jetdeltamsy
Posts: 2688
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RE: US Fires 3 At PHL Over Buddy Pass Scheme

Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:10 am

Perhaps I should remain quiet about this, but i'm counting on anonynimity keeeping me safe.

At AA, we sell D3's to people who are friends of employees. I once helped a ground of AA'ers and their church group get to Haiti......

Now at AA, D3's, or buddy passes, are far from free. Unlike most airlines, there is a cost to the traveller, but it's usually $100s of less than published fares.

I think I sold my D3 for $75.00.

It's a very common practice and in my time here i've heard nothing about it being taboo.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
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mayor
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RE: US Fires 3 At PHL Over Buddy Pass Scheme

Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:10 am

Quoting jetdeltamsy (Reply 50):
Perhaps I should remain quiet about this, but i'm counting on anonynimity keeeping me safe.

At AA, we sell D3's to people who are friends of employees. I once helped a ground of AA'ers and their church group get to Haiti......

Now at AA, D3's, or buddy passes, are far from free. Unlike most airlines, there is a cost to the traveller, but it's usually $100s of less than published fares.

I think I sold my D3 for $75.00.

It's a very common practice and in my time here i've heard nothing about it being taboo.

See, this is where the confusion lies and maybe it's just the difference between the airlines.....At DL, "buddy passes" are basically purchased by whoever the employee wishes to give them to......i.e. anyone that doesn't qualify for any sort of regular pass. Family members, companions, employees, etc. wouldn't need to buy a buddy pass but anyone else might want to. The fare that the purchaser pays is basically a "yield" fare based on whatever the yield is for each particular route. For MEM-ORD, for instance, you might pay $50 one way, for each passenger.

Employees at DL don't pay for any regular passes that they use, except for an annual $50 fee.

Now, as far as "selling" buddy passes, at DL it is expressly forbidden for the employee to take money for them. In turn, the purchaser would then have to turn around and pay for the yield fare on top of whatever they paid to the employee. The employee cannot use the passes for personal gain.

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 48):
Encouraging people to fly on buddy passes - which are the lowest standby priority - these days is cruel and unusual punishment. I just made the mistake of trying to fly on a Zed pass from PDX-MSP and it took me 27 hours and a night of sleeping on the floor at SLC. One family, mom and kids, had been stuck at PDX for over two days before they finally got back to DTW as something close to 15 consecutive flights were overbooked. The airlines do not WANT standby pax these days. Buddy passes are a relic of a past system where there were plenty of seats to go around and as such they aren't worth much at face value which is why these chumps at US tried to finangle the system for their benefit.

Anyone that I plan to give buddy passes to, is told by me, whatever pitfalls there might be in using them, including being stranded at an airport and maybe not being able to travel when they want to. If, after this explanation, they don't understand it, I usually, kindly, withdraw my offer as I can see trouble brewing if they were to go ahead and use them. I have yet to have anyone that I've given passes to, either have any trouble or cause any trouble.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
LONGisland89
Posts: 560
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2006 3:34 am

RE: US Fires 3 At PHL Over Buddy Pass Scheme

Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:39 am

Quoting jetdeltamsy (Reply 50):
Perhaps I should remain quiet about this, but i'm counting on anonynimity keeeping me safe.

At AA, we sell D3's to people who are friends of employees. I once helped a ground of AA'ers and their church group get to Haiti......

Now at AA, D3's, or buddy passes, are far from free. Unlike most airlines, there is a cost to the traveller, but it's usually $100s of less than published fares.

I think I sold my D3 for $75.00.

It's a very common practice and in my time here i've heard nothing about it being taboo.

AA prohibits employees from making a profit, as long as you're ''selling'' the D3's at the listed NRSA charges, then you should be fine. But lets say your aunt's neighbor wants to fly JFK-MIA-JFK. So you add them (if you have room) to your traveler list and you charge them $200 (with the possibility of getting F class). Seems like a good deal for that person right? Well, you are breaking AA's non-rev policy (as JFK-MIA-JFK for D3s is $113.28) and you are making a profit. But who's going to find out? In my situation, I just wait till the D3 traveler is done traveling and then request repayment for the cost they incurred. That way, unexpected traveling can be added (say your traveler had to fly MIA-DFW-JFK instead of direct because of loads).
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: US Fires 3 At PHL Over Buddy Pass Scheme

Wed Oct 26, 2011 6:30 am

Quoting LONGisland89 (Reply 52):
Quoting jetdeltamsy (Reply 50):
Perhaps I should remain quiet about this, but i'm counting on anonynimity keeeping me safe.

At AA, we sell D3's to people who are friends of employees. I once helped a ground of AA'ers and their church group get to Haiti......

Now at AA, D3's, or buddy passes, are far from free. Unlike most airlines, there is a cost to the traveller, but it's usually $100s of less than published fares.

I think I sold my D3 for $75.00.

It's a very common practice and in my time here i've heard nothing about it being taboo.

AA prohibits employees from making a profit, as long as you're ''selling'' the D3's at the listed NRSA charges, then you should be fine.

Not sure if I'm reading this the same way, so perhaps jetdeltamsy can elaborate - are you simply charging the traveler what the D3 pass would cost you directly to redeem, or are you charging them to "buy" a D3 pass from you, which then has a separate out-of-pocket cost to the traveler?

Reason I ask - at AS, our guest passes are essentially ID90s - you get 20 one-way guest passes annually, and can give them to whomever you want. They're redeemed as e-discount codes, and the traveler can list for flights and pay for their fare on alaskaair.com - they just enter the discount code in the box at the start of the booking path, and the computer knows to make it into a non-rev listing at 90% off the YASR1 fare in the market.

Now if AS required the employee to actually do the purchase of a guest pass for the intended traveler, it would be absolutely proper for them to be reimbursed for the amount it cost. That's not how it works, though - the traveler actually pays for it themselves online, so there's no "cost" to the employee, other than having burned up one of their 20 annual one-way guest passes.

But if any AS employee actually accepted payment for the privilege of using that one-way guest pass discount code, THAT would be a violation of company policy and subject to disciplinary action.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
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mayor
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RE: US Fires 3 At PHL Over Buddy Pass Scheme

Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:46 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 53):
Not sure if I'm reading this the same way, so perhaps jetdeltamsy can elaborate - are you simply charging the traveler what the D3 pass would cost you directly to redeem, or are you charging them to "buy" a D3 pass from you, which then has a separate out-of-pocket cost to the traveler?

Reason I ask - at AS, our guest passes are essentially ID90s - you get 20 one-way guest passes annually, and can give them to whomever you want. They're redeemed as e-discount codes, and the traveler can list for flights and pay for their fare on alaskaair.com - they just enter the discount code in the box at the start of the booking path, and the computer knows to make it into a non-rev listing at 90% off the YASR1 fare in the market.

Now if AS required the employee to actually do the purchase of a guest pass for the intended traveler, it would be absolutely proper for them to be reimbursed for the amount it cost. That's not how it works, though - the traveler actually pays for it themselves online, so there's no "cost" to the employee, other than having burned up one of their 20 annual one-way guest passes.

But if any AS employee actually accepted payment for the privilege of using that one-way guest pass discount code, THAT would be a violation of company policy and subject to disciplinary action.

Sounds to me like they are selling the passes and on top of that, the purchaser is also having to pay the discounted fare. At DL that would be a violation. According to your description, AS' plan sounds much like DL's. The only difference is that the purchasing has to be done thru the employee travel website on DL even though the traveller is doing the purchasing. Used to be much worse......the buddy passes were actual physical coupons that you had to have signed by the traveller and then take into the nearest DL ticket office and do the purchasing.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: US Fires 3 At PHL Over Buddy Pass Scheme

Wed Oct 26, 2011 6:23 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 54):
According to your description, AS' plan sounds much like DL's. The only difference is that the purchasing has to be done thru the employee travel website on DL even though the traveller is doing the purchasing.

In a way, doing it the DL way would be an improvement - the AS method is easy since it allows the user to buy their pass on alaskaair.com, but it's done in the normal booking path and "feels" like a regular revenue booking. Of course the usual disclaimers about non-rev travel are there, but do they read them? Hell no.

And that's what ultimately causes problems at the airport when the flight goes out full, without them - all they understand is that they paid money for a ticket online and now they're not going. So naturally, an argument ensues with those who haven't been fully briefed on just what "non-rev" means. But again, they say, "Whaddya mean, 'non-revenue'? I paid money!"
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
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mayor
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RE: US Fires 3 At PHL Over Buddy Pass Scheme

Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:03 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 55):
And that's what ultimately causes problems at the airport when the flight goes out full, without them - all they understand is that they paid money for a ticket online and now they're not going. So naturally, an argument ensues with those who haven't been fully briefed on just what "non-rev" means. But again, they say, "Whaddya mean, 'non-revenue'? I paid money!"

Well, I make it perfectly clear that they are flying standby and who goes before them. So far, everyone has understood what I was talking about. But you know as well as I do that they hear what they want to hear.....kinda like teenagers.  
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen

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