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B747-4U3
Posts: 617
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2002 8:08 am

RE: Korean Air To Launch LGW

Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:33 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 49):

Worth remembering LGW lost QR only recently and EY before them citing better yields at LHR, indeed QR went to MAN. Now only the mighty EK remains. Incidentally, anyone know when Pier One closes? Fancy one last trip down memory lane.

Unless I am mistaken, I think Malaysia Airlines did/ were at one point going to operate into Gatwick a couple of times per week during the peak travel season. I can't remember if it happened or if it got canned before it started. It does show however how Gatwick plays second fiddle to Heathrow.

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 49):
Korean Air and Vietnam Airlines, long haul carriers, non loco. I honestly don't see that as a long term addition at LGW, particularly Skyteam's KE who need to extract as much back from their investment at LHR T4 as possible.

It does seem strange that Vietnam Airlines chose LGW over LHR given that I believe the one time where slots are available at LHR is a good time to operate flights to Vietnam. If I am not mistaken there is some slack for flights arriving in the late afternoon (1500-1600 or so) and departing late at night. CI - a fairly new addition to LHR - did not seem to have trouble getting slots at these times.

The problem with KE moving to LHR is the schedule. The arrival time I don't think is a problem, but the departure time is peak time at LHR when slots are scarce and expensive. I am not sure how flexible KE can be with the flight times, given that they are timed for connections in Seoul - I would imagine they would ideally want the flight out of the UK before lunch so that it makes it to Seoul early in the morning. Should these slots become available I have no doubt that they'll be moving.
 
fcogafa
Posts: 1310
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:37 pm

RE: Korean Air To Launch LGW

Sat Oct 08, 2011 10:07 am

Quoting B747-4U3 (Reply 50):
It does seem strange that Vietnam Airlines chose LGW over LHR given that I believe the one time where slots are available at LHR is a good time to operate flights to Vietnam

Vietnam wanted to use LHR but slots were the problem, as per this link...
http://blogs.ft.com/beyond-brics/201...lines-big-ambitions/#axzz1a7gFGPUe
 
B747-4U3
Posts: 617
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2002 8:08 am

RE: Korean Air To Launch LGW

Sat Oct 08, 2011 11:54 am

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 51):
Quoting B747-4U3 (Reply 50):
It does seem strange that Vietnam Airlines chose LGW over LHR given that I believe the one time where slots are available at LHR is a good time to operate flights to Vietnam

Vietnam wanted to use LHR but slots were the problem, as per this link...
http://blogs.ft.com/beyond-brics/201...FGPUe

But when you look at the flight times they are scheduled to arrive at LGW at 0720 and leave at 1200. This is peak time at LHR, so no wonder they are struggling to find slots at LHR at those times.

I'm sure if they wanted to arrive at say 1600 and leave at 2000 they would not have such a problem (as was the case with CI). As can be seen in the document below, there is a small amount of spare capacity in arrivals from about 1430 onwards and departures from about 1930 onwards. The question is whether those times work with Vietnam Airlines's aircraft utilisation or the connections they want to offer.

LHR%20S11%20Start%20of%20Season%20report_2.pdf" target="_blank">http://80.168.119.219/UserFiles/File...Start%20of%20Season%20report_2.pdf
 
mandala499
Posts: 6600
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: Korean Air To Launch LGW

Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:38 pm

Quoting A340600 (Reply 31):
Much as I am sure there is truth in both sides here, how people speak with such authority on this site is always greatly amusing. Do you have personal meetings with all of these airlines on the subject of London airports? Gatwick management have always said they will try and attract long haul traffic, it's been in the press many times. Whether they think they can hold the customers long term is indeed debatable, as I am sure they realise, but running an airport with a "realist" attitude such as yours is surely a terrible business decision, no?

From a personal meeting with someone from Air Asia group (this is what I am told, I don't know the real facts of course)... they initially thought that STN would be good because it's an LCC "center"... well, that was in the days when BAA ran LHR/LGW/STN.
LCC presence in LGW is growing with U2... but, someone from LGW approached someone in Air Asia group and asked if they could consider LGW for D7's London airport. That idea was laughed at by some, but the group decided to ask proponents of LGW and STN to make their cases internally by discussing what deals they can get from LGW and STN...
While STN was cheaper, LGW offered a better business case... so they decided to move from STN to LGW.
Some points from the meeting/discussions:
1. LGW is traditionally London's main leisure airport.
2. LCC and non-LCC flights serve predominantly the leisure sector out of LGW, and STN was a mix of business and leisure for LCCs.
3. D7's passengers are predominantly leisure oriented.
4. D7's premium passengers may prefer LGW, just like premium passengers for long-haul leisure routes are used to going to LGW.
5. D7's passengers from Asia to STN has London as a destination or in/out point before/after travel... so, LGW is better for this. Premium passengers originating in STN were predominantly from London, so LGW is better for them. From other cities, those pax just fly EK out of NCL, BHX, MAN, whatever... which negates the "LCC center as destination" argument.
5. Bigger catchment area for D7 out of LGW, covering London and the whole of the southeast.
6. LGW is not BAA owned, and new owners/management are eager to attract new traffic, therefore, better concessions for D7 to move there.

For Garuda's plans to return to London, arguments for LHR vs LGW (I am told), are as follows:
1. LGW was GA's original London destination.
2. LGW predominantly leisure and LHR predominantly business.
3. GA to UK is perceived as a leisure route. Future SkyTeam membership may not be enough to change this to a business route.
4. GA's return to AMS has so far been filled with leisure pax and business class loads has been underperforming.
5. Conclusion at the moment, LGW is better than LHR for GA.

Just some "meetings" I've had with them...

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
LGWflyer
Posts: 2233
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:38 pm

RE: Korean Air To Launch LGW

Sun Oct 09, 2011 12:23 am

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 53):
Just some "meetings" I've had with them...

Interesting, thanks for the info. Keep us updated!
3 words... I Love Aviation!!!
 
LJ
Posts: 5463
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

RE: Korean Air To Launch LGW

Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:42 am

Quoting B747-4U3 (Reply 50):

The problem with KE moving to LHR is the schedule. The arrival time I don't think is a problem, but the departure time is peak time at LHR when slots are scarce and expensive. I am not sure how flexible KE can be with the flight times, given that they are timed for connections in Seoul - I would imagine they would ideally want the flight out of the UK before lunch so that it makes it to Seoul early in the morning. Should these slots become available I have no doubt that they'll be moving.

Skyteam does have a departure slot around noon (as KL1015/16 is just a slot holder). However, I think they cannot move the departure by 1.5 hours (if so they would have used the KL1016 slots).
 
tcasalert
Posts: 448
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:34 am

RE: Korean Air To Launch LGW

Sun Oct 09, 2011 9:17 am

Quoting gabrielchew (Reply 46):
I've always been surpised that there isn't an early morning LHR-JFK flight on BA. Something like LHR 0600-0845 JFK. A nice early morning flight that can get you to the office in the morning.

Problem is the return leg. Who wants to takeoff from JFK at 1000 and arrive into LHR at 2245? With checkin at JFK you'd have lost an entire day.
Next flight: Feb 2012 - BHX-CPH-BHX - SK MD87 / CRJ900

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