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PanAm_DC10
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Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 6:25 am

Breaking news from live media conference - Qantas to ground entire airline and initiate union lock out.

108 aircraft to be grounded
JetStar, QantasLink and JetConnect continue to operate as normal
From 8pm AEDT on 31/10 Qantas will lock out all employees who will be covered by the new ALAEA, TWU and AIPA agreement.

Source Qantas

[Edited 2011-10-28 23:41:25]

http://www.qantas.com.au/regions/dyn.../details?ArticleID=2011/oct11/5218


[Edited 2011-10-29 04:07:11 by moderators]
Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
 
ABpositive
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RE: Breaking: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 6:39 am

Will the RAAF be stepping in again with their aircrafts? Back in 1989 during the last pilots' dispute, my colleague travelled with a Hercules.
 
flood
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RE: Breaking: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 6:41 am

"Qantas will lock out all its employees covered by the agreements that are currently in dispute.

And it has grounded its entire domestic and international fleets indefinitely.

Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce says the airline will lock out staff until the unions withdraw their extreme claim and reach agreeement with us.

The lock out will begin at 8pm AEDT on Monday."

http://www.theage.com.au/national/qa...-out-employees-20111029-1mpar.html

Wow.
 
Dehowie
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RE:

Sat Oct 29, 2011 6:45 am

What a disgrace of a CEO.
Everyone from one end of the company to the other is in the wrong but it's ok to get a 5 million dollar payrise.
The best thing from Qantas would be for Joyce to be sacked immediately.
Amazing every employee in the company must be wrong and he is right..lol.
What a disgrace of a management team.
With his plan of off shoring jobs and self managed multiple million dollar payrises to management it's apparent he is on a mission to destroy what was one of the worlds great airlines.
A disgrace of a CEO
2EOS1DX,EF14.2.8LII,17TS,85/1.2,16-35L,24-70LII,24L,70-200F2.8LII,100-400,300/400/500/800L
 
weebie
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RE:

Sat Oct 29, 2011 6:56 am

Brilliant move in my opinion. It's crunch time now for the Unions.

Top Australian businessmen would never work in Australia. They go to the UK, Asia or America.An import is needed.
 
Australis
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RE:

Sat Oct 29, 2011 6:58 am

Is this the best Mr.Joyce could do now??

Im still wondering how long before we know the true intentions of the Qantas board and say that Jetstar will be taking over the Qantas brand, the jetstar cost structure and labour costs are the ones that will take precedences, etc, etc, etc???

Seriously, just tell the bloody truth...
 
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BNE
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:04 am

I think Alan Joyce had to do something, but I am not sure if he is going about it the right way.

Sounds like Alan Joyce and his $5,000,000 pay cheque has been cleared by the bank.

Alan Joyce will not last the year.

This does not effect Qantaslink, Jetconnect(transtasman) or Jetstar.

Virgin Australia must be loving Qantas at the moment.
Why fly non stop when you can connect
 
TN486
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RE:

Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:05 am

]

Quoting weebie (Reply 5):
Brilliant move in my opinion. It's crunch time now for the Unions

I fully agree with you. This will bring matters to a head, and I expect wiser heads will prevail.

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 4):
Can't understand why QF needed this Irish joker. Aren't there capable people in Australia to run an AUSTRALIAN FLAG CARRIER?! Disgraceful
Quoting Dehowie (Reply 3):
A disgrace of a CEO

Actions of this nature would have been sanctioned by the full board, its not just "one against the rest".

The way I read it, all stakeholders have until Monday 8pm to sort this out. If they have any sense and proprietary, they will.
remember the t shirt "I own an airline"on the front - "qantas" on the back
 
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EK413
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RE:

Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:05 am

I'm left speechless...

EK413
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
weebie
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RE:

Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:05 am

Lets not forget the shareholders voted in favour of the pay rise and it would be related to KI's. Asian Labor rates are much lower compared to Australian workers which are the highest paid workers in the world and such a rise would make the airline uncompetitive. The Joyce payrise is just a smokescreen by the unions to get the government involved. This will all be over in a week. The unions clearly can't compete intellectually with the QF board
 
airlineaddict
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:07 am

Looks like the grounding takes effect immediately rather than on Monday:

"Pilots, licenced engineers and baggage, ground and catering staff are essential to Qantas operations and the lock-out will therefore make it necessary for all Qantas aircraft to be grounded. For precautionary reasons, this will take place immediately (as at 5pm AEDT, Saturday 29 October 2011)."

http://www.qantas.com.au/regions/dyn.../details?ArticleID=2011/oct11/5218
 
weebie
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:07 am

Maybe if they don't like it at QF perhaps the engineers would rather go work for Virgin or Tiger.

Qantas will rise again domestically. Business travellers in Australia simply refuse to fly with the other airlines.
 
TN486
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:14 am

And another one, reading between the lines of this one, I suspect QF believes this action will ensure resolution very quickly, and for all's sakes, lets hope it does. http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airlines/disruptions/global/en.
remember the t shirt "I own an airline"on the front - "qantas" on the back
 
Airvan00
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:14 am

Quoting BNE (Reply 8):
Sounds like Alan Joyce and his $5,000,000 pay cheque has been cleared by the bank.

He didn't get the $5M. What he could have got, what the company had to report,and what he actually got are all completely different figures. It was explained at the meeting by James Strong. It took 20min to explain, so I don't propose to try and reproduce it here. (The figure was a lot less than $5M,more like $2M in his hot little hand)
 
joelyboy911
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:15 am

Wow, Irish comment was way out of line.

As for the workers, well striking against your employer never made much sense to me. You (speaking generally) can keep your job, or if you don't like it, you can leave it. You don't bite the hand that feeds you. You should be grateful to have a job. You can complain about Alan Joyce's 2 million payrise, but if even if that figure was divided amongst every employee it would be a drop in the bucket. There is no money for the demands of the union. I hope the airline survives this.

If you (still talking generally) really hate your job's conditions/pay, there are people who would love to have your spot on the payroll. Some of those people currently reside in other countries and will take less than what you're getting upset about. That is why there is outsourcing. Outsourced workers are grateful for a job. Not upset because they can't afford every one of life's luxuries.

But it seems this battle is to be fought on the fields of public opinion - the customers sure won't be pleased at the unions for disrupting flights, but then again many will blame management. Who is the winner?

Well, I suspect it's Virgin...
Flown: NZ, NY, SJ, QF, UA, AC, EI, BE, TP, AF
 
ACCOperator
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:16 am

Wow, with CHOGM due to finish up in PER tomorrow, whats this likely to do for all those Heads of Government and Foreign Ministers looking to return home??

Government will have to intervene to prevent this causing further embarrassment I suspect.
 
mandala499
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:18 am

Interesting... 10 years after Ansett did its first fleetwide grounding, this happens.
September 2001, Ansett grounded, then resumed limited operations in October 2001... and then it all went away in March 2002.
Is this now the beginning of the end for Qantas as we know it?

It's now crunch time! I hope a workable long term compromise can be achieved.

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
Dehowie
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:18 am

Quoting weebie (Reply 11):

Asian Labor rates are much lower compared to Australian workers which are the highest paid workers in the world.

The unions clearly can't compete intellectually with the QF board


I think Weebie you may want to re assess that QF are FAR from the highest paid...and not by a little.
Stupid comment.

As for your second comment Joyce may have mis judged Australian opinion on over paid CEOs and the loss of and off shoring of Australian jobs..

[Edited 2011-10-29 00:20:16]
2EOS1DX,EF14.2.8LII,17TS,85/1.2,16-35L,24-70LII,24L,70-200F2.8LII,100-400,300/400/500/800L
 
TheCommodore
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:19 am

Quoting weebie (Reply 5):
Brilliant move in my opinion. It's crunch time now for the Unions.

Lets us just see what Julia is made of, and in the middle of CHOGM.

Crunch time for the unions you say ?

Perhaps for this Gov too  
“At first, they'll only dislike what you say, but the more correct you start sounding the more they'll dislike you.”
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:20 am

Quoting ACCOperator (Reply 20):
whats this likely to do for all those Heads of Government and Foreign Ministers looking to return home??

Very little I suspect, many of them will not have flown commercially.
 
gaystudpilot
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:20 am

Quoting weebie (Reply 13):
Qantas will rise again domestically. Business travellers in Australia simply refuse to fly with the other airlines.

Is there any relevant, credible market share data to back this up?

I'm not arguing your point, I'm just curious if there's data to support the statement and the source of the data.

Thanks.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:21 am

     

Good move. Nice to see some companies having the balls to stare down their unions.

This had to come to a head sooner of later. Even simply the continued threat of industrial action at Qantas was like death of a thousand cuts.

Once and for all the outstanding issues need to be cleared up. Either the unions agree and work with the company and its needs, or the company can go off an rebuilt from scratch.

Yes its a costly move, however not doing anything could be even costlier in the long run.

[Edited 2011-10-29 01:22:33]
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
thaigold
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:21 am

Even if this is a very drastic step by the QF board, it is probably the only option they had left. The unions have thanks to our completely enept government way too much power, and therefore the government was reluctant to interfere. Now it seem they have no choice but to solve this issue. Lets now see if the Labour dare cross their mates in the unions - who got them to power in the first place....

Hopefully it will be sorted out quickly...

Thaigold
 
qf002
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:29 am

Wonder if AJ has any Virgin stocks he's planning on selling off in a weeks time? JB must be celebrating tonight!

Great strategic move, but they've pissed me off because this is going to screw over some of my family's travel plans... But if this is what they needed to do to tip the balance regarding government intervention then so be it. Fair Work Australia will be given 100% access to QF's finances, internal communications etc and will make a judgement based on 100% third party fact through the tried and tested arbitration system. Whatever FWA judges is going to be based on fact and not on political and PR spin...
 
ZuluAlpha
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:30 am

I feel sorry for the guys in reservations and at the airport, having to deal with the the flood of angry passengers, having to deal with trying to find accommodation, seats on other airlines (Melbourne Cup on Tuesday). Wheather the decision is right or wrong by the the higher ups that realy don't have to face the travelling public.

It would be good if the higher ups would walk out to the airport and speak to the customers instead of the safe press conference but I am sure Qantas security would have something to say about that happening.
Flown on:_CRJ, CR7 D10 DHT DH8, DH2, DH3, DH4, EMB, E45, E75, E90, F28 J32 M80 SH6 320, 32B, 332, 333, 380, 717, 732, 733, 734, 73H, 743, 744, 752 762, 763, 772, 77W
 
qfflyer
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:32 am

Quoting Dehowie (Reply 22):
I think Weebie you may want to re assess that QF are FAR from the highest paid...and not by a little.
Stupid comment

Could you back this up please? I keep hearing this but so far no one has actually backed it up.
How many people here have received pay rises and had their demands for job security agreed to in this economic envirnoment?
Jobs for life, what a joke.

Quoting Airvan00 (Reply 18):
What he could have got, what the company had to report,and what he actually got are all completely different figures.

which is what everyone fails to mention when they complain....but this doesn't make headlines
I for one agree with the action taken. How can Qantas compete with other airlines with such a cost base? I just watched the news and was interested to see 2 Qantas workers doing a job one person could do.....
Do get me started on the LAMEs.....the stories I have heard about them make me shudder [and not from anyone related to Qantas] again I ask why did noone comment about the ISFD of the A380 engines following inspections done after QF32??
 
weebie
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:33 am

Australians are high earners but want the same benefits that Americans and Brits get which is cheap products and services. For many companies including QF the only viable option to survive is to offshore work into Asia.
 
Dehowie
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:37 am

Like to know what legal standing Joyce has grounded and locked out short haul pilots.
They are not even in a negotiation period yet.
Think he has buggered that one up.
Can here the lawyers thinking of the damages claims by hundreds of domestic pilots from here against Qantas and they are not even in dispute!!
Idiotic management at it's best..
2EOS1DX,EF14.2.8LII,17TS,85/1.2,16-35L,24-70LII,24L,70-200F2.8LII,100-400,300/400/500/800L
 
ZuluAlpha
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:38 am

I feel sorry for the reservation, and more importantly the airport staff, having to deal with this, dumped on them from a great hight with no warning whatsoever.

It will be chaos for the Next few days (Tuesday is Melbourne Cup). Massive struggle for the airport and reservation staff to try and find seats on other carriers, when they were already at a premium.
Flown on:_CRJ, CR7 D10 DHT DH8, DH2, DH3, DH4, EMB, E45, E75, E90, F28 J32 M80 SH6 320, 32B, 332, 333, 380, 717, 732, 733, 734, 73H, 743, 744, 752 762, 763, 772, 77W
 
LHRFlyer
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:39 am

At first thought it looks drastic, but if the disruption is limited to a few days at most and it expedites a settlement then it's probably for the better in the long run.
 
Airvan00
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:42 am

Quoting Dehowie (Reply 34):
Like to know what legal standing Joyce has grounded and locked out short haul pilots.

Only those in dispute are locked out.

Qantas today announced that, from 8pm AEDT on Monday 31 October 2011, it will lock out all employees who will be covered by the industrial agreements currently being negotiated with the Australian Licenced Engineers Union (ALAEA), the Transport Workers Union (TWU) and the Australian and International Pilots Union (AIPA).

all other employees are required at work and will be paid as normal.
 
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BoeingVista
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:00 am

Whoandawhatnow?!?

Has Alan Joyce lost his mind... The shareholders gave him an extra $2m yesterday and this is how he repays them?

Lost for words..
BV
 
MAH4546
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:00 am

Excellent news. I only wish more airlines had the courage to do this. Weakening - and working towards eliminating - unions is a major step towards creating a healthier airline industry worldwide.
a.
 
richcandy
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:04 am

Quoting ACCOperator (Reply 20):

Wow, with CHOGM due to finish up in PER tomorrow, whats this likely to do for all those Heads of Government and Foreign Ministers looking to return home??

Maybe Queenie will have to give some people a lift!
 
esdex
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:07 am

It's either the best or worst decision ever. Either way, your competition wins with the opportunity to show off their product to QF Frequent Flyers. SQ, CX, EK etc must be rubbing their hands with glee and mobilising their airframes!
 
NTLDaz
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:09 am

Quoting joelyboy911 (Reply 19):
As for the workers, well striking against your employer never made much sense to me.

If the workers never had a strike against their employers there would still be 8 year olds going down mine shafts. Seriosuly !
 
NTLDaz
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:15 am

Quoting thaigold (Reply 28):
Lets now see if the Labour dare cross their mates in the unions - who got them to power in the first place....

Ummmmm..... the voters got them to power. Minority or not that is the way it works. Great union bashing on this site. I'm constantly amazed by stuff some people say. Considering Australia is one of the wealthiest countries on Earth you'd think the occasional Aussie might be happy.
 
Quokka
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:16 am

Quoting joelyboy911 (Reply 19):
even if that figure was divided amongst every employee

I doubt that anyone ever suggested that Joyce's salary should be divided among the employees. Some do question the demand that employees tighten their belts while the CEO lets his belt out another couple of notches. The word hypocrisy has been bandied about. The cynical might even go so far as to suggest that the CEO should lead by example when calling on others to make sacrifices. For the good of the company of course.

Quoting thaigold (Reply 28):
The unions have thanks to our completely enept government way too much power

It was a Labor government that helped break the pilots in a previous dispute. Hawke actually provided tax payers' money to help Ansett finance its war against the pilots; provided military aircraft below cost; changed immigration regulations to allow the importation of foreign pilots; and facilitated the relaxation of airline operating standards. Not the sort of response that you would automatically expect from a former leader of the ACTU.

To the current situation, if the unions had too much power would not this have been settled months ago? The fact that it has dragged on for so long is a sign of weakness.


Interesting that no indication was given to the AGM that this is what the board was intending on doing. I doubt that the meeting would not been as "polite" as it was.
 
JMM99
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:20 am

there goes the SYD curfew. DJ putting on extra flights. Foreign Airlines to sell domestic seats ? RAAF to start selling domestic seats ?
 
JMM99
Posts: 142
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:22 am

Will JQ, Qantaslink & Jetconnect fly thru out the night now ?
 
fiscal
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:23 am

A bold and brave move, and I believe it is the only way to bring it to a head. The TWU are known for their thuggish behavior, and they need to be given a dose of reality. Qantas is a global product, and we have long since given up on protectionism. The other unions (quietly staying in the background) will come to an understanding because their current conditions are already good, and the don't want to give any excuse to import staff by continuing on.

Julia does not want to get involved, for obvious reasons, so it needs to be brought to a head, and this is one hell of a way of doing that....
 
bill142
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:24 am

Quoting thaigold (Reply 28):
Lets now see if the Labour dare cross their mates in the unions - who got them to power in the first place....

Revoking the access of Labor MPs to the Chairman's Lounge might have been a good way to provoke a response.
 
BMI727
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:40 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 27):
Good move. Nice to see some companies having the balls to stare down their unions.

This had to come to a head sooner of later. The continued even threat of industrial action at Qantas and was like death of a thousand cuts.

   In this case they decided it was better to take a stand and get their house in order. If you give a mouse a cookie...

Quoting mmedford (Reply 24):
No Good CEO don't always cost good money...there are MANY CEOs out there that work for a reasonable rate; eg: Warren Buffet.

That may be the reddest of red herrings.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
ZuluAlpha
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:40 am

Quoting JMM99 (Reply 46):
Will JQ, Qantaslink & Jetconnect fly thru out the night now

Or Put on extra flights ?

QF club and frequent flyer members still earn points, status credits on the top airfares. QF club and top tiered QF FF members still gain access to the QF lounges
Flown on:_CRJ, CR7 D10 DHT DH8, DH2, DH3, DH4, EMB, E45, E75, E90, F28 J32 M80 SH6 320, 32B, 332, 333, 380, 717, 732, 733, 734, 73H, 743, 744, 752 762, 763, 772, 77W
 
b767erWinglets
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:41 am

As an ex-Ansett employee over 10 years ago.........This is Ansett Mark 2. Goodbye Qantas......management and unions too greedy......another Ozzie icon gone....
 
ben175
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:42 am

If this gets Alan Joyce catapulted out of the company, I'm all for it. QF is losing the plot! Virgin management will be laughing themselves to sleep.
 
cchan
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:51 am

My mum is at the transit area in MEL waiting for QF29 to HKG/LHR tonight (29/10). Interestingly, this flight has not been cancelled according to the flight status page on the QF website. The MEL airport website earlier listed this flight as cancelled, but removed the "cancelled" status not long ago. Is this flight still going to take off?

Also of interest is QF21 SYD-NRT tonight has been delayed for 12 hours rather than get cancelled altogether.
 
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BoeingVista
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:55 am

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 39):
Excellent news. I only wish more airlines had the courage to do this. Weakening - and working towards eliminating - unions is a major step towards creating a healthier airline industry worldwide.

Then we should get rid of the regulatory bodies to further boost profits, regulation kills business after all.

But seriously a country as large and as isolated as Australia cannot be held to ransom by a private company, any company, espcialy one that deals with transport. Time for us Australians to regain control of our national airline, Qantas needs to be renationalised.

This one company could drive the whole country into recession and put thousdands of unrelated jobs at risk, stupid stupid stupid action Mr Joyce.
BV
 
JMM99
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:59 am

Will JQ, Qantaslink & Jetconnect fly thru out the night now ?
 
joelyboy911
Posts: 119
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:07 am

Quoting NTLDaz (Reply 42):
If the workers never had a strike against their employers there would still be 8 year olds going down mine shafts. Seriosuly !

"Seriosuly" that is ridiculous. The labour movement has improved workers rights and conditions, I agree, but your statement is blatantly overblown and fearmongering.

All I'm saying is that this has gotten well out of hand, and the employer has been driven to this because the Unions, who are laden with self-serving executives and leaders, want more power. They are more interested in gaining power for themselves than genuinely helping their members, and if they bankrupt Qantas, and it is forced to close or make workers redundant, will they care then that the members have no jobs?

It's a free market world, and you could argue that the workers in this case need Qantas more than Qantas needs them. It's a sad fact that there are people in other (you could say, less Lucky) countries who would be delighted to work for Qantas at a significantly lower rate. Some ethical experts would argue that a company would be doing a greater social good for the world by employing these people, and lifting them out of the true poverty they're experiencing.

All in all, I hope they reach a compromise. I'm not an Australian, but I know how precious the airline is. It's a symbol of Australia, and one of the worlds great airlines. It wouldn't quite be the same without that Aussie flavour that it's employees bring. However I fear that notwithstanding a major change, this is a story that is doomed to repeat.
Flown: NZ, NY, SJ, QF, UA, AC, EI, BE, TP, AF

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