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tdscanuck
Posts: 8573
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:25 am

RE: Charging A Premium For A 787 Ticket.

Thu Sep 29, 2011 5:42 pm

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 46):
I think any routes that are long enough to require 8Y to carry a "full" load won't be operated with 787s, or (at most) will be operated with 9Y 787s that take restrictions.

At 9Y, you're talking about about 28 extra people or ~almost 7,000 lbs of payload plus related fuel. But, on top of that, you're talking about an extra ~3,000 lbs for the extra seats/IFE/galley equipment. So a 9Y taking a restriction is still at a disadvantage to an 8Y.

I'm not saying it won't happen, but it's not a slam dunk that it will if the airlines actually use these planes for the routes they say they're going to be using them.

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 46):
I don't think an 8Y fleet will end up being viable for anyone in the end. The CASM will just be too high.

The CASM, even at 8Y, will still be significantly lower than a 767 and they're making money with that. It will certainly be viable...it's possible that 9Y will be *more* viable on many routes, but it's simply not true that the think can't make money at 8Y.

Tom.
 
wn700driver
Posts: 1475
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 10:55 pm

RE: Charging A Premium For A 787 Ticket.

Fri Sep 30, 2011 1:54 am

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 46):
I don't think an 8Y fleet will end up being viable for anyone in the end. The CASM will just be too high.

Uh-oh... Better not tell that to the 345/6, 744/ER, 332, 763/4ER, 388, 77L/W & 343 LH & ULH operators then. If you're comparing an 8Y 788 to a 9Y789 or a 359, you'd be right. But wing to wing against anything else now flying, an 8Y 788 will look very attractive to ledger books.

For the OP, no way the 787 gets a premium. Hate to say it, but it's still just too "normal" looking. As great a machine it will be, it just doesn't have enough glamour to garner those types of premiums. Fortunately, it was designed to operate very inexpensively from the outset.
Base not your happiness on the deeds of others, for what is given can be taken away. No Hope = No Fear
 
qf002
Posts: 3681
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:14 am

RE: Charging A Premium For A 787 Ticket.

Fri Sep 30, 2011 3:07 am

Quoting flyAUA (Reply 49):
You mean the mood lighting on the roof, with the LEDs, or have I missed something?

The Sky Interior -- new bins, walls etc...

Personally I didn't think it was that amazing -- for me it felt more claustrophobic than the old layout which felt a lot wider across the cabin because the bins didn't sort of press you in... It should translate much better into the much wider 787 though.
 
wukka
Posts: 884
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:08 pm

RE: Charging A Premium For A 787 Ticket.

Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:52 am

Quoting rj777 (Reply 33):
Do they already have the safety cards and in-flight magazines in them?

Any clue how many 20 year old + proven planes that I've flown that are missing these "amenities" on boarding? I certainly hope that your comment was sarcasm.  
We can agree to disagree.
 
hal9213
Posts: 202
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 6:03 pm

RE: Charging A Premium For A 787 Ticket.

Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:11 am

Quoting flyAUA (Reply 45):
For the airlines, yes, I agree with you. But for the passengers don't you think that the A350 and B787 are the game changers with their "new cabin" concepts, windows, etc...?

An ordinary non-aviation-related human will mostly conclude from the general media. And the general media is reporting FAR more from the A380 than any other aircraft in the last 10 years and probably next 10 years. Face it, even today, you have as much news about "a new A380 route from Emirates/Lufthansa" than information about 787 delivery an EIS or 350 development.
I havent read a single general media article touting the comfort on 787s. There were tons for the A380 visits and spectator flights for the 100 years HAM anniversary last week, and tons of articles about it.
(I know I am contradicting my own opinion earlier a little bit....)
 
qf002
Posts: 3681
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:14 am

RE: Charging A Premium For A 787 Ticket.

Fri Sep 30, 2011 11:03 am

Quoting hal9213 (Reply 54):
And the general media is reporting FAR more from the A380 than any other aircraft in the last 10 years and probably next 10 years. Face it, even today, you have as much news about "a new A380 route from Emirates/Lufthansa" than information about 787 delivery an EIS or 350 development.
I havent read a single general media article touting the comfort on 787s. There were tons for the A380 visits and spectator flights for the 100 years HAM anniversary last week, and tons of articles about it.

I think that's a little unfair. Just in the last few days the media has been on fire about the first 787 delivery -- I just think it's been generally unheard in Germany (where I assume you are from your profile) because that's not where the action is (but you are literally in the thick of A380 territory). Boeing and Qantas are bringing the 787 out to Australia next month to do a promotional and that's already garnering a lot of attention in the media here, and there were reporters following the 787 around Japan when it did it's tour there a month ago.

I just think that we need to wait and see how the general public reacts to the 787 before we start making statements about the most-reported aircraft. Once the 787 is out there and flying passengers I think we will see a lot more attention and reporting.
 
glbltrvlr
Posts: 978
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:28 pm

RE: Charging A Premium For A 787 Ticket.

Sat Oct 01, 2011 1:49 am

Quoting qf002 (Reply 36):
I think you need to check that out, because as of 4-5 years ago these were all J birds.

My mistake. Last time I flew that route there was still a small coach section in back. The conversion to all J suggests the demand for those seats has improved, which should also improve the dismal economics of that route.
 
5MillionMiler
Posts: 88
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:35 am

RE: Charging A Premium For A 787 Ticket.

Sat Oct 01, 2011 6:26 am

I will pay more to be on an airplane with a better cabin product, and the newer planes tend to be better with tha

Quoting wukka (Reply 53):
Any clue how many 20 year old + proven planes that I've flown that are missing these "amenities" on boarding? I certainly hope that your comment was sarcasm.  
Quoting wukka (Reply 53):
Quoting rj777 (Reply 33):
Do they already have the safety cards and in-flight magazines in them?

Any clue how many 20 year old + proven planes that I've flown that are missing these "amenities" on boarding? I certainly hope that your comment was sarcasm.  

It's a fair question. I think he meant was the aircraft stocked from a customer-ready perspective the way the airline would want it before boarding passengers. Clearly they plane is ready to fly, as that is how it got to Japan. But the marketing and customer department would not want the "product" to be released into service looking incomplete.

It would look unprofessional to have a launch flight looking like things were not in order (cards from Kinkos would not inspire a lot of confidence). Impression for passengers might be to wonder what else had been forgotten!


Back on topic of the premium though, in the end it comes down to understanding the customer, what they value and the laws of supply/demand. With the right promotion you can charge more for something that costs less to make/operate if you create the right branding/marketing strategy. Clothing companies, car companies, software companies, restaurants and beverage companies do it all the time.

For airlines there are numerous grades of economy class and they could simply control the fare capacity in Y and in FF award seats if they wanted to discretely charge a premium.

On an around the world Star Alliance ticket, you pay between $400 to $800 extra PER SECTOR if you are flying in J on an SQ A380 or 77W, $1000 for the 345 (as it is ULH nonstop) and about $400 if you are on an AC 777 sector. So it does happen already. Now that is based on cabin fit-out more than airframe type BUT if the 787 delivers a different cabin experience you could do the same thing.
 
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flylku
Posts: 597
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2006 10:44 pm

RE: Charging A Premium For A 787 Ticket.

Sun Oct 09, 2011 4:37 pm

Quoting qf002 (Reply 36):
But there aren't that many of us. The vast, vast majority of pax simply don't care, and there's no way for the airlines to differentiate between those who don't care and those who do in their ticket prices.

I have to agree there.
...are we there yet?

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