sam1987
Topic Author
Posts: 550
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BA Announce LGW-NCE, LGW-ALG & Cut LGW-CAG

Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:06 pm

According to timetables on ba.com, BA will be launching LGW to NCE and LGW to ALG in summer 2012.

To make way for the above, here is the bad news:
- Suspension of LGW to CAG
- Suspension of early morning MAN to LGW (so no nightstop aircraft)
- Frequency reductions on BOD, FAO, FCO, PRN and TIR
Next flights: LGW-LBA-LGW, LHR-SIN-SYD, SYD-BKK-LHR, LGW-GRO, GRO-CIA, CIA-MAD, MAD-LGW
 
skipness1E
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RE: BA Announce LGW-NCE, LGW-ALG & Cut LGW-CAG

Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:19 pm

Sam your jumping the gun, these are provisional schedules.......
 
sam1987
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RE: BA Announce LGW-NCE, LGW-ALG & Cut LGW-CAG

Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:21 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 1):
these are provisional schedules.......

Just checked and LGW to NCE and ALG are up for sale on ba.com....
Next flights: LGW-LBA-LGW, LHR-SIN-SYD, SYD-BKK-LHR, LGW-GRO, GRO-CIA, CIA-MAD, MAD-LGW
 
skipness1E
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RE: BA Announce LGW-NCE, LGW-ALG & Cut LGW-CAG

Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:09 pm

Yes Sam I mean the suspension of the MAN rotation part.
 
AIR MALTA
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RE: BA Announce LGW-NCE, LGW-ALG & Cut LGW-CAG

Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:37 pm

- Nice is getting 3 daily flights. Nice would have 12 daily flights to London some days.
- Faro is reduce to 1 daily.
- Algiers is being transferred from LHR. This is a bit weird as I thought ALG might have good yields. That means we won't see Tunis at LHR either.
- Rome is cut from 14 weekly to 10 weekly.
- Manchester reduces from 4 daily to 3 daily.
- Bordeaux reduced from 14 to 12 weekly.
- Tirana goes from daily to 5 weekly.
- Pristina goes from 5 to 3 weekly.

I hope BA will come up with new destinations to make up for these reductions.
Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
 
sam1987
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RE: BA Announce LGW-NCE, LGW-ALG & Cut LGW-CAG

Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:46 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 3):
I mean the suspension of the MAN rotation part.

All up for sale on ba.com.

This surprises me as the first MAN to LGW service will arrive at 0920, which is too late to connect to the first long haul departure (to UVF at 1010). Also, the last LGW to MAN service will depart at 1630, which is far too early for those passengers arriving from MLE, as the MLE flight lands at 1825....

Arriving into LGW at 0920 and departing at 1630 is no good for daytrippers - if you're a Manchester based businessman who wants to do business in Brighton, for example.
Next flights: LGW-LBA-LGW, LHR-SIN-SYD, SYD-BKK-LHR, LGW-GRO, GRO-CIA, CIA-MAD, MAD-LGW
 
skipness1E
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RE: BA Announce LGW-NCE, LGW-ALG & Cut LGW-CAG

Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:57 pm

I give up! Tis not quite the full and finalised verdion but hey ho! My point is that the final summer schedule will not be the one on ba.com the previous October. If the night stopper goes then not sure how LGW-MAN remains viable.
 
sam1987
Topic Author
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RE: BA Announce LGW-NCE, LGW-ALG & Cut LGW-CAG

Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:04 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 6):
I give up! Tis not quite the full and finalised verdion but hey ho! My point is that the final summer schedule will not be the one on ba.com the previous October. If the night stopper goes then not sure how LGW-MAN remains viable.

You're probably right.... but why would BA sell seats for an unfinalised timetable?

If easyJet can confirm their summer 2012 timetable in October, why can't anyone else?
Next flights: LGW-LBA-LGW, LHR-SIN-SYD, SYD-BKK-LHR, LGW-GRO, GRO-CIA, CIA-MAD, MAD-LGW
 
AIR MALTA
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Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2001 6:45 am

RE: BA Announce LGW-NCE, LGW-ALG & Cut LGW-CAG

Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:06 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 6):
I give up! Tis not quite the full and finalised verdion but hey ho! My point is that the final summer schedule will not be the one on ba.com the previous October. If the night stopper goes then not sure how LGW-MAN remains viable.

I agree with you... But it is nice to discuss ans speculate, no?!

If ALG is now listed as operating from LHR, I do not think we might see the situation reversed, right?
Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
 
deltapapa
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RE: BA Announce LGW-NCE, LGW-ALG & Cut LGW-CAG

Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:59 am

Should the final edition reveal that the early morning MAN - LGW service is indeed suspended then this a yet another blow for pax connecting onto LGW services.

Perhaps BA propose that us up north can either fly down the night before and incure additional overnight hotel costs or transit to LGW via LHR!!!!

As has been said above, it makes travel with BA even less attractive.
 
richardw
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RE: BA Announce LGW-NCE, LGW-ALG & Cut LGW-CAG

Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:44 am

The NCE service is planned to night stop at NCE, are they hoping for some Club class feed from NCE for their LGW long hauls?
 
JoKeR
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RE: BA Announce LGW-NCE, LGW-ALG & Cut LGW-CAG

Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:53 am

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 4):
I hope BA will come up with new destinations to make up for these reductions.

Resumption of BEG perhaps?
 
richardw
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RE: BA Announce LGW-NCE, LGW-ALG & Cut LGW-CAG

Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:46 am

BEG is currently served by a codeshare with Malev with a connection at BUD.
 
steve6666
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RE: BA Announce LGW-NCE, LGW-ALG & Cut LGW-CAG

Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:36 pm

Quoting sam1987 (Reply 5):
Arriving into LGW at 0920 and departing at 1630 is no good for daytrippers - if you're a Manchester based businessman who wants to do business in Brighton, for example.

You would have to be an absolute loon in the first place to do anything other than take the train (2h08m from Piccadilly to Euston, less from Crewe/Stockport/Macclesfield/Stoke) then an hour on the Thameslink to Brighton. Total time likely to be the same but train frequencies much higher and cost not really an issue.

If push really came to shove you could get a car from LHR to Brighton in an hour.
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mainMAN
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RE: BA Announce LGW-NCE, LGW-ALG & Cut LGW-CAG

Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:45 pm

Quoting steve6666 (Reply 13):
You would have to be an absolute loon in the first place to do anything other than take the train (2h08m from Piccadilly to Euston, less from Crewe/Stockport/Macclesfield/Stoke) then an hour on the Thameslink to Brighton.

Oh 'ere we go again!   

Where do you get on a Thameslink train at Euston?

I use MAN - LGW occasionally for a variety of reasons..........one of which is that it's easier to park at MAN T3 than Stockport, where I can never find a space.
 
trintocan
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RE: BA Announce LGW-NCE, LGW-ALG & Cut LGW-CAG

Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:13 pm

Quoting mainMAN (Reply 14):

Where do you get on a Thameslink train at Euston?

Not at Euston but you can get the Thameslink at St. Pancras International, which is just a couple minutes away by Northern Line (southbound) or Victoria Line (northbound - the only destination pair on the Tube with such an anomaly of connections) or you could walk between the two in less than 10 minutes.

The increase to NCE is interesting, has there been a major surge in demand for it?

It would indeed be a bit of a blow for MAN to lose some connectivity at LGW but it appears that BA is focusing connecting traffic at LHR and running LGW routes as mostly stand-alones.

Trintocan.
Hop to it, fly for life!
 
Sketty222
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RE: BA Announce LGW-NCE, LGW-ALG & Cut LGW-CAG

Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:29 pm

Quoting steve6666 (Reply 13):
You would have to be an absolute loon in the first place to do anything other than take the train (2h08m from Piccadilly to Euston, less from Crewe/Stockport/Macclesfield/Stoke) then an hour on the Thameslink to Brighton. Total time likely to be the same but train frequencies much higher and cost not really an issue.

If push really came to shove you could get a car from LHR to Brighton in an hour.

Just looked at 29th Nov (MON) and the train was £210 based on a 4.5hr 2 stop round trip whereas a flight MAN-LGW plus the train journey (non-stop btw) from LGW-BTN was £130. The air + train journey was a time of 3.5hrs on average, so quicker and cheaper.

There were other time options as well but most came out cheaper than the train
There's flying and then there's flying
 
planesarecool
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RE: BA Announce LGW-NCE, LGW-ALG & Cut LGW-CAG

Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:52 am

Quoting sam1987 (Reply 5):
This surprises me as the first MAN to LGW service will arrive at 0920, which is too late to connect to the first long haul departure (to UVF at 1010).

Is it?

Aside from the fact they have 7-8 other long haul flights in the 2-3 hours after that, I'd say 50 minutes is enough time to connect from BA to BA in the North Terminal.
 
skipness1E
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RE: BA Announce LGW-NCE, LGW-ALG & Cut LGW-CAG

Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:10 am

Quoting planesarecool (Reply 17):
I'd say 50 minutes is enough time to connect from BA to BA in the North Terminal.

I wouldn't try it to the Carribbean as flights are not daily to many of the destinations and 50 minutes means my bags might not make the flight.
 
vv701
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RE: BA Announce LGW-NCE, LGW-ALG & Cut LGW-CAG

Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:23 am

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 18):
I wouldn't try it to the Carribbean as flights are not daily to many of the destinations and 50 minutes means my bags might not make the flight.

This is true for most of BA's Caribbean flights. But the flight in question on this occasion, the BA2159 LGW-UVF-POS departing at 1010, currently operates daily and will continue to do so when the Winter Schedules start. So if your bags are not transferred in time from the MAN flight all being well you should still get them the next day.
 
AIR MALTA
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RE: BA Announce LGW-NCE, LGW-ALG & Cut LGW-CAG

Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:32 am

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 18):
I wouldn't try it to the Carribbean as flights are not daily to many of the destinations and 50 minutes means my bags might not make the flight.

Same goes to flights to Tunis... It is impossible to have same day connections to Tunis services from the regions in winter or summer. I know many that have switched to AF or LH. Pitty!
Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
 
richardw
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RE: BA Announce LGW-NCE, LGW-ALG & Cut LGW-CAG

Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:33 am

NCE-LGW-UVF 7:05-8.05 tfr 10.10-13.45 works nicely though.
 
AIR MALTA
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RE: BA Announce LGW-NCE, LGW-ALG & Cut LGW-CAG

Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:24 am

Quoting richardw (Reply 21):
NCE-LGW-UVF 7:05-8.05 tfr 10.10-13.45 works nicely though.

I think the general policy for LGW operations is to have the least night stop overs for the crews. This makes early connections at LGW from oustations very difficult!
Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
 
GT4EZY
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RE: BA Announce LGW-NCE, LGW-ALG & Cut LGW-CAG

Fri Oct 21, 2011 4:14 pm

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 22):
I think the general policy for LGW operations is to have the least night stop overs for the crews. This makes early connections at LGW from oustations very difficult!

Seriously guys, nightstopping crews is rarely a deal breaker for airlines. If airlines find it makes sense to nightstop crews.......they will nightstop crews. It doesn't cost that much when you see how much they pay for hotels. No airline will nightstop crews for no reason, there has to be some basis for it. Of course, some airlines will actively try not to nightstop such as the LCC's but even then most of those carriers will nightstop when there is a requirement. Easyjet for example have around 8 nightstopping aircraft and I think there would be more if it wasn't for the bases in CDG, MXP, LGW etc which allow optimum timings for the business day. And remember that airlines of all types often have crew in hotels each and every night who are operating out of base and/or training.

It just reminds me of a topic about LCC long haul a while back where posters were coming up with weird and wonderful transatlantic routings to avoid nightstopping crew even though that type of blue sky thinking would have had the route uneconomical from the word go.
Proud to fly from Manchester!
 
jet72uk
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RE: BA Announce LGW-NCE, LGW-ALG & Cut LGW-CAG

Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:16 pm

I find the decision to cut CAG bizarre. Flights were often full and not cheap. 3x NCE daily is also odd and then the move of ALG from LHR. BA never cease to amaze.....
 
richardw
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RE: BA Announce LGW-NCE, LGW-ALG & Cut LGW-CAG

Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:46 pm

Quoting jet72uk (Reply 24):
I find the decision to cut CAG bizarre. Flights were often full and not cheap.

My guess is that allocations of seats on the CAG flights may have been bought by tour operators.
 
vv701
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RE: BA Announce LGW-NCE, LGW-ALG & Cut LGW-CAG

Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:20 am

The problem is that it is very difficult to determine the nature of BA's current business and even more difficult to determine the nature of any contracts they might have just obtained that will significantly impact future business. This is particularly true of flights to and from LGW where the ratio of recreational to business travel is much higher than at LHR.

Let me suggest a possible scenario for the reduction in LGW-FCO and the increase in LGW-NCE flights.

It would seem to me that BA may have significant business on the LON-FCO route provided to them by one or more cruise companies. (For example the BA Source at http://thebasource.com/ reports that on 3 October 2011 two BA 763s operated LHR-FCO-LHR charter flights and that there was an exactly similar charter rotation on 5 September. And it is certainly at least possible that these flights were carrying passengers to and from cruise liners.)

So it is certainly at least possible that the current LGW-FCO service is partially dependent on bookings from a cruise company. If that company chose to change its 2012 cruise programme and board and disembark passengers at either Nice or Monte Carlo instead of Rome, then . . .

Alternatively, since U2 also operates LGW-FCO, BA may be reducing capacity on that route because of competition. The introduction of the LGW-NCE service could be entirely unrelated.

Why might BA move their ALG service from LHR to LGW? It is possible that this may have more to do with another route than it has the LHR-ALG flights.

Many will remember what happened when the EU/US Open Skies agreement came into force. BA needed to remain competitive with American airlines that were moving flights from LGW to LHR. One way BA gained the necessary LHR slots they needed to do this was by moving all their LHR-WAW flights to LGW. But by the end of that Summer Season they had obtained more suitable LHR slots. So they promptly moved their WAW flights back to LHR.

I have no idea why BA chose to shuffle flights to WAW rather than any other destination in this way. Perhaps it was all down not to the fact that it was WAW but because of the timing of the LHR slots . But what happened then illustrates that with LHR significantly slot-constrained, BA may well move flights between LHR and LGW for reasons that are not very obvious.
 
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FlyCaledonian
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RE: BA Announce LGW-NCE, LGW-ALG & Cut LGW-CAG

Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:48 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 26):
Why might BA move their ALG service from LHR to LGW? It is possible that this may have more to do with another route than it has the LHR-ALG flights.

Exactly. A lot of the traffic may be O&D, so if it doesn't add a significant amount of feed to the LHR longhaul network BA may believe it is better to move the flight to LGW and use the LHR slot for something else.

In addition, it may be that BA can channel some of the traffic that would have gone to the USA with BA via LHR to go via MAD with IB instead. As both BA and IB are part of IAG, it makes sense to consider MAD and LHR as IAG hubs, rather than LHR as a BA hub and MAD as a IB hub.
Let's Go British Caledonian!
 
vv701
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RE: BA Announce LGW-NCE, LGW-ALG & Cut LGW-CAG

Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:47 pm

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 27):

In addition, it may be that BA can channel some of the traffic that would have gone to the USA with BA via LHR to go via MAD with IB instead.

Even with the ALG-LHR flight operating and the hourly AA/BA LHR-JFK shuttle, in the current timetable the ALG-MAD-JFK route offers a 1 hr 15 min time saving over the quickest ALG-LHR-JFK flights.
 
edina
Posts: 585
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RE: BA Announce LGW-NCE, LGW-ALG & Cut LGW-CAG

Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:42 am

Quoting steve6666 (Reply 13):
If push really came to shove you could get a car from LHR to Brighton in an hour.

A tad optimistic  

LHR T5 to the Royal Pavillion (i.e. end of the A23) is 64 miles & unless you're doing the journey at 0300 & breaking every speed limit there's no way you'd do it in an hour.....
Worked on - Caravelle Mercure A300 A320 F27 SD3-60 BAe146 747-100/200/400 DC10-30 767 777 737-400 757 A319 A321
 
vv701
Posts: 5895
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RE: BA Announce LGW-NCE, LGW-ALG & Cut LGW-CAG

Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:28 am

Quoting edina (Reply 29):
A tad optimistic

  

Quoting edina (Reply 29):
LHR T5 to the Royal Pavillion (i.e. end of the A23) is 64 miles & unless you're doing the journey at 0300 & breaking every speed limit there's no way you'd do it in an hour.....

I frequently drive round the M25 past T5 and then down the M23 and A23 before turning east on to A27 short of the Pavillion but nevertheless after crossing into Brighton. Occasionally it has taken over 2 hours and once more than 3 hours to drive from near T5 to the A27 turn. But I have done it in a little under an hour on several occasions in both directions (but never at within 5 hours of 3.00 am).

So a tad optimistic? Very definitely 'Yes'. But driving a route where the speed limit for more than the 60 of those 61 miles is 70 mph is certainly theoretically possible without breaking that speed limit. Further (except that first three-quarters of a mile from T5 to the M25) it is in my own experience that it is somtimes practically possible again without exceeding any speed limit. Indeed last Saturday around lunchtime I made that very journey in almost exactly an hour.

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