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Zkpilot
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:33 am

Quoting Dehowie (Reply 3):
What a disgrace of a CEO.
Everyone from one end of the company to the other is in the wrong but it's ok to get a 5 million dollar payrise.
The best thing from Qantas would be for Joyce to be sacked immediately.
Amazing every employee in the company must be wrong and he is right..lol.
What a disgrace of a management team.
With his plan of off shoring jobs and self managed multiple million dollar payrises to management it's apparent he is on a mission to destroy what was one of the worlds great airlines.
A disgrace of a CEO


   well said.
Joyce needs to GO... NOW!!
a former successful airline CEO who knows how to run a company properly and who has run bigger Australian companies than Qantas is now available having retired from Commonwealth Bank recently (with it achieving record profits, good customer satisfaction and an engaged workforce)... That is sir Ralph Norris (who happens to be a 777 fan BTW).
64 types. 44 countries. 24 airlines.
 
FlyboyOz
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:35 am

I'm shocked and speechless after i have heard from the news... what's gonna hell on with Qantas!!! Is Joyce out of his mind??

Joyce wasn't happy with his salary. He mentioned that he worked for jetstar and earned more than Qantas!!

[Edited 2011-10-29 02:36:29]
The Spirit of AustraliAN - Longreach
 
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NZ107
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:38 am

Quoting mmedford (Reply 24):
there are MANY CEOs out there that work for a reasonable rate; eg: Warren Buffet.

LOL he owns the business and has tonnes of shares - he doesn't even need a CEO salary!  
Quoting Airvan00 (Reply 37):

Only those in dispute are locked out.

They're locked out but those who are left face the public which is completely unfair on them. And the passengers won't give a damn about who they abuse. I've heard that the AFP are around the SYD customer service counters trying to calm things down.
It's all about the destination AND the journey.
 
crdaus
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:39 am

Alan Joyce's approach reminds me of the lockout that Rupert Murdoch did to UK print unions over their demands many years ago. He locked out and eventually sacked hordes of newspaper employees while simultaneously activating "Fortress Wapping" - a newish automated printing press. Murdoch won and the unions lost.

Joyce is doing the equivalent. Unless the unions cave in he will close Qantas permanently and Jetstar - his "fortress Wapping" - will become the main brand. Displaced Qantas employees at best will be offered the conditions of Jetstar and take it or leave it. Qantas as a corporation will not collapse, just the Qantas brand as a worst case.

Along the way the incompetent Australian Government will further damage itself as its "Fair Work Australia" is exposed as the union dominated front that it is.
 
melpax
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:41 am

Interesting times. 2 of the biggest sporting events in Australia are being held in Melbourne next week, The Melbourne Cup on Tuesday & Oaks Day on Thursday. Thousands would be having to rethink their plans for cup week at the moment. Not to mention the huge disruption to business travel also.

Fair Work Australia is holding a hearing at 10PM tonight in Melbourne to try to resolve things. The pilots union has also said AJ has 'Gone Mad'...

http://www.theage.com.au/
Essendon - Whatever it takes......
 
Quokka
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:44 am

Quoting richcandy (Reply 40):
Quoting ACCOperator (Reply 20):
Wow, with CHOGM due to finish up in PER tomorrow, whats this likely to do for all those Heads of Government and Foreign Ministers looking to return home??
Maybe Queenie will have to give some people a lift!

Too late, she has already left town. Meanwhile seventeen delegations are stranded as they were booked on Qantas flights. Foreign Affairs is trying to sort out alternative arrangements. Irony is that the Foreign Minister, Kevin Rudd, is stuck in Perth for the same reason.
 
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BoeingVista
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:44 am

17 Heads of state reportedly due to fly Qantas from CHOGM in Perth, too funny! Joyce is also holding the commonweath heads of government hostage.

The Queen had the good sense to fly BA.

[Edited 2011-10-29 02:45:04]
BV
 
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mariner
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:45 am

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 57):
Joyce needs to GO... NOW!!

Not going to happen.

At the AGM yesterday the shareholders - the owners of the airline - gave him and the Board effective carte blanche to do what they believe is necessary.

mariner

[Edited 2011-10-29 02:47:38]
aeternum nauta
 
liffy1a
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:46 am

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 4):
Can't understand why QF needed this Irish joker

Why include 'Irish' in that sentance? I don't see the relevance.
 
EDICHC
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:51 am

Quoting joelyboy911 (Reply 56):
"Seriosuly" that is ridiculous. The labour movement has improved workers rights and conditions, I agree, but your statement is blatantly overblown and fearmongering.

Until the rise of the trade union movement during the latter part of the Industrial Revolution, this was exactly what was happening in workplaces. While you may consider it overblown, remember just about every single piece of health and safety in the workplace legislation has the trade unions directly or indirectly associated with it. Same goes for employee protection legislation. If it were not for unions your boss could fire you on a whim. Be careful of what you wish for.
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BoeingVista
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:53 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 64):
At the AGM yesterday the shareholders - the owners of the airline - gave him and the Board effective carte blanche to do what they believe is necessary.

He didn't tell them that he planned to shut the thing down their investment the next day though did he?

Quoting LIFFY1A (Reply 65):
Why include 'Irish' in that sentance? I don't see the relevance.

Well, he is Irish isn't he? I don't see that as in any way abusive; if the poster said English or Australian would you still be complaining?
BV
 
JMM99
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:53 am

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 54):
regain control of our national airline, Qantas needs to be renationalised.

it's just another airline, not our national airline & it's going broke fast thanks to the stupid unions. Nationalising it would just make it worse with the taxpayers picking up the tab.

Why do people expect more pay ? They are lucky to have a job at all. Most people in private enterprise are taking effective pay cuts, in real terms, ie no pay rises, longer hours for no more salary.

Am sure you could get 10,000 or more suitably qualified U.S. pilots tomorrow, just like after the 1989 pilots dispute.
 
Eagleboy
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:59 am

Quoting anstar (Reply 18):
One of the hardest things for Virgin Australia to get people to switch would be to get them onboard to see the product - QF are just handing them this opportunity.
Quoting anstar (Reply 8):
.... now grounding your whole fleet is pretty bleak and will force pax onto other carriers -
Quoting NTLDaz (Reply 16):
Yes very damaging to the brand but who is causing the damage ?

I am not too familiar with this stand-off but standing down the entire fleet seems like a business gamble.
Look at BA, they keep flying for months during a dispute.

I assume the QF board think this hardline approach will cower the unions, this could have the opposite effect.

And even if QF 'win' what long term damage will have been done to the brand and future employee-company relations?
 
JMM99
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:02 am

Instead of a parking Qantaslink & Jetstar & Jetconnect aircraft, back of clock, if they flew thru the night, get rid of SYD curfew, they could surely make up a reasonable percentage of flights.

Who wants to land in SYD at 0300 ? Anyone, who's only other option is to drive from BNE or MEL.
 
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BoeingVista
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:03 am

Quoting JMM99 (Reply 68):
it's just another airline, not our national airline & it's going broke fast thanks to the stupid unions. Nationalising it would just make it worse with the taxpayers picking up the tab.

No, it is part of the national infrastructure like it or no. Also it is not going broke, it made $453m last year.

Quoting JMM99 (Reply 68):
Why do people expect more pay ? They are lucky to have a job at all. Most people in private enterprise are taking effective pay cuts, in real terms, ie no pay rises, longer hours for no more salary.

Rubbish, Australian unemployment is very low at 5.2% Most of my friends are employed in the private sector and are getting pay rises this year. People expect more pay because their costs are going up, Inflation is going up; ordinary working families need extra money to live just as much as the executives.
BV
 
qfflyer
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:03 am

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 57):
a former successful airline CEO who knows how to run a company properly and who has run bigger Australian companies than Qantas is now available having retired from Commonwealth Bank recently (with it achieving record profits, good customer satisfaction and an engaged workforce)... That is sir Ralph Norris (who happens to be a 777 fan BTW).

...and how much did he get paid while at the CBA??? So complain about the current wages for CEO and suggest someone else who got paid more in previous position?
I suggest you might like to do some reading. You quoted and agreed with someone who can't read.
In fact the QF CEO did not recieve a $5M payrise, his pay is now AT $5M, increased from $2.9M. The report makes interesting reading http://www.qantas.com.au/infodetail/...overnance/ExecRemuneration2011.pdf
but then I guess why worry about facts....
 
ZKSUJ
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:03 am

Bit of a strange raction by the board. All the pilots did for industrial action was wear a red tie, no cap and a specialised PA announcement. Shutting down an airline for that (along with the other unions) is a very interesting move...
 
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mariner
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:04 am

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 67):
He didn't tell them that he planned to shut the thing down their investment the next day though did he?

He didn't need to. The shareholders gave him and the Board carte blanche - a free hand - to what they believed was necessary.

He had told them that if this was not brought to a head it would be the end of Qantas.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
captainmeeerkat
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:05 am

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 4):
Can't understand why QF needed this Irish joker. Aren't there capable people in Australia to run an AUSTRALIAN FLAG CARRIER?! Disgraceful.

Could you do a better job? Perhaps look into Australian history to see how the Irish (and other NON AUSTRALIAN FLAG bearers) have contributed to the building of Australia.

Quoting TN486 (Reply 9):
Actions of this nature would have been sanctioned by the full board, its not just "one against the rest".

Exactly, armchair CEOs here don't seem to realise that

Quoting qf002 (Reply 29):
Great strategic move, but they've pissed me off because this is going to screw over some of my family's travel plans... But if this is what they needed to do to tip the balance regarding government intervention then so be it

I think you sum it up very well. It causes nothing but disruptin but it is a necessary evil

DId anyone think that Joyce got his payrise because it was all planned that he would become the most hated man in Australia this weekend?

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 38):
Has Alan Joyce lost his mind... The shareholders gave him an extra $2m yesterday and this is how he repays them?

Yes, him and the entire board, not to mention all the shareholders...pffff

Quoting joelyboy911 (Reply 56):
Joyce needs to GO... NOW!!
a former successful airline CEO who knows how to run a company properly and who has run bigger Australian companies than Qantas is now available having retired from Commonwealth Bank recently (with it achieving record profits, good customer satisfaction and an engaged workforce)... That is sir Ralph Norris (who happens to be a 777 fan BTW).

I am a successful CEO of a company, love B777, A330, B747, TU204, YAK42...should I apply also?

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 67):
He didn't tell them that he planned to shut the thing down their investment the next day though did he?

Were you there?

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 67):
Well, he is Irish isn't he? I don't see that as in any way abusive; if the poster said English or Australian would you still be complaining?

I won't insult Australian kangaroos if someone else doesn't insult Irish leprechauns. Bland, broad statements like Springbok747's are derogratory and should be called out for criticism
my luggage is better travelled than me!
 
JMM99
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:06 am

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 71):
Quoting JMM99 (Reply 68):
it's just another airline, not our national airline & it's going broke fast thanks to the stupid unions. Nationalising it would just make it worse with the taxpayers picking up the tab.

No, it is part of the national infrastructure like it or no. Also it is not going broke, it made $453m last year.

Who cares about Qantas, certainly not the public. They've always been overpaid. QF INT broke & domestics ROI is awful.

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 71):
Quoting JMM99 (Reply 68):
Why do people expect more pay ? They are lucky to have a job at all. Most people in private enterprise are taking effective pay cuts, in real terms, ie no pay rises, longer hours for no more salary.

Rubbish, Australian unemployment is very low at 5.2% Most of my friends are employed in the private sector and are getting pay rises this year. People expect more pay because their costs are going up, Inflation is going up; ordinary working families need extra money to live just as much as the executives.

Retail closures are huge. Bet there will be some retil travel agencies closing in next few weeks, as owners say why bother continuing.
 
bennett123
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:06 am

I do find references to him being Irish, or a foreigner curious.

My understanding is that the "true" Australians are the Aborigines, and that there are not many of them.
 
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BoeingVista
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:12 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 74):
He had told them that if this was not brought to a head it would be the end of Qantas.

mariner

So in order to save the airline he is going to cut its major revenue stream whilst still incurring wage costs and tarnish the brand maybe for ever?

To paraphrase, It became necessary to destroy the airline in order to save it.
BV
 
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mariner
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:14 am

Quoting captainMeeerkat (Reply 75):
Could you do a better job? Perhaps look into Australian history to see how the Irish (and other NON AUSTRALIAN FLAG bearers) have contributed to the building of Australia.

And not to forget that the CEO of Virgin Australia is also a migrant.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
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RWA380
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:16 am

Will other carriers, fly extra segments to cover say, SYD-LAX? Can UA, DL and more add any lift? Not like anyone has extra wide bodies just laying around. But if they could do it, it could be great PR for those that "save the day"
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
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captainmeeerkat
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:16 am

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 78):
So in order to save the airline he is going to cut its major revenue stream whilst still incurring wage costs and tarnish the brand maybe for ever?

To paraphrase, It became necessary to destroy the airline in order to save it.

Could you give us a better method to save Qantas? It is fine having a 'major revenue stream' but that is useless to you if there is too much fat on the company. If every $1.00 made costs you $1.10 to make, something has to give
my luggage is better travelled than me!
 
kl911
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:16 am

Unions should really be forbidden, see how much damage they do to airline and employees. Employees signed a contract so should stick to it.
 
captainmeeerkat
Posts: 386
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:18 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 79):
And not to forget that the CEO of Virgin Australia is also a migrant.

Oh dear! Given the sentiment here ( I wont lower myself to call it racism   ), he should be fired too.

I wonder if the Union leader/s was a migrant, would there be the same outcry?
my luggage is better travelled than me!
 
ZKSUJ
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:19 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 80):
Will other carriers, fly extra segments to cover say, SYD-LAX?

SYD-LAX-SYD will be using an NZ 744 AFAIK while the Virgin 777s cover domestic.

[Edited 2011-10-29 03:22:37]
 
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Plane Holland
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:19 am

A 2nd Sabena diaster waiting to happen?
 
timb777
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:22 am

Quoting Plane Holland (Reply 85):

A second Ansett! cf 2001/2
 
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BoeingVista
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:24 am

Quoting captainMeeerkat (Reply 81):
If every $1.00 made costs you $1.10 to make, something has to give

Yeah, but it doesn't

Recent QF management has mismanaged its route structure a lot of the problems Qantas faces are of its own making, BUT there are issues of carriers with different cost bases, and open skies are not really good for western airlines that have to pay taxes and depreciate aircraft over a long time, screwing the workers is not going to help this strucural problem they needed to engage with the government.
BV
 
joelyboy911
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:24 am

Quoting EDICHC (Reply 66):
Until the rise of the trade union movement during the latter part of the Industrial Revolution, this was exactly what was happening in workplaces. While you may consider it overblown, remember just about every single piece of health and safety in the workplace legislation has the trade unions directly or indirectly associated with it. Same goes for employee protection legislation. If it were not for unions your boss could fire you on a whim. Be careful of what you wish for.

The overblown bit was that we'd still have kids down the mine if nobody ever went on strike. Economic and Social development was taking place before the Union movement began, and it will continue with or without them. Which is irrelevant to this debate. My position is that striking is akin to biting the hand that feeds you.

Prolonged, and protracted industrial actions do not benefit anybody. The purpose of a strike is to tell the employer that the union will act on its threats. Well the TWU has proved that to Qantas. They haven't been happy with Qantas' response, so they did it again, and issued more threats. The more they strike, they only really dilute their bargaining power, as it just hurts company profits and makes head office even less able to pay them. The point is proved. Joyce (though it is a tad ridiculous to blame just him - given he has the backing of all the directors and shareholders) has to fight back somehow.

This is just a battle now, a game of survivor, to see which happens first: Qantas' collapse, or the Union's capitulation. That just sucks for everyone that's invested in Qantas - shareholders and employees alike.

But when you take a job, you are performing an economic activity. You have a supply of labour and skills, for which there is a demand. At the moment, there is more supply available to Qantas, than they have demand for it. Qantas workers can't expect a higher price for their labour and skills, because it just isn't scarce enough. I know these are people with families and children to support, but its not like they are destitute. They are in work. That's a damn sight better than plenty of other people.
Flown: NZ, NY, SJ, QF, UA, AC, EI, BE, TP, AF
 
captainmeeerkat
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:26 am

Qantas won't collapse! This is a pre-planned strategy that will see Qantas emerge out the other side without the overbearing costs.

Anyone who thinks the the Board of Directors and major shareholders didn't know about this is not living in the realities of business.

They would rather lost 50m a day for a week, than continued losses of Xm a year..short term pain for long term gain.
my luggage is better travelled than me!
 
cuban8
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:26 am

Time for EK to deploy a few A380's to MEL & SYD?? 
When business goes to hell, you get rid of three things. Your private jet, your yacht and your mistress..........and most importantly in that order.
~ Russian Billionaire ~
 
captainmeeerkat
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:30 am

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 87):
with different cost bases

You hit the nail here! In order to survive, cost base has to come down. We seen that with the plans Qantas announced earlier this year. Doesn't matter if your network is plagued with problems or anything else...no point is restructuring your business logistically to have it fail still economically.
my luggage is better travelled than me!
 
EDICHC
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:31 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 79):
And not to forget that the CEO of Virgin Australia is also a migrant.

As is the Australian Prime Minister, born in Wales if I am not mistaken.
A300/319/320/346 ATR72 B722/732/3/4/5/6/8/742/4/752/762/3/772/3 BAC111 BAe146 C172 DHC1/6/8 HS121 MD80 PA28
 
koruman
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:31 am

PM Julia Gillard has gone three minutes into a news conference before bringing up the right wing opposition's Work Choices policy.

The opposition is blindly backing Qantas management. But the government's immediate evocation of Work Choices makes it fairly clear that its allegiances are with the Qantas staff who are to be locked out.

I suspect that Fair Work Australia will now terminate the Qantas management lock-out of staff. And given that the only industrial action which was due to take place was for the pilots to wear red ties and make announcements, that will mean that all Joyce and the management will have achieved is trashing their own brand value and aligning the government with their employees. And driving their own customers towards Virgin.
 
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BoeingVista
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:33 am

Quoting koruman (Reply 93):
PM Julia Gillard has gone three minutes into a news conference before bringing up the right wing opposition's Work Choices policy.

I'm watching it, she was asked a question about it.
BV
 
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NZ107
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:35 am

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 87):
BUT there are issues of carriers with different cost bases

Funny that's brought up - Jetconnect's by far the poorer lot here and we see them continuing to work. Ditto with Jetstar.

Quoting koruman (Reply 93):
its allegiances are with the Qantas staff who are to be locked out.

In the end, they're the ones who the govt relies on to get back into power; plus being Labor - wasn't the party (and similar parties around the world) based and formed on the workers' rights etc etc?
It's all about the destination AND the journey.
 
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mariner
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:37 am

Quoting koruman (Reply 93):
I suspect that Fair Work Australia will now terminate the Qantas management lock-out of staff. And given that the only industrial action which was due to take place was for the pilots to wear red ties and make announcements, that will mean that all Joyce and the management will have achieved is trashing their own brand value and aligning the government with their employees. And driving their own customers towards Virgin.

And let's just remind ourselves of where we were a day ago - before Mr. Joyce acted:

http://www.news.com.au/travel/news/q...today/story-e6frfq80-1226178947905

"Qantas strikes to hit 10,000 passengers today"

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
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BoeingVista
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:40 am

Quoting captainMeeerkat (Reply 91):
You hit the nail here! In order to survive, cost base has to come down.

Ok, lets look at that; so to get down to Emirates cost base QF need to pay 50% wages and no tax, is this ever going to be possible in Australia? So offshore the lot.

On the other hand Virgin seem to be expanding in Australia and raising wages, hummmm.
BV
 
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RWA380
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:41 am

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 84):

Is this NZ operating their own route authority, or operating for QF? Either way glad to see NZ back on the route however brief it may be. Where did NZ have a 744 hiding? I thought they were strapped for widebodies. Surely on NZ 744 can't carry the loads QF does with 3+ flights a day. Also what about the ever popular DFW flight?
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vikinga346
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Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:45 pm

RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:43 am

So how will this grounding affect the JSA BA/QF between UK and AUS? Other than BA picking up some QF pax, will BA be able to put any extra freq's on this route to cover QF?
...you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you shall return
 
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NZ107
Posts: 4946
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 6:51 pm

RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:46 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 98):
Is this NZ operating their own route authority, or operating for QF?

Neither, it'd be like a lease, operating on behalf of VA.
It's all about the destination AND the journey.
 
ZKSUJ
Posts: 6875
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 5:15 pm

RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:46 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 98):

No my friend. NZ are covering for Virgin Australia so Virgin can use their aircraft internally. The aircraft is being chartered or leased AFAIK. The QF passengers are pretty much left to their own. NZ have a spare 744 on the ground in AKL which would probably be deployed for it. The 744s have not been the best utilised lately

This will only be the case if Fair work Aus don't step in and quash the lock out

[Edited 2011-10-29 03:49:00]
 
qf002
Posts: 3602
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:14 am

RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:47 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 98):
Is this NZ operating their own route authority, or operating for QF? Either way glad to see NZ back on the route however brief it may be. Where did NZ have a 744 hiding? I thought they were strapped for widebodies. Surely on NZ 744 can't carry the loads QF does with 3+ flights a day. Also what about the ever popular DFW flight?

Probably VA chartering the NZ planes like they have when they've had fleet issues in the past. They're shilling out in AKL I think, and in CHC at the moment...

NZ has plenty of WB capacity, just constrained in size/efficiency (ie fully utilising 777s at the cost of letting the 744s sit around).
 
captainmeeerkat
Posts: 386
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2010 7:13 am

RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:50 am

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 97):
Ok, lets look at that; so to get down to Emirates cost base QF need to pay 50% wages and no tax, is this ever going to be possible in Australia? So offshore the lot.

EK are able to take loss, this is not the place to discuss them. And that is not their only competition.

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 97):
On the other hand Virgin seem to be expanding in Australia and raising wages, hummmm.
BV

And what? We are not talking about Virgin! Yes, they made a loss this year but that is on top of healthy profits from before!
my luggage is better travelled than me!
 
coolfish1103
Posts: 220
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:36 am

RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:53 am

It's time for the unions in Australia to pay for the prices.

Good move by Joyce. Hopefully jetstar will take over the operations should Qantas fail in the long run due to this.
 
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BoeingVista
Posts: 2042
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:54 am

RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:56 am

Quoting captainMeeerkat (Reply 105):
And what? We are not talking about Virgin! Yes, they made a loss this year but that is on top of healthy profits from before!

We are talking about the airline business in Australia and with Virgin, competent management are able to run an airline in Australia and keep staff, passengers and shareholders happy.
BV
 
art
Posts: 3046
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:46 am

RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:00 am

I know nothing of ths dispute but I think

- it would have been kinder to one's customers to give them longer notice of one's intention to withdraw the service they had paid for so they could make other arrangements

- if pay levels would make the business unviable, insisting on such levels is a good way of making yourself unemployed in the future

- whether the airline pays $5 million dollars a year to the CEO or the CEO $5 million dollars a year to the airline makes no significant difference to the viability of the business

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