold and it was the most expensive option in economy. Even to a lesser extent, even when Qantas got the A330s on City Flyer SYD/MEL routes, many people in my office looked to book them over the 767s. They just wanted the "new Airbus".

I always think it is neat when an airline gets new equipment the employees are proud of and the passengers are really interested in and excited by. I had the pleasure of flying on Delta's first revenue 777 flight into ATL and there were staff taking photos in Orlando and in ATL -- some even had their kids (back when you could get to the gate without a ticket). People were saying. looks, "that's our new airplane!". I was on the inaugural BA 777 out of DFW to Gatwick, which was the first 777 service at DFW. There were reporters at the terminal and ONBOARD for the trip!!! Terminal was packed with people just looking at it. Fun times.
 
flyAUA
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RE: Charging A Premium For A 787 Ticket.

Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:47 am

It would be very hypocritical for any airline which does or plans to do this. After all the aircraft reduces the costs for airlines. The airlines know people will want to fly this aircraft over others if they have a choice, which is why I am put off airlines that do this.

This was the reason why I picked UAE over DLH for my next holiday. UAE didn't charge more for the A380 flights, DLH did. Shame!!
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bikerthai
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RE: Charging A Premium For A 787 Ticket.

Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:08 pm

Quoting qf002 (Reply 36):
But there aren't that many of us. The vast, vast majority of pax simply don't care,

Yes, but you frequent/business travelers are what the airlines banking on to keep them profitable. I can see that with the price comparison between a business class ticket vs. a tourist class ticket.  

bikerthai
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wn700driver
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RE: Charging A Premium For A 787 Ticket.

Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:32 pm

Quoting glbltrvlr (Reply 21):

No - the A345s do have an unusually large J section, but there are coach seats available as well. In any case, the comparison needs to be apples to apples as far as seat class.

You sure? This seems to indicate otherwise...
http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Sin...ir/Singapore_Air_Airbus_A345_B.php

It may be that they are not totally definitive here WRT SQ's entire A345 fleet, but this would seem to corroborate everything I've ever heard about those two routes. Last I heard, SQ was charging $7000 for advanced purchase tickest. Quite a premium no doubt!

Interestingly, while I was poking around, I stumbled onto this...

http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Air...ia_X/AirAsia_X_Airbus_A340-300.php

Interesting location for Premium class, isn't it? Anyone here know anymore about this or why they do that?
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fpetrutiu
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RE: Charging A Premium For A 787 Ticket.

Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:57 pm

Quoting rj777 (Reply 33):
Do they already have the safety cards and in-flight magazines in them?

Safety cards, I am pretty sure they do, magazines, I have no clue... Nonetheless neither would stop the plane from flying today. Quick trip to Kinko's and problem solved.
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qf002
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RE: Charging A Premium For A 787 Ticket.

Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:08 pm

Quoting bikerthai (Reply 40):
Yes, but you frequent/business travelers are what the airlines banking on to keep them profitable.

I agree, but like I said there is no way of discriminating fares between those who care and those who don't. It's more important that they increase exposure to the everyday public to increase the profile of the aircraft that way than target people who they can count on making money from anyway.

Quoting wn700driver (Reply 41):
Interesting location for Premium class, isn't it? Anyone here know anymore about this or why they do that?

Maybe something to do with the ultra high density layout and exit capacities?
 
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notaxonrotax
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RE: Charging A Premium For A 787 Ticket.

Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:22 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 10):
Quoting hal9213 (Reply 7):
I think 99% of non-aviation enthusiasts in the world do not have a clue, whatever a 787 is, contrary to the A380 or Concorde at its time.

The only two planes which really people know of is the "Jumbo Jet" Boeing 747 and as you mentioned, Concorde.

Although it still hurts a lot of people that the A380 takes the 747's place; reality has to be faced.
I hear many many (and I mean "many") non-aviation enthusiasts talking about the "double decker".
B787 & A350 will not turn heads while pulling up at the gate, A380 however is part of the 747 & Concorde group!

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flyAUA
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RE: Charging A Premium For A 787 Ticket.

Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:30 pm

Quoting notaxonrotax (Reply 44):

Although it still hurts a lot of people that the A380 takes the 747's place; reality has to be faced.
I hear many many (and I mean "many") non-aviation enthusiasts talking about the "double decker".
B787 & A350 will not turn heads while pulling up at the gate, A380 however is part of the 747 & Concorde group!

For the airlines, yes, I agree with you. But for the passengers don't you think that the A350 and B787 are the game changers with their "new cabin" concepts, windows, etc...?
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seabosdca
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RE: Charging A Premium For A 787 Ticket.

Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:51 pm

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 34):
Why? At 9Y your payload is probably too high to hit max economic range...those operators on long thin routes will probably keep 8Y.

I think any routes that are long enough to require 8Y to carry a "full" load won't be operated with 787s, or (at most) will be operated with 9Y 787s that take restrictions. I don't think an 8Y fleet will end up being viable for anyone in the end. The CASM will just be too high.

An 8Y 787 will suffer the same fate as 9Y 747s, 8Y DC-10s, and 7Y A345s already did -- i.e., they're all gone.
 
Curiousflyer
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RE: Charging A Premium For A 787 Ticket.

Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:25 pm

I think that people will be very interested in the 787, maybe not as much as the 380, but they will notice and mention the air quality and modern touches such as lighting and electronic window shading.

Now if this is killed by a cramped environment with 9 abreast in Y, it will kill the excitement. In Y at least.

For the 380, people seem to be very excited at the SQ and EK products, which have unique features. However these features are mostly for C and F, Y gets the same seats and longer boarding and de-boarding times than on smaller aircraft. On the other hand, people who have tried AF, in C or Y, have all said it is nothing special, because AF did not take advantage of the oportunity to improve the product significantly (yes there are some small improvements, just not enough to make a big difference).

Another thing I noticed is that despite this the AF 380 initially commanded higher prices than 777s on the same route (ie the cheaper fare classes were less available). This seems not to be the case any more, prices looked more aligned for my latest bookings. But maybe for EK and SQ it is different because their product has unique qualities and passengers will still pay a premium for the 380, mostly in F and C.

In conclusion, I think it is up to the airlines to differentiate and improve their 787 product. Cram 9 pax abreast in Y and the premium on fares will go away very fast. Use the 8 abreast Boeing recommended and you might get a good price premium (profitability is another issue as there will be less seats to sell). On the other hand flat beds in J and suites in F may maintain the premium there durably (again a higher price does not mean profitability if less seats are available for sale).

There is one thing that might help airlines maintain a premium with the 787, it is the ability to offer direct flights where other aircraft will not be profitable.
 
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notaxonrotax
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RE: Charging A Premium For A 787 Ticket.

Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:34 pm

Quoting flyAUA (Reply 45):

For the airlines, yes, I agree with you. But for the passengers don't you think that the A350 and B787 are the game changers with their "new cabin" concepts, windows, etc...?

I was responding to Jacobin777 who mentioned that only Concorde and B747 are recognized by the general public.
I´m arguing that the A380 is part of that group too……..we are talking from the outside, of course.

Whether, with time; the general public will learn to recognize the new generation jets from the inside is another story.
It remains to be seen how well the "moist" air and higher cabin pressure stands out……..and not to forget those window-gadgets. So far I haven´t heard many spectacular reactions from the brand new B737 interior for instance, but we´ll see in the next few years whether the next-generation will be able to "woo" the general public with regards to comfort.

I hear the A380´s cabin quietness is quite spectacular……….no I haven´t heard it myself, A380´s don´t seem to want to land where I reside. My hope is to experience the B787 soon……...

Cheers,

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flyAUA
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RE: Charging A Premium For A 787 Ticket.

Thu Sep 29, 2011 5:31 pm

Quoting notaxonrotax (Reply 48):
So far I haven´t heard many spectacular reactions from the brand new B737 interior for instance

You mean the mood lighting on the roof, with the LEDs, or have I missed something?

Quoting notaxonrotax (Reply 48):
I hear the A380´s cabin quietness is quite spectacular

It is indeed. Even from outside it is remarkably quiet. One wouldn't expect that from such a large aircraft.

Quoting notaxonrotax (Reply 48):
A380´s don´t seem to want to land where I reside

Yeah, I found myself going out of my way and making a stop to get on one. Good luck, you'll get on one sooner or later  
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