Rumor: US Airways To Acquire Republic, Frontier

gdg9 · Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:57 pm

Anyone heard this one yet? US Airways looking to acquire Republic Holdings and get their hands on Frontiers A319s, A320s and DEN, MKE hub operations...

AA787 · Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:03 pm

do you have a link to any news story?

william · Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:04 pm

Would not surprise me, I wander what took US so long to make a move. Fills in the midwest hole in their system pretty quickly.

sccutler · Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:06 pm

End Republic's long, smoldering nightmare?

At least the Frontier folks will be preserved from the living hell that would have ensued, had they been reduced to working for Southwest.

(grin)

C010T3 · Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:14 pm

Well, as long as they keep the fresh-baked cookies, I'm on board!

STT757 · Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:14 pm

Why would they want Denver? It's too close to PHX not to be redundant and DEN is in a unsustainable three way battle. The yields there are terrible, I can see them moving those assets away from DEN to PHX or to try and build up a hub someplace else.

usairways85 · Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:21 pm

What so since they have beaten back WN a bit in PHL they think they can do it in DEN?

C010T3 · Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:22 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 5):
or to try and build up a hub someplace else.

Maybe at an abandoned hub like STL.

IADLHR · Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:22 pm

A neighbor of mine, is a retired tgransporgtation lawyer in DC. He just returned from a months vacation in PHX. He said that there were some rumblings that something, could, happen along these lines. However, he thought it would be many months before anything played out.

US, will first deal with the DCA/LGA slot swap before undertaking anything else.

STT757 · Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:25 pm

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 7):

Maybe at an abandoned hub like STL

That would be nice, better to be #1 in St. Louis than #3 in Denver.

Polot · Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:30 pm

If it happens, I would think it is more likely that US just purchases F9 from Republic, not the whole holding group. I don't see US's competitors contracting to Republic, Chautauqua et al anymore if all it is doing is helping US.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 5):
Why would they want Denver? It's too close to PHX not to be redundant and DEN is in a unsustainable three way battle. The yields there are terrible, I can see them moving those assets away from DEN to PHX or to try and build up a hub someplace else.

Why would they want MKE for that matter too. Plus the nightmares with all the employees.

bobnwa · Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:32 pm

Quoting gdg9 (Thread starter):
Anyone heard this one yet? US Airways looking to acquire Republic Holdings and get their hands on Frontiers A319s, A320s and DEN, MKE hub operations...

Other than your posting have not heard or seen anything that remotely suggests it.

yowza · Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:34 pm

Is there any source behind this or is this purely speculation at this point?

YOWza

apodino · Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:36 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 5):
Why would they want Denver? It's too close to PHX not to be redundant and DEN is in a unsustainable three way battle. The yields there are terrible, I can see them moving those assets away from DEN to PHX or to try and build up a hub someplace else.

Well, if UA didn't have a hub in DEN I might agree with that. But UA does, and as long as US is in Star Alliance this will benefit UA because UA can slap their code on a lot of US flights thus adding service without having to provide their own metal.

STT757 · Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:39 pm

I think US would rather wait and pounce on AA, what does Republic give them MKE and DEN?..

swalifebtw · Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:55 pm

So I guess someone could start a thread: "New Frontier/Republic/USAirways Part 28" LMAO

DiamondFlyer · Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:03 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 9):

That would be nice, better to be #1 in St. Louis than #3 in Denver.

Split the difference, abandon the F9 hub at DEN, don't waste time with the STL hub, just build up the former YX hub at MCI. Heck, US had a code share deal with Mesa at MCI for years covering many, many rural areas around MCI.

-DiamondFlyer

gdg9 · Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:19 pm

Quoting AA787 (Reply 1):
do you have a link to any news story?

Quoting YOWza (Reply 12):
Is there any source behind this or is this purely speculation at this point?

No, nothing concrete at all. Just talk, which is all it is. Thought it may be an interesting discussion, wondered if anyone else had heard the (unconfirmed) rumors.

deltairlines · Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:21 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 5):
Why would they want Denver? It's too close to PHX not to be redundant and DEN is in a unsustainable three way battle. The yields there are terrible, I can see them moving those assets away from DEN to PHX or to try and build up a hub someplace else.

Perfectly summarized why buying US buying F9 is a stupid idea.

sunking737 · Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:26 pm

Seriously? Seriously? The East and West pilots can't even get their crap together and now the toss in the F9/Rejet pilot groups?

What kool-aid are you drinking? Seriously?

PlaneAdmirer · Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:38 pm

How about adding "Unconfirmed, unsubstantianted rumor:" to the beginning of this thread title? I was expecting to see something more reliable.

Oh yeah, and with this rumor, it would seem that US would be giving up it's membership in the Star Alliance.

flyby519 · Fri Oct 14, 2011 3:13 pm

Didnt Republic help finance US when they were exiting bankruptcy?

furlough · Fri Oct 14, 2011 3:45 pm

This will not happen. Doug Parker and Scott Kirby have both said that they do not see value in any merger unless it is with AA, DL, or UA. Its almost a given that it wouldn't be with UA or DL any time soon, which leaves AA. F9 is very small, and US is not interesting in growing, they are interesting in consolidating (i.e. closing redundant hubs/returning aircraft). If US were to acquire F9, it would almost solidify the death of F9. US has no interest in DEN, it is covered well by the UA codeshare, and as others have said, it is pretty redundant with PHX, where US is the number one carrier and not involved in a 3 way fight.

US wants to merge with a carrier that has a hub or hubs where there is substantial O/D traffic and pricing power. That really only leaves AA/UA/DL. While MKE, DEN and MCI are all nice cities, they lack high yielding O/D traffic and international exposure.

Quoting sunking737 (Reply 19):

Seriously? Seriously? The East and West pilots can't even get their crap together and now the toss in the F9/Rejet pilot groups?

If management saw value in a merger, they wouldn't care how many factions of pilot groups were involved. The pilots have gotten themselves so deep into litigation, the company can't just sit around and wait for it to be solved. If a situation presents itself, Parker will jump on it.

IADLHR · Fri Oct 14, 2011 3:54 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 14):

I think US would rather wait and pounce on AA, what does Republic give them MKE and DEN?..

Perhaps, US is trying to apply pressure on AA to do something, just about anything.

Transpac787 · Fri Oct 14, 2011 4:37 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 5):
The yields there are terrible, I can see them moving those assets away from DEN to PHX or to try and build up a hub someplace else.

So they should move assets away from DEN, where WN is huge...... to PHX, where WN is huge??

usflyer msp · Fri Oct 14, 2011 4:47 pm

I doubt this rumour is true. US is not interested in a smaller carrier like F9 that:

a) has a non-existent international network
b) involved in a bloodbath at DEN
c) involved in a bloodbath in a tertiary market like MKE
d) only profitable because of its capacity purchase agreements with other major carriers (which would likely end under US ownership).

enilria · Fri Oct 14, 2011 4:52 pm

Quoting sccutler (Reply 3):

End Republic's long, smoldering nightmare?

At least the Frontier folks will be preserved from the living hell that would have ensued, had they been reduced to working for Southwest.

(grin)

Good one

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 25):
I doubt this rumour is true. US is not interested in a smaller carrier like F9 that:

a) has a non-existent international network
b) involved in a bloodbath at DEN
c) involved in a bloodbath in a tertiary market like MKE
d) only profitable because of its capacity purchase agreements with other major carriers (which would likely end under US ownership).

I imagine the justification is not unlike smothering your grandma...not for the inheritance, but because she was annoying.

stlgph · Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:03 pm

US Airways wouldn't be interested in Milwaukee or Denver operations.
there's one thing of interest - airplanes.
that's where it begins, that's where it ends.

DFW36L · Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:09 pm

If they were to acquire Republic Holdings and not just F9, then they would wholly-own at least one of every other mainline carrier's express carrier, which could at minimum provoke Scope issues, and could definitely create resistance of the other mainline carriers towards renewing any Republic/Chautauqua/Shuttle Capacity Purchase Agreements. And that's the part of Republic that actually makes money.

What a headache!

stlgph · Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:12 pm

Quoting DFW36L (Reply 28):

i'd suspect Republic would sell off Frontier and its 190's, and keep the other parts afloat.

roseflyer · Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:19 pm

With the yield chasing that US has done since the merger, I would imagine acquiring Frontier would end up with DEN, MCI and MKE all being just a spoke in the network in 3 years. US closed PIT and LAS because of yields. DEN is pretty much the lowest yield airport in the country with the WN, F9, UA war. LAS is one of the highest O/D airports in the country, but US turned it over to Southwest. MKE doesn't have a whole lot ot offer and I don't imagine MCI being much better. The old US gave up on IND and PIT. Hubs for the purpose of connecting traffic are gone (PIT, STL, IND, MEM, CVG, BNA, RDU, etc). They need to be high O/D markets. DEN is high O/D but is in a fare war. MKE and MCI are too small.

flyby519 · Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:29 pm

Quoting stlgph (Reply 27):
US Airways wouldn't be interested in Milwaukee or Denver operations.
there's one thing of interest - airplanes.
that's where it begins, that's where it ends.

Im too lazy to look, but is it F9 that had a big order for the C-series? Do they have some NEOs on the way as well?

FutureFO · Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:39 pm

It is not F9 and their 190's or C-Series. It is Republic's 190's and C-Series.

stlgph · Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:39 pm

Quoting flyby519 (Reply 31):

c-series 2015, neo's late decade ......... allegedly

rampart · Fri Oct 14, 2011 6:01 pm

Conjecture du jour, but I'll comment on these few. It's not the worst rumor I've ever heard.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 5):
Why would they want Denver? It's too close to PHX not to be redundant and DEN is in a unsustainable three way battle.

Why did WN want DEN? It's too close to PHX not to be redundant. Oh, wait....

Quoting STT757 (Reply 9):
That would be nice, better to be #1 in St. Louis than #3 in Denver.

Adding the mass of US, who's to say they'd be #3 down the road? Co-existing with UA, might it be like the AA-B6 arrangement in JFK?

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 16):

Split the difference, abandon the F9 hub at DEN, don't waste time with the STL hub, just build up the former YX hub at MCI. Heck, US had a code share deal with Mesa at MCI for years covering many, many rural areas around MCI.

MCI wasn't successful as a hub for US, or EA before that, with the same Mesa codeshares. It seems to have possibilities as a small hub if done right. STL would have better potential, and DEN is better equiped.

Quoting swalifebtw (Reply 15):
So I guess someone could start a thread: "New Frontier/Republic/USAirways Part 28" LMAO

Why is it LMAO? Pretty remarkable that the issue has held interest long enough for something over 7000 comments.

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 24):

So they should move assets away from DEN, where WN is huge...... to PHX, where WN is huge??

US is also huge in PHX, and the PHX market is huge. It sustains 2 airline hubs.

-Rampart

stlgph · Fri Oct 14, 2011 6:11 pm

Quoting rampart (Reply 34):
Why is it LMAO? Pretty remarkable that the issue has held interest long enough for something over 7000 comments.

7000 comments - how many employees does Frontier have?

HPRamper · Fri Oct 14, 2011 6:20 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 26):
I imagine the justification is not unlike smothering your grandma...not for the inheritance, but because she was annoying.

I would think, if not carefully managed, US+F9 could be more helpful to WN than anyone else.

F9 is DEN, and as DEN goes, F9 goes. There is really nowhere else for F9 to go. US has a much bigger network in which to spread aircraft around. It's within the realm of possibility that US would reduce DEN to move aircraft east, opening up more O&D for WN to snatch up.

Quoting rampart (Reply 34):
Why did WN want DEN? It's too close to PHX not to be redundant. Oh, wait....

They are just oh so close.

In fact, they are a whole nine miles closer to one another than the WN megastations of BWI and MDW. And eleven miles further apart than MDW-ATL.

That said, if we are addressing holes in the US network, DEN is in a much better position than PHX to connect dots currently not served - places like BIL, FAR, FSD. HP used to serve BIL via Mesa...on an RJ, PHX-BIL cannot be very fun, and I don't even hate RJs.

Thus the only hole left in the domestic network would be in the upper Great Lakes region, and maybe US would drop the UA codeshare (and *A) for a new one with AA to take care of that.

GentFromAlaska · Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:28 pm

I suspect someone may be running rumors about an analyst interview I saw on Fox Business News yesterday. The timing of this thread would support it. An analyst mentioned there will be more airline consolidation. F9 and US were not mentioned. AA and bankruptcy were

hiflyer · Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:49 pm

Didn't US have a deal with one of the pilot groups on E190/Cr9 flying?

Agree on have US not swallowed pilots yet...why compound it...unless benefits outweigh potential labor issues.

So someone has to make a move...RAH/F9 in trouble...AMR in trouble....either could be a cheap takeover if worth it.

Some one is floating 'what if's' out to the public it appears...fishing?

Or is there another group that USAir is trying to preempt? More likely methinks.....

flyby519 · Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:03 pm

Quoting Hiflyer (Reply 38):
Didn't US have a deal with one of the pilot groups on E190/Cr9 flying?

Was that the Mid-Atlantic pilots who were furloughed and Republic was given E170s as a part of a jets-for-jobs program for that pilot group?

gdg9 · Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:28 pm

Quoting PlaneAdmirer (Reply 20):
How about adding "Unconfirmed, unsubstantianted rumor:" to the beginning of this thread title?

Fair enough.

ScottB · Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:52 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 36):
Quoting rampart (Reply 34):
Why did WN want DEN? It's too close to PHX not to be redundant. Oh, wait....

They are just oh so close.

In fact, they are a whole nine miles closer to one another than the WN megastations of BWI and MDW. And eleven miles further apart than MDW-ATL.

Except BWI & MDW or MDW & ATL (take your pick) have a heck of a lot more population in the regions separating them than DEN & PHX.

And as for why WN would want to build up DEN in addition to PHX & LAS? It was the big hole in their route network west of the Mississippi. Having large stations near each other isn't as big a concern since the network isn't built primarily to optimize connecting traffic flows. A legacy wouldn't operate something like SNA-OAK because it would damage their LAX-SFO traffic.

Quoting gdg9 (Thread starter):
Anyone heard this one yet? US Airways looking to acquire Republic Holdings and get their hands on Frontiers A319s, A320s and DEN, MKE hub operations

Considering the effect of Frontier branded operations on RAH's market capitalization, I'd think RAH would have to PAY US Airways to take Frontier.

yellowtail · Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:45 pm

Where is Mariner and his little dicky birds when you need him?

etops1 · Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:16 pm

This is pure BS. Enough said. This thread is a waist of time .

mariner · Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:22 pm

Quoting etops1 (Reply 43):

This is pure BS. Enough said. This thread is a waist of time .

I wish I had a buck for every time this rumor has been posted on a.net, though.

mariner

einsteinboricua · Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:58 pm

I don't see any benefit in acquiring F9 except to take down another competitor or to build up a bit.

Quoting PlaneAdmirer (Reply 20):
Unconfirmed, unsubstantianted rumor

A little vocabulary lesson: if something is a rumor, it's already unconfirmed.

NASCARAirforce · Sat Oct 15, 2011 2:22 am

Lets hope not. Frontier is what keeps spotting still interesting in this country. US Airways planes are boring - unless they bring in a football, retro or state flag plane.

LambertMan · Sat Oct 15, 2011 2:28 am

If this happens then Dougie has lost his marbles....and quite possibly his job.

Denver in its own right is over saturated and doesn't offer any strategic gain while Milwaukee is a money pit.

I do, however, think that there will be one more major consolidation before the dust settles and I imagine US would be involved.

NASCARAirforce · Sat Oct 15, 2011 2:36 am

Quoting Lambertman (Reply 47):
I do, however, think that there will be one more major consolidation before the dust settles and I imagine US would be involved.

Maybe we should just consolidate every remaining airline in the US into one giant airline and call it Ameroflot.

enilria · Sat Oct 15, 2011 2:48 am

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 36):
Quoting enilria (Reply 26):
I imagine the justification is not unlike smothering your grandma...not for the inheritance, but because she was annoying.

I would think, if not carefully managed, US+F9 could be more helpful to WN than anyone else.

F9 is DEN, and as DEN goes, F9 goes. There is really nowhere else for F9 to go. US has a much bigger network in which to spread aircraft around. It's within the realm of possibility that US would reduce DEN to move aircraft east, opening up more O&D for WN to snatch up.

US has no desire to increase their overlap with WN, they would only do this if they wanted the fleet and I doubt they would since the E190s largely came from US and A319s are not so hard to find.

Apart from F9, there is the possibility they would want the Regional operation, but I'm not sure why.

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