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gdg9
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-SEA, DXB-DFW

Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:17 pm

For my first visit to Emirates website, they seem have a terrible system to 'book' flights. I went to make a 'booking' just to see what the fares are... Feb 3-10, and then March 7-14, Economy on EK 221/222. The system automatically changes you to another flight (connecting) and then shows an Economy fare of $6200+.
@dfwtower
 
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gdg9
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-SEA, DXB-DFW

Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:21 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 98):
It's only a question of time before the [777-300]ER gets onto Dallas.

That would be the first 77W to DFW from any carrier. Who knows, perhaps someday you'll see 380s from BA, QF and EK side by side in DFW!
@dfwtower
 
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seabosdca
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-SEA, DXB-DFW

Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:24 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 81):
A thrust bump also requires a software change in AIMS. They need to add the selections to the CDU Thrust Limit page.

My understanding is that all of EK's 77Ws (regardless of MTOW) already have the thrust bump -- it's just a matter of increasing the weight rating.
 
bjorn14
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-SEA, DXB-DFW

Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:32 pm

Quoting blink182 (Reply 20):
or what about DEN?

Probably take a huge penalty at least in summer.
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
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sunrisevalley
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-SEA, DXB-DFW

Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:07 pm

Quoting Kamloops (Reply 94):
Sounds Like Emirates has found away around the Canadian Government to service the Vancouver Market (High Population of Asian's & South East Asian's).


My impression was that the issue between Canada and the UAE was a frequency from YYZ greater than what is already allowed under the present agreement. I don't believe EK had any interest in serving YVR.
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-SEA, DXB-DFW

Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:16 pm

Quoting SunriseValley (Reply 104):
My impression was that the issue between Canada and the UAE was a frequency from YYZ greater than what is already allowed under the present agreement. I don't believe EK had any interest in serving YVR.

Nope. The issue is that the current UAE-Canada bilateral agreement only allows seven weekly flights between the two countries on UAE carriers. EK and EY each have three per week, and they are both used from Toronto to Dubai and Abu Dhabi, respectively.

However, the carriers argue they want not only daily flights into Toronto but also access to other cities such as Calgary, Montreal and Vancouver. Those are pretty huge markets for both carriers, but also the point of contention.
 
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MillwallSean
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-SEA, DXB-DFW

Wed Sep 28, 2011 11:15 pm

Dallas I could see coming but not Seattle.
I need to have more drinks with EK people...

I like the thoughts behind that though. Much better than going into IAD or Miami. ORD they have to serve eventually but it is very competitive.
We also over estimate India. India is important sure, but EK doesnt just cater to indians. they cater to a decent num,ber of other countries. East African countries, Iran, Pakistan etc that lack good international coverage and has a decent sized diaspora.

Next Boston.
No One Likes Us - We Dont Care.
 
BC77008
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-SEA, DXB-DFW

Wed Sep 28, 2011 11:55 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 98):

* As a DFW resident, I just love this quote: "Well, I must say, you're being a bit disingenuous to Dallas. It is a market in its own right. The notion that we serve the Dallas region from Houston was just not the case"

Well you know, all of the residents of Houston (myself included) stayed up last night and voted, out of the generosity of our hearts, to give Dallas one of our flights to Dubai. I'm just kidding of course. Congrats to the peeps in the DFW region for their new nonstop to Dubai.
MY favorite airline and hub is bigger and/or better than YOUR favorite airline and hub!
 
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gdg9
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-SEA, DXB-DFW

Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:04 am

Quoting BC77008 (Reply 107):
Well you know, all of the residents of Houston (myself included) stayed up last night and voted, out of the generosity of our hearts, to give Dallas one of our flights to Dubai. I'm just kidding of course. Congrats to the peeps in the DFW region for their new nonstop to Dubai.

We're glad to have it! IAH has been hogging a lot of the good metal for a while!
@dfwtower
 
nomorerjs
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-SEA, DXB-DFW

Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:31 am

As a native of Chicago, I think that STL and MKE to DXB on EK are more likely than ORD.
 
crAAzy
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-SEA, DXB-DFW

Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:59 am

Quoting nomoreRJs (Reply 109):
As a native of Chicago, I think that STL and MKE to DXB on EK are more likely than ORD.

You're kidding right? EK in Milwaukee? That will happen right after the AA 757 service to LHR ... LOL.

Anyway, it's nice to see DFW getting another international carrier. EK will do much better on this route than AA would have, especially given the estimate of 50-60% connecting passengers. I really doubt AA will ever get into the DXB market. Very few airlines can compete head to head with EK, especially one that's leveraging itself towards bankruptcy.

[Edited 2011-09-28 18:05:42]
 
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longhauler
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-SEA, DXB-DFW

Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:06 am

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 105):
However, the carriers argue they want not only daily flights into Toronto but also access to other cities such as Calgary, Montreal and Vancouver.

Both EK and EY were offered access to both YVR and YYC, which they declined. With their bluff being called, clearly it is YYZ and YYZ only to which they want more access.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
pnwtraveler
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-SEA, DXB-DFW

Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:11 am

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 40):
Could Air Canada or AS increase the size of the aircraft between YVR and SEA to accommodate EK's flight? The Vancouver BC area has a high Indian and Middle Eastern population...most notably, Abbotsford BC, from my observation. I hope SEA can sustain SEA-DXB flights with the 77W.

AC won't add volume to Seattle. With the cross Atlantic co-op agreement with LH, UA and AC it is far more advantageous to hub people through elsewhere particularly FRA. With the addition of the 787, watch for AC to fly from YYZ to India. A longer shot in my opinion is AI adding YVR with a 787.
 
travelin man
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-SEA, DXB-DFW

Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:22 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 71):
SEA also has enough 'tech' to help fill the forward cabin.

Most tech flies coach. (speaking as a "tech" employee). The technology industry has a mostly economy class policy for everyone but executives, with some exceptions.

However, you make up for it in volume.
 
jcs17
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-SEA, DXB-DFW

Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:23 am

Great for DFW, and the nice part is that the flights are well-timed for connections -- something that sometimes lacks from North America to the Middle East.

As for KL and LH at DFW, they'll see some of their VFR traffic to India and the Middle East disappear to EK. However, I wouldn't bet on anything drastic. Most of LH's traffic, especially in premium cabins, is originating in Europe, not DFW -- I'd assume the same is true for KL. AA/BA will be fine, obviously, they've got the DFW market tied up in terms of corporate contracts and those aren't heading to Emirates. Where EK is going to get the majority of their passengers for this flight is India and the Middle East.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
crAAzy
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-SEA, DXB-DFW

Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:39 am

It's going to be interesting to see what, if any, response AA/OW might have at DFW if the EK flight turns out to be a significant threat. Doubtful AA could compete head-to-head with EK as I mentioned before, but I image an AA DFW-DEL with the 77W and a RJ DFW-AMM flight with a 787 would be the best they could mount down the line.
 
flythere
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-SEA, DXB-DFW

Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:55 am

Even SEA is ahead of likes of ORD, IAH, BOS and MIA!! That's a weird yet interesting move!
 
thomasphoto60
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-SEA, DXB-DFW

Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:59 am

Quoting flythere (Reply 116):
Even SEA is ahead of likes of ORD, IAH, BOS and MIA!! That's a weird yet interesting move!

Ahead in what? IAH has EK service since '06'
"Show me the Braniffs"
 
airbazar
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-SEA, DXB-DFW

Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:17 am

Quoting travelin man (Reply 113):
Most tech flies coach. (speaking as a "tech" employee). The technology industry has a mostly economy class policy for everyone but executives, with some exceptions.

Yes but we pay full fare Y   My company only lets us fly Y but they don't care how much we pay for it. Just last week 2 co-workers of mine flew BOS-DFW-BOS for $1500. They could have used any of the many 1-stop options for less than $500 but in the words of my manager: "hell no! Nonstop no matter how much"  
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-SEA, DXB-DFW

Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:02 am

Quoting longhauler (Reply 111):
Both EK and EY were offered access to both YVR and YYC, which they declined. With their bluff being called, clearly it is YYZ and YYZ only to which they want more access.


Yes, but again because the bilateral agreement is for only 3 flights for each UAE carrier, 7 total amongst both of them per week. Do you really think it makes sense for 2 national airlines to spread 7 weekly flights across 3 cities in Canada? That is highly inefficient for multiple reasons.

EK (mostly) and EY have constantly stated they want more access to Canada, and not to just Toronto, but other Canadian cities as well. There is huge market potential outside of YYZ. However, it makes more sense to consolidate at one single hub (Toronto being the obvious choice as the largest city in Canada, with the strongest business and ethnic ties) and deploy high-density aircraft to provide the most seats possible at the frequencies allotted. It is why EK, when they first received the A380 and were constrained resource-wise, pulled the A380 from their JFKDXB route and sent it to YYZ.

Quoting pnwtraveler (Reply 112):
With the addition of the 787, watch for AC to fly from YYZ to India. A longer shot in my opinion is AI adding YVR with a 787.

This keeps being discussed on these forums, but I've always looked at nonstop Canada-India flights with healthy skepticism. It's been tried so many times and failed. I just don't think the traffic is high-yielding enough to sustain it year round, even with a 787, but I could be proven wrong...
 
5MillionMiler
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-SEA, DXB-DFW

Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:08 am

Gotta hand it to to EK... they are such a force to be reckoned with. Totally beat EY on what should have been a great move to secure an EY-AA setup at DFW. EK continues to amaze as they expand around the world without joining an alliance. I have been top-tier (Gold) on them for years and rarely ever I have I seen a plane that was not full (which is nice because usually they bump up frequent fliers).

I think they need more 77Ls though. I get that they will use one of the IAH LRs for DFW, which makes sense, but the third SYD flight is missing due to the lack of LRs. It is coming back in a month with a 77W but it will be payload restricted. They could use the 77L on SYD, BNE and California.

On the question of DXB-DFW on the 77W it would be restricted for sure. This week I flew Dubai to Brisbane on an EK 77W on a morning flight and we had to offload an additional 2 metric (4.4 US) tonnes of cargo because as we were preparing to depart the unexpected rise in temperature but us way above limits for a 13.5 hour flight. That was the eastbound (tailwind) sector during an autumn morning... so in August DFW flight would be heavily penalised for weight coming or going.

The LR is a great route starter, but it is also really the only economic longest route ULH aircraft in service. Imagine what the route map will look like when EK gets 787s!

I would not rule out AA and EY counter-attacking. Middle East and India is a big opportunity and growth market. AA is one carrier that has shown an ability to wear down competition at fortress DFW (KE being the resilient survivor with good service and a loyal O&D following, although AA has never tried to blow them out with a nonstop). If EY were to connect to DFW hub and put pressure on EK it could get interesting to watch those two slug it out.

As people mentioned, LH is the biggest loser here. I used to fly that route a lot of F and J were going to Southwest Asia. With BA putting in a good show to connect the Metroplex to Europe and most of MIddle East (changing at terminal 5 to go to Doha and get AAdvantage mile rather than going on EK will appeal to a lot of the AA loyal, and BA serves the places most of the Indian family/tech travelers or ME oil-business crowd goes anyway.

The Emirates product will be popular and look for them to sponsor some local sports in North Central Texas.

Anyway, congratulations DFW (it's been a great year!) and EK.
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-SEA, DXB-DFW

Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:43 am

Quoting 5MillionMiler (Reply 121):
Imagine what the route map will look like when EK gets 787s!

It will take quite an imagination, as I think they only have 70 A350's on order.  

-Dave
-Dave


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Eightball
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-SEA, DXB-DFW

Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:47 am

After I graduate from college at the end of next year, I'll fly on EK in J-class to Jeddah by upgrading my Y-class ticket with Skywards miles. Now that EK is going to serve SEA, I'll visit Seattle for a few days on my way to Jeddah, so I'll fly from San Diego to Seattle on AS or VX in Y-class, then I'll fly SEA-DXB-JED on EK in J-class. This trip back home will be in 2013, and if the time of year is right, I'll go on an orca whale watching trip in the San Juan Islands area during my stay in Seattle. The last part of the trip, the DXB-JED flight on an EK A380 in the upper deck's J-class, will be the icing on the cake. Big grin

[Edited 2011-09-28 21:14:44]
Follow your dream.
 
anrec80
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-SEA, DXB-DFW

Thu Sep 29, 2011 5:31 am

Lol. Now we are going to have yet another fun EK-Canada thread.

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 97):
Which would only demonstrate that the Canadian government is correct and that EK is looking to poach customers for connecting to destinations already served one-stop by many carriers, Canadian, European and Asian, and that EK is not trying to meet an O&D demand that exists between the two nations.

OK - what KL, BA and LH are doing on nearly daily basis in YYZ and YVR then (along with KE)? After all, I still do not get this O&D thingie of Canadians (which looks rather like an excuse to favor one group of market operator against some others). I do not see any benefit at all - this limits the exposure of Canadian market participants to business opportunities abroad (and others to do business with Canadians), and limits their access to world transportation systems (both for pax and cargo). That also makes links Canada-world less efficient.

Quoting Kamloops (Reply 94):
I am still happy that Canada has stayed firm on their choice, and are protecting Canadian Jobs.

Not sure about that one. What dent would EK daily flights to even both YYZ and YVR make to Canadian jobs? I am curious how many have been "saved"?

Quoting longhauler (Reply 111):
Both EK and EY were offered access to both YVR and YYC, which they declined. With their bluff being called, clearly it is YYZ and YYZ only to which they want more access.

It also depends on how that was offered. The rights to YYC and YVR were "generously" offered in exchange of capacity reduction:
http://www.thestar.com/business/arti...bears-brunt-of-failed-negotiations
As if such a proposition has had a chance to be of some value to someone.

If EK code-shares with AS, I am curious what percentage of pax on SEA flight will be from YVR. It will be a practical connection - AS flies between SEA and YVR every hour, if not more frequently than that, and US customs checks are in YVR, so that even 1 hour of connection time in SEA is sufficient to a pax. And certainly some more business for AS on the route - my impression has always been that Canadian cities are underserved.
 
Marco
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-SEA, DXB-DFW

Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:05 am

Canada is insignficant in the grand scheme of things, and this includes to EK. This does not mean that EK will give up on landing rights to Canada but let's keep in mind EK flies 8 daily flights to London where people actually pay for F and J willingly, amongst a plethora of other high yielding destinations. The Canadian market is a very cost sensitive, cheap, VFR market so it is not a priority for most airlines. If anyone would benefit from an increased EK presence, it would be Canadians receiving top notch service on the latest aircraft at a reasonable price. Whether or not EK is serving O&D or connecting demand is irrelevant. Just look at the KLM, AF, BA counters at Pearson, most pax are connecting pax! The same applies to YUL and YVR!

If the Canadian people want to subsidize a rude, ailing, over-priced airline that doesn't even fly to the Middle East (excluding TLV) or India and the Subcontinent, and pay a higher price for bad service under the pretext of a myth of "protecting jobs" then go for it!

When an airline from the East competes with "1st world" airlines and does a good job, people call it "poaching passengers" and try to belittle EK's success by making false accusations of government subsidies, etc.

Anyway, congrats to EK on the launch of these two routes, I am sure the SEA route will do well with Asian pax from YVR who want a one stop service to several Indian and Pakistani cities on an airline that provides ample food, warm service, and a similar culture.
Proud to be an Assyrian!
 
anrec80
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-SEA, DXB-DFW

Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:44 am

Quoting marco (Reply 125):
Canada is insignficant in the grand scheme of things, and this includes to EK.

Even though I am Canadian, it's hard to argue with this statement. Yes, population-wise Canada is a small 30+ million country. Unfortunately, Canada frequently takes this self-isolationist stand, which only helps preserve inefficiencies and slows down advancement. The only way for Canada to increase its weight and influence is to become more competitive, more open to competition and better integrated.

Quoting marco (Reply 125):
When an airline from the East competes with "1st world" airlines and does a good job, people call it "poaching passengers" and try to belittle EK's success by making false accusations of government subsidies, etc.

That happens a lot in Western politics, not only in airlines. It's the easiest way to help local less competitive player stay afloat, but in reality it's a wrong way and it leads to falling behind. The local players should be encouraged to compete and become more efficient, rather than protected.

Fortunately, there is more and more competition from Eastern world, and in many other areas - industry, science, aerospace.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Emirates Announces DXB-SEA, DXB-DFW

Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:47 am

Quoting longhauler (Reply 75):
Thai used A310-304s from SEA-YYZ-SEA to connect with their SEA-BKK flights.

Wow, I learned something new today. Thanks
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-SEA, DXB-DFW

Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:08 am

Quoting 5MillionMiler (Reply 120):
I think they need more 77Ls though. I get that they will use one of the IAH LRs for DFW, which makes sense, but the third SYD flight is missing due to the lack of LRs. It is coming back in a month with a 77W but it will be payload restricted. They could use the 77L on SYD, BNE and California.

If EK wanted to, the airline could take the 77L of the DXB PER route where its range is not really needed. Overall, EK could make different use of its 10-strong B77L fleet than the twice daily IAH and once daily LAX rotations that are the only ULH flights in the current 77L flying program. Yet it seems EK is quite content to deploy B77W equipment and absorb some operational penalties instead. I presume there must be an economic rationale behind these deployment decisions. I doubt therefore we will see additional 77L capacity added to the EK fleet.
 
5MillionMiler
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-SEA, DXB-DFW

Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:27 am

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 121):

Quoting 5MillionMiler (Reply 121):
Imagine what the route map will look like when EK gets 787s!

It will take quite an imagination, as I think they only have 70 A350's on order.  

Ahhh... indeed! LOL good point. I guess I was thinking Timmy buys every new toy and had assumed they would get 787-10s but think you are right that nothing confirmed.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 127):
If EK wanted to, the airline could take the 77L of the DXB PER route where its range is not really needed.

Yes that is a curious route to put it on, as is AMS. I can see how it would make sense on regional routes to fill down time, but Perth pulls it off cycle for long time. Although I have seen the 77W subbed-in on the LR designated PER and AMS routes. Now that EK has the suites getting across the 77W fleet in F the product is the same. I used to hate being booked on the LR and getting one of the 77Ws with the old recliners in business. Does not seem to happen any more and the 77Ws I have been on recently all had 77L/A380 suites in F.

They will need the 77L out of Dallas -- and it will be nice to have one there! KE and AA will soon have the 77W there... and the press here said Qantas wants to take the A380 there. Will be nice to see some variety going through DFW.
 
tdscanuck
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-SEA, DXB-DFW

Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:35 pm

Quoting marco (Reply 124):
Canada is insignficant in the grand scheme of things

That's like saying Saudi Arabia is insignificant in the grand scheme of things...you're talking about a country with about the same population and somewhere between 90% and 800% of the oil reserves. *Especially* for a carrier based in an oil-centered region like Emirates, Canada is only going to grow in importance for them over time.

Tom.
 
jfk777
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-SEA, DXB-DFW

Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:18 pm

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 127):
If EK wanted to, the airline could take the 77L of the DXB PER route where its range is not really needed. Overall, EK could make different use of its 10-strong B77L fleet than the twice daily IAH and once daily LAX rotations that are the only ULH flights in the current 77L flying program. Yet it seems EK is quite content to deploy B77W equipment and absorb some operational penalties instead. I presume there must be an economic rationale behind these deployment decisions. I doubt therefore we will see additional 77L capacity added to the EK fleet.

Since Emirates has been able to use the 77W to LAX and SFO the 777LR is being used to open new routes until the market can fill a 777-300ER. DFW may need the extra power of the 777LR with the weather there, but EK has balls going into the heart of AA. Houston has always had a biger mix of European airlines then DFW so EK flying there is not such an invasion into Continetal's biggest hub.
 
MSN007
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-SEA, DXB-DFW

Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:20 pm

If EK is successful along with the LH and the likes, I can see TK eying SEA as well in the near future.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-SEA, DXB-DFW

Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:58 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 72):
Don't forget, UAE recently increased the costs of visitors visas for Canadians, making it less attractive as a transfer point. While they thought it was "retaliation" against Canadians, it really was a windfall for just about every other airline carrying Canadians from Canada to South Asia.

Yea... I don't get those visas either...

Quoting commavia (Reply 98):
* Interesting to hear him quantify about 50-60% of the market as likely to be connections

Very interesting!

Quoting travelin man (Reply 113):
Most tech flies coach. (speaking as a "tech" employee). The technology industry has a mostly economy class policy for everyone but executives, with some exceptions.

Interesting. I know quite a few who ride upfront in J to/from India, Thailand, Malaysia, and Japan. I'll be interested to see EK's J loads from SEA. Note: Some of those I know are executives, some are 'just higher pay grade engineers.' My age in my profile is correct.  
Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 129):
Canada is only going to grow in importance for them over time.

   So the UAE will keep trying for more rights... Probably won't happen. But nothing happens if one doesn't try.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
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sunrisevalley
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-SEA, DXB-DFW

Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:17 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 132):
So the UAE will keep trying for more rights... Probably won't happen. But nothing happens if one doesn't try.

These agreements are supposed to be reciprocal. What can UAE offer Canada in that respect? Perhaps a code share for a designated Canadian carrier on their flights through DXB to and from Asian O & D points.
 
goldenstate
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-SEA, DXB-DFW

Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:44 pm

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 89):
NYC already has two airlines that serve nonstop to India: UA/CO (@EWR) and AI @ JFK. These two essentially pushed DL out of JFKBOM. In fact, IIRC, JFKBOM was tried twice - the first time it was shifted to ATL, then back to JFK, then halted altogether.

Combined with all of the other foreign flag carriers that fly into JFK, in addition to another Indian carrier (9W) there is no room, nor need, for another. One US legacy carrier and one Indian carrier flying nonstop on ULH routes that struggle to make $$.

Those are some pretty definitive statements on your part. I think your analysis is a bit simplistic. It was not a zero-sum competitive environment, and there were significantly more variables in play than you seem to realize--particularly for Delta, which was re-evaluating network priorities as a result of the NWA merger.

Clearly, the mad scramble into US-India nonstop was premature and resulted in overcapacity. However, that does not change long term market prospects. As the market matures and economic ties continue to grow, US-India will develop the ability to sustain a revenue premium for nonstop services. When that is the case, DL will be ready to get back in. In the meantime, EK's continued capacity addition probably pushes that time further into the future.

Quoting marco (Reply 124):
Canada is insignficant in the grand scheme of things, and this includes to EK. This does not mean that EK will give up on landing rights to Canada but let's keep in mind EK flies 8 daily flights to London where people actually pay for F and J willingly, amongst a plethora of other high yielding destinations. The Canadian market is a very cost sensitive, cheap, VFR market so it is not a priority for most airlines.

I fail to understand how a G8 economy, especially one which is a net exporter of energy, can be considered "insignificant" in the grand scheme of anything. The UAE government seems to consider Canada quite significant because they have pulled just about every available lever to try to increase access for UAE carriers. Cost sensitive VFR traffic flows to/from the Indian subcontinent are a critical revenue stream for UAE carriers, and while your statement about the nature of the Canadian market is not universally true, it does explain why Canada is so attractive to EK and EY.

Quoting marco (Reply 124):
If the Canadian people want to subsidize a rude, ailing, over-priced airline that doesn't even fly to the Middle East (excluding TLV) or India and the Subcontinent, and pay a higher price for bad service under the pretext of a myth of "protecting jobs" then go for it!

When an airline from the East competes with "1st world" airlines and does a good job, people call it "poaching passengers" and try to belittle EK's success by making false accusations of government subsidies, etc.

I think there is a valid question as to the purpose and intent of aviation bilateral liberalization between markets of vastly different size and economic/political philosophy. To dismiss the debate as "false" is no more accurate than to suggest that EK's success is entirely due to "government subsidies." There are some fundamental competitive imbalances between Gulf carriers and Western legacies. Western governments have the ability to ease many of these but are unable/unwilling to do so. So to the extent that Gulf carriers are able to capitalize on stagnant and anti-growth aviation policies in the West, I say more power to them but let's also be honest about why things are the way they are.
 
Curiousflyer
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-SEA, DXB-DFW

Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:46 pm

Quoting blink182 (Reply 20):
As for SEA, I'm not as familiar with the market beyond technology and tourism(which are both very strong), but given a catchment area that may include YVR, this route should probably be okay.

Yes I fully agreee that having YVR close by is a smart way to go around the Canadians' opposition to EK service to their country. Especially now that they started interlining with WestJet!

[Edited 2011-09-29 08:47:44]
 
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RWA380
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-SEA, DXB-DFW

Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:02 pm

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 73):

The TG services to SEA at first went BKK-NRT-SEA-DFW on 742's, then changed to a BKK-TPE-SEA-YYZ routing on 743's then switched to a M11. At some stage TG based one A-310 in SEA to run the tag to YYZ, Thus ron'ing the M11 or 743 in SEA. When they pulled out of SEA, LAX became their US gateway. I flew them once SEA-YYZ-SEA once on the M11 in J, a great experience.
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Quokka
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-SEA, DXB-DFW

Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:22 pm

If Seattle was chosen to get up the nose of Harper, can we expect Buffalo to be next?   

Seriously, for the US market this is good news as travellers in the announced areas are offered greater options.

I readily admit that I do not know how EK determines where it will next launch, but at present the destinations seem dotted about the "outside of the map". I wonder if they might next go for somewhere in the "middle". Even EK might look at catchments rather than simple local potential, so could we see somewhere in the mid west?
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-SEA, DXB-DFW

Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:47 pm

Quoting CuriousFlyer (Reply 135):
Especially now that they started interlining with WestJet!

I didn't see *any* Westjet flights to SEA on their routemap. Why would anyone fly Yxx to YVR and then drive to SEA?!?

Is Westjet planning a SEA expansion that I missed?

Lightsaber
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-SEA, DXB-DFW

Thu Sep 29, 2011 5:04 pm

Also consider the EK flight from SEA will also be receiving traffic from PDX, with Intel, Nike & Adidas here, there is bound to be connecting traffic. I fully expect EK to work out some kind of deal with AS for connecting paxs from PDX & YVR, as well as the rest of their NW route system. After all AS is liberal when it comes to partnerships.
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MAH4546
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-SEA, DXB-DFW

Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:44 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 139):
After all AS is liberal when it comes to partnerships.

But EK is not. There is no incentive to codeshare when interlining keeps more of the revenue with EK.
a.
 
5MillionMiler
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-SEA, DXB-DFW

Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:55 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 136):
The TG services to SEA at first went BKK-NRT-SEA-DFW on 742's


TG also ran 743s to DFW for a while -- I believe they were the only ones ever to serve DFW with the 743. I used to see them at the far gate at old 2-W terminal (as it was called then) that LH and later JL used. DFW has now seen regular service by 741, 742, 74M, 74L, 74M, 743, 74F, 744 and 744-ER over the last 37 years... but the types are each limited to one or two carriers at any one time operating a passenger 747 over the course of DFW's history.

Even NW and NZ used to serve DFW with 747s in the 80s until AA ran them out. JL more recently, and would be nice for KE to use the 748 one day.

So nice to be getting the EK 77L into DFW as that will be a new type. Would not be surprised to see the occasional sub of a 77W into DFW by EK in winter if they are short a 77L on the day.
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-SEA, DXB-DFW

Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:33 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 140):
But EK is not. There is no incentive to codeshare when interlining keeps more of the revenue with EK.

I think it would be tremendously in EK's benefit to a least form a FF partnership with AS given the huge number of AS Mileage Plan members in the lovely Pacific Northwest.

Personally, if I were flying to say DEL or JNB, I'd sure want to get my FF miles and elite qualifying points. I'd fly DL, for example just for that. But if EK was a member of AS's Mileage Plan, I'd probably go SEA-DXB-DEL instead. That might be the same with a lot of other people.

With the exception of LH being in *A, I haven't heard of any new international airline coming into SEA lately who didn't at least talk to AS about a partnership. AF, FI and KE inked new agreements. HU talked to AS (I'm guessing the fact that DL also does SEA-PEK nixed a potential deal there).
 
Viscount724
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-SEA, DXB-DFW

Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:48 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 136):
The TG services to SEA at first went BKK-NRT-SEA-DFW on 742's, then changed to a BKK-TPE-SEA-YYZ routing on 743's then switched to a M11. At some stage TG based one A-310 in SEA to run the tag to YYZ, Thus ron'ing the M11 or 743 in SEA. When they pulled out of SEA, LAX became their US gateway. I flew them once SEA-YYZ-SEA once on the M11 in J, a great experience.

And all those serves were highly unprofitable. I doubt any TG services to North America have ever been profitable.

Quoting marco (Reply 124):
If the Canadian people want to subsidize a rude, ailing, over-priced airline that doesn't even fly to the Middle East (excluding TLV) or India and the Subcontinent, and pay a higher price for bad service under the pretext of a myth of "protecting jobs" then go for it!

Rude? In my experience AC's service is as good or better than most of their competitors. They've won many awards for the quality of their service. And they don't cram Y class passengers in 10-abreast on 777s like EK and a number of of other 777 operators.

Overpriced? Their fares are very competitive. If they weren't they wouldn't be achieving 87% load factors.
 
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gunsontheroof
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-SEA, DXB-DFW

Fri Sep 30, 2011 3:15 am

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 63):
Not a stupid question. I assume they will go over the pole.

This route is about as polar as they come--I've noticed before when tracking deliveries flying PAE-DXB. Should be a cool routing for enthusiasts!

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 142):
With the exception of LH being in *A, I haven't heard of any new international airline coming into SEA lately who didn't at least talk to AS about a partnership. AF, FI and KE inked new agreements. HU talked to AS (I'm guessing the fact that DL also does SEA-PEK nixed a potential deal there).
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 140):
But EK is not. There is no incentive to codeshare when interlining keeps more of the revenue with EK.

We'll see what happens. I'd be surprised if EK wasn't at least talking with AS about this given the huge amount of feed they stand to access.
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DTWLAX
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-SEA, DXB-DFW

Fri Sep 30, 2011 3:24 am

Quoting commavia (Reply 1):
SEA is also logical - I understand the tech market back and forth with India is huge, and this will definitely provide tons of new connections.

Yeah... especially for secondary cities other than BOM and DEL.

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 9):
they will add a PDX tag on the SEA flight

High hopes eh?

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 11):
Maybe, but I can't see Miami coming before Chicago. Then again, I would never have seen Seattle and Dallas before Chicago, either.

How about BOS or ATL.... if EK enters ATL, then I guess it will bring down the DL flight to DXB.

Quoting CargoLex (Reply 47):
However, I did wonder why a carrier like AI, 9W, or TG, or even DL, wouldn't be interested in offering service to India or SE Asia from SEA. That's a sizable market from SEA and probably could have supported direct service. I suppose they still could come in - a direct flight to Mumbai or Bangkok would still be shorter than a flight to Dubai and a connection

DL serves India through AMS - DL to BOM and KL to DEL. Also there is AF service to DEL, BOM, BLR through CDG.
The advantage EK has is it offers service to secondary cities in India thus allowing passengers to bypass BOM or DEL.

Quoting blink182 (Reply 85):
I may be wrong, but if we're focusing on India here, I thought KL only served DEL, and hence may not be overly affected by EK's entry. They might take a hit to Africa if EK's fares are low enough to force KL out, but if anything, I think LH with its big network to India is more likely to take a hit than KL will.

I feel DL/KLM/AF are the bigger losers with the addition of EK service to DFW and SEA - not only for service to India, but they will also see a dip revenue on the transatlantic sector for people traveling to anywhere outside the European region.
 
F9Animal
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-SEA, DXB-DFW

Fri Sep 30, 2011 3:25 am

This is awesome news! I can't wait to see their planes at SEA. Their is no doubt in my mind that they will fill those birds out of here. But a 777? Can't we get anything more exotic into SEA? I miss Aeroflot flying a 96-300 and the occasional TU-154.

I have no clue on the following question... Can SEA support the A380?
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aa757first
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-SEA, DXB-DFW

Fri Sep 30, 2011 4:07 am

Quoting CargoLex (Reply 47):
I'm somewhat surprised at the SEA announcement. I honestly did not think we'd see EK here anytime soon. However, I did wonder why a carrier like AI, 9W, or TG, or even DL, wouldn't be interested in offering service to India or SE Asia from SEA. That's a sizable market from SEA and probably could have supported direct service. I suppose they still could come in - a direct flight to Mumbai or Bangkok would still be shorter than a flight to Dubai and a connection. EK makes it more difficult for those carriers to justify it, however, and maybe that's part of the intent.

SFO is home to most of the world's technology firms and also home to a huge number of ethnic Indians and 9W couldn't even make that route work. I doubt SEA is even on their radar.
 
LipeGIG
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-SEA, DXB-DFW

Fri Sep 30, 2011 4:54 am

Well done EK !

SEA is not a major hub but a strong industrial area with limited service to many regions of the globe. EK is just a player that take full advantage of each new destination and balance their network to offer valuable and interesting connections. It may have 2 pax a day between SEA and some places EK serves, but being an important Boeing base, as well as for many major corps with HQ or important offices/factories closer (such as Microsoft, DAF and of course Boeing) we may expect that they can fight for some connections nowadays on the hands of other airliners but with connections not as easy at DXB.

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 25):

You really think that EK decided to serve SEA before ORD, MIA and IAD without analyzing the prospective profitability of the route?

I see ORD as a better covered market to Europe and Asia than SEA. IAD is also under strong European operators shadow. Probably bigger markets, but also with more challenges.
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RWA380
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-SEA, DXB-DFW

Fri Sep 30, 2011 6:26 am

One thing unmentioned here so far in regards to draw from YVR is the cargo. There are currently no aircraft flying YVR-SEA that could carry any tangible amount of cargo for connecting purposes. Obviously any AS codeshare would be about passengers and cargo would need to be trucked to SEA. If EK ever wants to fully realize the potential of their SEA flight they will need AS to bring the Pacific NW to the door of that daily 777. For the response that EK is fussy about who they codeshare with, I reply, they just signed with Westjet. AS would certainly be a much better and reputable partner.
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